The next 737-800 to SAS has rolled out from Boeing at Renton. LN-RGB (LN4280) will soon have its first flight and be delivered in a couple of weeks.
LN-RGC is AFAIK expected about 5 weeks later
Quoting 777ER (Thread starter): And last week another 737-700 arrived in ARN. SE-REX, a former Virgin Australia aircraft
Expected to be in service today with SK499 ARN-OSL
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 893 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11385 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1): The next 737-800 to SAS has rolled out from Boeing at Renton. LN-RGB (LN4280) will soon have its first flight and be delivered in a couple of weeks.
Anybody know the delivery schedule of SK's A320's?
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11355 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 2): Anybody know the delivery schedule of SK's A320's?
Not sure, but the first will arrive in a few weeks, with the first flight being on 22/12. Currently in ZRH.
Next one should follow within a few weeks, and is in OSR at the moment. Both ex-Indigo aircrafts.
Then is there a few questions regarding the two former Spanair aircrafts. I've seen at least one of them painted, but have no idea how much more work are needed before they're ready.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1345 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11286 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 3): Not sure, but the first will arrive in a few weeks, with the first flight being on 22/12. Currently in ZRH.
Next one should follow within a few weeks, and is in OSR at the moment. Both ex-Indigo aircrafts.
Then is there a few questions regarding the two former Spanair aircrafts. I've seen at least one of them painted, but have no idea how much more work are needed before they're ready.
Are they getting the new SAS seats or will they be fitted with the seats fitted on other SK Airbus narrowbodies?
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 893 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10957 times:
Quoting SAS767 (Reply 5): Air Canada will upgrade CPH to Airbus A333 from the start of August 2013 - nice to see that this route performs well.
As it's only for a few weeks it's probably more due to availability of aircraft rather than high demand. August might be a busy month, but September is usually a bit slow.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10638 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 6): As it's only for a few weeks it's probably more due to availability of aircraft rather than high demand. August might be a busy month, but September is usually a bit slow.
Not from what I hear and it is btw for 9 weeks - they need the additional capacity and both August and September are quite busy for Air Canada at CPH. They could for sure also have used the A333 in June and July, but this was not possible for S13...
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10130 times:
LN-BRV will be the next 737-500 to leave the SAS fleet. It was supposed to have its last flight for SAS on Saturday, but seems like it had to be in service a few more days as they had to use it to perform a few more flights
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9776 times:
Seems like SAS will increase the frequencies on the following routes from CPH during the summer months of 2013 compared to this year (in addition to the new routes)
Some minor adjustments - Alicante will now only operate with up to four flights a week. Probably due to the Vueling entry on this route. Malaga will on the other hand operate with up to daily flights iso 5x week.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3712 posts, RR: 34 Reply 20, posted (6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9439 times:
The snow at ARN is not too bad. About a decimeter today, But it is very very windy and the wind is blowing all this weeks snow across the runways.
Our flight grounded due poor braking actrion.
I was on the ramp at midnight and I had to park my van in front of the aircraft as a wind break as i could not stand up on the snowy ground in the wind.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 30, posted (6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9213 times:
Norwegian is starting two new destinations from Alicante. Umeå (UME) and Karlstad (KSD) will both be operated 1x weekly from spring 2013
Quoting downtown273 (Reply 28): How many will they have and which route will they be used on?
14 from what I can see. 12 will be leased, mainly (or all?) ex-Indigo, while the two remaining are owned by SAS and was with Spanair.
They will be based in CPH, and can be expected on most/all routes that sees MD-80/319/321 today. In addition I think they will be used on one of the daily GOT-LHR
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 893 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8821 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33): It's Emirates from the beginning of june. EK 157/158.
Thought so
Rumors already started a year ago and pointed to EK starting up in 2012. Didn't happen, so looking forward to a confirmation. Rumor: Emirates To Stockholm In 2012 (by Navigator Nov 8 2011 in Civil Aviation)
Doesn't help SQ in starting up on ARN.
[Edited 2012-12-07 03:46:48]
[Edited 2012-12-07 03:47:11]
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8714 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 35): Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 33):It's Emirates from the beginning of june. EK 157/158.
Thought so
Rumors already started a year ago and pointed to EK starting up in 2012. Didn't happen, so looking forward to a confirmation.
Rumor: Emirates To Stockholm In 2012 (by Navigator Nov 8 2011 in Civil Aviation)
Doesn't help SQ in starting up on ARN.
There is a bit more to this than what has leaked out so far. They will start 03JUN13 and everything is cleared and confirmed from Emirates in regards to all operational facilities at Arlanda.
Both OSL and ARN where in the final run this fall, but ARN took it home and an opening of OSL is not likely to happen before earliest OCT13. I guess Brussels are in there too. By all commercial means, ARN is the obvious choice as their second destination in Scandinavia.
It hardly comes as a surprise that Stockholm is launched before Oslo and it's actually about time.
I have no doubt that ARN will be a great success for Emirates. Especially with the very limited competition it will face from Stockholm.
Gulf have given away their slots at CPH for the summer season of 2013 and an announcement of their closer are expected soon. I think it in general has more to do with their general lack of performance through their whole network, rather than CPH as a single destination. From what I have heard, it's been performing surprisingly well and the actual reason for why the launch to ARN was postponed and the capacity was used to bring CPH up to daily.
Even if they reversed their suspension, they would not be able to retain their slots, as IATA's application period for S13 where over months ago and new slots are out for the airlines until final closure in the end of January.
thunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (6 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8127 times:
I read at Arlanda facebook site, that they, during Wednesday only, had cleared some
200'000 cubic meters of snow, which is about 80% of the amount for the entire last winter.
Despite that they managed to make 38% of the start and landings happen.
teme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7721 times:
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 38): I read at Arlanda facebook site, that they, during Wednesday only, had cleared some
200'000 cubic meters of snow, which is about 80% of the amount for the entire last winter.
That is a lot of snow. No wonder they had some issues with the snow.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7375 times:
OSL released their November numbers today. 3,7% increase to a total of 1.784.058 pax.
Domestic increased by 2,7% and 4,8% on the international routes.
The Numbers for OSL is actually very interesting as it could be the first time ever that OSL exceeds CPH as the largest airport in Northern Europe in terms of total amount of passengers. If CPH's growth is under 1,2%, November 2012 will be a historic month for OSL. The race is also very close for December, January and February based on the 2011/12 numbers.
However, with the past months release of passenger numbers for CPH, I'll be surprised if it will be bellow 1,2% for November.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 41, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7327 times:
g2scandinavia, you have not counted the transit passengers (as CPH do). Therefore the number of passengers at OSL was 1,788,373 in November and that equals to a growth of 3.88% from last year. In November OSL passed a mile stone - the 22 million passenger per 12 months mile stone.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7306 times:
I know, but OSL does not include transit and infants in their numbers.
I therefore think it's best to use what they are presenting even dough the numbers are actually higher.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7008 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 40): However, with the past months release of passenger numbers for CPH, I'll be surprised if it will be bellow 1,2% for November.
Close call with CPH presenting 2,2% growth for NOV. 1.799.408 pax went through the airport. Only 15.350 pax in favour of CPH for NOV. Thats the second closes month after February 2012 where the difference was only 11.513 pax.
I'm tempted to throw in the 1,1% infants and lack of transit included, but I'll let the title stay down south some month more
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 44, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7002 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 40): The Numbers for OSL is actually very interesting as it could be the first time ever that OSL exceeds CPH as the largest airport in Northern Europe in terms of total amount of passengers. If CPH's growth is under 1,2%, November 2012 will be a historic month for OSL. The race is also very close for December, January and February based on the 2011/12 numbers.
However, with the past months release of passenger numbers for CPH, I'll be surprised if it will be bellow 1,2% for November.
Close but no cigar - CPH up 2,2% in November (new monthly record):
The growth rate for the international traffic is more or less identical at CPH and OSL. OSL up 4,8% and CPH up 4,4%. However as the internal traffic at CPH is twice the size compared to OSL, the absolute numbers differs: OSL +44.000 int. pax to 869.000 and CPH +69.000 int. pax. to 1.624.000 In other words CPH increases the gap to OSL when we talk about international traffic
The growth rate for the international traffic is more or less identical at CPH and OSL. OSL up 4,8% and CPH up 4,4%. However as the internal traffic at CPH is twice the size compared to OSL, the absolute numbers differs: OSL +44.000 int. pax to 869.000 and CPH +69.000 int. pax. to 1.624.000 In other words CPH increases the gap to OSL when we talk about international traffic
Well, it depends on from what angle you are looking at the Christmas three......
Local market increased by 15.966 pax from CPH . Year to date the local market have only increased by 202.800pax on international routes. OSL have at the same time han an increase of 260.036 pax locally on international services from an area CPH benchmarks as under half of its own size in terms of potential local market.
Year to-date 9.141.669 of the international pax at OSL where local.
Transfer pax from mostly other Nordic countries are the main reason for CPH's growth in international traffic.
The numbers for OSL year to date is also interesting in terms of HUB structure. OSL have a significant increase of transfer passengers and total transfer now holds 22% of the total traffic. Similar numbers for CPH are 24%.
Next year, Avinor and the Norwegian Custom will launch custom free transfer trough OSL on international to domestic flights. Avinor and OSL expect the amount of transfer pax to increase significantly challenging CPH not only as the largest airport in Northern Europe, but also as the largest Scandinavian hub
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 46, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6852 times:
SAS767, you forgot to mention that 26.2% of traffic at CPH are transfers in November and a vast majority of this type of passengers either are heading to or heading from other Nordic countries - not exactly local demand. The differences between CPH and OSL isn't that large for passengers on international flights when you take in to account OSL has two neighbouring airports, RYG and TRF, that have over 2.6 million additional international passengers (11 first months this year) to the 11 million OSL have. The same can be said about Arlanda; if you take in to account the international passengers at Skavsta and Bromma.
The uniqueness of CPH is:
- Star Alliance hub thanks to the SAS Group with feeds from Finland, Sweden and Norway.
- No a real national hub since there is only very low domestic passenger numbers (Jutlanders try to avoid CPH).
- Thanks to the Oresund Bridge many Scanians have CPH as their home airport even though they have MMX in their midst.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2755 posts, RR: 1 Reply 47, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6837 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 45): Next year, Avinor and the Norwegian Custom will launch custom free transfer trough OSL on international to domestic flights.
Could you direct me to an article or anything about this? When is this being implemented?
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6802 times:
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 47): Could you direct me to an article or anything about this? When is this being implemented?-CXfirst
Unfortunately, I can not provide all details on an open forum but it's been debated and also presented in the TV News.
I would be surprised if there are no articles about it out there. Look up Dagsrevyen at NRK 21NOV12.
What I can say is that they are starting with a "test" before they conclude on a permanent solution. It is this test that will start next year. NHO Luftfart Avinor and other institutions have putted much effort info this and the Norwegian Customs aren't to happy about it.
It's also a bad kept secret that the whole Pier North (T2) have a planned baggage handling system that has been constructed for custom clearance on end destination.
OSL have calculated on a potential of at least 2 million new international pax pr year if they get a solution on the custom international-domestic issue. Mainly pax to/from NO.
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 49, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6765 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 45): Local market increased by 15.966 pax from CPH . Year to date the local market have only increased by 202.800pax on international routes. OSL have at the same time han an increase of 260.036 pax locally on international services from an area CPH benchmarks as under half of its own size in terms of potential local market.
Year to-date 9.141.669 of the international pax at OSL where local.
Transfer pax from mostly other Nordic countries are the main reason for CPH's growth in international traffic.
Is it on purpose you try to provide incorrect numbers? The increase of int. local pax from CPH was in November 39.000 pax (source: cph.dk) and not 16.000 pax as you state. The same number for OSL in November was 2.000 pax (source: avinor.no)
Total increase of int. local pax from CPH YTD is 492.000 pax (source: cph.dk) and not 202.800 pax as you state. The same number for OSL YTD is 270.000 (Source: avionor.no)
Total local int. pax at CPH YTD is 15.100.000 compared to 9.142.000 at OSL.
I am pretty sure that we now can agree that the growth of int. local pax at CPH in absolute numbers exceeds the growth at OSL in the same segment!
Based on the fact that CPH this year has been hit by a number of bankruptcies - Cimber Sterling (limited presence at OSL), Spanair (not online at OSL) and Malev (not online at OSL) it is quite impressive to keep up the growth rates in the international traffic.
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 45): Avinor and OSL expect the amount of transfer pax to increase significantly challenging CPH not only as the largest airport in Northern Europe, but also as the largest Scandinavian hub
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6713 times:
Quoting SAS767 (Reply 49): Is it on purpose you try to provide incorrect numbers? The increase of int. local pax from CPH was in November 39.000 pax (source: cph.dk) and not 16.000 pax as you state. The same number for OSL in November was 2.000 pax (source: avinor.no)
Well, I have unfortunately fallen into the trap of using CPH.dk's front material for the numbers above.
In total the numbers are correct, but it's strongly driven down by the collapse of domestic traffic. It's not presented on the front page (just as a total) and I have no problem correcting that with your information when I'm no presented with the sheet.
For Avinor, the numbers are more complex than whats been presented. That's because OSL have added incentives for airlines to report transfer. Airlines reporting transfer pax will not pay the 55nok security fee for the passengers. Until this year, several large handling companies and airlines have not presented this numbers correctly. However as in my previous post, thats the numbers presented and thats what should be used as the material for comparisment.
But I'm afraid your obvious hope for a bashing motive brings more amusement to me than anything else!
I have always admired your ability to bring failed services and airlines into the discussion.
have you ever thought of why they failed?
OSL and ARN have a more conservative approach to new airlines and services than CPH.
CPH's approach brings more risk and a higher turnover on new services which naturally affect the numbers of passengers. Blaming failed services and airlines that have brought volumes in on non sustainable markets should argument for a lesson in capitalism.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1036 posts, RR: 15 Reply 51, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6581 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 45): Avinor and OSL expect the amount of transfer pax to increase significantly challenging CPH not only as the largest airport in Northern Europe, but also as the largest Scandinavian hub
Hub for what? Noone can dispute CPH:s position in this respect for international travellers. OSL is driven by the domestic network to a large extent. Both CPH and ARN have larger markets for international travel any way you twist it. And OSL is not to be regarded as hub for international travel the way CPH is. Even ARN is ahead with a larger market.
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 52, posted (6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6473 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 51): Hub for what? Noone can dispute CPH:s position in this respect for international travellers. OSL is driven by the domestic network to a large extent. Both CPH and ARN have larger markets for international travel any way you twist it. And OSL is not to be regarded as hub for international travel the way CPH is. Even ARN is ahead with a larger market.
If you think outside the normal SAS box Stefan and move all eastbound SAS IC flights to ARN, SAS could have saved 7-8% measured in passenger kilometres to do the same job. With the margins of today that may well be the difference between loosing money and earning money for SAS on eastbound IC routes. Moving westbound IC routes to OSL would have saved 5-6%, and even gathering all IC flights to ARN would have save up to around 1% for the westbound IC part.
Since we are comparing international passengers between the three Scandinavian countries - let's take closer look and start with Sweden.
Sweden has 17 airports with more than 25,000 international passengers year to date (for Swedavia airports I have numbers for January - November, the 11 other I have used January - October numbers), and the total number for Sweden is 21.7 million international passengers. The number of domestic passengers at the same airports is 11.0 million.
Norway has 13 airports with more than 25,000 international passengers year to date (January - November), and the total number for Norway is 19.1 million international passengers. The number of domestic passengers at the same airports is 24.6 million.
Denmark has only 4 airports with more than 25,000 international passengers year to date (January - November), and the total number for Denmark is 23.0 million international passengers. The number of domestic passengers at the same airports is 3.0 million. 5.2 million of the passengers at CPH are transfer passengers, and estimated 3.4 million of these are international passengers - and a large share of these passengers are heading to/from Finland, Sweden and Norway. It is therefore more correct to say Denmark (+ Scania) has 19.6 million international passengers.
With this little overview it isn't so clear anymore that CPH is a clear Scandinavian hub. There is another airline that has realized this and I don't think it is even necessary to name it. For June next year we will start to see a change.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6362 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 51): Hub for what? Noone can dispute CPH:s position in this respect for international travellers. OSL is driven by the domestic network to a large extent. Both CPH and ARN have larger markets for international travel any way you twist it. And OSL is not to be regarded as hub for international travel the way CPH is. Even ARN is ahead with a larger market.
You are asking a question base on a statement that have not been raised.
The definition of hub is not connected exclusively to the total numbers of international passengers in transit or transfer.
As an international HUB, no airport in Northern Europe will ever be able to challenge CPH on that title as long as it’s the main hub for the largest international airline
In Scandinavia. I can not see that statement raised anywhere in this thread?
But to close the eyes for the development of OSL where transfer are growing rapidly and the planned implementation of effective custom clearance transfer is expected to bring in 2 million new passengers, is just a mindless rejection of the current development.
Norwegians in cities outside OSL’s local catchment area avoids the airport when they travel internationally and with good reasons. The result can be seen with the impressive route network directly to other effective hubs with airlines such as SAS, KLM, BA and Lufthansa. By the end of this year, 22% of the traffic at OSL will be connecting passengers using OSL. That’s the definition of a hub and a hub structure where passengers connect to other destinations domestically and internationally.
It’s a topic that can be discussed up and down for hours, but opening up for effective transfer will bring inn more transfer passengers. OSL is now well connected to the largest markets in Europe and to major destinations in other continents.
Having up to 30 flights out of OSL to BGO/TRD/SVG will most certainly give attractive connections to many of the international trunk routes from OSL, compared to 2-5 daily to AMS, FRA and CPH. This will bring in more passengers to OSL all dough the current destinations served from these airports are not likely to be threaten.
When or if OSL passes CPH as the largest airport in Scandinavia, the numbers of passengers in transfer will probably be more or less the same as at CPH. Finding a new definition to defend the title of the largest hub could be difficult unless “international” are added to the title.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1036 posts, RR: 15 Reply 54, posted (6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6173 times:
Long answers from our norwegian friends to the statement that CPH is still the major hub for int´l traffic in the Nordic countries. With traffic at OSL mainly originating in Norway the growth will have a limit until more tourist and business traffic is added to the figures. CPH, ARN have more international traffic.
The size of OSL as such is mainly dependent on lack of surface transportation facilities in Norway because if you geography. The domestic traffic thus has a large portion of the traffic. In both Denmark and Sweden you can use other means of transportation than air travel to a large extent.
ARN and CPH will in the next years still attract more international traffic from foreign carriers I suppose.
And for that SAS box LN-KGL... I suppose you are in the norwegian box?
LN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 803 posts, RR: 4 Reply 55, posted (6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6138 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 54): And for that SAS box LN-KGL... I suppose you are in the norwegian box?
I have to disappoint you there Stefan, the proposal to move all IC to ARN/OSL I heard a bit over a week ago from a recently retired SAS A330/A340 captain and two other SAS insiders. All said it was even discussed vividly inside SAS.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1345 posts, RR: 2 Reply 56, posted (6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6095 times:
People have neglected to mention that Norway is the only country in the region with significant economic growth and versus Denmark, where it has been caught in the Euro economic stagnation (with the DKK pegged to the currency), growth has been sluggish.
Domestic and international traffic aside, I think this could be make or break for how successful both OSL and CPH are in the future.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1036 posts, RR: 15 Reply 57, posted (6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6040 times:
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 55): I have to disappoint you there Stefan, the proposal to move all IC to ARN/OSL I heard a bit over a week ago from a recently retired SAS A330/A340 captain and two other SAS insiders. All said it was even discussed vividly inside SAS.
The day rumors among SAS captains turn out to be based on discussions in SAS management I will be genuinly surprised. This will not happen in SAS as it is now. And I´m not disappointed, I just know how SAS works.
I doubt SAS will be the answer to need for longhaul routes out of OSL. The answer spells Norwegian instead. Ive been around long enough to know that SAS will not move any longhaul routes out of CPH, nor will they start anything more out of OSL nor ARN unless forced to.
SAS767 From Denmark, joined Dec 1999, 394 posts, RR: 1 Reply 58, posted (6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5996 times:
Lets leave our Norwegian dreamers and return to reality (I know it will be impossible to sell all the good arguments to them so I won't prioritize my time to this discussion).
easyJet will open new daily route between Rome (FCO) and CPH from the 8th of April next year. This will be easyJet route number 12 out of Copenhagen:
It seems like Italy will be the new battlefield from CPH next summer. A lot of new routes and operators in this market - and from what I hear it might not end here... This will be quite interesting to follow.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 60, posted (6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5866 times:
Quoting SAS767 (Reply 58): Lets leave our Norwegian dreamers and return to reality (I know it will be impossible to sell all the good arguments to them so I won't prioritize my time to this discussion).
Avoiding dicussing topics with childish statements, is just another validation and aknowlege of what has been presented.
I do not like to be personal because I'm in favour of discussions based on differences on topic presented and not bashing and childish approaches.
You are falling into the trap of presenting others opinions as you also used to do on another aviation forum.
That did not go to well........
Enjoy you evening and try to give the same respect to others opinions as they do to yours!
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5832 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 54):
ARN and CPH will in the next years still attract more international traffic from foreign carriers I suppose.
Suppose you also know that OSL have a higher nett growth in international pax so far this year compared to ARN.
Growth of 6,2% at OSL with 643.000 new international pax versus ARN with 4% growth and 530.000.
You can also add a decline of aprox -10% at Skavsta so far this year in deep contrast to the growth on Rygge and Torp.
The problem with OSL is that the airport is full in peak. ARN and CPH is not even near the restrictions at OSL.
There are no openings for new airlines for at least two years.
Many airlines want to open bases or add services but are on hold until they can receive attractive slots.
Given the fact that the growth is almost solitary based on existing routes and services, the numbers are impressive.
Growth as a result of new airlines and services should hardly come as a surprice. If it's sustainable is another question....
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 62, posted (6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5796 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 56): People have neglected to mention that Norway is the only country in the region with significant economic growth and versus Denmark, where it has been caught in the Euro economic stagnation (with the DKK pegged to the currency), growth has been sluggish
It has also been for many years and still is the fastest growing capital city in Europe.
Quote: The population currently increases at record rates, making it the fastest growing city in Europe
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 63, posted (6 months 1 week ago) and read 5677 times:
Some fleet updates:
LN-RGB, SAS' newest 737-800 (on lease from GECAS) will arrive at ARN this morning. LN-RGC, the next one, is about to follow towards the end of January.
Their first A320 should also arrive in CPH within a week, ready for it's first scheduled flights 22/12
LN-NGG and NGH, the two next 737-800 to Norwegian has both had their first flight from Renton. NGG is scheduled to be delivered before Christmas, with NGH to follow after that
TUI is also planning to use 787 on selected long haul routes from CPH for the W13/14 season
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1036 posts, RR: 15 Reply 64, posted (6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5426 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 60): Avoiding dicussing topics with childish statements, is just another validation and aknowlege of what has been presented.
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 61): Suppose you also know that OSL have a higher nett growth in international pax so far this year compared to ARN.
Growth of 6,2% at OSL with 643.000 new international pax versus ARN with 4% growth and 530.000.
You can also add a decline of aprox -10% at Skavsta so far this year in deep contrast to the growth on Rygge and Torp.
I think you are running out of arguments. Its all domestic. I say again.. ARN and CPH are more important international hubs than OSL will ever be. It has to do with the market. Norwegans are wealthy tourist travellers but that alone does not sustain international longhaul routes the way CPH works. You need business travel too. OSL can sustain a route to MIA perhaps apart from what you have now. The rest will go from ARN or CPH as it is right now.
OSL has a lot of domestoc traffic just because you can not go fast enough by road nor train in your country. But bu all means dream on. I like you anyway!!
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1036 posts, RR: 15 Reply 65, posted (6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5424 times:
I just want to complete my argument...
Norwegian traffic has to do with lack of ground transportation domestically and an enormous oil induced growth in private tourist travel out of all norwegian airports mainly to the mediterranean and perhaps Thailand. This differs from traffic out of Denmark and Sweden where you also have a substantial business travel and also incoming tourist traffic from abroad,
This sums up to ARN and CPH being more interesting for international airline expansion as it is right now. Im not talking about future... OSL and Rygge etc is Norwegian and Ryanair country with total lack of business travel.
But OSL has its growth no doubt. But remember where it comes from. Wealthy norwegian tourists going abroad. And transiting from Bodö, Trondheim and such... So international airlines with more incoming traffic will have less interest in OSL or Rygge than Norwegian and Ryanair right now.
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 66, posted (6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5450 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 64): OSL can sustain a route to MIA perhaps apart from what you have now.
In addition to PEK and SIN. Also remember that routes to the Far East does not have to be filled to the same extent because of huge cargo volumes that brings in cash as well.
But I do agree with you that both CPH and ARN are bigger international markets than OSL.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 67, posted (6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5435 times:
Quoting Navigator (Reply 64): Norwegans are wealthy tourist travellers but that alone does not sustain international longhaul routes the way CPH works. You need business travel too. OSL can sustain a route to MIA perhaps apart from what you have now. The rest will go from ARN or CPH as it is right now.
OSL has a lot of domestoc traffic just because you can not go fast enough by road nor train in your country. But bu all means dream on. I like you anyway!!
BA Norway
BA boss says that the good traffic figures between Norway and the United Kingdom stir among airline group management in London:
- In particular, one is impressed by the high percentage of business travelers. In terms of population, for example, Norway twice as large number of business and Denmark. The business traveler will not only to London, we also have a very high percentage of those traveling on with us to the rest of the world, says Rasmussen.
Scandinavia with Finland are very important for Lufthansa. For Norway is on the top internationally in the use of business travel, and the market is huge even though Norway has fewer residents than in the rest of Europe.
- Financial Crisis? We have not noticed any of the financial crisis on our routes from Norway. We make it record good, despite the recession elsewhere in the world, says Daniel Eggenberger, head of Air France-KLM in Scandinavia, to the newspaper.
The newspaper writes that for KLM, Norway is the most important country as the number of passengers. The Norwegians also like to pay very well for for their tickets making our business product even more popular.
Continental (United) and Thai have also expressed the same in media. Search and you will find.
There was also a similar article from Qatar this summer, but i cant find it now.
Also Norwegian air fare index presented their numbers this week stating that rates and fares are higher from OSL compared to ARN and CPH on both European and intercontinental services.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5442 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 66): But I do agree with you that both CPH and ARN are bigger international markets than OSL.
Quote you on that one. Also Stockholm have all my respect by adding the title as the capital of Scandinavia. I love the city and it's ridiculously undeserved. EK will be a instant success from ARN.
seansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 725 posts, RR: 0 Reply 69, posted (6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5366 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 67): BA boss says that the good traffic figures between Norway and the United Kingdom stir among airline group management in London:
Would be nice to see BA launch LCY-Oslo.
Anybody know how Sun Air is doing? I read that they have added 3 DO328s.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5348 times:
BA added a fifth daily rotation in November. Still, they are frequent inn and out with 320 and 321 so they are doing ok.
If OSL is to be served by BA to LCY, they will need to operate a similar schedule as ARN-LCY.
That means a night stop with a departure out of OSL before 07:30 am.
New airlines and services aren't to keen on leaving aircraft and crew overnight.
Flying in and out from 10am - 14pm the earliest are not the recipe for a yield generator.
Until more peak slots will be added, we are unlikely to See any new European services aiming for the core business market.
By the way, any idea why BA went for Arlanda and not Bromma for their LCY service? Had my first trip to the airport this fall and I fell in love with it. It must be more convinient as a buiness trunk service to London than from ARN?
Shorter terminal transit time and a very effective location that is easy to reach in the morning peak makes me think of it as a more attractive option?
seansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 725 posts, RR: 0 Reply 71, posted (6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5331 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 70): By the way, any idea why BA went for Arlanda and not Bromma for their LCY service? Had my first trip to the airport this fall and I fell in love with it. It must be more convinient as a buiness trunk service to London than from ARN?
I recently spoke with a senior manager at LCY and he said that BA had recently started talks with Bromma about possibly moving the service to Bromma.
Seems like there was a little delay as SE-DIL had to wait for today untill leaving for the scrapper. However, the next one LN-ROX is supposed to follow over the Atlantic tomorrow, and SE-DIS is supposed to have its last revenue flight today. So the MDs are leaving the SAS fleet in a steady stream. There is also rumours about a potential acceleration of the MD retirement
The first A320 for SAS, OY-KAL, is supposed to arrive in CPH today, with first revenue flight on Saturday. The next one, OY-KAM, is planned to arrive in CPH in the middle of January
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4446 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 73): Not surprising, but FlyBE is closing BMA-OSL from Jan 6.
It would hardly come as a surprise that Flybe has immediately terminated their OSL-BMA.
Todays flights are cancelled and all flights has been removed from flybe.se from today and onwards.
Flybe did not get any attractive slots and the service was on death row even before the first flight.
They did apply for new destinations and change of schedule from OSL for S13, but the lack of capacity did not give them any
attractive departure times and a combination of other services out of OSL for S12 was then impossible to be introduced.
I’m a bit surprised why SAS have not introduced Widerøe on this service at an earlier stage.
Stockholm is by far the larges international local market from OSL with a high percentage of business traffic.
Circling inn Bromma would most definitely bring them some advantages over DY to Stockholm.
The market is definitely there, but the service must be known to the public with an attractive schedule.
I think Widerøe is the airline to fill that niche.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 75, posted (6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4428 times:
Norwegian is introducing six more routes from CPH
Liverpool - 3x weekly from 05 Apr 13
Madrid - 4x weekly from 05 Apr 13
Lisboa - 2x weekly from 11 Apr 13
Montpellier - 2x weekly from 24 Jun 13
Sarajevo - 1x weekly from 25 Jun 13
Kurfu - 1x weekly from 28 Jun 13
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 74): I’m a bit surprised why SAS have not introduced Widerøe on this service at an earlier stage.
Stockholm is by far the larges international local market from OSL with a high percentage of business traffic.
Circling inn Bromma would most definitely bring them some advantages over DY to Stockholm.
The market is definitely there, but the service must be known to the public with an attractive schedule.
I think Widerøe is the airline to fill that niche.
Don't you partially give an explaination on why not, when describing FlyBE's failure on OSL-BMA?
I guess it neither for WF would be possible to get the needed slot for such a service, without sacrifice an existing service? And during peak, the flights on OSL-ARN today seems to be going quite full with good yields, based on my experiences?
Although I agree that the market and its willingness to pay, should be there
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 76, posted (6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4402 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 75): Don't you partially give an explanation on why not, when describing FlyBE's failure on OSL-BMA?
I guess it neither for WF would be possible to get the needed slot for such a service, without sacrifice an existing service? And during peak, the flights on OSL-ARN today seems to be going quite full with good yields, based on my experiences?
Slots are complicated things, but operators like DY and SK/WF have such large operations that they can "fill" inn departures in peak by moving slightly on their own schedules. This is what DY and partly SK have done towards the S13 season with the new services launched. DY have also managed to push one additional aircraft in on OSL for the S13 season. For new carriers however, this is impossible as slots are not open for trade at OSL.
However as i wrote, I'm surprised why SK and Widerøe has not done this earlier and long before the airport where congested.
Yes, Stockholm is performing very well and always has because of the close ties of SE-NO. However SK could have provided their costumers with a sharper product by flying in and out of Bromma trice daily in adition to ARN. I used the airport this fall, and I'm still impressed by the convenience how time effective it was to reach some of Stockholm's central areas. It took me less than 3 hours to move from central Oslo to Kungsholmen in Stockholm.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1345 posts, RR: 2 Reply 77, posted (6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4551 times:
I find it interesting that BA are really pushing Norwegian routes now with flights from LHR T5 to OSL, SVG and BGO... Now some flights have been upgauged on OSL: I recently flew on an A321 from LHR. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a 767 on the route at some point in the future as BA flights to OSL are always packed full and BA has a huge customer base there... I guess the lack of direct longhaul connections with SAS and the likes as well as people's desire to avoid CPH at all costs has pushed Norwegian passengers onto BA. Now that they have a world class facility at LHR, I can understand.
Maybe it is just a sign that OSL can sustain more direct longhaul flights than it already does? I think people here are really undererstimating Norway as an economic powerhouse at the moment.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2825 posts, RR: 1 Reply 80, posted (6 months 1 day ago) and read 4094 times:
SAS will most likely lease an A340-300 from Airbus from first half of 2013. Meaning they will have eight in their fleet, and enables them to restart BKK from the winter season and have some spare in their fleet. They went for A340 instead of A340 as it can be used on all their routes and the leasing cost compared to an A330 is about half the price
copenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 589 posts, RR: 1 Reply 82, posted (6 months 14 hours ago) and read 3816 times:
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 80): SAS will most likely lease an A340-300 from Airbus from first half of 2013. Meaning they will have eight in their fleet, and enables them to restart BKK from the winter season and have some spare in their fleet. They went for A340 instead of A340 as it can be used on all their routes and the leasing cost compared to an A330 is about half the price
Sounds amazing, do you have any sources or is it some kind of inside information?
I really hope that BKK is coming back, but they could maybe also use it in the joint venture with Singapore.
arn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 83, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3551 times:
In Standby.dk CPH reveals that there will be announced two new IC routes in 2013. Opinions about what to expect? TAM and Sri Lankan have been talked about but not likely at all anymore considering TAM leaving Star and Sri Lankan with financial difficulties. United has left CPH and Delta has been cutting back the past years only leaving SAS operating year around to the US so I AA a good candidate? To JFK or MIA? Air China to PEK, will they come next year? And I bet CPH are doing whatever they can to get Ethiopian to move from ARN.
And how about DU? When will they start their operations at CPH?
ARN From Sweden, joined Feb 2001, 253 posts, RR: 0 Reply 84, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3422 times:
In the Stand By article only SK to SFO is mentioned. So it is two more long haul flights apart from that flight. But AT to Casablanca is not mentioned. Could that be considered long haul? In my opinion no, but it is transcontinental.
So one new flight then (perhaps). I would bet my money on CA to Beijing.
And a wild guess: What about Jet Airways? Where are they planning to put the capacity withdrawn from Milan?
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 85, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3391 times:
Quoting ARN" class="quote" target="_blank">ARN (Reply 84): In the Stand By article only SK to SFO is mentioned. So it is two more long haul flights apart from that flight. But AT to Casablanca is not mentioned. Could that be considered long haul? In my opinion no, but it is transcontinental.
So one new flight then (perhaps). I would bet my money on CA to Beijing.
And a wild guess: What about Jet Airways? Where are they planning to put the capacity withdrawn from Milan?
It's Norwegian and DU. The third aircraft due to be delivered next fall, will be used to also launch services out of Copenhagen in additional to new routes from OSL/ARN. Cape Town I've heard and probably Miami or Bangkok. Norwegian will present the new destinations this winter so it's not long before it's presented to the public.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 87, posted (5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3305 times:
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 91, posted (5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2393 times:
Quoting arn777 (Reply 88):
I will not be surprised at all if ARN-LAX comes one day.
I am sure that they could make it work with at least 3 flights a week.
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