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QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?  
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 599 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12547 times:

QF 7 to DFW is not operating today, and also did not operate last Wednesday (11/21). Is there a reason this flight has seen two cancellations in 6 days? Is the six strong 744/ER fleet being stretched thin? Or are other reasons at play here and it is just a coincidence to have the recent cancels? Just curious, thanks.

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12126 times:

I'm surprised no one has any idea..?

How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12067 times:

About 75% LF for Sept based on numbers put out by the airport.

http://tinyurl.com/dfwts12


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12060 times:
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Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......


User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12004 times:

I doubt that will happen.

User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11854 times:
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Quoting gdg9 (Reply 4):
I doubt that will happen.

If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11794 times:

QF has too many issues going on now. I rather have VA at SFO than QF.


John@SFO
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4264 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11776 times:

Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11721 times:
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Quoting texan (Reply 8):
Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Do you mean on the DFW-SYD flights?


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11642 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7320 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11588 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Actually, its doing very well. The 744 is not the ideal aircraft for it (a 77L would be better), but its proved to be a great decision by QF.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11574 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Or better yet, correct their error in the choice of cities and make that trek some 240 miles to the south at that other town      



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11474 times:
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Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 10):

Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.

UA mangagement is not smart enough to do so and yes they have 747-400's parked in the desert but will keep one flight per day to SYD and charge high fares and crew them with high senority and surly flight attendants-----we Bay Area people are praying for competition on this route.......


User currently offlinesfoa380 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11183 times:
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The best thing UA could do is start 787 to MEL and possibly BNE. More than likely QF will re-enter this market as it's far too big and important to ignore. VA would be an awesome addition as well.

User currently offlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11160 times:
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I could see UA cranking up 789 service in a few years from LAX and/or SFO to MEL. QF is making the best with the equipment they have available and they seem to be doing well on the route. Its a pity they didn't have the fleet planning chops to have ordered 777-300ER's or 77L's.

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6900 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11027 times:

In the past 3-4 weeks they have had chronic headwinds on return that have required 5-6 diversions in a row to AKL. I expect that is unrelated for the current cancellations but still....

User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4264 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11027 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):
Quoting texan (Reply 8):Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.
Do you mean on the DFW-SYD flights?

SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, yep. On my last flight to DFW there were 2 open seats. 3 open seats on the flight back.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10941 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 12):
Or better yet, correct their error in the choice of cities and make that trek some 240 miles to the south at that other town

Come on, IAH gets plenty of int'l stuff, leave some for us in DFW!


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10837 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

So you really think the route is "lousy" with the loads...? Please explain why the flight has gone from 4 a week to daily...? Qantas ain't dropping the route in favor of a SFO...
I would see QF return to SFO once the B789 fleet arrive but as for DFW the route without a doubt will be upgraded to A380 from 2020 when the carrier takes on the remainder of the HGW A380...

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
Quoting gdg9 (Reply 4):
I doubt that will happen.

If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Why do you continue to state SFO is a bigger market than DFW from an Alliance perspective...?!?!?

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):

QF has too many issues going on now. I rather have VA at SFO than QF.

Please explain... As far I know it QF have streamlined their operations and either dropped flights in favor of profitable routes...

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of
flights--both
ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Spot on.. Loads have been fantastic!

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Actually, its doing very well. The 744 is not the ideal aircraft for it (a 77L would be better), but its proved to be a great
decision by QF.

More than likely will be upgraded to an A380...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineipodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

Flew in from BNA-DFW last night (around 7-8pm) and saw the beautiful QF 747 at the D gates, so I guess it could be a mech. problem, since the plane is already here in Dallas? Either way, I was lucky enough to fly SYD-DFW on QF 7 in August, and would definitely hate to see it go!


God Bless America
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9916 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 2):
About 75% LF for Sept based on numbers put out by the airport.

http://tinyurl.com/dfwts12

Interesting Link. BITRE figures for August were:
DFW->BNE 5165
DFW->SYD 2641
SYD->DFW 10053

Has the market really tanked by 20% in September? Perhaps it is only counting the westbound flight, for which it seems about right, some slight growth.

FWIW, LF eastbound was about 82% in July, 89% in August

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......
Quoting EK413 (Reply 22):
So you really think the route is "lousy" with the loads...? Please explain why the flight has gone from 4 a week to daily...? Qantas ain't dropping the route in favor of a SFO...

Lighten up.

As for VA serving SYD-SFO, it seems to be an obvious move for them, but they haven't made it. One wonders why?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

Its all public info. Look at either DOT, BITRE or DFW airport stats.

While I don't have any inside info at QF, I believe the route is quite a valuable one from an alliance perspective and provides QF excellent connectivity for Central and Eastern US.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Maybe so, but its still certainly a smaller market then LAX, and also in the case of QF a dead-end route with really no beyond options.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 10):
Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.

No, and in recent years when UA has added extra frequencies during the winter peak its been from LAX.

Again LAX is the far larger US-South Pacific market, hence the flights follow the customer demand.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 24):
As for VA serving SYD-SFO, it seems to be an obvious move for them, but they haven't made it. One wonders why?

With limited fleet, VA has gone after the largest market there is to the US and focused on LAX.

Matter of fact per an airport meeting a couple months back they actually stated they wanted to increase their LAX ops (provide consistent daily service to both BNE & MEL) when the fleet allows.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9818 times:
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VA might not have the equipment to start a flight to SFO. As for the load variations on the QF route, there are always variations depending on the time of year. They would not bump it to daily if the demand and yield was not there.

User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
With limited fleet, VA has gone after the largest market there is to the US and focused on LAX.

Last I heard they were struggling to find places to send their planes. They haven't even taken delivery of their last 2 planned planes and kept their fleet to 5 instead of 7.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Matter of fact per an airport meeting a couple months back they actually stated they wanted to increase their LAX ops (provide consistent daily service to both BNE & MEL) when the fleet allows.

Hmm, Interesting. Sounds like their LAX ops are getting better financially then.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9541 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 27):
Hmm, Interesting. Sounds like their LAX ops are getting better financially then.

I get the feeling VA is keen on eventually expanding frequencies to help build on their partnership with Delta and Virgin America.
I think they realize as they seek to drive more premium travelers and to lessen reliance on backpack and tourist from both ends of the Pacific they will need to further build frequency here beyond the current 13x weekly.

So while SFO could be intriguing for VA with a VX tie-in, they already have that at LAX, plus the bonus of Delta relationship, and more importantly the fact that LA is bigger pie to begin with.

While some might be stuck on nostalgia, I can certainly understand how under difficult conditions how QF opted to go with DFW over SFO.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 brilondon : They will not be back anytime soon as they connect with AA at LAX and at DFW, where as at SFO, there really is no Oneworld connections to be made.
26 thegeek : They're at a bit of a disadvantage against QF on MEL-LAX with their equipment. I can't see how a 77W with some restrictions can compete with an unres
27 JasonCRH : ...actually, if they make more money by NOT dumping capacity on the route, and if they have the pricing power to do so, then that actually is a VERY s
28 thegeek : I can see 2 diversions in the last 2 weeks on flightaware. No longer newsworthy, apparently. Interesting that they are going to AKL instead of NAN/NO
29 n471wn : Agree with you and my point is that is why they need some competition
30 ha763 : These are planned cancellations. A search of the weekly schedule on QF's site also shows QF7/8 not operating on Dec 24, Dec 30, and Feb 26. There pro
31 gigneil : Accurate. I will agree there is demand. But United's new (winning strategy) is capacity discipline and pricing power. They can continue to get it on
32 ZaphodB : Interesting. I took QF8 last month, J was full, W was full but there were 85 empty seats in Y. I asked the FA behind me (I was in 44A) how the loads
33 thegeek : I'm surprised they carry as much cargo on this route as they do. BITRE stats show 20.1t Aug westbound to SYD and 47.2t to BNE, with 28.5t eastbound.
34 ZaphodB : That cargo plus all the fuel doesn't do much for the takeoff or climb performance ... makes the 343 look like an olympic pole vaulter, and brought ba
35 aerorobnz : QF have a crew base and plenty of flights to get crew into AKL to operate, it also has many flights to SYD/BNE/MEL if necessary to put passengers ont
36 thegeek : Yes, a cabin crew base, but they would still need to bring in flight crew if these timed out. As you point out, this is easier in AKL than NAN/NOU.
37 Post contains links legacyins : To this date, I have not heard or read that QF has a profitable International division. The point is, QF, over the past year or so, has been getting
38 Post contains images EK413 : Yes I agree the International division hasn't been performing as well as it should be but with all the changes implemented and the accelerated retire
39 bobloblaw : SFO- SYD is not big enough for more than one daily flight except at peak periods like Christmas. The vast majority of UA's pax are connecting.
40 gdg9 : Yes, these numbers are for the westbound flight leaving DFW. I suppose I should have made that clear in the post. Thank you. I knew that was the case
41 DFWHeavy : Woah, let me get this straight. So it's being said that QF is carrying an average of 47.2 Tons (that's about 94,000 lbs) of Cargo Westbound out of DFW
42 gdg9 : DFW Airport's website curiously does not include QF in their cargo traffic numbers.
43 DFWHeavy : Looking at flight times of about 16 hours Westbound from DFW-BNE, I call complete BS on hauling 47 tons of cargo. Just not possible. It basically take
44 RyanairGuru : Are you sure about those figures? http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications...national_airline_activity_FY12.pdf If I'm reading the data from BITRE right,
45 Stitch : I'm guessing that 47.2 ton figure is for the entire payload. At MZFW (252t) the 747-400ER can fly 6250nm. Payload at MZFW is 67t, so a 47t payload wo
46 thegeek : Sorry for the confusion. Those figures were totals for the month!
47 n471wn : You are simply wrong----before Qantas quit the route they were filling a daily 747........the market is being held hostage by United's high prices an
48 thegeek : It was 5x weekly. Clearly it wasn't being "filled" at high enough yields to get Alan Joyce's attention.
49 LAXintl : You can argue over the service, but market pricing is certainly not held hostage by United. SFO-Australia fares are sold by all parties in the market
50 RyanairGuru : To be fair to the SFO crowd, QF did say when it was cut that the route was profitable. They felt, however, that DFW better fit with their strategy, a
51 thegeek : The way I remember it, they said it had been profitable but wasn't at present.
52 qf002 : QF has configured all its 744ERs since flights started, and now have far lighter seats than what they used to fly (with an F cabin and more J seats).
53 Bill142 : Like what?
54 brilondon : Which is the sad state of the airlines today and how service, quality and reliability is really not a factor, just price. So sad.
55 LAXdude1023 : They dont have to, UA flies it every day. And comparing LAX-SYD to SFO-SYD is not a good comparrison. SFO-SYD is 132 passengers a day. LAX-SYD is 483
56 legacyins : Read response 37/38
57 n471wn : I never said they were comparable---only that SFO has in the past and could easily today support more than flight per day----and where did you get th
58 LAXdude1023 : Nope thats the actual reported market size. Sorry if its not the answer you were looking for, but thats the way it is.
59 n471wn : It is bogus---no one knows actual market size as market size is a function of price---the lower the price the greater the market size.
60 thegeek : Where did you get these stats? BITRE data is: SYDSFO 17 699 in August 2012, making 285 per day/direction SYDLAX 70 357 in August 2012, making 1134 pe
61 LAXdude1023 : No, Im talking about O&D not total seat capacity. Those are the number of people starting in LA or San Francisco with a destination of Sydney eac
62 thegeek : Ok, but you have to add in people travelling to places like CBR, HBA, ADL, MEL, CNS and a portion of those travelling to BNE or OOL. At the other end
63 sfoa380 : Market size can be subjective. If a new entrant started service, the market would grow.
64 n471wn : Thank you-----at least one other poster understands that markets are all relative---to cite a number of so-called passengers in a particualr market i
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