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VS Wins All LHR Slots For Short-Haul Ops  
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

A UK regulatory board awarded VS all LHR landing slots that were vacated by the merger of BMI and BA.

Multiple news sources:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-atlan...-scotland-flights-start-march-2013

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...n-atlantic-heathrow-slots/1712857/

Looks like things are about to get mighty interesting.

[Edited 2012-11-18 17:14:29]


Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting AA94 (Thread starter):
Looks like things are about to get mighty interesting.

What about the current BA short haul slots, if any? This does sound a bit surprising. For VS, what is considered "short-haul" though?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
What about the current BA short haul slots, if any? This does sound a bit surprising. For VS, what is considered "short-haul" though?

VS is planning to launch intra-UK flights in 2013, and these slots were a major step in finalizing that plan.

Previously, VS announced the start of LHR-MAN service to begin 31MAR13. According to news outlets, they are also planning to launch service to Aberdeen and Edinburgh. A timetable is expected to come forward in the next few days.

All short-haul ops will be flown by leased A319 aircraft.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Great news for VS and for their long-haul connections =)

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

I know that they missed out on the Russia slots, but did they end up applying for Egypt or Saudi Arabia in the end?

(did any airline apply for those authorities?)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 2):

I assume these a319s will be in VS colors?


User currently offlinevincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Are there conditions attached to this deal for VS? Such as maintaining those slots for domestic routes rather than switching to other international routes.

User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3304 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Who will actually operate the short haul flights? VS flying their own metal, or will they contract out the flying?

User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
I assume these a319s will be in VS colors?

That is the impression I get. I'm not completely sure on that, though.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 6):
Are there conditions attached to this deal for VS? Such as maintaining those slots for domestic routes rather than switching to other international routes.

I don't know for sure. I don't believe there are strings attached, but again, I am not sure.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
Who will actually operate the short haul flights? VS flying their own metal, or will they contract out the flying?

Virgin Atlantic operates the flights. VS flying leased A319s. Lessor undetermined as of yet.

To all: We will be hearing more details tomorrow I am told. VS has only really sketched out their plans as of yet, but now that they have slots available to them I believe we will be hearing more on this topic come tomorrow. Unfortunately, specific information has been generally spotty.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinemel From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1100 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3788 times:

wonder where they will gate these A319 flights @ LHR?


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineAndy33 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

A good question. It will probably have to be T1 for now as T3 and T4 are not equipped to handle Domestic flights (no way of segregating arrivals so they bypass Immigration and Customs). In 2013-14 the first phase of new T2 will open and T1 will close. At this point your guess is as good as mine as there might have been time to modify an existing terminal.
It's not a huge problem to connect between T1 and T3 - walkable landside and transfer buses airside.


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5304 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 2):

All short-haul ops will be flown by leased A319 aircraft.

I believe it will end up being a A319/A320 mix.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):
I know that they missed out on the Russia slots, but did they end up applying for Egypt or Saudi Arabia in the end?

They applied for all the available slots - so that included Riyadh, Nice and Cairo.

Quoting mel (Reply 9):
wonder where they will gate these A319 flights @ LHR?

Presumably T1 as that is where bmi operated from and these slots relate to that.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3659 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Is there a link to any official announcement on this ?

VS don't mention it on their website, nor does the CAA


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5304 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 12):
Is there a link to any official announcement on this ?

VS don't mention it on their website, nor does the CAA

There is a quote from wridgeway here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-20384801

And its being reported in most online press now.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1884 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3787 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
Who will actually operate the short haul flights?

No news on that so far....assume 2-3 A319 to start with?

Quoting vincewy (Reply 6):
Are there conditions attached to this deal for VS?

I believe they have to serve the designated airports for 2-3 years. I have a memory of reading this when the issue first came up, but can't find the reference since.


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting vincewy (Reply 6):
Are there conditions attached to this deal for VS? Such as maintaining those slots for domestic routes rather than switching to other international routes.

Yes. They can eventually use the slots for other short-haul European services but they can't just convert them to long-haul.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):

Quoting AA94 (Reply 2):

I assume these a319s will be in VS colors?

I believe these birds will come from their American off shoot VX considering they have cancelled 20 of the 30 frames on order...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineCometOrbit From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 12):
Is there a link to any official announcement on this ?
VS don't mention it on their website, nor does the CAA

From the Virgin Group web site:
http://www.virgin.com/travel/news/vi...ic-wins-uk-short-haul-flying-slots


User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

::::Looking into the very near future:::::::

Virgin launch domestic flights with a lot of razzmatazz - along with Sir Richard pictured with scantily clad actress/model/celebrity

Initial press conference Virgin Good - BA the spawn of the devil evil evil evil evil - brings competitiveness to UK domestic market blah blah blah, BA evil devil evil etc

Price War


Sir Richard, then in some highbrow paper, complaining that BA is abusing its position and forcing uneconomical prices on domestic market - But despite losing £££ we will stay in the fight and be the true consumer champion - BA Evil

Virgin Quietly drops domestic services



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 10):
In 2013-14 the first phase of new T2 will open and T1 will close. At this point your guess is as good as mine as there might have been time to modify an existing terminal.

Given that we have also seen VS express a strong interest in moving to the new T2 and multiple mentions of VS joining Star (whose LHR base will be in T2), it appears that this will pan out as: VS joins Star, VS moves to the new T2, domestic gates are provided at the new T2 for simple connections on Star airlines to/from MAN, ABZ, EDI.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
I assume these a319s will be in VS colors?

For the reasons stated by Dano1977 there is no way SRB will not make a splash with this, assuming it really does come to fruition and so we are sure to see the aircraft in full VS livery and i think they will look grand.

Interesting times


User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting mel (Reply 9):
wonder where they will gate these A319 flights @ LHR?
Quoting Andy33 (Reply 10):
It will probably have to be T1 for now
Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
Presumably T1 as that is where bmi operated from and these slots relate to that.

They will operate out of T3.

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 18):
Virgin Quietly drops domestic services

I hope so


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

They've already mocked up their livery on an A320:

facebook.com/virginatlantic

"G-VMAN"

[Edited 2012-11-19 02:25:27]

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5304 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 18):
Virgin Quietly drops domestic services

Hardly - They are not just getting domestic pax - the main point is to get pax onto their long haul flights ex LHR.

Quoting 747438 (Reply 21):
They will operate out of T3.

How? There is no domestic ability at T3.... MAN is already announced as being out of T1.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

LHR-MAN flights operate out of T1, and arrive into MAN T3.

http://virginatlantic.custhelp.com/a...MTM1MzMyMTk1NS9zaWQvVlBTVmVGYmw%3D



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 23):

It was a tongue in cheek reply.

But you didn't disagree with the rest of it, so I will assume it will follow the same Virgin/Sir Richard script for launching a new service.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 23):
Quoting 747438 (Reply 21):
They will operate out of T3.

How? There is no domestic ability at T3...

Read my profile  

I think I know what I'm on about


User currently offlinevisualapproach From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

You can just about see the mood lighting and live Sky TV through one of those windows.

User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 18):
::::Looking into the very near future


Perfectly described Dano

Already Steve Ridgeway has stated "We have fought hard for the right to fly short-haul and take a strong challenge to British Airways within these shores"

Yawn, yawn big, bad old BA.

And also...within these shores? Surely as a man clued up on aviation he means within the UK FIR?

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 3):
Great news for VS and for their long-haul connections =)


Waiting in anticipation for the SNP view on this....great, a few jobs and some shiny VS metal in our skies....whoops, does that mean more of our flying folk being syphoned off on their global journeys via the Sassinak evil empire?



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineMACDADDY From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Looks like the aircraft will be coming from Avion Express (LY registered carrier). They have A320 and A319 and operate on wet lease basis, so it all makes sense, but according to the advert they are looking to hire UK based crews. Good luck with them!

Source : Flight International advert for crew 20-28 NOV edition

MAC



www.plane-sight-images.photoshelter.com
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Looking forward to seeing A319/A320's in VS colours!

Quoting 747438 (Reply 21):

Why do you hope they stop services? Competition is a good thing....



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineskidmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

When Virgin eventually pull off of these domestic services, what happens to the slots ? Would VS keep them or would they returned to BA / allocated to someone else ?


DUCK !
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

Quoting shankly (Reply 28):

To be fair, it's the standard virgin play book.

Anybody going to open a book on which actress/model/celeb is going to be scantily dressed for the photo oppertunity?



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting 747438 (Reply 21):
They will operate out of T3
Quoting 747438 (Reply 26):
I think I know what I'm on about

I guess time will tell....... 
Quoting 747438 (Reply 21):
Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 18):
Virgin Quietly drops domestic services

I hope so

Why on earth would you hope for something like that? Even if you arent a fan of VS, choice is a good thing. It always amazes me how the airline industry is about the only one where people (i.e. A.netters) wish for less competition. If you buy a BMW do you hope Audi, Mercedes and Jaguar stop offering competing models? What about TV's? Do you buy A 46' Samsung in the hope that Sony, LG, and the rest stop operating?

There will be more information on the short haul operation in the next few days......



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineflywrite From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4491 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I wonder if they're considering introducing any domestic flights into Gatwick? Given that BA is cancelling all LGW-MAN flights soon, it'd be a nice steal for Virgin, and the chance to connect passengers from the north into their LGW long haul flights.

User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Quoting flywrite (Reply 34):
I wonder if they're considering introducing any domestic flights into Gatwick? Given that BA is cancelling all LGW-MAN flights soon, it'd be a nice steal for Virgin, and the chance to connect passengers from the north into their LGW long haul flights.

Doubt it, only the first wave would feed long haul, unlike LHR where they have mulitple flights out per day spread across til evening.


User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting flywrite (Reply 34):

Don't think LGW domestics Ops is a go for Virgin. Especially on price sensitive bucket and spade flights.

Anyway, they got LHR slots.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7700 posts, RR: 17
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting vincewy (Reply 6):
Are there conditions attached to this deal for VS? Such as maintaining those slots for domestic routes rather than switching to other international routes.

The actual wording is that the slots applied for must be used on the designated routes for "six (6) consecutive IATA Seasons". So that means from the start of Siummer Season 2013 until the start of Summer Season 2016. From then on the successful applicant has the standard "grasndfather" rights to the slots. So however successful or unsuccessful the new services prove to be the incentive to operate the new services until the start of Summer 2016 is huge.

Source: Clause 1.3.1 here:

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...6447_20120330_20212_2323262_EN.pdf


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

It will be interesting to see what pricing, and what impact on pricing, VS has on LHR-EDI. Today (19 Nov), I believe that BA has operated 12 flights LHR-EDI including a couple of 767s. VS will add 3/4 flights per day (do we know how many? or do we need to wait a little while longer?) and will add, approx., 25% capacity to the route.

No doubt a fair amount of VS pax will be the connecting pax that used to go on BMI (from VS and Star) and are currently being routed on BA. All the indications we were given by BMI were that these pax were unprofitable (a loss of £38 per pax IIRC), so VS will probably need to charge their partners more per passenger (and I am sure BA is doing that already).

This will leave little additional capacity for O&D and VS will be at a disadvantage versus BA when it comes to frequency (for the full flexible fare pax), so I doubt the lawyers, bankers and politicians on London-Edinburgh (and v.v) day trips will be tempted to move across from BA.

Traditionally, as far as I, a customer, can tell, VS seems to offer the same prices as BA (so I am never quite sure how they claim: "Passengers can ... most importantly reap the benefits from the re-injection of vital competition we can provide on these routes", as I never see evidence of that on TATL pricing). I am currently interested and hope not to be disappointed.

Finally, it will be a challenge for VS to maintain a reliable, on time service with a very small fleet of aircraft. I hope for the pax sake (especially those on connections) that this doesn't become an issue.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

If VS join Star Alliance then it would be good news for pax in Scandinavia, SK mainly fly to LHR and very little more, so it would give access to more markets.

User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Quoting 747438 (Reply 26):
ead my profile  

I think I know what I'm on about

interesting... thought it was odd that MAN was announced from T1 when that was launched... good for Star connections but not for VS.... T3 would also mean pax can use the clubhouse.... a massive benefit....

Quoting VV701 (Reply 37):
So however successful or unsuccessful the new services prove to be the incentive to operate the new services until the start of Summer 2016 is huge.

... which makes me suspicious - perhaps this is why a wet lease is being operated here, to hold the slots through to Summer 2016... then switch them to new long haul ops....or could there be other reasons?

If the slots were operated at a loss for six seasons it could still be a cheaper way for VS to acquire them than paying cash up front?!


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

If the route is indeed operated by a Lithuanian carrier Virgin will have to be careful that their reputation is not dragged down by any associated problems, such as Monarch recently had with a similar operation.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13457 posts, RR: 100
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How many slot pairs were awarded? I recall a small number, but I'd like a verification.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 15):
They can eventually use the slots for other short-haul European services but they can't just convert them to long-haul.
Quoting EK413 (Reply 16):
I believe these birds will come from their American off shoot VX considering they have cancelled 20 of the 30 frames on order...?

My thought before I read about the wet lease. Besides, VS will need the aircraft *quick*!

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 32):
Anybody going to open a book on which actress/model/celeb is going to be scantily dressed for the photo oppertunity?

Could Branson still lift her?   

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 38):
so VS will probably need to charge their partners more per passenger (and I am sure BA is doing that already).

VS will also have lower costs. They might be able to get by on fairly low fairs. However, starting with new code shares will certainly help the revenue side.

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 40):
If the slots were operated at a loss for six seasons it could still be a cheaper way for VS to acquire them than paying cash up front?!

If allowed, a low cost strategy to gain LHR slots. Wet lease until the 18 months (or whatever it is exactly) and then say 'we gave it our shot, hello city XXX.'

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Leased Lithuanian carrier....? aaaargh !

User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

My own attempt at a mockup:



User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

I would imagine cabin crew and branding will be VS with aircraft and flight deck from Lithuania. Given they will have ABZ/EDI/MAN, I imagine they will source some A319s of their own. ABZ will be one to watch, bmi had nothing bigger than the ERJ-145 on that one in recent years so an A319 seems like overkill. If they're serious about the whole business of feeding long haul (and STAR),I would imagine GLA has to be next.

User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 41):
If the route is indeed operated by a Lithuanian carrier Virgin will have to be careful that their reputation is not dragged down by any associated problems, such as Monarch recently had with a similar operation

Maybe they will employ local crews and engineers for this operation.


User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 9
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 40):

The flights will be from T1, not T3.

The wet lease is purely because VS really couldn't order aircraft until they knew they would get the routes, and by then it would be too late



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 40):
... which makes me suspicious - perhaps this is why a wet lease is being operated here, to hold the slots through to Summer 2016... then switch them to new long haul ops....or could there be other reasons?If the slots were operated at a loss for six seasons it could still be a cheaper way for VS to acquire them than paying cash up front?!

Once again, Virgin is prohibited from just converting the slots to long-haul after three years.

They can only use them for another European short-haul service or the long-haul routes specified in IAG's competition commitments.

There's no way IAG's lawyers would have allowed Virgin to acquire 12 slot pairs for long haul routes through the back door.


User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

Can't see GLA. I expect the short haul operation to be a token gesture by 2016.

User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Ridgeway: "We have fought hard for the right to fly short haul"

Someone help me, I'm confused... what exactly was stopping a UK based carrier operating domestic UK flights from LHR until today? What kind of fight was needed to surmount such challenges?

With regards to the slots - did VS obtain all 12 available remedy slots that were allocated for all the identified cities (except Moscow)? Or is this just the initial batch of 7 slots specifically for EDI & ABZ only?


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 50):
Someone help me, I'm confused... what exactly was stopping a UK based carrier operating domestic UK flights from LHR until today? What kind of fight was needed to surmount such challenges?

I believe it was the fact that there were no (or very little) short haul slots available at LHR. Once BA acquired BMI, those slots freed up because of the consolidation. It was at that point that VS lodged their application. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the UK/LHR market could confirm/deny?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
How many slot pairs were awarded? I recall a small number, but I'd like a verification.

12 slot pairs.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineChrisM001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 72 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

Do Virgin get the slots for free from BA, or do they have to pay a pre-agreed amount? Does the EU set this amount?

User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 879 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 51):
12 slot pairs.

Plus 2 slot pairs that were pre-allocated to Transaero for Moscow services.


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 867 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

Found the relevant section of the agreement regarding the grandfathering of the slots:

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...6447_20120330_20212_2452290_EN.pdf

1.1.3. Grandfathering rights
644. As a general rule, the slots obtained by a prospective entrant must be operated on the
city pair(s) for which they have been requested from IAG and cannot be used on
another city pair unless the prospective entrant has operated them during at least six
full consecutive IATA seasons ("the Utilisation Period") The prospective entrant
would be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the slots once appropriate use of
the slots has been made on the city pairs at issue, for the Utilisation Period. Once the
Utilisation Period has elapsed, the prospective entrant would be entitled to use the
slots obtained on the basis of the Commitments exclusively to operate services on any
route connecting London with any other part of Europe (including Aberdeen and
Edinburgh), or on London-Moscow, London-Cairo and London-Riyadh.

645. During the Utilisation Period, the prospective entrant shall not be entitled to transfer,
assign, sell, swap or charge in breach of the Commitments any slots obtained from
IAG (except for changes to any such slots which are within the twenty/sixty minutes
time window and which have been agreed with the slot coordinator.). Provisions on
misuse of slots also apply. In the event of a misuse, the prospective entrant shall have
thirty days after such notice to cure the misuse, failure to which gives IAG the right to
terminate the agreement and obtain restitution of the slots.

664. It is important to note first that Heathrow slots have in thesmeselves a significant
value. This intresic attractiveness of the slots is enhanced in the Commitment package
by the prospect of acquiring grandfathering rights after six IATA seasons.

[Edited 2012-11-19 14:13:40]


the "Identified City Pairs": London-Aberdeen, London-Edinburgh, London-
Nice, London-Cairo, London-Riyadh and London-Moscow

638. The number of slots to be made available would enable prospective entrant(s) to
operate up to a total of seven frequencies per day on the Identified UK City Pairs and
up to a total of five frequencies per day on any Identified City Pair.


[Edited 2012-11-19 14:18:51]

User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 452 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

How about CMN, BA abandoned this route acquired from BMI and AT load factor is over 80%, and this route needs a competitor

User currently offlineHywel From Malaysia, joined Apr 2008, 805 posts, RR: 3
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

A Lithuanian carrier, Avion Express will be operating the flights.

http://flyavex.com/carrier-oppurtunities

Quote:
Avion Express is recruiting Airbus A320 pilots and cabin crew for a longer term contract for scheduled operations based in London Heathrow, starting on March 2013.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3660 times:

Quoting Hywel (Reply 56):
A Lithuanian carrier, Avion Express will be operating the flights.

...why?


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5304 posts, RR: 7
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 57):
...why?

I'd say because it is an EU carrier that specialises in wet leasing and has the available capacity!
But thats just my guess!


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 49):
Can't see GLA. I expect the short haul operation to be a token gesture by 2016.

Really? Larger market than Aberdeen by far with an existing Virgin operation? I suspect entry into STAR will see VS resume the old BD LHR-GLA route given the amount of feed that came off it. The trick is balancing the revenue between the partners though.

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 50):
Someone help me, I'm confused... what exactly was stopping a UK based carrier operating domestic UK flights from LHR until today? What kind of fight was needed to surmount such challenges?

Slots at LHR would need to come from existing profitable long haul and were at sub optimal times, hence the reason they wanted to merge with BMI years ago.


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