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Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....  
User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7434 posts, RR: 17
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Excuse me if this was posted previously, but I just found this on AVHerald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4591101a&opt=0

Quoting Aviation Herald:
A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300, registration N625SW performing flight WN-2605 from Oklahoma City,OK to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 86 people on board, was enroute when cabin crew conducted beverage service. A flight attendant tripped over a passenger's leg extended into the aisle and fell. The flight attendant was not able to continue duties due to pain in knee and foot.

Apparently had a foot fracture.

Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

A very strange and unusual situation. Glad that it was just the foot of the f/a and nothing more serious than that, albeit a foot fracture is really debilitating.

-PHX787


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5438 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

That is very unfortunate, I wish them a speedy recovery

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Well as it was an injury at work I imagine that WN (or their insurer) would cover the medical expenses, although I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to recover the costs from the passenger.

The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9029 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.

Exactly, it will be a workers comp case. However it does show how dangerous it can be when people do thoughtless things like that.


User currently offlinecolumbia107 From Gibraltar, joined Aug 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.
Just my 2 cents.



In God we trust
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence). Just to level the field.


User currently onlineozark1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

It's funny how some people automatically go to "Who sues who?". This was a simple accident, it was an IOD--injury on duty--and WN will pay her while she is out.

User currently offlineYYCspotter From Canada, joined Jul 2012, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill?
Pun intended?



I
User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineupsmd11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 814 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2548 times:
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Human error on both parts. The FA has seen, no doubt, other passengers putting their legs in the aisle and should be on the lookout for such things. The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in. I am sure the WN workers compensation will cover this whole thing though.

John


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3813 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting upsmd11 (Reply 9):
The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in.

WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5438 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):
I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

How? They were clearly negligent.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 5):
Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence)

This is true, if it were to end up in court there would almost definitely be a countercase.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6321 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2556 times:

Out of curiosity - I've only seen WN use the minimum number of flight attendants, which is 3 on their 737s. If one of them becomes physically unable to perform during the flight, does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3924 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2551 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

The only thing certain here is that it's anything but clear.

Why wasn't the FA watching for obvious obstacles she might trip over? Was the passengers leg slightly out, halfway out, fully out or resting on the chair opposite? Was the passenger tall, and therefor unable to keep his leg in?

Claiming "clear negligence" for just having a leg in the aisle is basically what is wrong with the litigation system today.


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2550 times:

Similar thing happened at my job. Employee tripped over a customer's foot and injured his knee. No mean intentions from the customer, it was an accident. Health insurance and company paid for the bill. The same will probably apply here. I'm sure such an accident takes place more often than not.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4930 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 12):
does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

Not in flight, but it will at the next stop.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2360 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2549 times:

I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

I'm 6'2 and I always keep my legs out of the aisle. I don't want to be injured, nor do I want someone to trip. I've seen people who are way shorter than I am with their legs in the aisle, and just don't get it. Some people just like to spread themselves all over. And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.

Exactly, which is why I don't place my legs in the aisle.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2547 times:

People are larger than they were a generation ago and seating configs are denser than just ten years ago.

Thus cabin crew tripping injuries will be more common and passenger foot/shoulder vs. cart are becoming routine (despite pre-service PA's in 5 languages imploring people to huddle into their seats before the carts come out :/ ). Kudos to WN crews who have been hand running for years with relatively few incidents. When my airline flew a subtype that required han running, it was a very challenging adjustment.


User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7434 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.

Has this ever happened before? I mean there was an incident a few years back in Cincinnati where a Megabus luggage handler got injured when someone's overweight bag fell on them and caused an injury. The case was settled out of court but apparently the pax failed to declare that it was overweight and the handler had no idea it was either. I don't know the details, but I mean, I've seen pax-caused injuries to crew/staff being paid for in some way by the passenger.

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 7):
Pun intended?

  

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Yeah from what I see it's usually a passenger getting his foot crushed by the cart, or stepped on by another passenger. Never have I seen a tripping case.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5131 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2546 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Does anyone have to pay? FA goes to Hospital and insurance pays no?


User currently offlineakelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2191 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2546 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

You have got to be kidding me. Were you there and 'clearly' saw what happened?

This was an accident, pure an simple. Worker's Compensation insurance will pay for the medical bill as well as pay the FA's salary while they are recovering.


User currently onlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5131 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2547 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.


User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2546 times:
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Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

do you Recline your seat?, what would the problem be of you also reclined your seat?



Boiler Up!
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2546 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 10):
WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray

WN don't use a cart on any of their aircraft. Even the 737-800 is now all tray service, no carts.


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Well, I'm a careful FA...have been for nearly 20 years. I've tripped and stumbled...on purses, feet, legs, coats, straps on back packs, you name it. But I don't go looking to sue the pax. I've also bumped people, arm rests, seat backs, etc. No law suit there. I've also been elbowed in the crotch, hit on the chin, etc etc etc.

It's a small area with a LOT of flinging body parts and "stuff" in the way. I think MOST people get that and realize that 1) it's not intentional, 2) it's not sexual 3) it's not all that fun for anyone.

Smile and nod and move on; in the event of an injury, deal with it and realize it's a "is what it is" situation and rarely is there a reason to seek a financial remedy.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
25 kanban : Flying with long legs and artificial knees brings on several problems.. I generally ask the person in front to be careful putting the seat back and al
26 DTWPurserBoy : I agree with B727FA. For every passenger leg, purse, backpack, kid, etc. that I have tripped over I have run into someone's knees, legs and arms with
27 737tdi : There are not going to be any lawsuits. Good grief, you guys make it look like Americans are sue happy. Out of millions of fliers, discern the percent
28 chrisair : Somehow I think the passenger will remember what happened.
29 brilondon : They are sue happy. The FA should sue the airline for the incident, they are the ones who have made the decision to not give us taller people any roo
30 PHX787 : But where is the responsibility here? IIRC Aren't FAs supposed to supervise the loading of the bins, or at least check of their security/safety befor
31 DTWPurserBoy : And I quote myself "Please use caution when opening the overhead bins as things do tend to move about during the flight." It is usually at the END of
32 AirframeAS : Not when common sense is thrown out the window. Putting feet or your legs in an aisle in any moving vehicle is a safety risk be it a bus or a plane.
33 Silver1SWA : Are you serious, or being facetious? Every passenger has a seat that reclines and should be able to use that feature if they like. If that offends yo
34 iowaman : Just a friendly reminder to all to please keep the discussion civil and avoid any personal attacks. Please stay on topic to avoid any more posts from
35 PDX88 : I'm tall and a bit cramped in an average coach seat, and I travel with my laptop which is under the seat in front of me so no foot room there, so I o
36 AirframeAS : There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep your leg or foot in the aisle for an extended period of time. That was my ENTIRE point to my post. I
37 PlanesNTrains : If you get up and walk around, you can end up as a CAT victim. If you leave your seat during beverage service, you can be in the way. If you leave you
38 PDX88 : The report never said this passenger just had his leg sticking out in the aisle the entire flight, it may have just been a brief second just as the F
39 FI642 : Southwest takes care of their employees. Certainly this F/A wil be treated with respect, and well cared for. Accidents happen. Thankfully Southwest ca
40 Post contains images PHX787 : I never saw anything along the lines of anything involving the passenger getting hurt. I mean the whole thing could've been worse but it's a good thi
41 Aeri28 : interesting read. and I will admit, me being 6'3", I am not immune to sticking my big feet and long legs into the aisle to give them a little stretch
42 avroarrow : I agree that it sucks that anyone got hurt, however since the injury happened in the workplace, one would hope that the company and their private/gove
43 AA767400 : So you're exactly that person that get's offended? And kick someone's seat if they recline? Wow. I've seen plenty of people trip, including FAs. Happ
44 Antoniemey : Granted, on WN's 737s it's not an issue, but for a lot of us, a lot of planes are not large enough for getting up and walking around to be in anyway
45 rcair1 : Workman's compensation. WN is required by law to carry that on their employees. Unlikely. Certainly it would not be WN, it may be their insurer. Howe
46 Post contains links AirframeAS : Well, then here is another option: http://chirocentre.co.uk/how-to-stretch-exercise-on-airplane-flight/ The also helps with DVT.
47 DTWPurserBoy : With the interior configurations as cramped as they are it is no surprise that people stick their feet in the aisle. I don't think it is intentional a
48 brilondon : I am sure the airline whose seat you are attempting to damage would love you to do this every time you have your space invaded...oh wait if his seat
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