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Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?  
User currently offlineAlaskaMVP From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 150 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2817 times:

Obviously many airlines fly twins (757, 767, 737, etc) to Hawaii. But if you look at http://gc.kls2.com, which shows great circle routes, along with ETOPs restrictions, it indicates that you need 180 minute ETOPs to make it in a twin.

Is that true? I thought 180 minutes ETOPs was difficult to do, do all airlines flying twins to Hawaii meet the 180 minute ETOPS or is there a special exemption?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2699 times:


Yeah I guess so AlaskaMVP, like DL flies 764s and other variants there, I think. Maybe AA and UA as well, not sure (NW and HA still stick with their DC-10s, apparently).

ETOPS-180 not such a big deal now , for the big birds (though of course more expensive). And Boeing even pushing for 207, so Midway island won't have to be supported the way it is, as a Pacific route alternate.

But that`s just for passenger ops. Check out those pics of "I'iwi", HA's new 717s with the extra ferry tanks stuck in for the trip over. I don`t think those were 180-certified, just for the trip over!


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Hello all!

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's ETOPS?
...and what's O&D?

Thanks,

regards, BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineHypermike From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

ETOPS - Extended Twin-engine OPerationS

It basically means that a two-engined plane can fly over a big mass over water. It was originally meant for trans-Atlantic flights.


User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

O & D

Origination point (airport) and destination (airport)


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2641 times:


Thanks, Hypermike.

Cheers,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

Don't forget Aloha's 737-700s that fly to Seattle and Oakland; they have 180 min ETOPS as well.


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineAloha 737-200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Aloha 737-700!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

'nuff said.


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

NW legally could not fly their 757s to Hawaii. Not until they achieve ETOPS certification.


I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

twin planes flown to HNL/OGG/KOA

AQ - 737-700
TW- 767-300/757-200er
AA - 767-300(er)
DL - 767-400
UA - 767/757/777
CO - 737-800 (under CO Micro.)
Air Fiji 737-800
HA - 767-300 (coming soon)
Most Asian carriers use 747-400s or DC-10s
CO/NW use DC-10s/747s(NW on Asian Routes)
UA flies 747s (again asian routes)

Just a small correction, AQ flies to Orange County (SNA), Las Vegas, and Oakland.

To answer the other question. All ETOPS operators need a certificate to fly 180 min ETOPS. AQ went through the process, and HA is currently going through the process. It's not that it cannot be done in a HA 767, it's that there must be a paper trail. HA requested to do "out of the box" 180 min ETOPS with their new 767s. That's great! the only problem is that there is no way to prove on a paper trail that HA has done ETOPS. It's really small things like parts, maintenance, and dispatch, not just crews.

Midway does have scheduled AQ 737 serivce....If you ever want a very expensive fishing trip (though you can catch some AWESOME marine life), You can fly to midway and not have to deal with the 4 million other people in Honolulu.


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

Don't forget TZ's 757 service from MDW via PHX.


I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Just a couple additions,
Korean: B-777-300
American: B-757-200
Air New Zealand: B-767-200
Air Canada: B-767-200
Canada 3000: A-330



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

Sort of off topic, but what is the highest ETOPS rating an aircraft can have?

User currently offlineBuff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

207 minutes - B777. Canada 3000 also has 180 minute ETOPS (uninterrupted for many years) for the B757, in addition to the A330's.

Best Regards,

Buff


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2490 times:

ETOPS:

Engines Turn Or People Swim! lol


User currently offlineAC826 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 94 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2488 times:

WHy do airlines have to get their ETOPS certificate themselves? Isn't it supposed to be Boeing who needs to get the cert?. I just don't get it~

User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2472 times:

Thanks for the additions!

Boeing builds airplanes, not airlines.

Boeing actually builds airframes. They don't build engines they install what the customer choses. They don't fly airlplanes in revenue service (just research).

All Boeing can do is build an airplane to a certain specification. Say the airline wants an ETOPS aircraft. Boeing will build the plane to that level then deliver the plane to the customer. It is now the customers responsibility to maintain that plane. Dispatch, maintenance, pilots, flight attendants.

Boeing can install an area for a liftraft in the overhead bins, but it is the airline who is responsible to make sure that life raft is in its place before each flight.

If you don't really understand, read Airframe by Michael Crichton. It gives a great account of an airframe manufacturer that parallels McDonnell Douglas (or so it is rumored).

does that help?


User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Boeing nut: That's problably the correct meaning for it, LOL

Mlsrar: Who's TZ? I live by MDW (assuming you're talking about Chicago Midway) and the only 757s I see there are ATA's and National's.


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

TZ is American Trans Air's ICAO code.


I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Thanks  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineHa2vegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Someone else posted this a while ago...I got a kick out of it:

E T O P S = Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim.

 Laugh out loud


User currently offlineWillL From Australia, joined May 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

also Qantas fly the 767-300 to HNL from Sydney

User currently offlineNotar520AC From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Ya know, Hawaiian just started a 717 route to the islands!


BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
User currently offlineWillL From Australia, joined May 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

also Qantas fly the 767-300 to HNL from Sydney

User currently offlineLahaina From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Air New Zealand flies 767-300 ERs to HNL, not 767-200ERs. HA flies the B717 interisland only.

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