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Rival Plan To Take On Qantas CEO Alan Joyce  
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Former Qantas Airways finance chief Peter Gregg and venture capitalist Mark Carnegie have held discussions with key investors and unions as they consider a rival plan to challenge chief executive Alan Joyce’s strategy for the national carrier.

It is understood the pair, who have been linked to a loose consortium including advertising mogul John ­Singleton, former Qantas chief Geoff Dixon and trucking billionaire ­Lindsay Fox, would push for the sale of   Qantas Frequent Flyer and a ­partial float of Jetstar to return capital to shareholders if the plan was ­formalised.

It is believed Mr Gregg and Mr Carnegie about two months ago held a series of briefings with union groups, including those representing Qantas pilots, engineers and ground workers, in a bid to secure their support. Core Qantas investors to have been briefed on the plan include Balanced Equity Management.

http://afr.com/p/business/companies/...lenge_joyce_i9bm9SieKXLIUculg9wbaP


The detailed insight into an alternative survival strategy for Qantas in a report in the Australian Financial Review appears to have powerful friends among pilots and shareholders, but can a revolt against the failing strategies of the current management come fast enough to save the carrier?

The rest of the sector isn’t going to wait for Joyce, who has been a total failure at Qantas, and who has brought ruin on the share price, the carrier’s reputation and its relationship with its most valuable asset, its people, to get it right.

Joyce calling time out on Qantas long haul in terms of new investments is making a call no one else, including proposed strategic partner, Emirates, is going to hear or heed.

Adding a fare and capacity war to domestic Qantas activities is scarcely the stuff of genius either. The market needs to know how Jetstar in its own right is faring, and why there appears to be a problem with yields and scheduling with Qantas mainline.

It isn’t a legitimate investment to shuffle around A330s and refurbish aged fuel guzzling high maintenance 767s in the full service supposedly premium product when brand new Dreamliner 787-8s are consigned to a Jetstar international wide body operation that lacks total transparency in reporting and has been reducing some of its scheduling.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...y-get-the-numbers-to-force-change/


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Very harsh post, and very biased, i think, but only just another QF - Joyce - bashing post, in my view, not to be taken seriously. To call him a total failure is ridiculous. No further comments.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5586 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
can a revolt against the failing strategies of the current management come fast enough to save the carrier?

The rest of the sector isn’t going to wait for Joyce, who has been a total failure at Qantas

What nice, balanced journalism



... oh wait, it's Ben Sandilands.

Nothing to read here folks, just senseless bashing from someone with nothing else to do.

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Adding a fare and capacity war to domestic Qantas activities is scarcely the stuff of genius either

And of course that was QF's idea  

Seriously, what planet is this guy on? As if any corporation is going to just sit back and watch an upstart competitor eat their market share. It wasn't Qantas who started the fare war and capacity dumping, but they're responded - as pretty much anyone would - to protect their patch.



As to the real topic...

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Former Qantas Airways finance chief Peter Gregg and venture capitalist Mark Carnegie have held discussions with key investors and unions as they consider a rival plan to challenge chief executive Alan Joyce’s strategy for the national carrier.

This is being discussed in the Australian Aviation thread, and I've already given my views on this proposal there.

[Edited 2012-11-18 21:05:40]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
... oh wait, it's Ben Sandilands.

LOL - one of the great blowhards that blights the Australian aviation journalism.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

I wouldn't underestimate the motives of John ­Singleton, Geoff Dixon and trucking billionaire ­Lindsay Fox


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 4):
I wouldn't underestimate the motives of John ­Singleton, Geoff Dixon and trucking billionaire ­Lindsay Fox

I have little doubt that one of their motives is to make a lot of money.

Just to be "against Joyce" does not make them "good for Qantas." Mr. Dixon was a prime player in the failed takeover of Qantas.

I think the CEO of Emirates got it right when he said:

“They will always be in the wings,” Mr Clark said of the group. “If they have retired, retire.”

mariner

[Edited 2012-11-18 22:28:35]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3074 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
LOL - one of the great blowhards that blights the Australian aviation journalism.

I couldn't resist so posted on there. He really irritates me!


User currently onlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4136 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Was it not Mr Fox that boasted Tesna would be the best in Australia , only to pull the rug at the critical moment.
So memo to al thre
Mr Joyce what ever you are doing , stick to it
Mr Singleton stick to horses and radio stations
Mr Greg are you not up to your eyes in S%$T with Leightons ?

Leave QF alone see what happens with the EK venture ,and the Asian expansion plans AJ is the right man for the job .
And as far as having meetings with key parts of QF ,pilots , engineers etc. Is that legal ??

Mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently onlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1601 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
would push for the sale of   Qantas Frequent Flyer and a ­partial float of Jetstar to return capital to shareholders if the plan was ­formalised.

I know nothing about this journalist and less about the situation. I do know, however, that any "rescue" plan that involves returning capital to shareholders at a time when a company is in distress and needs capital to survive - has almost nothing to do with restoring the success of the corporation and everything to do with raiding the corporate coffers - usually at the expense of the corporation itself. If I were a union rep hearing this proposal, I'd be afraid - very afraid.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 8):
has almost nothing to do with restoring the success of the corporation and everything to do with raiding the corporate coffers - usually at the expense of the corporation itself. If I were a union rep hearing this proposal, I'd be afraid - very afraid.

  

Yes and Unfortunately they can't see they're being taken advantage of. You see a lot of them are furious that jetstar has been favoured for investment over them = less positions to advance to etc. Add a bit of a staff morale problem after Joyce took on the union last year and grounded the carrier and you have a group of disgruntled staff pretty much bent on seeing AJ go. This is exactly when a corporate raider can go in and the union guys won't see them for what they are, rather, they will see them as some kind of white knight. To be fair on QF, they have taken a huge amount of 737-800s in recent years and added A330s to the domestic fleet. It's not like the QF brand hasn't got any investment at all. But around the place seem to completely forget that even as they board a 737-800 with the Boeing Sky Interior!

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 1):
Very harsh post, and very biased, i think, but only just another QF - Joyce - bashing post, in my view, not to be taken seriously. To call him a total failure is ridiculous. No further comments.

  

Very Very true and I agree 100%.

Another thing I'd like to point out. Selling jetstar would be a disaster for Qantas. Why? at the moment it brings in money on key routes, that are price sensitive lower yielding routes. It has a huge amount of capacity in these markets. but its not just in these markets and does have a small presence on trunk routes, where yields are stronger. But if jetstar was sold, and not 'working with' its parent company, you would see some of that capacity immediately redirected. It would probably be only one schedule before you'd instead of something like 16 daily flights between sydney and the gold coast half of that capacity redirected to trunk routes. They'd of course instantly order more A320s, but problem here is they would have the ability to force yields down in a way QF's existing work groups couldn't...or will not be willing to compete with. So QF staff would have thought they had a win... they got rid of the evil jetstar! All they would be doing is cutting their own noses off to spite their own faces and some Venture Capitalist would walk away with billions from Listing JQ on the stock exchange. The QF group would be left weaker, with higher costs and have created its own leaner competitor forcing its margins down. Sure those in the suits may prefer the QF product, but the reality is, if JQ forces the economy price down on key routes even something like 20 %, a lot of the market, including small business, will pick JQ.

I'd say to those entertaining this idea wake up and smell the coffee. You may hate AJ, but don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Venture Capitalists are all about one thing.... MONEY. And if they need to see how it can apply to an airline I suggest they dig out the old 1980s film "wall street".


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

The Fin Review reporting that the consortium is to make their intention public this week


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

I missed this news when it was first posted.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 8):
I know nothing about this journalist and less about the situation. I do know, however, that any "rescue" plan that involves returning capital to shareholders at a time when a company is in distress and needs capital to survive - has almost nothing to do with restoring the success of the corporation and everything to do with raiding the corporate coffers - usually at the expense of the corporation itself. If I were a union rep hearing this proposal, I'd be afraid - very afraid.

No argument with this.

The problem is that the current CEO is doing the exact same thing.


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Quote:

Don't follow the 'smart' money to Qantas

Date
November 26, 2012 - 4:15PM

28 reading now

Nathan Bell

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According to The Australian Financial Review, former Qantas finance chief Peter Gregg and Mark Carnegie—backed by a coalition that includes former Qantas chief Geoff Dixon, John Singleton and Lindsay Fox—are agitating for change, including an overthrow of current chief executive Alan Joyce.

Gregg and Carnegie have been in discussions with union groups and investors, allegedly pushing for a sale of the Qantas Frequent Flyer business, a partial float of Jetstar and a deeper push into Asia.

The article suggests that a full takeover of Qantas is not on the cards but that the group might take a stake in the airline if they think they can wrangle control.

It's a long-held view that following the smart money is a great investment strategy. And these people are both smart and experienced. But this is one case where following the smart money may be foolish.
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Had you followed Gregg, Carnegie and Dixon last time they made a pitch for Qantas—all were involved in the failed $5.60 private equity bid in 2006—you'd have lost almost 80 per cent of your money over the ensuing six years, assuming Qantas didn't enter administration.

Agitating for change makes more sense this time around.

If the plan is to break up the Qantas group and profit from a rerating of the good bits—principally its loyalty program and freight business—why not do it when the stock is trading at an almost 50 per cent discount to net tangible assets (NTA) rather than multiples thereof in 2006?

And there is a precedent. The separation of Aeroplan, Air Canada's frequent flyer program, from its parent was a success. Many other airlines are considering following suit.

But even at a huge discount to NTA, we're not convinced.

Famed author Samuel Johnson once said, "a horse that can count to ten is a remarkable horse, not a remarkable mathematician". One might argue that Qantas is a remarkable airline; no one could argue it's a remarkable business. In fact, it's terrible.

If Gregg, Carnegie et al obtain control, it might not make much difference. Airlines tend to struggle to earn decent returns on capital no matter who or what is running them.

Airlines are a high fixed-cost business. Success is extremely dependent on high capacity utilisation. That in itself isn't a bad thing—good toll roads mint money with similar characteristics.

Crucially though, customers tend not to differentiate between airlines on anything other than price. With lots of choice, pricing is cut-throat. Toll roads don't have that sort of competition.

All an airline's profit comes from is getting bums on the last few available seats at a reasonable price. Combining that with a competitive market and a lack of pricing power isn't a recipe for success.

Capital intensity is also a huge handicap. If an airline doesn't spend a few billion dollars on efficient new planes like the Dreamliner, the competition eats your lunch on fuel costs.

So the whole industry spends heavily on new planes, locking in sub-par returns on capital in the process. That's why so few airlines have been able to eke out even a reasonable return on capital.

Every other participant in the travel chain has the better of the airlines, from customers to airport owners, from aircraft manufacturers to heavily unionised staff.

There is one thing this industry does have that most lack—glamour.

Richard Branson, Warren Buffett and Sanjay Agarwal, owner of an Indian brewing monopoly that started Kingfisher Airlines, were all seduced by the smell of avgas and soaring metal. None fared well.

A poor business like this one tends to get the better of even brilliant minds. That's why following the smart money strategy is unlikely to work this time.

If it were announced tomorrow that Qantas was liquidating and returning all excess capital to shareholders, at the current price it would be worth a closer look.

But the chances of that are about the same as finding an old bar fridge on Mars, plugged in and stocked with Coopers.

This business is almost certainly locked into a cycle of investing large wads of shareholder capital at sub-par rates of return. It deserves every bit of its current large discount to NTA. AVOID.

* This article contains general investment advice only (under AFSL 282288).

Nathan Bell is research director at Intelligent Investor. BusinessDay readers can enjoy a free trial offer. For more Intelligent Investor articles, click here.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/intel...-20121126-2a2y8.html#ixzz2DIw3A4RC

Suffice to say, I am glad to be not invested in Qantas, and have been since AJ took over.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

More news articles popping up http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...rline/story-e6frg95x-1226523807271

RETAIL king Gerry Harvey and his wife Katie Page have emerged as surprise investors in a private trust controlled by a group of wealthy investors that has purchased a small stake in Qantas with a view to pushing for strategic change at the airline.

It is understood Mr Harvey and Ms Page have joined former Qantas chief Geoff Dixon, former CFO Peter Gregg, venture capitalist Mark Carnegie and adman John Singleton in buying a stake

None of those involved would comment yesterday, including Mr Harvey, but Mr Gregg told The Australian last week that the group was interested because "it saw value in the share price".

"The share price just doesn't reflect the value in the company," he said.
The group bought its stake through a private trust so it could not be detected by the airline.

And http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...ofits/story-e6frg9io-1226524201447

Given the extraordinary coverage dedicated to 1.5 per cent of the share register, one can only assume the consortium wanted their existence known in the hope of flushing out new backers and, at the very least, a firm commitment from the 16 per cent of the register that approached the team to back them to become more activist.

The consortium was formed around May and started investing in June at about $1.15 a share so it has already gained about 12 per cent or $4.7 million.

The remaining members - Geoff Dixon, Peter Gregg, John Singleton, Gerry Harvey and Mark Carnegie - have funded their stake in part with debt so the returns would be higher. So far so goodl; they made the right call.

Qantas is angry at Geoff Dixon, alleging he is conflicted in his dual role as head of Tourism Australia and also Qantas investor. That’s a stretch because Qantas should welcome new investors. If Dixon has not raced to publicly endorse the Emirates deal then that’s hardly a crime so the undisguised anger from the Qantas camp tells you plenty about its state of mind.

The concept of former executives taking pot shots at the company is, of course, plain wrong and not fair to Alan Joyce or Leigh Clifford.

It would be a different matter if the consortium had a 5 to 10 per cent stake. It may also be different if the consortium sold its plan by stating how it would operate the airline to drum up support.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 3604 times:

With respect to this proposed consortium's shake-up of Qantas, the devil will be in the detail. There hasn't been much in terms of proposed strategy except that they would oppose the EK tie-up and expand/rejig QF international. I read another article last week in the AFR which quoted one of the consortium saying that a tie-up with CX would be the more logical and smarter choice than EK.

My only concern is that whilst the consortium would go on a PR blitz to promote their strategy on how it would expand QF and save Australian jobs, their underlying motives will ultimately be driven by making a quick buck on their investment. The attempted private equity takeover which failed several years ago involved QF digging into it's cash reserves and borrowing to pay an up-front cash dividend to the private equity consortium. That attempt only just failed because one hedge fund stuffed up their timing in purchasing a stake which would've got the proposal over the line, good thing the proposal failed because the plan was to load QF up with debt, all of this just before the GFC hit. QF wouldn't have survived the GFC under the proposed debt load.

Would their proposed strategy really turnaround QF? I'm not sure, the inherent issues with the international business were there when Dixon & Co were at the helm, so the question is why didn't they act back in the day?
One thing though is that they are probably right when they say the current airline's share price is probably not indicative of the long term and instrinsic value within QF.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

The animosity brewing is intense


A 40-YEAR partnership with Tourism Australia has been abandoned by Qantas amid allegations of sabotage.
Qantas has suspended a $50 million marketing deal with the tourism body, claiming its boss Geoff Dixon was leading a consortium trying to remove current Qantas management and buy the company out, The Daily Telegraph reports.
Qantas boss Alan Joyce reportedly wrote to Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson on Tuesday, telling him the national carrier was suspending all future dealings with Tourism Australia.
It is believed Mr Joyce warned the government Qantas would refuse to have any further dealings with Tourism Australia while Mr Dixon - a former Qantas CEO - was chairman.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...frfku9-1226525330262#ixzz2DR5VehMB



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

QANTAS chief Alan Joyce has launched a stinging attack on investors agitating for a strategic overhaul of the struggling airline.

And Mr Joyce has mounted a vigorous defence of his revival plan for the carrier, saying alternative proposals are "unbelievably wrong".

He said the company's move to suspend its three-year, $44 million agreement with Tourism Australia was vital to protect the airline. Qantas and the government-backed tourism group had been partners for 40 years.
Mr Joyce said there was a clear conflict in the partnership since it emerged that Tourism Australia chairman Geoff Dixon was among a group of wealthy investors looking to challenge the airline's direction.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...da1bsz-1226526082836#ixzz2DZD3wpvP

Odd happenings and Tourism Australia has come out and backed Dixon. Where does this leave Joyce?



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3074 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 16):
Odd happenings and Tourism Australia has come out and backed Dixon. Where does this leave Joyce?

Ultimately the Board of Tourism Australia reports to the Federal Minister. So if QF has smart lobbyists in Canberra, and by all accounts they do, I'd say this fight to remove Geoff Dixon isn't over by a long shot.

Where does this leave Alan Joyce? Reports this morning suggests he has $40 million to spend and no-one to spend it with. Apparently Campbell Newman has already called him about funding Tourism QLD and I'll bet the other State Premiers won't be far behind. So all in all it probably doesn't leave him anywhere but as a man in renewed demand from the States and probably in a better position to exert control over what the State Government agencies would do with QF's money.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 13):
If Dixon has not raced to publicly endorse the Emirates deal then that’s hardly a crime so the undisguised anger from the Qantas camp tells you plenty about its state of mind.

With Dixons predecessor and successor both on the Board of Qantas, there would be plenty of experience in how to handle him. While this may seem aggressive, it's obviously been seen by those who know him and worked with him, and in the case of James Strong the person who was mainly responsible for elevating him to CEO once he left, as the best way to handle him.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

http://www.leadingcompany.com.au/lea...qantas-ceo-alan-joyce/201211293163

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is becoming the master of the dramatic decision.



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 17):
With Dixons predecessor and successor both on the Board of Qantas, there would be plenty of experience in how to handle him. While this may seem aggressive, it's obviously been seen by those who know him and worked with him, and in the case of James Strong the person who was mainly responsible for elevating him to CEO once he left, as the best way to handle him.

  

And James Strong has much to Answer for. He oversaw the airline when it basically had one fat and lazy domestic
competitor, had a duopoly stitched up across the transpacific, he refused to plan the fleet so at the time (read purchase a 380-300 seater aircraft, which initially probably should have been the DC-10, but later the 777-200er) to maintain service to some european cities allowing the asian airlines to grow faster than they would have handing them that market, and basically had a 'life is good' the entire time he was there. The only market where anybody faced any serious competition was to Europe so Strong's answer was to pull out and send everybody to London, like it or not. What he ended up doing was sending everybody to Cathay and Singapore, like it or not, but after experiencing the two a lot of people did like it.

Strong did very little to address cost structure etc. And right when little virgin blue was born and started forcing some of these issues to the table, strong was off to play mastermind elsewhere at places like woolworths.

At this point, it looks like Dixon and friends don't have enough money to do what they want. And Unlike mid last decade, banks aren't just gonna be handing out cash the way leveraged buyouts where possible. Alan Joyce here is right to pull out some big numbers, and strong is probably pissed off that he publicly aired Strong's poor record in the international business. He is right to point out the entire thing needs to be rethought. We can disagree on how but he is right to point out the ways of the past cannot be continued. I think clifford and AJ are right to tell them to but out. They had their chance, they didn't achieve it, and it looks like they're not genuine either, but motivated by money.


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