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Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7180 posts, RR: 17
Posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Excuse me if this was posted previously, but I just found this on AVHerald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4591101a&opt=0

Quoting Aviation Herald:
A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300, registration N625SW performing flight WN-2605 from Oklahoma City,OK to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 86 people on board, was enroute when cabin crew conducted beverage service. A flight attendant tripped over a passenger's leg extended into the aisle and fell. The flight attendant was not able to continue duties due to pain in knee and foot.

Apparently had a foot fracture.

Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

A very strange and unusual situation. Glad that it was just the foot of the f/a and nothing more serious than that, albeit a foot fracture is really debilitating.

-PHX787


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5175 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

That is very unfortunate, I wish them a speedy recovery

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Well as it was an injury at work I imagine that WN (or their insurer) would cover the medical expenses, although I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to recover the costs from the passenger.

The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2050 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.

Exactly, it will be a workers comp case. However it does show how dangerous it can be when people do thoughtless things like that.


User currently offlinecolumbia107 From Gibraltar, joined Aug 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.
Just my 2 cents.



In God we trust
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence). Just to level the field.


User currently offlineozark1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

It's funny how some people automatically go to "Who sues who?". This was a simple accident, it was an IOD--injury on duty--and WN will pay her while she is out.

User currently offlineYYCspotter From Canada, joined Jul 2012, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2493 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill?
Pun intended?



I
User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2492 times:

Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineupsmd11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 807 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2492 times:

Human error on both parts. The FA has seen, no doubt, other passengers putting their legs in the aisle and should be on the lookout for such things. The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in. I am sure the WN workers compensation will cover this whole thing though.

John


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting upsmd11 (Reply 9):
The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in.

WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5175 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):
I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

How? They were clearly negligent.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 5):
Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence)

This is true, if it were to end up in court there would almost definitely be a countercase.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2500 times:

Out of curiosity - I've only seen WN use the minimum number of flight attendants, which is 3 on their 737s. If one of them becomes physically unable to perform during the flight, does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3865 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

The only thing certain here is that it's anything but clear.

Why wasn't the FA watching for obvious obstacles she might trip over? Was the passengers leg slightly out, halfway out, fully out or resting on the chair opposite? Was the passenger tall, and therefor unable to keep his leg in?

Claiming "clear negligence" for just having a leg in the aisle is basically what is wrong with the litigation system today.


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2494 times:

Similar thing happened at my job. Employee tripped over a customer's foot and injured his knee. No mean intentions from the customer, it was an accident. Health insurance and company paid for the bill. The same will probably apply here. I'm sure such an accident takes place more often than not.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4912 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 12):
does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

Not in flight, but it will at the next stop.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

I'm 6'2 and I always keep my legs out of the aisle. I don't want to be injured, nor do I want someone to trip. I've seen people who are way shorter than I am with their legs in the aisle, and just don't get it. Some people just like to spread themselves all over. And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.

Exactly, which is why I don't place my legs in the aisle.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

People are larger than they were a generation ago and seating configs are denser than just ten years ago.

Thus cabin crew tripping injuries will be more common and passenger foot/shoulder vs. cart are becoming routine (despite pre-service PA's in 5 languages imploring people to huddle into their seats before the carts come out :/ ). Kudos to WN crews who have been hand running for years with relatively few incidents. When my airline flew a subtype that required han running, it was a very challenging adjustment.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7180 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.

Has this ever happened before? I mean there was an incident a few years back in Cincinnati where a Megabus luggage handler got injured when someone's overweight bag fell on them and caused an injury. The case was settled out of court but apparently the pax failed to declare that it was overweight and the handler had no idea it was either. I don't know the details, but I mean, I've seen pax-caused injuries to crew/staff being paid for in some way by the passenger.

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 7):
Pun intended?

  

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Yeah from what I see it's usually a passenger getting his foot crushed by the cart, or stepped on by another passenger. Never have I seen a tripping case.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Does anyone have to pay? FA goes to Hospital and insurance pays no?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineakelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2189 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

You have got to be kidding me. Were you there and 'clearly' saw what happened?

This was an accident, pure an simple. Worker's Compensation insurance will pay for the medical bill as well as pay the FA's salary while they are recovering.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

do you Recline your seat?, what would the problem be of you also reclined your seat?



Boiler Up!
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 10):
WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray

WN don't use a cart on any of their aircraft. Even the 737-800 is now all tray service, no carts.


User currently onlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Well, I'm a careful FA...have been for nearly 20 years. I've tripped and stumbled...on purses, feet, legs, coats, straps on back packs, you name it. But I don't go looking to sue the pax. I've also bumped people, arm rests, seat backs, etc. No law suit there. I've also been elbowed in the crotch, hit on the chin, etc etc etc.

It's a small area with a LOT of flinging body parts and "stuff" in the way. I think MOST people get that and realize that 1) it's not intentional, 2) it's not sexual 3) it's not all that fun for anyone.

Smile and nod and move on; in the event of an injury, deal with it and realize it's a "is what it is" situation and rarely is there a reason to seek a financial remedy.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3383 posts, RR: 26
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2765 times:
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Flying with long legs and artificial knees brings on several problems.. I generally ask the person in front to be careful putting the seat back and allow me a moment to readjust where my knees are.. (the response usually is they don't recline their seats.) The other thing about stainless steel knees, slamming the seat back will hurt you more than me. The other is I mention to the FA's that I may need to stretch my leg in the aisle and will try to be aware when they're coming through.. again I usually get a don't worry about it response. Personally I think it is incumbent on the person needing the space to ensure they are not a safety hazard.

User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

I agree with B727FA. For every passenger leg, purse, backpack, kid, etc. that I have tripped over I have run into someone's knees, legs and arms with a meal and/or beverage cart. Just apologize and move on. Every once in a while you get a drama queen (either pax or f/a) that wants to create a scene. Just listen patiently, apologize again, and move on. If anyone has ever tried to sue the airline over it I never heard about it.

Lately, it has been overpacked overhead bins that are causing the injuries. Someone opens the bin, a laptop falls out and konks someone on the head. Sometimes all it is a jacket or something and you would think someone had dropped a 737 on them for all the whining you hear.

I sincerely hope the f/a was not seriously injured. We're a pretty tough bunch.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 783 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2817 times:
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There are not going to be any lawsuits. Good grief, you guys make it look like Americans are sue happy. Out of millions of fliers, discern the percentage of lawsuits filed. I would bet it is less then .00001 percent. That is one out of every 10 million, and I would guess it is probably less then that. There is no reason to think about lawsuit. It was an accident. WN will pay the OJI and the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

My response to this. Keep your legs in your space, especially while cabin service is being performed. JMO.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2065 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 27):
the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

Somehow I think the passenger will remember what happened.


User currently onlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 27):
There are not going to be any lawsuits. Good grief, you guys make it look like Americans are sue happy. Out of millions of fliers, discern the percentage of lawsuits filed. I would bet it is less then .00001 percent. That is one out of every 10 million, and I would guess it is probably less then that. There is no reason to think about lawsuit. It was an accident. WN will pay the OJI and the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

My response to this. Keep your legs in your space, especially while cabin service is being performed. JMO.

They are sue happy. The FA should sue the airline for the incident, they are the ones who have made the decision to not give us taller people any room to sit. The airlines really need to look at making more room for your legs in the aircraft for all passengers, not just for those who want to pay extra for much needed cm's. If the airline needs more money then they should just charge more for the flight and all those WN flyers who don't want to increase their costs reexamine their travels and budget. I remember when you could actually get out of your seat by the window without having to dry hump your seat mate.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7180 posts, RR: 17
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 26):
Lately, it has been overpacked overhead bins that are causing the injuries. Someone opens the bin, a laptop falls out and konks someone on the head. Sometimes all it is a jacket or something and you would think someone had dropped a 737 on them for all the whining you hear.

But where is the responsibility here? IIRC Aren't FAs supposed to supervise the loading of the bins, or at least check of their security/safety before takeoff? I have always seen FAs around me check the bins or close the bins themselves when they're full, to make sure theyre not a safety issue.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 30):
But where is the responsibility here? IIRC Aren't FAs supposed to supervise the loading of the bins, or at least check of their security/safety before takeoff? I have always seen FAs around me check the bins or close the bins themselves when they're full, to make sure theyre not a safety issue

And I quote myself "Please use caution when opening the overhead bins as things do tend to move about during the flight."

It is usually at the END of the flight when the bins are opened and things fall out. Gotcha!



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 20):
This was an accident, pure an simple.

Not when common sense is thrown out the window. Putting feet or your legs in an aisle in any moving vehicle is a safety risk be it a bus or a plane. Falls and trips can put one out of work for a long time. Whoever injured this FA has no regard for anyone's safety and should pay the price. Why would anyone put their leg or foot in the aisle during beverage service. I mean.....hello?! Duh. Some people don't know how to use their melons.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4763 posts, RR: 26
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
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Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.


Are you serious, or being facetious? Every passenger has a seat that reclines and should be able to use that feature if they like. If that offends you, take it up with the airline who opted to install that feature, not the person who chooses to use what's available to them.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4364 posts, RR: 6
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2728 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Just a friendly reminder to all to please keep the discussion civil and avoid any personal attacks. Please stay on topic to avoid any more posts from being removed and/or the thread locked.

[Edited 2012-11-19 15:40:39]


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinePDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):
Not when common sense is thrown out the window. Putting feet or your legs in an aisle in any moving vehicle is a safety risk be it a bus or a plane. Falls and trips can put one out of work for a long time. Whoever injured this FA has no regard for anyone's safety and should pay the price. Why would anyone put their leg or foot in the aisle during beverage service.

I'm tall and a bit cramped in an average coach seat, and I travel with my laptop which is under the seat in front of me so no foot room there, so I occasionally stretch my leg briefly in the aisle when it gets sore. It's not a lack of common sense. I do check to make sure I'm not going to be tripping anybody first. Flight attendants bringing the beverage cart from the back to the front walk backwards with the cart and cannot see what is sticking out into the aisle, just as the passenger probably couldn't see the FA coming from behind them.

If they don't want you sticking appendages into the aisle, then maybe they should put in fences in each row that block passengers in during beverage service? (Sarcasm of course). There are no placards, warnings (audible or visual), barriers, or restrictions for the passenger to go by about sticking their leg in the aisle, so how can the airline sue?


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 35):

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep your leg or foot in the aisle for an extended period of time. That was my ENTIRE point to my post. I get that you're tall. But if you need to stretch out on a flight, then get up and walk around. As for your laptop under the seat in front of you keeping you from having room for your feet under said seat, it was your choice to put it there.

It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

If you get up and walk around, you can end up as a CAT victim. If you leave your seat during beverage service, you can be in the way. If you leave your leg in place too long, it can cramp. It's pretty much a no win situation for the passenger.

The flight attendant would have been walking with a tray so might not have seen the leg. However, they are doing a job that would see this as something expected (a foot/leg/bag fouling the aisle) so are probably normally aware. This time the stars aligned (or misaligned) for them.

Regardless, it was an accident and nothing more. You can get angry and self-righteous about it or you can accept that crap happens and forgive.

- Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinePDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.

The report never said this passenger just had his leg sticking out in the aisle the entire flight, it may have just been a brief second just as the FA was coming up behind him/her. Just an unfortunate accident is my guess.

[Edited 2012-11-20 05:58:19 by 777ER]

User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

Southwest takes care of their employees. Certainly this F/A wil be treated with respect, and well cared for.
Accidents happen. Thankfully Southwest cares.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7180 posts, RR: 17
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 38):
The report never said this passenger just had his leg sticking out in the aisle the entire flight, it may have just been a brief second just as the FA was coming up behind him/her. Just an unfortunate accident is my guess.

I never saw anything along the lines of anything involving the passenger getting hurt. I mean the whole thing could've been worse but it's a good thing that it wasn't worse than it was.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.

It's also rather rude, in my opinion. If you go to Japan, for example, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't ever see it.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 34):
Just a friendly reminder to all to please keep the discussion civil and avoid any personal attacks. Please stay on topic to avoid any more posts from being removed and/or the thread locked.

   Jumping right out of the gate eh?  
Don't worry, if anything goes awry, we got the SD button



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

interesting read. and I will admit, me being 6'3", I am not immune to sticking my big feet and long legs into the aisle to give them a little stretch in the cramped compartment. I do realize I am 'mindful' of someone coming down the aisle and hope the person also is aware of what may fall in his/her direction. The leg is not sticking straight out into the aisle as I would have to be quite the contortionist to manage that, but rather the foot and leg is 'flush' with the seat in front of me, no more than an errant bag, fallen pillow or blanket may be. Still both parties should b e a little vigilant and even the person walking up/down the asle. There may be a cup or glass or any other item that may have mistakenly appeared on the floor, so be aware of your surroundings.

User currently offlineavroarrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

I agree that it sucks that anyone got hurt, however since the injury happened in the workplace, one would hope that the company and their private/government insurance would cover treatment and lost wages, since that is the purpose of insurance in the first place. I doubt it was the intention of the passenger to cause injury, so suing them would be a pointless waste of time, I'm sure that a portion of everybody's fare must go towards covering this sort of unexpected incident on some level or another?

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:05:42 by 777ER]


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2332 posts, RR: 26
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

So you're exactly that person that get's offended? And kick someone's seat if they recline? Wow.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Yeah from what I see it's usually a passenger getting his foot crushed by the cart, or stepped on by another passenger. Never have I seen a tripping case.

I've seen plenty of people trip, including FAs. Happens all the time, however rarely does it cause an injury and make a headline. And if a passenger get's stepped on, crushed, etc, it's pretty much their fault for sticking their legs out in the aisle as if they were on a beach with a margarita.

Common sense, and etiquette is lacking nowadays in public.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
But if you need to stretch out on a flight, then get up and walk around.

Granted, on WN's 737s it's not an issue, but for a lot of us, a lot of planes are not large enough for getting up and walking around to be in anyway "stretching out." And the other issues with that statement have already been pointed out.

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:04:17 by 777ER]


Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1305 posts, RR: 52
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days ago) and read 2548 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Workman's compensation. WN is required by law to carry that on their employees.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
Well as it was an injury at work I imagine that WN (or their insurer) would cover the medical expenses, although I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to recover the costs from the passenger.

Unlikely. Certainly it would not be WN, it may be their insurer. However, there is no clear evidence of any negligence that I have seen.

One definition of negligence (for legal purposes - dictionary.com).

the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care.

Note the words "the law requires". There would need to be a law that the passenger violated. Such as purposely tripping the person - in which case it is assault.
There are probably mitigating circumstances to consider as well.
Was the area under the seat in front occupied by luggage. Remember, the airlines often say 'the area under the seat in front of you is your primary storage and should be used" or something like that.
The passenger may have had some medical condition that required him/her to stretch the leg from time to time.
The passenger may have been bent over reaching for something and not have seen the FA.

I don't know if any of these things are true - but before you can determine negligence, you first must have a legal standard your actions met.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

They would only be negligent if they saw the FA coming, waited to the last second and stuck their foot out to trip them.
See my previous paragraph - there has been no evidence here that the passenger was negligent - nor the airline.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
'm 6'2 and I always keep my legs out of the aisle.

I'm 6'0 and sometimes I have to stretch my knees out. I know people taller than me who have shorter thighs and a freind who is my same height who has longer ones - I've sat beside him on the plane and we've noticed how I have an inch to spare to my knees, and he does not.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

This is one of the biggest problems of society today - people are 'offended' by everything.



rcair1
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 44):
for a lot of us, a lot of planes are not large enough for getting up and walking around to be in anyway "stretching out."

Well, then here is another option:

http://chirocentre.co.uk/how-to-stretch-exercise-on-airplane-flight/

The also helps with DVT.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

With the interior configurations as cramped as they are it is no surprise that people stick their feet in the aisle. I don't think it is intentional and most people move them when they see you coming with a cart.

My pet peeve safety wise is parents that let their children sleep on the floor. That is so patently and obviously dangerous. And when you politely ask them to pick the child up they get testy. The conversation usually goes something like this:

Me: "Excuse me sir/ma'am, but would you please pick the child up off the floor? It is not a safe place for them to be unrestrained in case of unexpected turbulence or they could be injured when we are moving equipment around the aircraft.

Pax: "Why should I? He/she is sleeping. I don't want to wake them up."

Me: "Well, I can certainly appreciate that. I have a question for you. Do you let your child sleep on the floor of your car?"

Pax: (indignantly) "Of course not! That wouldn' be safe."

Me: "I could not agree more. If you won't let your child sleep on the floor of a vehicle moving 65 miles per hour unrestrained why would you let them sleep on the floor of a vehicle moving at over 650 miles per hour?"

Pax: Silence. They pick the child up.

Me: "Thank you for your help. I would hate to see a child injured aboard a flight that I was working. How about if I get you a piece of fruit or some crackers that might help make them sleepy again and you can hold them or place them in their seat."



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently onlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

I am sure the airline whose seat you are attempting to damage would love you to do this every time you have your space invaded...oh wait if his seat is in that space it is not your space, it is his.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
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