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Airbus Takes A Swing At Boeing With Pinocchio Ad  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 30347 times:
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Wow.... Airbus jabs Boeing "below the belt"....


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...s-planemaker-rivalry-sharpens.html

193 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 30438 times:
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Whatever. Listen in on some of John Leahey's presentations some time (they're on YouTube) and you'll see that Geppetto is pulling his strings, as well.  

User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 30231 times:

Quote:
“The truth about these claims is that neither side knows,” said Richard Aboulafia, vice president of consultant Teal Group in Fairfax, Virginia. “These are engine-driven aircraft,” and until they have been fully developed and start tests, it’s impossible to know what they can offer, he said.

That's all that need be said.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 30089 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Wow.... Airbus jabs Boeing "below the belt"....

Is this for real? Shameless, unnecessary, and embarrassing - for Airbus. Aren't there some wing cracks to fix in Toulouse?



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29952 times:

That's childish IMO. Airbus must be jealous that Boeing is about to rebecome the leader


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29945 times:

I hope Boeing sees this and files a lawsuit against Airbus for product defamation.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineLostSound From Canada, joined May 2012, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29940 times:

It's not personal, it's business.

Boeing and Airbus have been jabbing each-other for years.
Why this is important, I don't really know.

Doesn't change my view about either manufacturers.



"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 29815 times:

The article states that Airbus is concerned that "less sophisticated airlines" might actually believe the Boeing sales pitch and not visit the Airbus showroom. Yet, in the same article Airbus claims its 320 family and 380 are market leaders and the 320NEO has about 600 more orders on the books than does the 737MAX. It seems Airbus is doing a good job reaching the airlines.

Also, honestly, any airline that buys a billion dollars worth of planes based solely on print advertising proffered by either manufacturer deserves what it gets. I can't believe any airline would pay the slightest bit of attention to such advertising.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 29750 times:
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This is coming from a company whose executives have been investigated and arrested for insider trading, illegal subs and bribery.

User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 29721 times:
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Agree, this is business, not personal

However, this ad SAYS A LOT MORE ABOUT AIRBUS THAN IT DOES ABOUT BOEING...

Airbus is showing their frustration. They've been able to beat Boeing in the narrow-body market, but as far as the wide-body market, Airbus will never build a more succesful plane than the 777 pax/freighter.. And the 787 looks like it might be a winner as well


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 29692 times:

Next time the A people come whining about some statement the Boeing salesman said on an obscure blog.....

User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 29348 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
However, this ad SAYS A LOT MORE ABOUT AIRBUS THAN IT DOES ABOUT BOEING...

Airbus is showing their frustration. They've been able to beat Boeing in the narrow-body market, but as far as the wide-body market, Airbus will never build a more succesful plane than the 777 pax/freighter.. And the 787 looks like it might be a winner as well

Well said.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 29259 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
This is coming from a company whose executives have been investigated and arrested for insider trading, illegal subs and bribery.

I think both builders have had their problems in this area.

The picture should be added to that long (plagarized evidently, and deleted) list of astounding Airbus quotes attackng Boeing. Does any one have a link to that list. Boeing does 'corporate speak' when it comments on Airbus - bland and boring.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineuALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 29072 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
This is coming from a company whose executives have been investigated and arrested for insider trading, illegal subs and bribery.

I don't recall any arrest, but I may have forgotten. At Boeing, on the other hand, ...

http://tinyurl.com/cjy9b54



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineFaddyPainter From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 28863 times:

I don't know why a few people here are getting all in a huff over Airbus's rather obvious trolling of its rival. I for one like to see the personal side of companies like this having a dig at each other. Breaks up the usual bland, faceless corporate PR usually trotted out by OEMs and makes for a nice bit of light entertainment seeing them at each others throats.

I hope Boeing issues an equally beguiling gibe in response.


User currently offlinebaldwin471 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 28734 times:

Quoting FaddyPainter (Reply 14):

Agreed. People going way over the top here.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 28324 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):

Agree, this is business, not personal

However, this ad SAYS A LOT MORE ABOUT AIRBUS THAN IT DOES ABOUT BOEING...

Airbus is showing their frustration. They've been able to beat Boeing in the narrow-body market, but as far as the wide-body market, Airbus will never build a more succesful plane than the 777 pax/freighter.. And the 787 looks like it might be a winner as well

Just to refresh the memory of you and a few others:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrECbn7kttg

Deal with it, and move on.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 27945 times:

I love the Airbus and Boeing rivalry. Airbus certainly makes their opinions public, although I'm not sure that "more sophisticated airlines" would buy an airplane because of a wider aisle, larger fan diameter engines and fly by wire. Those things are nice and great selling points, but any sophisticated airline will look at the real numbers.

I personally love the 737 vs A320 rivalry. Airbus always quotes the A320 efficiency in total trip costs under the assumption that the capacity is similar. Boeing always quotes the 737-800 efficiency in cost per seat under the assumption that the 737 has a 12 seat capacity advantage. Both try to color their airplanes in their favor and make the comparisons that show their airplane in the most favorable terms.

In the end, it's too early to really know how the airplanes will perform. Boeing just got to firm concept which means they are finally firming up the calculations for efficiency numbers.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 27675 times:
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I'm not sure how wise it is to launch an advertisement in various airline trades that calls in to question the intelligence of airlines when it comes to purchasing airliners.   

JAAlbert's comments are spot on - any airline with a real Operating Certificate doesn't buy solely based on the brochure numbers - especially the brochure numbers Airbus and Boeing tout in their advertisements (per seat cost / trip costs).


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 27464 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 5):
I hope Boeing sees this and files a lawsuit against Airbus for product defamation.

If you read the article, they have seen it. But I do agree that they should sue.

But then again, it's competition...and it goes to show that they really, really, REALLY hate each other. The drama continues.......

Now this thread is now officially an A vs. B war, a first in a very, very long time! Welcome to the War.

I'm getting out the popcorn!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 796 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 27150 times:

Some of you are taking this as though Airbus has made a personal hit at you. See the funny side of it! On first glance, I have to say I thought it was hilarious. This kind of thing works both ways and is a trend throughout the industry.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 17):
although I'm not sure that "more sophisticated airlines" would buy an airplane because of a wider aisle

When it comes to the 787 vs A350, i'm sure the XWB will be a pivotal deciding factor for many carriers as it can mean the difference between 9 and 10 abreast.

ThomasCook



A380 Crew
User currently offlineATL From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 27100 times:

Quoting FaddyPainter (Reply 14):
Airbus's rather obvious trolling of its rival.

I don't think you're using that right

Also, really Airbus? Come on now


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26841 times:

Not really adequate advertisement. Who at Airbus is responsible for spending money for such a junk ad, that just is not a serious way? This even does not convince MoL. So Airbus, fire those who are responsible for this - they are not worth a dollar per year.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31001 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26618 times:
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Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 20):
When it comes to the 787 vs A350, i'm sure the XWB will be a pivotal deciding factor for many carriers as it can mean the difference between 9 and 10 abreast.

That will be only of interest to charter operations like yourself.

Non-charter operators who want 10-abreast will be looking at the 777, 777X, 747 and A380.

[Edited 2012-11-27 11:30:37]

User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26224 times:

Just what we need. In the US, we haven't even had a month off from the political attack ads.


135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
25 ZaphodB : never? that's a mighty long time.
26 Post contains links flood : It's no different, really, to insulting the intelligence of one's customers at a presentation. This comes to mind, as reported by Aeroturbopower from
27 Post contains images CM : Personally, I love it when the rivalry heats up. A few months ago, it was the companies accusing each other of "predatory pricing". Now it's a dispute
28 AirframeAS : Trademark infringement (they used a 737Max nose) and slander, for starters. Honestly, I don't know....at the same time, who knows. Anything is possib
29 BigJKU : Honestly the only thing to really say here is that there is a right way to do business and a wrong way to do business. Doing things the wrong way does
30 Post contains links hb88 : Good grief what a lot of bbbbbfanbois getting in a huff. As one poster pointed out, both companies occasionally have a shot at the other. It's just th
31 twinotter : The 737 isn't "trademarked". You may take a picture of one and publish it here if you want to, even if you photoshop it to make it look silly in some
32 AirframeAS : Yes, they will.... if you use it for a "for profit" gain like what Airbus is doing. And on paper as well, like this ad. I disagree. It is only succes
33 Post contains images EPA001 : That is how it goes. One punch from the one os followed by one punch from the other. This is nothing more then that and in both cases it was done wit
34 Post contains images flood : What makes you think the 737MAX's nose is trademarked? It's not. Neither is the generic term "MAX", for that matter. Not to mention... I have yet to
35 jetblueguy22 : I personally find the ad pretty funny. But for them to say the numbers are way off is silly. Neither aircraft have been put together, never mind flown
36 Kaiarahi : There's no such cause of action. Only persons can be defamed, not things. Slander is verbal defamation.
37 seabosdca : Good lord. Lawsuits? Those are expensive, you know. And there'd be no benefit. Either Airbus is wrong and the MAX is competitive with the neo, in whic
38 CM : Really. You can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. Here's a great example of handling something properly, which I think you wi
39 Post contains images glideslope : Wow, things are worse in Toulouse than I thought. All the EU bailouts must be forcing EADS to tighten the belt around Airbus? Maybe move some addition
40 ThomasCook : That was quite an unfounded baseless response wasn't it? Configs remain to be seen...let's see what the likes of EI, EK and EY come up with.[Edited 2
41 AirframeAS : So, you're saying that Airbus, if they wanted to, could use the 737 nose on their future products?? Seriously?? It can be written on paper as well. I
42 redflyer : Ouch! I had a great laugh over it. The photo is absolutely priceless! I definitely give the edge to Airbus for creativity. Unfortunately, I think thi
43 flood : I never suggested anything of the like. I'm not sure how you managed to make the leap from a derivative image being used in advertising to the copyin
44 BE77 : Speaking of lawsuits, doesn't Disney have a horse in this race here too? Did Airbus get permission to use an image very definitely associated with Dis
45 Stitch : EK have already stated they intend to fly the A350 at 9-abreast in Economy (the drop in seats between the 777-300ER and the A350-1000 has been a bit
46 AirframeAS : It never stopped China with their C919 or the ARJ21..... You didn't have to.....
47 N766UA : I like how they say "both of which are 1960's designs." First off, yes they are, and they're doing a pretty awesome job of competing with your "newer"
48 Post contains images FaddyPainter : I think Ryanair and the Michael O'Leary brigade would have a thing or two to say about that. I'm sure you don't need me to provide examples.
49 tmoney : The article lost me when it said: "Chicago-based Boeing". Uh?!
50 KC135Hydraulics : Ha.... hahaha.. PWNED, Airbus.
51 Post contains links and images kaneporta1 : Some people here shouldn't take life so seriously. Personally I love this ad and I hope Boeing respond with an even more flamboyant one. If more compa
52 JAAlbert : Hilarious! I'm glad you left it in - it's funny. Gents (and ladies) I agree with the view that this is kinda par for the course in the airplane manuf
53 CapEd388 : The article is correct, Boeing is headquartered in Chicago. They used to be headquartered in Seattle and their main plant is still there, but the off
54 CM : LOL! The Go / Kingfisher / Jet bilboards are a classic! Thanks for that! Indeed, people should sit back and enjoy this. In the end, one or perhaps bo
55 cmf : It is called libel when it is written (or broadcast) but at a site like this it is for all practical purposes the same.
56 Post contains images jdevora : Hi, Anybody knows where to find a higher resolution image? I can't read what it says JD
57 vanguard737 : That's called libel. Either way, there is no need for lawsuits, nor do I see any ground for Boeing to stand on, even if they wished to pursue legal a
58 bikerthai : Remember the 4 for the long haul ad? I'm waiting for karma come around Very funny. Very sharp!!! bt
59 Post contains images AirframeAS : Ah, yes. That is the term I was looking for. Thanks! Glad to have you joining us in the bleachers here! LOL!
60 Post contains links kaneporta1 : Since the photo in my previous post is gone, here's a link where you can see it: http://copytaste.com/dr17e2kv
61 Post contains images davs5032 : Doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know about Boeing or Airbus. Airbus has proven that its marketing strategy is questionable if not c
62 Post contains images Stitch : And while it can clearly inflame aircraft enthusiasts, they don't have any influence on an airline's aircraft purchases.
63 penguins : I think it is horrible that any company, Airbus or Boeing included, would stoop to such low levels. To achieve what? Sales? Popularity among airlines?
64 Post contains images AirframeAS : That would be historically NEW on A.net! LOL!
65 Post contains links longhauler : Is there not a part of the old Sud Aviation in today's Airbus? http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&cl...1t:429,r:26,s:0,i:168&tx=70&ty=109 T
66 Aither : As the article says this is linked to the recent Boeing advertising campaign showing publicly performance comparisons between Boeing and Airbus aircra
67 DocLightning : Why would Airbus (or Boeing, for that matter) feel that taking this matter to a public advertising campaign would in any way be helpful? While some fr
68 Post contains links zeke : I am trying to work out what part is below the belt ? What have they said in the advertisement that is untrue ? 1500+ A320neo orders in 2 years Aroun
69 Post contains images Daysleeper : This has to be the most entertaining thread I've seen here in years Better still, had a member decided to start a thread making the same claims Airbus
70 Post contains images flood : From the Bloomberg article, it doesn't seem the ad is targeted at the general flying public as it's apparently only being run in Flight and Aviation
71 tdscanuck : Both companies did exactly the same thing the tanker bid...placing ads in AW&ST isn't really targeting "the public", it's aimed mostly at politic
72 davs5032 : Sentiments like this have always, and continue to be a figment of your imagination, and are devoid of any factual basis. You're constantly making com
73 billreid : I would use this as a sales tool if I were Boeing. Obviously, Airbus couldn't come up with a single solitary positive thing to say to promote the NEO
74 lxa333 : How is Airbus better when they rely on government subsidies to back up their success and lower aircraft prices by up to 50 percent or more. You are te
75 tdscanuck : It's been a long time since Airbus actually got a subsidy (and they weren't the Airbus we know today when they did). Airbus doesn't sell anything at
76 Post contains images AirframeAS : We don't know that quite yet. That is subject to debate, until then.... Uhhhh, sure. Okay.
77 RIXrat : The ad, itself, got its 15 minutes of fame and will be soon forgotten, but I think where John Leahe really stepped into it was in the Bloomberg story
78 gigneil : It actually isn't... we know the fan size and the bypass ratio, and they are both in fact larger numbers for the A320. NS
79 Post contains links CM : It wasn't put out by Boeing. I have already heard of one instance where this is now the plan... along with this priceless quote from John Leahy: Appa
80 DocLightning : Fair enough. But the 737/A320 isn't. It's really aimed at airline CEO's. I promise you that DL will not lose a single Platinum Elite customer if they
81 707lvr : Airbus always gets a pass on this sort of thing. "Well, it's Airbus after all." (Also see: FR) Boeing, as usual, will ignore it and just continue to b
82 autothrust : Nope it's called marketing else you can call many Boeing ads childish aswell.Many posts on this thread are childish: If Airbus had known about GE-90
83 CM : Indeed. Both OEM's are more than capable of predicting engine/airframe efficiency to within a couple percent long before any hardware has flown.
84 nimool : That is childish, grow up airbus!
85 JoeCanuck : Ah....how refreshing...no more Mr. Nice Guy. Life is so much more entertaining when competitors shake their thin veneers of civility and let the vitri
86 swallow : Trash talking is common in sports, but we are not usually privy to what is being said. This is corporate trash talking...... and we are none the wiser
87 travelhound : I think we have to remember behind every airline there are a multitude of investors, whether they be pension funds, trusts, investment bankers, priva
88 Irishpower : One of the first things you learn in sales is - "When the competition is spending more time speaking about you and your products--you're winning". Boe
89 flipdewaf : OH NO! A company says its competitor is not as good as they say they are, happens all the time. Fred
90 zeke : You do not get it, this was in response to what Boeing has been saying, they are the ones spending so much money and energy putting the A320NEO and A
91 Cerecl : This latest ad is just another unnecessary attempt in an A vs B war. I have a difficult time understanding A and B continues to hit each other in publ
92 AirframeAS : Yes it is. Anything is changeable before they actually come up with the final product. Look at the 787 for example. The tail is obviously different t
93 JoeCanuck : I think that's because this flamefest was started by one of the two usual topics of derision themselves. This isn't the usual A v. B fanboi purse swi
94 racercoup : I have noticed the Airbus refers to themselves as "a leading aircraft manufacturer", last year the web site moniker was "the world's largest manufactu
95 Post contains images diverdave : Maybe the ad is targeted at the airliners.net audience, and the instigators in Toulouse are dying of laughter. David
96 zeke : The press like to use a phrase like "largest civil aircraft manufacturer", the meaning is that the A380 is the largest civil airliner, and it is made
97 Darksnowynight : That may well have been licensed. They built a tranche of Super80s that way not so long ago. I agree. Let's see some starch. I remember a full page a
98 Post contains links and images bikerthai : But it seams like a good idea at the time. And so was this: http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...ng-rips-Airbus-ad-that-1092134.php But then the ai
99 babybus : I doubt very much if Airbus could have made such a claim, that Boeing is cooking its figures, without some very substantive evidence. I take it with a
100 Irishpower : Oh no, I get it. I understand the finger pointing that goes on. I'm not saying B doesn't participate in these tactics as well. All I'm saying is that
101 vfw614 : I think it is the other way around. If you read the article carefully, the ad appears to be just a slight detour in what may end up as litigation by
102 Stitch : I am inclined to disagree with this as I don't think they have that background and even if they did, they'd then also have the background to understa
103 Daysleeper : Got to say, my money would be on Boeing being a little bit too creative with their figures here, as It’s only a couple of years since they were cla
104 Post contains links zeke : You mean like when people from the US referred to Airbus aircraft as being plastic, and only "made in America" is synonymous with good quality ? This
105 Post contains links ETinCaribe : Honest question since i am curious about it - how then does anyone place firm orders for the NEO or MAX since none are in existence today? Are there
106 tarheelwings : You mean like the anti-US sentiment in Hong Kong? Considering a large percentage of Boeing product buyers are outside the US....this argument doesn't
107 frmrCapCadet : I would be interested in seeing whatever Boeing said.
108 Post contains links Daysleeper : A few years ago regulators in the US forced all airlines to state the planes country of manufacture on the saftey cards; details Here I'm not aware o
109 Post contains images seabosdca : I can think of a lot of examples of Boeing (just like Airbus) making performance claims that are exaggerated when considered in any realistic light.
110 tarheelwings : Was it considered vitally important by regulators.....or was it to satisfy some overzealous congressman....my vote is on the latter. Once again, even
111 Post contains images UA772IAD : I'm curious as to whom this ad is intended for? As stupid as this ad is, I don't think EADS is stupid enough to believe that airlines would pay any at
112 Daysleeper : What intent do you doubt? I stated that the only reason I can fathom as to why this information had to be printed on safety cards was to try and enco
113 Post contains images Stitch : The United States has "Country of Origin Identification" laws for slews of products. Motor vehicles is a major one, for example. Ford and GM build ca
114 delimit : Rather than random US bashing, why don't we try and stay on topic and talk about what Boeing has done; specifically in the media? You seem to want to
115 sxf24 : Perhaps you're judging Boeing's statement on a different definition of class than Boeing used. For example, the 747-8i flies further, faster, and car
116 Post contains images Daysleeper : Hmm.. Okay i'll concede that the US isn't quite as bad as communist China. -
117 Post contains images bikerthai : This is actually a very interesting premise. Boeing could in NO WAY publish accurate data of Airbus aircraft because if it does, then questions would
118 tdscanuck : That had better be non-English press. That's a terrible abuse of english grammer. That's nonsense and you know it. *Boeing*, like all the other OEM's
119 bikerthai : Thanks Tom for clarify that. I thought it was an Airbus Ad. I respectfully retract my comments. bt
120 Post contains links Pihero : The usual SNAFU and arrogance cum parochialism at A.net. Yeah, we know Boeing is whiter than white and the guys at Airbus are just a bunch of idiotic
121 Post contains images EPA001 : This is A-net. So that was to be expected. . But in reality both OEM's make advertisements like these. The one is no better or worse then the other i
122 Irishpower : Ahhh come on now. Are the two of you that myopic in your views? Don't project your xenophobia onto me. You can't assume all "Americans" are pro Boein
123 Pihero : You said it. Not I ! For the vast majority of the posters on this thread to look only at the Pinocchio nose without ever ever asking if there were a
124 AirframeAS : It's very, very, very close though!!!! It still qualifies as an A vs. B war. Read the thread again. And we're also all very used to Airbus' spin doct
125 BoeEngr : I don't like either the Boeing ad or the Airbus ad, but I think neither is as bad as some of the comments in this thread. The comments and accusations
126 Post contains images bikerthai : Sorry Irish, both Zeke and Pihero are pilots and have seen the world. And through my experience, those who have traveled far and wide have fewer xeno
127 Daysleeper : Very informative. Thanks. I'd assumed it would be Boeings unrealistic 467 seat 3-Class layout what had upset Airbus, it's something I've debated here
128 AirframeAS : Which ad? The one the OP posted?
129 Post contains links flood : The Boeing ad Pihero had linked to: http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2012...-the-advertising-battle-commenced/
130 Stitch : Travel helps, but I found education to be a more effective tutor. In terms of floor space, the 747-8 is ~35% larger than the 777-300ER and ~35% small
131 AirframeAS : Thanks for that. I disagree. The A380 is in a class all by itself.
132 Stitch : Well with only LH as a reference at the moment, it is true that the 747-8 is closer to the A340-600, 777-300ER and 747-400 than it is to the A380-800
133 Pihero : I.e Airbus, right?.. You should have kept on your piece and say that all of them have been exonerated from these charges. Of course, you have forgott
134 Post contains links zeke : Being a "white ghost" (translation of the common term locals call caucasians) I do get treated slightly differently here, it is minor like waiting at
135 uALWN : Well, have a look at the Boeing ad linked in reply #120: Boeing does compare the 748 to the 380, not to the 340. Yet, in the ad linked on reply #120
136 JoeCanuck : True...though travel doesn't cure xenophobia...the xenophobic tend to stay home. Because they are not xenophobic is why the open minded explore. This
137 Post contains images EPA001 : As usual a very well written post Zeke. I totally agree with you on this one. .
138 Irishpower : Look, I understand. I'm an American who has lived and worked (and currently still works/resides) in Europe for over 4 years. I've traveled the world
139 Post contains links vfw614 : What else is there to say: http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2012...tising-battle-commenced/#more-7110
140 zeke : LH IAH ? They would like to deploy the A380 to India, the goverment will not permit it, so that is also a dual market. KE LAX/JFK The aircraft are in
141 Post contains images bikerthai : Even within the same company, when there are proprietary agreement with a customer, it is illegal to share proprietary information without the approv
142 Daysleeper : I’ve just been reading though the 747-8 ProductionDelivery thread in which its stated that production slots for the 747 are available as early as Oc
143 Stitch : If Boeing wanted to keep 747-8 backlogs high, they need only lower the Average Sales Price, which certainly would erode margins and cost them a signif
144 sxf24 : While all of those facts are correct, the assumptions are questionable. It is impossible to conclude that wider seats and aisles, larger fan diameter
145 BoeEngr : Essentially correct. In round 2, which awarded the contract to EADS/NG, the USAF evaluation gave the 767 a higher survivability score. In round 3, wh
146 Post contains images BoeEngr : This was my understanding as well. Isn't this case closed? A single Boeing employee (Mike Sears) was fired and ultimately went to prison. How wonderf
147 Daysleeper : Perhaps that's the next move? Or perhaps they are already offering it at a much reduced price and are still struggling to gain orders? Not only that,
148 Stitch : Boeing have stated they have declined orders due to Boeing considering the price being offered as too low. So I'd be inclined to believe that Boeing
149 Daysleeper : Time change - It was no doubt much easier for Boeing to decline orders when they had enough of a backlog to keep production going at a good rate for
150 Pihero : Usual attempt to drown a fish : Mrs Druyun [b]already was[/b) a Boeing employee when things went boom, along with her daughter and her fiancee. Twist
151 uALWN : A single Boeing employee who happened to be Boeing's CFO...
152 Post contains images BoeEngr : Not trying to hide anything, and please don't accuse me of such. Just pointing out the reality of what happened. A Boeing employee and a former USAF
153 BoeEngr : Correct. No argument.
154 Stitch : I expect protecting the 777-300ER's strong Average Sales Price is the real reason for the "price floor" on the 747-8.
155 phxa340 : Comparing a military tanker and a civilian aircraft doesn't make any sense. Military aircraft are designed to withstand engagement. Boeing doesn't de
156 Pihero : I am really sorry, because I did not start this argument. I am really sorry that you almost consider as normal a situation wherein , just on the tank
157 BoeEngr : I'm really sorry you interpret my comments to state that I think the situation was "normal" when I certainly do not. People were fired, people went t
158 Post contains images bikerthai : Times has changed because even if the 747 line is low on order, low balling the price of the -8i just to get a back log does not make sense from the
159 tarheelwings : You obviously missed my point: the c Talk about a lack of reading comprehension, nowhere in BoeEngr's posts does he try to minimize the GRAVE errors a
160 Pihero : I already mentioned that English is not my native language and I readily admit I may sometimes misunderstand a post. Here, in his # 152, BoenEngr wro
161 BoeEngr : Okay, I'll accept some responsibility here. In rereading my post, I can see how the use of the smile could have been taken as sarcasm, but it definit
162 Post contains images bikerthai : LOL, civility prevails. I too do not take any smiley face on A-net as sarcasm. The smiley I usually take as playful banter. For sarcasm, I usually us
163 Post contains images Pihero : So, I apologise for having been rough on you. That was unwarranted. Regards
164 BoeEngr : No worries, mon ami.
165 zeke : I am sure they have kept the proprietary information safe locked up in a room somewhere, it was provided well before Jeppesen was purchased. They int
166 Post contains images JimJupiter : What's the fuzz about? The duopoly remains in place, and a PR stunt like this one is not going to change, but rather perpetuate it...
167 sxf24 : Customers don't pay more for an extra inch of seat width, a larger fan diameter, or fly by wire. Customers buy the lowest price ticket, which is usua
168 tdscanuck : There was no statement there that the KC-30 was poorly constructed or "plastic". Translating survivability in combat (which the USAF agreed with) int
169 neutronstar73 : I don't think that is hitting below the belt. Boeing was clearly referencing the Airbus FBW regime as compared to the 767's conventional control setu
170 Post contains links and images Bogi : Exciting story from @Bloomberg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7v47nXWzAs
171 pvjin : Lol a lot of conclusion from simple ad. No, Airbus is definitely not frustrated, they are doing just well and will eventually some day take back thei
172 zeke : Can you show me where airlines offer premium economy, business, first, and suite class seats for the same price as economy ? They do pay for FBW if i
173 raffik : I thought it was very funny and clever marketing actually. These two airlines will always be rivals, they are competing against one another. If Airbus
174 Post contains images EPA001 : I guess they still are in that position. They already have been for quite some years and are intending to stay in that position for quite some time t
175 Post contains images CXB77L : I find it somewhat amusing at how frequently some members think lawsuits should be filed ... The 737-8MAX has a 12 seat advantage over the A320neo. I
176 sxf24 : I never said the words you're trying to put in my mouth. Marginal differences in cabin width don't impact revenue - I.e. no one pays $1 more for a 1"
177 Post contains images bikerthai : Ah but they do . . . when ever people upgrade using their travel miles . . . but I guess you can say that those travel miles are not free either . .
178 Post contains images CM : Actually, it can, and it does on the A320. Maneuver Load Alleviation saves a couple hundred lbs of OEW for the A320 by reducing the loads the structu
179 tdscanuck : The A380 was launched in Dec 2000 with 50 orders. Since that time, it has gathered a total of 257 orders (source: Airbus.com). Since Dec 2000 the 747
180 sxf24 : I think the comparison is between the A320 and 737. Trying to paint FBW as a competitive advantage for a narrowbody aircraft is disingenuous. Both te
181 zeke : The density is actually higher, see below. We are talking about the same airline, I suggest we will see a much lower seat count again at Korean. Not
182 sxf24 : If that's the case, why do A320s have more structure than 737s carry lower loads?
183 Post contains links and images flood : Not quite as provocative, but it seems we have a new one: eta, a bit easier to read here: http://twitter.com/e_russell/status/274560865393582080/photo
184 CM : The higher A320 OEW (relative to the 737) comes from many things, not all of which are related to the structural strength of the aircraft. Here are j
185 sxf24 : So a higher OEW to carry fewer passengers and cargo is a good thing because you get additional features that you probably won't use?
186 tdscanuck : It's not disingenuous, it's true. FBW is simpler, lighter, more reliable, and easier to maintain. There are some niche situations where non-FBW is su
187 Post contains images bikerthai : Ah, but the wider seat feature (because of the wider fuselage) is used everyday by every A320 passenger bt[Edited 2012-11-30 11:46:10]
188 bikerthai : From the ad . . . "you don't get a choice of engine" The original intent of having only one engines for the 737 NG & now the MAX is the attempt b
189 CXB77L : Perhaps density is not the right word, but it is definitely a more premium-heavy configuration on the 747-8. LH has F and J ahead of door 3 on the ma
190 Daysleeper : There is no reason it can’t – In fact it may well do. The point is Boeing manipulated the figures by using almost 10” more pitch on the A380 J
191 Post contains links mffoda : Here's an interesting piece from a NON A-netter, without an ax to grind. Regarding this type of advertising. "Airbus Boeing Ad War Is Just Plane Stupi
192 SchorschNG : To be honest, a number of Boeing advertisements were actually quite rubbish. That doesn't mean I really consider the Airbus thing a good more, but the
193 CM : It's a comparison of revenue cargo volume. At the seat counts described (467/555), once you put all the passenger bags in the hold, the 748 has 30% m
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