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Iberia Might Suspend HAV, SDQ & SJO Services  
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 580 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 18383 times:

Iberia is currently studying the possibility of suspending its operations between its MAD hub and Havana, Santo Domingo and San José. Apparently, these 3 long-haul routes aren't profitable enough for IB.


Full story: http://www.preferente.com/noticias-d...o-domingo-y-costa-rica-235052.html


JESÚS, TE AMO !!
144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8212 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 18430 times:

IB made a huge mistake not ordering A330s 5-6 years ago and now they're paying the price of having to operate their TATL routes with some of the least efficient aircraft there are for these routes.

User currently offlinenostrum From Bahamas, joined Jul 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18160 times:

Since IB merged with BA their future looks like a hell. Cutting most of its short-haul routes, reducing their long haul ancient a/c and thousands of job cuts. After the merger, service remains as horrible as before and ancient looking cabins (even in brand new A346s).

Thanks to no competition, they were only good with its Latin American routes, but aren't even good at that anymore. This winter AF offered 10x 77W to HAV and KL offered 3x MD11 (6 extra frequencies in total compared to last year's AF daily), SU offered 5x (compared to last winter's 3x), VS added an extra frequency to HAV as well.


User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18150 times:

I have a hard time believing there isn't enough volume to make these flights profitable.

Is this the case of having aircraft that are perhaps too many premium seats on their long haul aircraft? Perhaps a small sub fleet of less premium heavy aircraft would enable them to be profitable on these markets.


User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18091 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
Is this the case of having aircraft that are perhaps too many premium seats on their long haul aircraft? Perhaps a small sub fleet of less premium heavy aircraft would enable them to be profitable on these markets.

They already converted 7 A340s to high density configuration for that destinations. 24J+265Y instead of 36J+218Y. Anyway, I have read that they are planning to end PTY, GUA, SJU and SSA too. Nothing about SJO thought...

I have also read that they are thinking about ending MVD, LAX, GIG and LAD. But nothing is sure as the sources are not trustful.



So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18094 times:

If they cut the San José route, that's really bad for people that live in Costa Rica - it's the only direct flight they have to Europe and to go via the USA they would need a visa (which most people can't easily get).

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 18044 times:
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Quoting MFC (Reply 4):
Anyway, I have read that they are planning to end PTY, GUA, SJU and SSA too.

IB does not serve SSA.

Quoting MFC (Reply 4):
I have also read that they are thinking about ending MVD, LAX, GIG and LAD. But nothing is sure as the sources are not trustful.

Interestingly, it has been mentioned that LATAM is interested in launching GIG-MAD...


User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 18011 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
IB does not serve SSA.

Sorry, I meant SAL, San Salvador. I mess up between that two cities often.



So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 18011 times:

Wow! Of those three the only market which doesn't have heavy demand to Europe would be SDQ. But HAV and SJO?

Quoting nostrum (Reply 2):
Thanks to no competition, they were only good with its Latin American routes, but aren't even good at that anymore. This winter AF offered 10x 77W to HAV and KL offered 3x MD11 (6 extra frequencies in total compared to last year's AF daily), SU offered 5x (compared to last winter's 3x), VS added an extra frequency to HAV as well.

The only competitors that IB have on TATL that have inferior service to them are AR and AA. Every other airline offers a much superior product than Iberia on every market they serve. It's kinda sad, 10 years ago they dictated the market.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17980 times:

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 5):
If they cut the San José route, that's really bad for people that live in Costa Rica

I don't think they are ending SJO. Iberia CEO said they want to keep all destinations to 7-14 flights a week. Iberia flies daily to SJO, so it isn't on the list. Anyway, this is pure speculation, I thought PTY was profitable and it seems not.



So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2163 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17970 times:

Quoting nostrum (Reply 2):

Since IB merged with BA their future looks like a hell. Cutting most of its short-haul routes, reducing their long haul ancient a/c and thousands of job cuts. After the merger, service remains as horrible as before and ancient looking cabins (even in brand new A346s).

It's not entirely related to the merger. Spain's economy is in dire straights. Also, IB has no one but itself to blame if their Latin American routes are turning out to be a disaster; they have long enjoyed many competitive advantages (geography of the MAD hub, little to no competition, ethnic ties, OneWorld connections, etc) to sustain their long-haul network. Put simply, the airline lost its way and its brand has suffered a a result.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinepolot From United States of America, joined exactly 3 years ago today! , 2127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17896 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
Wow! Of those three the only market which doesn't have heavy demand to Europe would be SDQ. But HAV and SJO?

But how much of that traffic is actually high(er) yielding business traffic versus VFR and tourists? (Note I am legitimately asking, not trying to make a point)


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17779 times:

Quoting nostrum (Reply 2):
After the merger, service remains as horrible as before and ancient looking cabins (even in brand new A346s).

That's true. Some people, including myself, believed that after the merger IB's customer service and their passenger experience would improve, but alas, this was not the case.


.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
I have a hard time believing there isn't enough volume to make these flights profitable.

I think it's not a matter of volume, but a matter of yields.



.

Quoting MFC (Reply 4):
I have read that they are planning to end PTY, GUA, SJU and SSA too. Nothing about SJO thought...
I have also read that they are thinking about ending MVD, LAX, GIG and LAD. But nothing is sure as the sources are
not trustful.

I have a hard time believing they would end Panama City and San José as they're the richest cities in Central America with a decent premium demand.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 17705 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Thread starter):
San José
Quoting MFC (Reply 4):
Nothing about SJO thought...
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 5):
If they cut the San José route, that's really bad for people that live in Costa Rica
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
SJO?
Quoting MFC (Reply 9):
Iberia flies daily to SJO, so it isn't on the list.

It's SJU that has been mentioned, not SJO. Someone must have mixed the codes when writing that report.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 12):
I have a hard time believing they would end Panama City and San José as they're the richest cities in Central America with a decent premium demand.

Well...actually, the "star" destination for Iberia in Central America (according to IB) has always been GUA (largest city in Central America by far). It has been served without interruption since 1971. San José has only gained more traffic due to leisure (CR has become the most important touristic destination in Central America) as well as connections to MGA, TGU, SAP, end even SAL and GUA, and this seems to be what will save them from being slashed off from Iberia's network while GUA, PTY and SAL will probably be axed.

Premium demand in Central American routes has never been very good.

[Edited 2012-11-22 16:39:33]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11614 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 17668 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 1):
IB made a huge mistake not ordering A330s 5-6 years ago and now they're paying the price of having to operate their TATL routes with some of the least efficient aircraft there are for these routes.

That would have been a bad plan - consider the particulars of their hub at MAD. It's only recently that the A333 has caught the A343 up in terms of economics and performance from hot/high airports, which is why they went with the four engine types in the first place. An A332 could have been used, but that would have been a drop in capacity and at the time Spain's economy wasn't in melt-down.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 580 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 17627 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
It's SJU and NOT SJO that has been mentioned.

Well, that makes sense. Thanks for correcting the news article.

[Edited 2012-11-22 16:39:36]


JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 17544 times:
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Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 12):
That's true. Some people, including myself, believed that after the merger IB's customer service and their passenger experience would improve, but alas, this was not the case.

I think many of us thought we would see IAG go in there and do an overhaul to IB's hard and soft products, including their inconsistent cabin crews. Clearly this has happened. Perhaps they have put off doing anything until they decide what they were going to have to do with a/c and routes first before committing millions of euros to fix their ancient products.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 14):
That would have been a bad plan - consider the particulars of their hub at MAD. It's only recently that the A333 has caught the A343 up in terms of economics and performance from hot/high airports, which is why they went with the four engine types in the first place. An A332 could have been used, but that would have been a drop in capacity and at the time Spain's economy wasn't in melt-down.

I know it's too late now, but why didn't IB go with 767/777s instead? It would seem they would have been a good fit for the international flying they do,.

Thoughts about IAG adding 777/787s to the IB fleet?


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 17501 times:
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Well, how are load factors on SJO? Last time I saw, in April, the whole departures lounge at Gate 2 was completely full. I was greatly encouraged to see this. It was really stunning seeing an IB 346 given that I live in HKG. The only 346 coming this way is VS.


J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 17469 times:

I hear GUA is doing excellent. I doubt it will be axed. GUA is the largest city in Central America. I also doubt SJO will be axed as SJO is a huge turist destination. Maybe not SJO but Costa Rica as a country


avi8
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6133 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 17389 times:
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Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 5):
f they cut the San José route, that's really bad for people that live in Costa Rica - it's the only direct flight they have to Europe and to go via the USA they would need a visa (which most people can't easily get).

They can always fly to MEX with AM and connect seamlessly to MAD. Same with AV at BOG.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 12):
I have a hard time believing they would end Panama City and San José as they're the richest cities in Central America with a decent premium demand.
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
Premium demand in Central American routes has never been very good.

Exactly. Those routes have always been about ethnic and VFR traffic, which tends to be the lowest yielding. Otherwise CM and TA would have already launched TATL flights. Maybe if IB configured a few A343s as economy only, high density, Central America may work.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
It's SJU that has been mentioned, not SJO. Someone must have mixed the codes when writing that report.

Oh. That makes sense. Still, SJO remains mostly a toruist market.



MGGS
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6047 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 17318 times:

The real problem lies with SAL.....GUA does well but has runway length / altitude issues so they need a triangle route. Perhaps they should move it to SAP...

Quoting MFC (Reply 4):
I have read that they are planning to end PTY, GUA, SJU and SSA too. Nothing about SJO thought...

Then why did they increase PTY last year? SJO is going nowhere...that flight does well.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 5):
If they cut the San José route, that's really bad for people that live in Costa Rica - it's the only direct flight they have to Europe and to go via the USA they would need a visa (which most people can't easily get).

o, boo hoo....they would suffer like the rest of us!  
Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 12):
I have a hard time believing they would end Panama City and San José as they're the richest cities in Central America with a decent premium demand.


Not to mention in PTY, Minister Salo would bust out the checkbook to keep them as it was him that busted out the checkbook in the first place to decouple MAD-GUA-PTY and make it dedicated. Lotta pride there.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11614 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 17310 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 16):
I know it's too late now, but why didn't IB go with 767/777s instead? It would seem they would have been a good fit for the international flying they do,.

For largely the same reason; in hot and high conditions the advantage big twins have over quads is compromised - this was especially the case when IB ordered their first A340s. Also the 767 would have been a little small. It's not such a problem if you have one or two airports in your network where a twin won't perform as well as a quad, but when it's your home airport you need to make decisions around that factor. This is also why SAA went for the A340, because JNB is considerably higher than MAD.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 17031 times:

Maybe, they should add a couple extra daily flights to MIA, and AA can add some additional flights from MIA to each of these destinations (except HAV obviously). Maybe it would even be possible to do a Joint Venture from MIA to central America and Caribbean.

User currently offlinedanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 17005 times:

Sounds to me for a great opportunity for AV to bring a A330 to SJO and cover the route .

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6133 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 16946 times:
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Quoting danimarroquin (Reply 23):
Sounds to me for a great opportunity for AV to bring a A330 to SJO and cover the route .

Exactly. Same good opportunity for AM, but how are the bilaterals structured for this?



MGGS
25 PHX787 : It's a combination: If this was Spain, during their economic boom, we wouldn't be talking about this. Spain has 50%-something unemployment, and these
26 NASCARAirforce : Maybe they need to do what they did back in the 1990s when IB had the hub at MIA. I believe IB used to base 2-3 MD-87s at MIA and bring in an extra A3
27 danimarroquin : well I think more for AV , since TA will disappear and become AV and SJO is the new central America connection center for Star alliance , sounds like
28 RAGAZZO777 : Not gonna work. You do remember that Latin Americans need a regular US Visa just to transit any US airport, right ? As for basing a single A330 at SJ
29 fraapproach : I flew MAD-SJO-MAD in March / April this year on A 346. Inbound I got upgraded to business and next to me was the only empty seat on the whole plane.
30 santos : I read online that Iberia says only 8 of 24 long-haul routes and 2 of 40 domestic routes are profitable. If this is true, some routes will have to be
31 summa767 : First of all, the original article does NOT mention SJO as being one of the destinations to be cut: It mentions SJU. Second of all, AV has no spare a
32 LAXintl : Considering IAG just 2-weeks ago stated they will remove 25 aircraft from IB this winter including 5 long-haul birds, its only natural the bottom perf
33 LH506 : I guess another reason is that IB has more and more competition on its routes compared to a couple of years ago: Just some examples of airlines adding
34 r2rho : The A340's are not the reason, despite a.net myths - high labor costs (remaining internal structures from the government-monopoly days, low productivi
35 migair54 : IB dig their on grave during all this years offering far more inferior product and ignoring the paxs, so now they will pay the consequences, I used to
36 AF086 : BA wasn't a new carrier. They have been serving GIG continously for decades. The change made a few years ago was, like EZE, the change to a dedicated
37 yellowtail : And what do they do with the aircraft after this run.....untilization of 5 hours per day jsut won't cut it. I used to to see the IB MD sit on the tar
38 airbazar : That's all true but for much older variants. Not for 2006-2007 and newer A333s. They desperately need A333's now and have needed them for about 5 yea
39 LH506 : I always thought that BA came back to GIG two or three years ago, after having it discontinued for many years. They were one of the first to return d
40 danimarroquin : My friend read the article well ..... is SJO " costa rica " not SJU !!!!! TA's first N279AV A330 is already at LIM with the SA colors and getting rea
41 peterinlisbon : Sure, but those options both add 3 hours of flying time and Avianca / Mexican don't offer many destinations in Europe (Iberia can get you almost anyw
42 AF086 : I am 100% sure. BA serves GIG continously for decades since British Caledonian, actually IIRC. Until a few years ago BA flew LHR-GRU-GIG 3x weekly an
43 danimarroquin : well the idea is that if IB decides to leave SJO , AV would transfer one of the A330s to SJO like it did with LIM . since TA name will go away and be
44 Post contains links MFC : Iberia is working on improving their inflight and ground service. A346s will start to be retrofitted on December with new Business Plus and Economy (w
45 LAXintl : Well at the November 9th meeting when the IB transformation plan was revealed one of the two bullet point challenges in the longhaul network listed i
46 AA767400 : Which is weird because that would mean they want to eliminate all their Caribbean services. However - unlike HAV/SDQ, SJU has no other direct flights
47 Post contains images PlymSpotter : It was more recently than that according to my sources. The A333 has been suitable for some routes for a while but until recent upgrades (aside of HG
48 regupilot : Being from Colombia, I am sure you do read Spanish well. In this copy paste, it mentions SAN JUAN PUERTO RICO way too clearly. I'm not sure if this i
49 miaskies : In essence IB does not need SJU anymore. Perhaps in the stronger days of the massive AA/AE hub operation at SJU it worked but not anymore. IB can eas
50 AR385 : Yes, it is inconvenient, but I was responding to this: If you don´t have a VISA for the US, then what do you do? Now, can someone clear up once and
51 Post contains images LH506 : That's it. They started the nonstop again
52 Post contains links summa767 : There is nothing official in any case. Both destinations still appear on Amadeus. However, it makes sense that it would be SJU and *not* SJO for 2 re
53 airbazar : I don't know the delivery dates of the different variants but I do know this: US has been flying MAD-PHL with A333's since 2003. Another spanish carr
54 BommerJan : Iberia.... on my last IB flight (MAD-DUS) flight attendants put their feet on the galley counter and read the papers.....
55 JAAlbert : Good heavens, where will they fly to once all these cities are axed? It is like IB is withdrawing from Central and So. America completely! It doesn't
56 Post contains images PlymSpotter : That is not what I am saying. As I said, the A333 has been capable of flying certain routes for a while, which I implied to mean since before 2006-7.
57 SCL767 : Oh please, we know IB will not be happy to see LAN's 787s at MAD. The fact of the matter is that pax will choose to fly on the airline that gives the
58 AA767400 : I agree on many things you mentioned. Especially Spaniards not knowing about Puerto Rico, and advertising the Dominican Republic. Not to mention ther
59 laca773 : I was thinking the same thing, Dan, however, IB could've made changes long ago regarding their longhaul fleet and chose not to do so. The bottom line
60 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Ultimately the aircraft are not the problem, and generally nor are Iberia's longhaul services. Long ago there was even less choice than now, quads we
61 SJOtoLIR : Attention: The press release in Spanish talks about San Juan, Puerto Rico (SJU), not San Jose, Costa Rica (SJO). . Source, please. The dedicated IB MA
62 OB1504 : As mentioned earlier, this would not be feasible due to the United States requiring visas even for passengers who are transiting between internationa
63 LJ : KLM would be very pleased if they would do this (though I seriously that it). Only problem for KLM will be how to increase capacity to PTY as they'll
64 SCL767 : SCL could be a tag from EZE as well when EK and QR decide to operate non-stop to EZE. Also, Chile just signed a full Open Skies treaty with Qatar.
65 avion660 : True enough..LAN will likely have lower costs but will they reduce fares accordingly? Whenever I check there's never much difference between IB and L
66 SCL767 : LAN hasn't loaded the 787 flights on the SCL-MAD-FRA route as yet. However, the switch over to the 787 will occur sometime in March. As a reference,
67 SCQ83 : There are very few cultural, economical and tourism ties between Puerto Rico and Spain/Europe, despite the fact that it is a former Spanish colony an
68 Post contains images airbazar : I'm not so sure of that. IB has been losing money for 5 years. The current Spanish economic situation is just the latest excuse for the losses. Their
69 Post contains links SCQ83 : According to the Spanish newspaper "La Razon" (not the most reliable newspaper though http://www.larazon.es/noticia/9022-i...ilotos-y-cierra-otras-sei
70 luckyone : I don't know how long they had served it in the past, but Iberia's recent stay at SJU only began in 2010. They had been absent for several years befo
71 LJ : Why would LAN? Lower operating cost at existing prices will mean higher margins and thus higher profits for the same passenger. It's not that LAN is
72 MFC : That's not true. Iberia has been flying to SJU before 2010. I invite you to do a search on the photo database. It has been served by the 343, 346 and
73 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Knowing what to do and always being able to do it are, unfortunately, two different things when you factor in the militant unions. It has been Iberia
74 sweair : IB would need a fleet of 789s, but that backlog i scary!
75 luckyone : My apologies. It seems I had my facts crossed. Thanks!
76 avion660 : Sadly, I agree with you. If IB is your main competition, and you can get away with a higher margin and keep capturing the pax I wouldn't either.[Edit
77 yellowtail : GUA is entirely capable of sustaining flights to MAD on its own. IB would dearly love to do GUA n/s both ways, but it is the airport altitude and run
78 SJOtoLIR : I don't dispute if GUA is capable to sustain flights heading to Madrid on its own. In my view and speaking solely about the Central American scenario
79 EddieDude : Correct, but that would imply a lot of backtracking. I know that for someone without a U.S. visa, that might be one of the only ways to do it, but I
80 Post contains links Viscount724 : That's not what Iberia's CEO is saying. He says ALL their markets are now unprofitable. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...2ee02c5462502867894523
81 Post contains images regupilot : Right, Right, Right & Right. Couldn't have said it better. Thing is, Iberia comes and goes. I don't recall being a yearlong without them but, it
82 AA767400 : As been mentioned before - IB's stay did not begin the other day. They've been serving the market continuously from inception. It was however routed
83 Post contains images PlymSpotter : That's not quite the full picture according to IAG. Long-haul is still predominantly profitable, but there are routes making heavy losses which has d
84 SCQ83 : Umm I am afraid your argument is untenable. Havana itself is a very popular destination for Europeans... they are looking for good weather, history a
85 2travel2know2 : IB hub in MIA won't work as long as the U.S. requires hub passengers U.S. visas. Now that IB is code-sharing w/CM, IB could well fly its biggest A340
86 Post contains images AA767400 : My point is justifiable. Cuba offers a more economical holiday destination for Europeans than PR does. Of course Cuba has a rich culture, and history
87 Post contains links and images r2rho : We might as well start an official "IB Route Cutting Thread", as there is a new annoucement on a near weekly basis... IB/I2 Suspends AMS, ARN, TXL (by
88 r2rho : They may be part of the problem in the case of North/Central America (not deep South America routes for which IB uses the full payload-range capabili
89 jfk777 : Iberia does not have a responsability to fly to every country in Latin America, it has a responsability to fly profitably. IF IB only makes money in
90 yellowtail : Remember when UA gave up their MIA hub to LatAmerica. THey are still kicking themselves over that one.
91 airbazar : He also said this which I find more telling: Sanchez-Lozano said "the Spanish and European economic crisis has impacted on Iberia, but its problems a
92 IrishAyes : They're kicking themselves because it has become a goldmine for AA. That doesn't mean that it was a mistake to drop the hub. Ultimately, it was fight
93 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I know you keep saying this, but that view is only your opinion and not one which can be corroborated by my understanding of the issue or those I kno
94 SJOtoLIR : I think the 340 is a suitable plane for Central America on IB. Based on the Great Circle Mapper, the path on IB SJO-MAD is larger than IB MAD-CCS, IB
95 Post contains links MFC : It's official now: http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/g...f8d257b310VgnVCM1000005ffe15acRCRD They are canceling touristic routes: ATH, IST, CAI, SDQ,
96 JU068 : Iberia flies daily in summer while Aegean operates 4 weekly flights. I am sure they will increase to at least a daily flight unless Iberia Express la
97 MFC : During Summer Iberia operated two flights some days, not sure if it was double daily. I don't know if Iberia Express will be able to operate to ATH, b
98 JU068 : I am not sure about Madrid but I think Iberia operated double daily flights from Barcelona. Shame Vueling can't operate this route, it would be a per
99 laca773 : Perhaps, but IB has a big problem of not making any money. The A340 is a gas guzzler and far from being efficient in this day and age. It seems they
100 EddieDude : Interesting. I wonder if MAD-MEX will be double-daily or whether they are planning another destination such as MTY or GDL. I also wonder what IB will
101 anstar : I wonder if the 343's are running on better economics than the 346's? VS seem to be getting rid of 346's ahead of 343's.
102 LHRFlyer : It seems to have a lot of similarity with BA's "Future Size and Shape" initiative from ten years ago with inefficient long-haul routes being dropped
103 migair54 : Big problem for the touristic long haul destinations are the A340´s, but i was expecting to see the A333 to HAV for example like UX does or Iberworld
104 LJ : Didn't they intended to reduce the number of long haul aircraft by 5? Thus how to increase capacity when you reduce the number of aircraft. Moreover,
105 LJ : Which is incorrect as proven by AF who flew A319s to SSG and NKC (dedicated service). LH/LX/SN and AF/KL fly widebodies becasue they can fill it and
106 AR385 : A MAD-MTY-MAD coneection is long overdue. It´s a good mix of tourist and business traffic. I´m not sure if a tag on to GDL might work or GDL could
107 EddieDude : I know Volaris interlines or will do so with Southwest Airlines, but traditionally LCCs do not interline and much less codeshare... not among themsel
108 2travel2know2 : If IB leaves MVD too, since Air Europa will be flying MAD-HAV and MAD-SDQ on behalf of IB, Could that same Air Europa fly MAD-MVD non-stop or MAD-VCP-
109 MFC : Air Europa won't operate MAD-HAV and MAD-SDQ on behalf of IB, they have been operating that routes for a long time. Iberia mentioned Air Europa in the
110 LJ : Moreover, UX is in Skyteam and does its best to compete with IB. They don't need IB and probably don't want toi help them either. MAD-VVI is twice we
111 EddieDude : 2travel2know2 was proposing a new flight by UX either nonstop to MVD or via Viracopos, Brazil, not via Santa Cruz, Bolivia. I don't think that would
112 Post contains images airbazar : Maybe. But IB did finally order the 235t A333 last year while the 233t version has been available since 2003. Is a mere 2 tons really that significan
113 Post contains images MFC : One of the reasons Iberia might not have ordered A330s before is that pilots didn't want to fly them across the Atlantic. I know it makes no sense, bu
114 Post contains images r2rho : This statement is in direct contradiction with their fleet plan (shrinking an already stretched-thin fleet by 5 aircraft, A333's only replacing one-b
115 migair54 : The mistake is the management, pilots will fly the plane you buy for them, since when pilots can decide to fly or not a type of plane?? it they don´
116 airbazar : I find this to be a much more plausible reason. We have seen at many other airlines the influence that pilot unions have in fleet planning. It's both
117 SCQ83 : They are citing them on the press release because they are rebooking direct flights with those companies if possible (i.e. if you have a MAD-IST with
118 MFC : I don't think anybody booked that flight, Iberia flight from CAI arrived in MAD at 3AM, not very convenient I guess. CAI is mainly a point to point d
119 LipeGIG : My doubt is if VCP would create such demand. I don't see a lot of Spanish business around Campinas area. They are mostly in Rio de Janeiro and São P
120 Post contains images SCQ83 : That was just a sample, but I have flown CAI-MAD a few times myself with IB (also with MS) and I have crossed a few people (mostly Egyptian families)
121 migair54 : So IMO this is another point that makes CAI an unprofitable flight, only point to point and terrible schedule for connecting pax. If we add the spani
122 SCQ83 : Terminal 3 (MS and Star) is a new and "nice" (however I think its layout is kind of messy), T1 (where IB is now) is the previous MS/Star terminal tha
123 2travel2know2 : I mentioned VCP because: it's so hard to get premium slots @ GRU and flying to VCP still can be disguised as flying to Great Sâo Paulo, also a possi
124 LipeGIG : Understood ! The point of VCP-MVD i got, and agreed. But São Paulo was the only one market that got enough to replace PU operations (with an extra J
125 trinxat : haha and when they pulled out of BCN they did it because of "non profitable operations" So IB's benchmark in terms of cabin equipment is Alitalia? Se
126 MFC : Installing the same seat as Alitalia doesn't mean that. If you buy the same car as your neighbor is because he is your benchmark or because you also
127 SCQ83 : I think that AZ is probably a very good benchmark for IB... in fact part of IB's new management comes from there. Both airlines used to be quite simi
128 LJ : I though it was a mistake as there is no way UX can get another destiantion online given their current fleet doesn't open possibilities. Moreover the
129 SCQ83 : So can you name a better airline to compare to Iberia? Alitalia and Iberia's problems were very much a product of their job market regulations, inter
130 EddieDude : Yes, I agree. I do not think we will see IB or UX flying to VCP. I do not think UX will pick MVD up. If any, we will see IB or UX codesharing on Urug
131 SCL767 : Has LAN applied for SCL-GIG-MAD as yet? Certainly not IB. IB has stated that flights to Montevideo will be offered, "via other Iberia destinations in
132 Viscount724 : I expect many Spanish passengers like a glass or two of wine with their meal, and aren't alcoholic drinks still free on IB?. MS doesn't serve alcohol
133 juanchito : Yes they have 12 on order. Juanchito
134 SCQ83 : Far from setting MS as any standard of quality, I would rather have better pitch (esp. in Economy, which is quite generous in MS' mid-haul... and not
135 LipeGIG : Not yet ! Considering their partnerships, i don't expect them to have that. Nowadays the best options are EZE and GRU. GIG is not a good option for M
136 SJOtoLIR : Boliviana de Aviacion has just started the MAD-VVI sector as 4x weekly with 332. The first flight began on December 07th. Regards.
137 Post contains links r2rho : Journalists neet to do a bit more investigation and less "re-tweeting"... and UX clearly needs to increase public awareness...Then again: Indeed they
138 Post contains links PDPsol : That is not what Flightglobal reported earlier this week: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-madrid-montevideo-flights-380096/ "The flights will
139 LJ : Does this mean PUJ is no longer nonstop? Seems to me they'll be doing a daily MAD-SDQ-PUJ-SDQ-MAD rotation. If not, where will they get the aircraft
140 LipeGIG : Thanks for sharing. This brings a different color to their operation and a better perspective. Without IB, any new player trying MVD-MAD would have a
141 EddieDude : Wow, that seems to me like a lot of capacity to the D.R. I suppose UX would not do this if there were not sufficient demand. All the best to UX. I ag
142 Post contains images PlymSpotter : It would appear so, at least in part. I agree regarding the A332s - that would have been ideal for route opening/long and thin from MAD and as a work
143 SJOtoLIR : UX MAD-HAV will also increase their services in Cuba as it goes from 7x to 11x weekly. This sector was attended by IB MAD-HAV 7x weekly. IberWorld fl
144 r2rho : I was only quoting the article, which doesn't go into specifics about non-stops or rotations. I agree that's a lot of frequency for the limited UX fl
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