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German States Pushing To Abolish Aviation Tax  
User currently offlinebavair From Germany, joined Jul 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5255 times:

I haven't seen this anywhere, please delete if its been previously posted.

The state of Bavaria has initiated a motion within the Bundesrat (roughly equivalent to the Upper House in the US) to abolish the controversial aviation tax. Several other states have backed this motion. They have now requested for the government to pass a law to abolish this tax which has been costing airlines between 7.5-42 Euros per passenger which sums up to quite a significant burden.

Source

I think this would definitely be a step in the right direction to help Lufthansa and Air Berlin get back on their feet. I think the tax has really placed these two in particular at an unfair disadvantage. What do you think?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4070 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 5205 times:

If the tax is abolished the UAE will be really disappointed...... They have been counting on the German government to help their business.


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User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2794 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5098 times:
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I guess it is good that this time around it is the federal states that demands its abolishment, and not only the airlines.

User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

Quoting bavair (Thread starter):
I think this would definitely be a step in the right direction to help Lufthansa and Air Berlin get back on their feet. I think the tax has really placed these two in particular at an unfair disadvantage. What do you think?

Why does the tax adversely effect LH and AB? Don't EK/EY et al. all have to pay it too?


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2470 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Besides the UK, which other EU countries have a departure/arrival tax? Hopefully this will put some pressure on the UK.


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User currently offlineskyhawkmatthew From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Why does the tax adversely effect LH and AB? Don't EK/EY et al. all have to pay it too?

Because just about all of LH and AB's flights originate or terminate in Germany, and the vast majority of every other airline's flights don't.



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User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4947 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):

Ireland has one, but at 3 euro flat fee, its almost insignificant.

The Netherlands scrapped theirs, as I believe did Denmark.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinebavair From Germany, joined Jul 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Quoting bavair (Thread starter):
I think this would definitely be a step in the right direction to help Lufthansa and Air Berlin get back on their feet. I think the tax has really placed these two in particular at an unfair disadvantage. What do you think?

Why does the tax adversely effect LH and AB? Don't EK/EY et al. all have to pay it too?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand: For example, for Long Haul flights, LH and AB would have to pay 42 Euros per passenger, while the likes of BA and KL would only pay 7 Euros since they are operating a short haul flight from Germany before transferring to a long haul flight outside of Germany. At the same time, if a passenger is travelling from the US to India for example, LH would have to pay the tax while any airline that has its hub outside of Germany wouldn't have to. This means that in the end LH is facing an additional cost , potentially pushing business to the likes of EK.


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Did not know that Air Berlin has such a big lobby in German politics  
They complained the loudest about the aviation tax.....good for them.........



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User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

I thought these taxes were not payable by transit passengers. Certainly that is the case in the UK where our APD is not payable when passengers are in transit and holding a through ticket. For example, a passenger flying AMS-LHR-JFK would not pay APD and neither would someone flying IST-LHR-HKG.

APD is only payable if the passenger breaks his or her journey in London.

Isn't that the case too in Germany ?


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

That is what politicians do not understand, that the business is not focused on Germany but through the hub system world wide.

Same with the ETS , all this can only be introduced on a world wide scale and even then, certain countries would find a way to compensate.

While here we have to go and follow the rules, i.e. political institutions, the main competetion is in countries where the owner of the airline also owns the country, runs the airports and the licensing board.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

When countries like Germany introduced these taxes Emirates argued against them partly because they didn't take into account differences between aircraft fuel use efficiencies and emission levels but also because ultimately they impose additional costs on passengers.

While Emirates might benefit in that they are taking passengers as far as DXB, compared to LH who would face higher taxes as they fly further going East (quite apart from domestic routes), they were still disadvantaged compared to TK. But EK have argued that for every 10% increase in fares there is a fall of 15% in passengers flying.

Those figures may be elastic, but I doubt that EK wants to simply have a larger slice of a smaller cake. To fill all their aircraft a larger cake needs to be baked. Punitive taxes on airlines don't help.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1762 times:

I'll believe it when it happens, but it is a good thing that there is finally a political debate about this unilaterally and arbitrarily imposed tax. It is a pity that with all the ideological/religious debate around ETS, these taxes which currently have a higher effective impact have not gotten much public attention.

Even more than the airlines, this tax has been really killing smaller regional airports in Germany, most of them having lost passengers in the past years. Among the German airlines, AB having more p2p and less hub operations, is more affected than LH, but LH in turn is made less competitive than other hub operators. German domestic flights are particularly hit because the tax is applied twice (once per departure).

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 9):
I thought these taxes were not payable by transit passengers. Certainly that is the case in the UK where our APD is not payable when passengers are in transit and holding a through ticket.

The whole setup is rather confusing, but my interpretation (and LH booking website) is that JFK-FRA-SIN indeed does not pay tax, but HAM-FRA-SIN pays 42EUR. HAM-CDG-SIN pays 8EUR (for the HAM-CDG sector)

Quoting incitatus (Reply 1):
If the tax is abolished the UAE will be really disappointed.

  


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
but HAM-FRA-SIN pays 42EUR. HAM-CDG-SIN pays 8EUR (for the HAM-CDG sector)

which is a clear dis-advantage for German carriers. The biggest winner of this stupid tax are European hub carriers including TK



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
The whole setup is rather confusing, but my interpretation (and LH booking website) is that JFK-FRA-SIN indeed does not pay tax, but HAM-FRA-SIN pays 42EUR. HAM-CDG-SIN pays 8EUR (for the HAM-CDG sector)

Thank you for the explanation. It does seem silly that a domestic passenger (from a German airport) who transfers at a German hub must pay more tax than he or she would if using a foreign hub.

In the UK, as I noted above, the APD rate is based on the traveller's final destination. So if I fly LHR-FRA-SIN then I must pay the same APD as if I fly LHR-SIN.

The reason for this is simple. If the UK government charged the APD to the transfer point then many people would not book direct long-haul flights from the UK because APD is very costly.

For example, the APD for a business class ticket from LHR to FRA is GBP26. The APD for LHR-SIN or LHR-FRA-SIN for business class is a GBP184.


http://www.abta.com/about/lobbying_a...ernment_affairs/air_passenger_duty


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