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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 122  
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2268 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23717 times:
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Continue discussion here. The last part can be found here:

New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 121 (by ZKOJH Oct 29 2012 in Civil Aviation)

NZ1
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229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 23739 times:

Zk-OKP is on approach for the WLG flyover right now... And I think FR24 lost him at 2700ft.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineMegatop747-412 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 23717 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):

Just saw it "from the top" via One News Live Broadcast - totally awesome. But wished we were back in Welly to witness it though!  


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4280 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 23537 times:

Looked great from atop Mt Vic. Flew straight up Kent Tce.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 23381 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 3):
Looked great from atop Mt Vic. Flew straight up Kent Tce.

OKP departed AKL at 1624, 38,000 ft at 1637, descent at 1649, two circuits off Queen Charlotte Sound at 9,300 ft, over Island Bay at 1,400 ft, Kent Tce / Cambridge Tce at 1,300 ft, back in AKL at 1815. Good rate of climb.

Also, QFA27 SYD-SCL overflew WLG at 1640 and RAAF Challenger A37-002 as 'ASY343' arrived WLG from CBR at 1708.

PA515


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 22909 times:
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Just booked a WLG-AKL-LAX and return flight for christmas and I was able to see/select my seats before I paid. How long has NZ allowed this? Didn't see the option when I booked a flight to AKL two days before the new seat purchase choices took effect!

Also booked a US F fare to DTW after reading/talking to Koruman about US fares and looking at UAs fares/options and yip US was certainly cheaper in EVERY fare class - especially F and NZs connecting fares. Thank you Kman for the advice! After booking I then discovered something that well......made me a little unhappy......I could have booked a Dreamliner ticket from Houstan - LAX at the time I was wanting!


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 22721 times:

''Air NZ to extend partnership with Cathay to other Asian cities''

Air New Zealand's strategic partnership with Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific Airways will "in time" expand beyond the Auckland-Hong Kong route to include parts of southern China and Southeast Asia, the airline's chief executive, Rob Fyfe, said.

Fyfe said on the sidelines of a Star Alliance gathering in Shenzhen that expanding the Cathay Pacific tie-up won't be easy.

"There are some constraints or respect we'd need to show to our alliance partners in terms of working with a member of another alliance," Fyfe told The Wall Street Journal.

He said the development of its strategic tie-up with Cathay Pacific would take place "only in areas where we don't have a viable Star Alliance solution". These include Southeast Asian countries like Vietnam and Malaysia, he said.

http://www.cargonewsasia.com/

We can rule out NZ flying to Vietnam or Malaysia in the future then



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineNZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22658 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 5):
Just booked a WLG-AKL-LAX and return flight for christmas and I was able to see/select my seats before I paid. How long has NZ allowed this? Didn't see the option when I booked a flight to AKL two days before the new seat purchase choices took effect!

A few weeks, I'm very surprised this whole project hasn't been brought up here to be honest. It's been on the cards for a few years now.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
We can rule out NZ flying to Vietnam or Malaysia in the future then

Was it every ruled in? I mean AKL-HAN or AKL-SGN? Then, head to head with MH to KUL, on point to point traffic only? As well as all European traffic is trying to be forced over PVG and all Asian traffic is trying to be moved over HKG.

There is more network news coming in the near future.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22635 times:
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Quoting NZ6 (Reply 7):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 5):Just booked a WLG-AKL-LAX and return flight for christmas and I was able to see/select my seats before I paid. How long has NZ allowed this? Didn't see the option when I booked a flight to AKL two days before the new seat purchase choices took effect!
A few weeks, I'm very surprised this whole project hasn't been brought up here to be honest. It's been on the cards for a few years now.

Well I guess good things take time. Guess it also puts to rest the problem many passengers have of not being able to see what seats are still free before booking, even if it means you've got to do a 50% dummy booking first to see if the seats you want are there like I did.


User currently offlineNZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 22463 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
Well I guess good things take time. Guess it also puts to rest the problem many passengers have of not being able to see what seats are still free before booking, even if it means you've got to do a 50% dummy booking first to see if the seats you want are there like I did.

Its part of the paid seat and pre paid bag project, the time was spent in IT development. The potential of these enhancements are now endless.

The benefit isn't design to be you seeing the seat map prior to payment (there is still hight risk that someone wont complete a booking based on not have their ideal seat available).The basis of this is to allow passengers to purchase their seat preference or excess baggage.

Depending on who you are the "good things take time" may not be so good


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22405 times:

IIRC It was available as an option from about the 14th to prepay your baggage, pay for a priority seat or assign yourself a seat for all flights after about the 22nd November. Golds can still select a bassinet or exit row FOC. At the same time Golds can now select a seat only fare and still check in 1 bag@23KG.

Yes it has been a long time, and if I had the choice I would have implemented it all at the same as the S2S was introduced, but US DoT once again forced the hand of the airlines with direct services to the USA to streamline all the baggage charges, so that all the baggage fees for an itinerary must now be charged at Origin, not at Point of Transfer.


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22398 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 10):
At the same time Golds can now select a seat only fare and still check in 1 bag@23KG.

When was this announced? I must have missed it. I can't see this being updated on NZ website though.


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 22220 times:

I was lucky enough to get ZK-MVA on a ROT-CHC flight yesterday, and want to echo the already glowing comments of both the outside and inside. Felt very spacious for a narrow-body turboprop and don't know if it was just me but it seemed quieter than the ATR-72 500 and other turboprop. Great little aircraft!


Travel is my thing
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 22199 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 7):

A few weeks, I'm very surprised this whole project hasn't been brought up here to be honest. It's been on the cards for a few years now.

About 5 years after most other airlines... NZ has really dragged the ball on this one!



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 22169 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 7):
A few weeks, I'm very surprised this whole project hasn't been brought up here to be honest. It's been on the cards for a few years now.

Strange you didn't say so on the many occasions I've raised it in the last 3 years.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 9):
The potential of these enhancements are now endless.

It's pretty clunky compared to most other sites. You have to go through the complete booking process, short of paying, before you can see the seats. On most other airline sites, you can just select a flight and see what's available.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 9):

The benefit isn't design to be you seeing the seat map prior to payment (there is still hight risk that someone wont complete a booking based on not have their ideal seat available).

What a 1960's "we know what's good for you" attitude. This doesn't seem to be an issue for most other airlines. In my case, if I can't get a satisfactory seat on AC when it matters (e.g. red-eye YVR-YOW), I just look for alternate flights (on AC first). End result - I'm happy I'm not in a window/middle seat on a 5+ hour transcon, AC gets my repeat business because I can view available seats prior to booking.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineNZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 22027 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 11):
When was this announced? I must have missed it. I can't see this being updated on NZ website though.

It's on there, go and make a booking and you will see the options.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
About 5 years after most other airlines... NZ has really dragged the ball on this one!

Has it really?

Interesting comment and really shows your knowledge of where Air NZ is at, what it's working towards and where they are at with customer interaction.

I don't mean that to be a personal attack I just don't think you're aware of the bigger picture here.

I don't know if "dragging the ball' is the right analogy here when as you've seen over the past few years the introduction of more and more "add-on's" such as insurance, seats to suit, sky couch, credit card fees, grabaseat+bag, One Up etc

When you have a strategy like this you want to ensure they are launched when the right IT inferstructure is in place and when the time is best suited for customers, for example you will note this all started with a low impact credit card fee several years ago. Also other projects have taken priority and as I said earlier this IT work now opens the door to many more possibilities.

It will be interesting to see the annual results mid next year when QF announces another massive loss and NZ reports a profit again. I wonder then if some will still continue to pick apart NZ's performance and changes.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
Strange you didn't say so on the many occasions I've raised it in the last 3 years.

And why would I share this confidential information on these forums?

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
It's pretty clunky compared to most other sites.

That's a matter of opinion, personally I find it fantastic and I find the seats maps easier to read than other sites.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
"we know what's good for you

As I said, the seat map is in there as way of "selling" something extra, there is strong opinion that offering a seat map when there an't 'good' seats available would deter potential purchasers. Personally I would go with the experts on this, the have done the industry research and watch user usage on the website so they know what customers look for and want.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 21918 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
It will be interesting to see the annual results mid next year when QF announces another massive loss and NZ reports a profit again

I know both the initial projections for profits generated by this latest change, and the projections after the first 2 weeks of sales, and it will certainly help the bottom line in no small way.

Personally I think all the changes are fair and reasonable and for everyone who keeps within the bell curve (particularly regarding the prepaid luggage) they will find it advantageous.
Couples, Families and small groups now have a way of ensuring that they are getting seated together even if they do not book together without running the risk at the airport.
Seat only passengers have a means of not being sat down the back if they choose a priority/forward seat
Infants who require bassinets pay for them.
Tall people who cannot afford business or PE but who currently always miss out on exit rows gain a way of ensuring a seat is to their liking.
space seats are available for purchase at the airport (space available) which are a bargain for a 12h flight!

All I will say, as a single passenger I finally feel like I have options onboard NZ now - single customers having previously been shafted to fit between every other group on the plane.
The onus is on me as an informed consumer to decide what I value and whether or not I am prepared to pay to guarantee a specific seat.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 21918 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
Interesting comment and really shows your knowledge of where Air NZ is at, what it's working towards and where they are at with customer interaction.
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
When you have a strategy like this you want to ensure they are launched when the right IT inferstructure is in place and when the time is best suited for customers

Reading another discussion board and it sounds like the customer interaction hasn't been that great with this new scheme. IT had a few hiccups as well with some not so happy customers (high value ones too apparantly)


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 21862 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
It will be interesting to see the annual results mid next year when QF announces another massive loss and NZ reports a profit again. I wonder then if some will still continue to pick apart NZ's performance and changes.

To be fair, NZ's success or otherwise should not be measured by how QF is performing. I am sure anyone will agree that NZ does't have the level of competition (both domestic and international) and the very ugly politics QF has to face everyday. NZ has most of their domestic and long haul routes to itself. The only long haul route ex AKL which they have direct competition will end up with an alliance with that very competitor (CX). I can't imagine similar pact getting regulatory approval in Australia. They are also allowed to established a Shanghai base where crew are paid Chinese rates. QF's unions would never let that happen.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 21782 times:
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Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
It's pretty clunky compared to most other sites.

That's a matter of opinion, personally I find it fantastic and I find the seats maps easier to read than other sites.

I thought the seat map was well presented and very easy to read compared to when I was looking at the US and UA seat maps several days ago for flights in the USA

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 17):
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
Interesting comment and really shows your knowledge of where Air NZ is at, what it's working towards and where they are at with customer interaction.
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
When you have a strategy like this you want to ensure they are launched when the right IT inferstructure is in place and when the time is best suited for customers

Reading another discussion board and it sounds like the customer interaction hasn't been that great with this new scheme. IT had a few hiccups as well with some not so happy customers (high value ones too apparantly)

I booked a few weeks ago a WLG-AKL day trip and couldn't select a seat on the WLG-AKL sector but could on the 'night rider' service coming back. The same thing happened last week after booking the NZ LAX sector, couldn't select the AKL-LAX seat but could on the other 3 flight. Phoned NZ reservations and a few mins later could select a seat. Teething problems maybe?


User currently offlineNZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 21728 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 16):
I know both the initial projections for profits generated by this latest change, and the projections after the first 2 weeks of sales, and it will certainly help the bottom line in no small way.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 18):
To be fair, NZ's success or otherwise should not be measured by how QF is performing. I am sure anyone will agree that NZ does't have the level of competition (both domestic and international) and the very ugly politics QF has to face everyday.

I didn't mean to allude to the fact that this one or these projects will be the difference but overall they will all contribute to the bottom line.

Compare QF and NZ - QF is still flying around a fleet of aging 767 and 747's and in my opinion is doing all it can to keep it's in-flight product at a minimal level. They have had to cut half their 787 order and JQ and QF domestic are all but the only areas of the Qantas Group which is prevents them from being another Pam Am

NZ on the other hand has positioned itself well given the 787 was to be a game changer in 2009 or 2010 (I can't recall originally).

It's developing the China market well (to Koruman's horror) even though China is the fastest growing inbound market for New Zealand. Koruman will now claim it's low cost tourist that fly that route, well 74% of NZ's market is leisure.

You've seen NZ claim back $20+M in credit card fees, you've seen all 10% the growth in the Tasman go to NZ after the seats to suit option, you've seen the alliance with DJ be a winner for everyone.

DPS, MCY were successful, PER is now a 777 and LAX is back to 14x a week
PVG is working towards weekly

If you know the figures for what this latest add-on is predicted to earn annually then you'll need to increase it as it's increased already, you add that as 100% profit to the bottom line and when you're earning $70M a year (average) you'll know this is invaluable.

Do I need to go on?

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 17):
Reading another discussion board and it sounds like the customer interaction hasn't been that great with this new scheme. IT had a few hiccups as well with some not so happy customers (high value ones too apparantly)

I believe so as well, so to quote zkpilot, is NZ "dragging the ball?" probably not. Does this change need to happen, probably if NZ wants to increase revenue. Is there a right time for this? No, did NZ wait as long as possible to ensure the right measures where in place to build on it. Yes!


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21511 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 19):
I thought the seat map was well presented and very easy to read compared to when I was looking at the US and UA seat maps several days ago for flights in the USA

I agree the seat map itself is well presented. By clunky, I meant that you have to go all the way through entering pax info etc before you can see the map.

For example, from YOW I can fly NZ to AKL via LAX, SFO or YVR. If I'm bringing family, I have to enter complete information for 5 pax in three separate "dummy" bookings in order to look at available seating. On most other airlines' sites, I can enter the flights and see what's available.

But at least it's better than guessing which route will have the best available seats, which is what I've always had to do, and being thoroughly pissed off when I find myself in 26B on a 744.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
there is strong opinion that offering a seat map when there an't 'good' seats available would deter potential purchasers. Personally I would go with the experts on this

I guess other airlines must have different experts. AC's experience is that most pax are indifferent or will simply select the best that's available. Some, like me, will consider different flights/routings, but I'll ultimately be a happy return pax because I won't find myself stuck in an uncomfortable seat.

Another thing that AC does (well), is to present different available seats depending on FF status. If I'm flying Y, I'm almost always able to select a seat in the first 2 rows.

For me, being able to see the available seats is also useful when I want to use an upgrade credit. I'll choose an AC flight that has the most available J to maximize the likelihood of the upgrade being available. I realize that that's not applicable to NZ, which auctions upgrades.

Which brings me to another reason that I've taken my business (about $50K per year) elsewhere than NZ after 54 years. NZ represents itself as permitting *A points upgrades, but it doesn't in practice. After fruitless correspondence with NZ (stock PR responses which don't address my issue), I've finally written to *A pointing out that this is misrepresentation and suggesting that NZ be removed from the list of carriers on the *A website that offer points upgrades.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineNZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 21439 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 21):
I guess other airlines must have different experts. AC's experience is that most pax are indifferent or will simply select the best that's available

AC operates in a completely different environment to NZ and comparing them wouldn't be that accurate, NZ's premium customers by in large get their favourable seating, the 74% leisure market aren't all seat driven entirely.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
if I can't get a satisfactory seat on AC when it matters (e.g. red-eye YVR-YOW), I just look for alternate flights (on AC first). End result

And it's just this reason NZ was wary of including seat maps prior to payment. What if you can't see you're ideal seat or 2 seats together? you book elsewhere and if you're leisure / price sensitive you may book on someone else when NZ probably can still accommodate you request once "other" seats are made available.

It's almost like the saying - you don't know what you're missing till you've lost something.

It pays to remember that half a dozen or so opinions on this forum don't represent the 11.7 million passengers NZ carries each year. We should be discussing what needs to happen to accommodate the majority aside from what personally suits us individually.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 18):
To be fair, NZ's success or otherwise should not be measured by how QF is performing

OneUp, OneSmart, Seats to Suit, Paid Seat, Pre Paid Baggage, Skycouch...

If all of these initiatives generated $10M per year, that would be $60M, add that to an average profit in recent years of $70M - you end up with $130M profit.

Someone remind me what QF has done in recent years?


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 21278 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
It pays to remember that half a dozen or so opinions on this forum don't represent the 11.7 million passengers NZ carries each year. We should be discussing what needs to happen to accommodate the majority aside from what personally suits us individually.

That's completely fair. On the other hand, I'll travel on what suits me personally - and NZ is $50K a year poorer.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 21248 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
It pays to remember that half a dozen or so opinions on this forum don't represent the 11.7 million passengers NZ carries each year. We should be discussing what needs to happen to accommodate the majority aside from what personally suits us individually.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 23):
That's completely fair. On the other hand, I'll travel on what suits me personally - and NZ is $50K a year poorer.

And you can add another $80K or so from my family. So Kaiarahi + 4 Korufamily = approx 130 casual short-haul/Tasman passengers.

I don't object to the idea of ancillary revenue, at all. I think its rank bad business to antagonise your HVCs any more than necessary when your long-haul fleet is so reliant upon a 1-2-1 Business cabin and a 2-2-2 Premium Economy one.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 21334 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 18):
To be fair, NZ's success or otherwise should not be measured by how QF is performing.

Agreed. Especially when the comparison tends to be pretty superficial. QF's losing big on international now (though isn't NZ as well?), but when the good times return, it generally outperforms on an earnings per share basis.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
Compare QF and NZ - QF is still flying around a fleet of aging 767 and 747's and in my opinion is doing all it can to keep it's in-flight product at a minimal level.

Some would argue this is just maximising your capital investment, squeezing every last dollar out of them. Admittedly, this is affected by diminishing returns, which QF is probably in the throws of now.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
They have had to cut half their 787 order and JQ and QF domestic are all but the only areas of the Qantas Group which is prevents them from being another Pam Am

Isn't it generally the same for NZ? Domestic is the profit maker and international the loss maker? At least it seemed to be for the past 5 or so years and it certainly was post Ansett-collapse.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
NZ on the other hand has positioned itself well

For what, takeover? Merger?

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
It's developing the China market well (to Koruman's horror)

Actually didn't Koruman always argue the airline should put 767s on the Chinese market? Oh look, they're doing that now.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
Koruman will now claim it's low cost tourist that fly that route, well 74% of NZ's market is leisure.

Huh? How is that even an argument? And for what?

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
you've seen the alliance with DJ be a winner for everyone.

Nice spin. I haven't seen DJ expand its trans-Tasman offering lately. Has it expanded its Pacific Island flights? No? Oh. "Winning".

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 21):
I guess other airlines must have different experts.

It would seem so.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
NZ's premium customers by in large get their favourable seating

"By in large"?? What kind of metric is that? 51%? 99%? I'd have thought given their oft-stated importance, they'd get their preference (when expressed).

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
What if you can't see you're ideal seat or 2 seats together? you book elsewhere and if you're leisure / price sensitive you may book on someone else when NZ probably can still accommodate you request once "other" seats are made available.

Wow that's a lot of weight to pile on to seat selection as a consumer's deciding factor. Evidently the feeling is that too much information is dangerous. Odd approach, which things like the internet usually "solve" for consumers.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
We should be discussing what needs to happen to accommodate the majority aside from what personally suits us individually.

But the majority ofor NZ are still back-of-the-bus, cheap arse parasites, right? (Note: I can say that because I relish being one.) It's all about premium, no? Isn't that where the airline makes its money (or loses it)?

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 22):
Someone remind me what QF has done in recent years?

In my experience, their frequent flyer programme is a hell of a lot easier, more beneficial for me and has genuinely influenced my flight selections - easier to earn, never had a problem redeeming. Not to mention, they've turned their loyalty programme into a huge money spinner, while NZ continues to treat it as a liability.

They've also done pretty well on domestic given the competitive push from Virgin. Though they've made mistakes too, QF has been lumbered with a highly unionised workforce that hey've finally started to address.

They've also sorted out (almost) a tie-up with THE name in commercial aviation - Emirates.

The quesiton is - how has NZ readied itself for a leaner, meaner QF backed by the behemoth in commercial aviation? It painted its tails black, tweaked its website and commoditised even more of former ticket-inclusive features. Short-term revenue benefit but will it last? So when a stronger competition emerges that provides for all-inclusive fares, what will be the market repsonse? Because let's face it, NZ's been lucky with QF's relative inactivity in the New Zealand market for the past few years. Are they assuming the future will be likewise? They removed VA as competition - tick. They can't do that with QF. The introduced S2S - tick. But the competition has been increasingly JQ rather than QF. Will that still be the case in the future?


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21280 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
It's developing the China market well (to Koruman's horror) even though China is the fastest growing inbound market for New Zealand. Koruman will now claim it's low cost tourist that fly that route, well 74% of NZ's market is leisure.

I don't understand the criticism here.

I don't object to China-New Zealand air services, not at all.

I just think that they require aircraft configured completely differently to LAX, SFO, YVR, HNL and even PER. It's a waste of money having a Premium Economy cabin and it's equally wasteful having Business Premier as opposed to Business Class recliners.

I would have a high-density 2 class 767 or even 747, using cheap recliner seats for Business Class. The model should be what the likes of Thomas Cook and Thomson use to fly from London Gatwick to Cancun, a comparable distance and a comparable package holiday demographic.

And I think we should be realistic. Auckland-Shanghai is actually further than the distance to extend NZ5/6 from Los Angeles to Manchester, and the latter route would be substantially easier to sell premium seating on.

But PR China is several decades behind Hong Kong in the development of air travel, especially high-yielding outward air travel. If HKG-LHR cannot work, there needs to be scrutiny of how best to operate AKL-PVG.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21444 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
well 74% of NZ's market is leisure

I apologise for the sneeringly elitist tone that I am going to reply in.

There is leisure travel, and there is leisure travel.

Air New Zealand failed to show any understanding that, for example, the Bora Bora market is different to the Western Samoa market, and they persisted in sending the same 763 with 90% Economy seating, no Premium Economy and no lie-flat beds.

Similarly, two years ago there were 9 weekly flights from Australia to Hawaii on a mixture of A332 and 763 aircraft. Now there are 28 such flights. Air New Zealand has gone up from 2 763s per week to, erm, 2 763s.

Quite frankly, I don't think that Air New Zealand is very good at managing the inbound leisure market from North America and Asia, or the outbound one to Hawaii and Tahiti or the transiting one from Australia.

They can handle low-yield leisure like Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, Fiji, Rarotonga and Bali. But high-yielding leisure is something that goes right over their heads. To use an expression from Northern England, they have trouble distinguishing their a**e from their elbow.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 21388 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 27):
Similarly, two years ago there were 9 weekly flights from Australia to Hawaii on a mixture of A332 and 763 aircraft. Now there are 28 such flights. Air New Zealand has gone up from 2 763s per week to, erm, 2 763s.

Yeah it's a funny one. The main driver for this seems to be the appreciation of the Aussie dollar against the US, which makes sense - you get more bang for your buck. Well, the New Zealand dollar has appreciated as well yet traffic has been accommodated by 2-3 services per week, briefly bumping up to 777s for part of the year.

A lot of the Australian growth is coming from Hawaiian, of course and the same is due to happen into AKL (cannot WAIT to see those beauties on the tarmac). True, Hawaiian offers onward connections, but why was this not foreseen after their success in the Australian market? Where did NZ think HA was going to put all those Airbuses on order? Did they consider teaming up with Hawaiian, codesharing on the route and arrange onward conenctions to the continental US? Or did they just drop the ball on this one? Perhaps NZ figured it would dilute their LAX and SFO routes.

I suspect we're going to see Hawaiian excel here as it has in Australia, establishing itself as a long-term competitor.

I recognise the counterargument - the demand just wasn't there - but evidently it was, with Hawaiian upping capacity before the route even started. It would seem they stimulated a latent market that NZ has increasingly ignored or just plain overlooked. I wonder if it harks back to a lack of suitable equipment, i.e. too few 767s.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21382 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 28):
Yeah it's a funny one. The main driver for this seems to be the appreciation of the Aussie dollar against the US, which makes sense - you get more bang for your buck. Well, the New Zealand dollar has appreciated as well yet traffic has been accommodated by 2-3 services per week, briefly bumping up to 777s for part of the year.

I suspect we're going to see Hawaiian excel here as it has in Australia, establishing itself as a long-term competitor.

I recognise the counterargument - the demand just wasn't there - but evidently it was, with Hawaiian upping capacity before the route even started. It would seem they stimulated a latent market that NZ has increasingly ignored or just plain overlooked. I wonder if it harks back to a lack of suitable equipment, i.e. too few 767s.

When I was two years out from university - which was 1994-95 - I used to work in Takapuna. My secretary was a spinster who used to go with her girlfriends to Waikiki every winter, and she loved it.

The awful exchange rate between 1996-2004 certainly put a brake on demand for trips to the USA for people paid in Kiwi dollars, but again Air New Zealand's appalling "one island fits all" mentality has shot themselves in the foot. They have been happy to funnel tourists to Fiji and Rarotonga and just haven't cottoned on to the fact that Kiwis love Hawaii not just for the beaches but also the shops and the affordable dining out.

Also, I suspect, they have wanted to keep fares artificially inflated in a monopoly market for as long as they could. It's only a 7000 km flight - fares should be much closer to the $900 Economy and $2600 Business Class return levels that Jetstar has from Sydney. The currency change more or less negates the difference in distance.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 21360 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
When I was two years out from university - which was 1994-95 - I used to work in Takapuna. My secretary was a spinster who used to go with her girlfriends to Waikiki every winter, and she loved it.

Yeah, I had family who'd been wanting to go there for years, but found it too pricey on NZ, FJ had stopped offering connections and they weren't comfortable going via JQ, given its record for atrocious reliability and the fact it was quite indirect (though I tried to convince them it was only a few hours more each way, they pointe dout that it added up to about 10 hours of extra travel in total).

They waited three years to save, spending the rest of the time holidaying in Fiji and Samoa. But they got to Hawaii this year (on NZ), loved it and now want to go back every year. If they'd been able to earlier, they would've gone. Now, they're converts, they're taking HA. NZ, you there?

I guess we all have little anecdotes like this, but it's not the first time I've heard it. Presumably NZ has better market research, and it is about putting your resources where you earn the best return, but you do wonder.

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
Also, I suspect, they have wanted to keep fares artificially inflated in a monopoly market for as long as they could. It's only a 7000 km flight - fares should be much closer to the $900 Economy and $2600 Business Class return levels that Jetstar has from Sydney. The currency change more or less negates the difference in distance.

Yeah and you can understand the thinking. But you can only do that for so long before a competitor notices and moves in to undercut - I just wish it would happen on the Japan routes where NZ used to (do they still?) try and get away with $2,000 return fares, which was a joke, forcing people via Thailand, Tahiti and Australia. Is it similar to Hawaii? Could lower fares/competition stimulate a surge in traffic? Maybe, though the Japanese do have pretty unique travelling behaviour, whereas I suspect Kiwis would jump on the opportunity.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 21197 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
LAX is back to 14x a week

QF leaving the route has surely helped there too.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 20):
PVG is working towards weekly

Daily you mean  
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
We can rule out NZ flying to Vietnam or Malaysia in the future then

I think that was quite clear anyway. They are likely too thin to make work.

Overall. NZ has made a few smart moves lately, especially around the CX partnership.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21049 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 28):
I wonder if it harks back to a lack of suitable equipment, i.e. too few 767s.

I would agree. Hind sight is 20:20 but they should have kept the ( was it) three 767's that they returned three or four years ago. They took a gamble on the 789 being on time and lost. If they had stayed with some of their original 788 order they could have been operating these since early 2012. Even at EIS weights, and as ANA showed, they could be operating 12hr sectors with 242 passengers and ~7t of cargo. Better than what they can do with the 767.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 20963 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 32):
They took a gamble on the 789 being on time and lost.

It seems they have gambled on this over a few fleet and upgrade decisions and have lost a few times, and somehow they still think the 789 is the solution to everything in the long haul market. If they have not put all their eggs in the 789, they would have a stronger 763 and 777 fleet, and be able to retire all 744 earlier. It appears NZ does need a 763 size fleet, which they won't have in the future once the 763 retire, and their solution to the problem is to pull out or reduce frequency on routes that don't have the demand for a 789 size aircraft, or get into bed with their competitors like with CX.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 18):
The only long haul route ex AKL which they have direct competition will end up with an alliance with that very competitor (CX).

I suspect that this arrangement will allow NZ to reduce frequency on AKL-HKG in the future, which NZ is going to do. On days NZ doesn't operate on their own metal, they would still be able to put passengers on CX flights and have daily connection to HKG and China. Before NZ started HKG-LHR, their AKL-HKG flights never get full outside peak holiday periods, whether they operate with 763 or 772, especially on the Mon-Wed flights. It is a shame for the customers really, we used to have a choice, now we don't.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 20587 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

NZ have shared NZ107s photo of the All Black 77W landing at AKL on their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/#!/AirNewZealand

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 20402 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 33):
It is a shame for the customers really, we used to have a choice, now we don't.

You have plenty of options, given that New Zealand is such a small isolated island market with low population density. CX/KE/TG/NZ/QF/MH/SQ/CZ/CI all have competitive fares on the route AND to any of the destinations covered by the agreement. In reality there is still plenty of choice, and even though CX/NZ have an agreement I don't see too much in the way of passenger overlap, just a few more competitive fare options at more times of the day to the less common asian destinations, They cater for different clientele, and all it will do is share the demographic across both carriers more

Besides, if the flights are as empty currently off peak as you suggest then the market is not big enough to sustain 21 direct flights weekly - If the passengers choose not to make use of a service they have to expect that the service will go or at least be reduced. This would be true regardless of any arrangement that NZ/CX may have. On the other hand, the NZ/VA alliance has grown both the trans tasman market size and their own market share , so I don't see this being any different. There's plenty of things to apparently be concerned about with NZ, but I don't think this is one of them


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20119 times:

Wow.. AKL looks like a huge mess right now.. NZ102 has been on the tarmac for well over an hour. Must be a couple of other international flights waiting for gates too.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19861 times:

AKL was closed for a couple of hours today AFAIK. A few flights delayed for departure out of other domestic ports as there was no gate space in AKL. Very chaotic day for the whole NZ network

User currently offlinehaggis73 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19779 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 36):
Wow.. AKL looks like a huge mess right now.. NZ102 has been on the tarmac for well over an hour. Must be a couple of other international flights waiting for gates too.
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 37):
AKL was closed for a couple of hours today AFAIK. A few flights delayed for departure out of other domestic ports as there was no gate space in AKL. Very chaotic day for the whole NZ network

AKL Airport refuelling operations shut down from 1200-1730 due to lightning strikes in the vicinity. AIAL Emergency Operations Centre opened at 1630 due to AKL reaching saturation point for aircraft on ground. CZ305 directed to divert to CHC, ignored divert instructions, landed at AKL. NZ102 was close to 2 hours on the ground after arrival before taxiing down to hanger 3 & offloading passengers and bussing them back up to the international terminal along with 3 other NZ aircraft.

In all the years I have worked at AKL, this was the worst I have ever seen it.

24 International refuels in 2.5 hours, just under 1.1 million litres.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19759 times:

Quoting haggis73 (Reply 38):
AIAL Emergency Operations Centre opened at 1630 due to AKL reaching saturation point for aircraft on ground.

I highly doubt a 5.5 hour halt in refueling would cause the airport to reach saturation point! Very busy yes.
There is plenty of space at AKL the mx area is also capable of handling quite a bit of overflow if needed.
Still I bet no-one has seen AKL that busy until today. I say they need to get on with building the 2nd runway, and extending the A380 pier (2 more A380 capable gates).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19727 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 39):

Well if the outbound Asian wave never leaves, you're stuck with a heck of a lot of other arrivals wanting space at the gates! Doesn't help either when 2 A380s take up those 2 gates - there's 4 narrowbodies. So that's CX, MH, SQ, EK x3, TN, LA, NZ's numerous, QF, JQ, FJ..

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 39):
and extending the A380 pier (2 more A380 capable gates).

Indeed. That should probably be more of a priority than the new runway..

Quoting haggis73 (Reply 38):

Insane! Thanks for that info.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19665 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 39):
I highly doubt a 5.5 hour halt in refueling would cause the airport to reach saturation point!

then you would be wrong. It did reach saturation point as Haggis73 said, NZ136 diverted because of this.

Layovers 17,18,70,71,72,73,75,76,77,78,83,84,17,18,19 plus the taxiway gates all occupied by 'landed' aircraft, Hangar, Gates 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,15,16 all occupied. The Airport Gate allocation sheet was a sea of red "clashes" . This was beyond anything I have personally dealt with, including 70kt winds and the runway closure.

Airport fuel lines from Wiri had to be reset to repressurise the lines. I lost track of all the layover deparures but LA,QF56,QF126,QF44, SB,NZ739 were just the ones that I spotted around the height of the problem. Then there were the airlines that I don't deal with like JQ,CX,SQ,MH VA which were also subject to holding for a gate,towing off gates or bus ops. There were physically not enough steps, they were taking airstairs off one arrival to unload the next arrival, to take off to apply back to the original departure again...


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19609 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 39):
There is plenty of space at AKL the mx area is also capable of handling quite a bit of overflow if needed

They didn't allow check in for our flights due to no gate space, pax kept waiting alot of the time. A/C weren't even cleared to start at other ports due to the lack of space at AKL so it did happen (This from a domestic standpoint)

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 39):
Still I bet no-one has seen AKL that busy until today. I say they need to get on with building the 2nd runway, and extending the A380 pier (2 more A380 capable gates).

Agree, better to be well prepared with more spaces than you need than have this kind of shambles going on. Extend the pier and build the new Domestic terminal already


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19624 times:

Where did NZ136 go, I presume only CHC has a long enough runway for a wide body?

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19598 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):

Sure did. I'd say it's probably more to do with the fact that CHC has the capability and room to handle a 772 internationally; and the far less risky place to operate into/out of.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19605 times:

Yup, NZ136 went to CHC.


I had a mate that was on NZ934, they waited on the ground for 3hours before being towed to a gate to get off!


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19584 times:

Quoting haggis73 (Reply 38):
CZ305 directed to divert to CHC, ignored divert instructions, landed at AKL.

Whoa whoa whoa! Can an aircraft simply ignore an instruction to divert?

Wow sounds like quite the scene at AKL. Anyone manage to grab any snaps in the ensuing chaos?

In slightly other news, I saw a 2 page spread an a recent edition of Airliner World of the Mt Cook black ATR72. Booootiful!


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19562 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 46):
Whoa whoa whoa! Can an aircraft simply ignore an instruction to divert?

Sure, depending on the fuel situation, for example. But in this case, CHC was presumably the alternate for which fuel was calculated.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19549 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 46):
Whoa whoa whoa! Can an aircraft simply ignore an instruction to divert?

Yea man, captains discretion at the end of the day in that case.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19527 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):
Where did NZ136 go, I presume only CHC has a long enough runway for a wide body?
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 44):
Sure did. I'd say it's probably more to do with the fact that CHC has the capability and room to handle a 772 internationally; and the far less risky place to operate into/out of.

I'd be curious to know the knock-on effect of this.

In my experience, at this time of year there are lots of Kiwis flying to holiday in Queensland on NZ135 but NZ136 (BNE-AKL) like the rest of the year has around 20% Economy and 40% Business Class passengers connecting on to North America.

Obviously the flights departing to North America would have been impacted too, but what happened to presumably around 50 passengers at Christchurch who were going to miss onward connections?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19465 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 49):

I'm pretty sure NZ136 got back in time for at least a connection to NZ2's departure. I know that AKL-HKG was delayed by an hour to accommodate delayed connections but obviously the chances of that being affected by inbound Aussies are pretty slim.

[Edited 2012-12-06 17:17:20]


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19234 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm hoping someone could help me with the NZs 77W Y+ seating. Whats the difference between seats 24K and 26K (apart from 24K being considered a prefered seat and costing $75)? Does 24K have more leg room and how much does the wing and engine impact on the view out of 26K?

User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19286 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 48):
Yea man, captains discretion at the end of the day in that case.

But surely (legally?) they took on enough fuel for the diversion airport, which must have been CHC. Why would the Captain refuse? Can they refuse just because it's inconvenient?


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19194 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 52):
Why would the Captain refuse? Can they refuse just because it's inconvenient?

Don't know. Hard to say without knowing what actually went on in the flight deck at that time.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 19226 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 49):
I'd be curious to know the knock-on effect of this.

It landed 2045 ex CHC. those on NZ6 moved to NZ2, NZ8 was delayed anyway so waited. Not really much of a knock on... especially compared to the rest of the day

Quoting 777ER (Reply 51):
Whats the difference between seats 24K and 26K

Not enough to warrant the charge in that case IMO just closer to front. Engine does impact view. More reason for priority seating in Y only I think


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 18989 times:

Does anyone know what the story is with ZK-TLB is it being scrapped?


Also anyone know what the major forcourt changes are at domestic from early Jan13


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 18969 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 55):
Also anyone know what the major forcourt changes are at domestic from early Jan13

I hope they're getting rid of the 'extra' taxi stand area made for the world cup.. There's absolutely no room for cars picking up and dropping off people.. And taxis don't need as much room as they were given for it.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18883 times:

I have it on good authority that ZK-TLB is confirmed as being scrapped on site. Wings now removed and fuselage to be moved tomorrow to the AKL boneyard.

User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18766 times:

One of Air Pacific's Boeing 747-400s is having a C-Check and to cover its absence, the airline has wet-leased a EuroAtlantic Boeing 777-200ER. Does anyone know if it is scheduled to visit AKL anytime soon? Also China Southern is sending an A380 here on Monday, I believe. Might be worth heading out to the airport for its arrival.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 57):
I have it on good authority that ZK-TLB is confirmed as being scrapped on site. Wings now removed and fuselage to be moved tomorrow to the AKL boneyard.

Interesting, it was only delivered to Airwork a month or two ago (assuming this is the one that had the Kuban Airlines livery).



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 18730 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 58):
Does anyone know if it is scheduled to visit AKL anytime soon?

Not scheduled to come to AKL at all, just LAX & HKG. we will be lucky if we get a technical swap...

Quoting zkojq (Reply 58):
Interesting, it was only delivered to Airwork a month or two ago (assuming this is the one that had the Kuban Airlines livery).

Yes, it was purchased as scrap from the desert and flown here for that purpose.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18527 times:

It's kicking off on the Honolulu route.....

AKL-HNL in Business on Air NZ drops from $2500 each way to $2100 long-term as soon as Hawaiian enters the route.

Which pretty much confirms that up to now Air NZ has (sensibly) used its monopoly position to limit supply in order to inflate fares.

But I wonder how S2S works on this route: Hawaiian effectively offers no product inferior to "Works" so Seat+/- Bag will sell only with deep discounting, which of course lowers yields.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 61, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18455 times:

Is West Coast US-HNL-AKL a buy in Y with Hawaiian ?

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 62, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 18452 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 61):
Is West Coast US-HNL-AKL a buy in Y with Hawaiian ?

Currently being pushed withn 2/32KG luggage and with HNL as a stopover, rather than a transfer (even though it is possible for some connections.)


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 63, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 18424 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 62):
Currently being pushed withn 2/32KG luggage and with HNL as a stopover, rather than a transfer (even though it is possible for some connections.)

Rob....How much ?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 64, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 18369 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 63):
Rob....How much ?

Without looking too deeply into it, There seem to be 4/4 8 day packages with hotels included
LAS $2099
LAX $2699
NYC $2959


User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18321 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 51):
I'm hoping someone could help me with the NZs 77W Y+ seating. Whats the difference between seats 24K and 26K (apart from 24K being considered a prefered seat and costing $75)? Does 24K have more leg room and how much does the wing and engine impact on the view out of 26K?


I dont believe there is any extra leg room between 24 and 26 K, yes the wing/engine starts to impede. My wife and I flew to London in 23A/B earlier this year, those seat would be worth some extra money but not 24 v 26, same result


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 66, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18190 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 54):
Quoting nz2 (Reply 65):

Thanks aerorob and NZ2. I've selected 23A returning. 23A/B and 23J/K are certainly seats to pay extra for for several reasons


User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17708 times:

Any pixs of CZ's A380 @ AKL today? How did they manage 3 x A380's at once?

[Edited 2012-12-10 02:53:49]

User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 68, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17674 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 67):

Remote stand maybe? I saw an EK 388 on a remote stand a couple of days ago next to the gate 15/16 area, maybe a trail run for using A380 with stairs?


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17663 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 67):

I could be wrong but I believe it's departing CAN on the 10th and arriving into AKL today (11th).



Travel is my thing
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 70, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17669 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 67):
How did they manage 3 x A380's at once?

CZ arrived about 1.5-2 hrs after the arrival of the EK A380s.. Plenty of time there to offload one of them and send it to a remote in time for the CZ A380. Then the CZ A380 departs at 11 or so pm, way after the EK A380s depart.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17520 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 70):

CZ arrived about 1.5-2 hrs after the arrival of the EK A380s.. Plenty of time there to offload one of them and send it to a remote in time for the CZ A380. Then the CZ A380 departs at 11 or so pm, way after the EK A380s depart.

Aha ... and EK don't depart until 1840/1850 so there is time for CZ arrival at 1700 at one of those gates as a one off.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 72, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 17234 times:

Today's BBC News website carries a feature on "The World's Biggest Cities" which should be mandatory reading for Air NZ route planners.

We have seen a number of posters on here, including interested visitors like LAXintl, suggest that Air NZ should focus international operations on East Asia.

When I have commented on the major Chinese cities being a few decades of development behind axed Air NZ destinations like Fukuoka or Nagoya or Taipei or Singapore such comments tend to be ignored or derided, as if some sort of Great Leap Forward allows them to be leapfrogged.

Well this article exposes the faulty logic which over-estimates Chinese demographic growth. "The world's largest city" - supposedly Chungking by its new name - turns out to cover an area the size of Austria, with the majority of the population living in rural poverty more than 24 hours' commute from the actual city.

And Shanghai, far from being a city of twenty-something million people with an economy the size of London turns out actually to have just over half the population of Delhi or Mumbai, with an economy probably around the size of Sydney.

I am all in favour of encouraging inbound tourism from China, although I'd prefer it to be on Chinese carriers at this stage. But there needs to be a sober analysis of what the market's actual size and potential really are. And the fact that over 90% of AKL-PVG passengers are still VFR, students and package tourists does not bode well, as such numbers would make Ryanair exit a market in a flash.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 73, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17085 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 72):
And Shanghai, far from being a city of twenty-something million people with an economy the size of London turns out actually to have just over half the population of Delhi or Mumbai, with an economy probably around the size of Sydney.

Just read this article at...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16761784

...and, while it confirms China's financial capital as having closer to 16-million, I couldn't find any reference to Shanghai having an economy closer to that of Sydney. While I agree with your contention that China's economy is a developing one, it is developing at such a rate that if NZ doesn't get in on the ground floor, the lift will be overcrowded at any other.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 74, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17072 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 67):
How did they manage 3 x A380's at once?

Hope someone got a photo or two of this!



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 75, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17054 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 74):

It could only have been done from someone airside.. http://mrcaviation.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/some-more-of-b-6139.html

Man, they even gave it a water cannon salute!!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 76, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17029 times:
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Quoting motorhussy (Reply 73):
While I agree with your contention that China's economy is a developing one, it is developing at such a rate that if NZ doesn't get in on the ground floor, the lift will be overcrowded at any other.

  

I think Air NZ would be point blank crazy to ignore this market:

http://www.tourism-review.com/china-...st-market-for-nz-tourism--news3477

"China has become New Zealand's official second largest market for tourism. NZ's Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment reported that the number of Chinese guests increased by 37 percent in the year ending in September.

Tourists from China have outspent for the first time the British tourists by over 10 million NZ dollars. The Chinese had spent 555 million (USD 458.15 million) in that period compared to the U.K.'s tourists spending 545 million."


I don't understand the objections to it and never have.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 77, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17057 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
I think Air NZ would be point blank crazy to ignore this market:
Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
I don't understand the objections to it and never have.

Air New Zealand and the Realm of New Zealand have completely different needs and priorities.

The Realm of New Zealand benefits enormously from the spending of Chinese visitors, and as a result as Kiwi citizens we should welcome them and their business, but be blind to how they get there.

But Air New Zealand's only long-haul aircraft are configured with premium classes and seating density to allow them to operate anywhere on the long-haul network. Shanghai therefore is only a reasonable choice of destination for Air New Zealand if either:

a) the market can support 3 class aircraft in the configuration which also works for North America, or
b) the airline can devote high-density configured aircraft which match the current profile of a route whose demographics are roughly 90% VFR / students / package tourists and 10% "other".

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 73):
while it confirms China's financial capital as having closer to 16-million, I couldn't find any reference to Shanghai having an economy closer to that of Sydney

The commonly cited (and incorrect) statistic is that Shanghai has a population of 23 million, with a per capita GDP of US$12,800, implying an economy of $297 billion. Inner London - out as far as Heathrow - has a population of 8.17 million but per capita GDP of 44,400 Euros in 2009 ($57,741), meaning an economy of $472 billion - and that doesn't even include the commuter belt.

Now, the BBC's article shows that Shanghai's population - in terms of commutable distance - is actually only 16 million, which means that its economy can therefore be reduced by 16/23 x $297 billion to $206 billion.

Sydney has a population which can very, very conservatively be put at 4.7 million, which again excludes parts of its own commuter belt. And its last published GDP per capita was $66,984, suggesting an economy of $314 billion.

Even Southeast Queensland has a population of 3.05 million, which at the average Australian GDP of $40,847 gives it an economy of $125 billion.

In other words, combining the corrected Chinese city populations with very conservative and low estimates of the populations of London and Sydney gives relative economies of:

London: $472 billion
Sydney: $314 billion
Shanghai: $206 billion.
SE Queensland: $125 billion

Those are sobering figures for those who seek to exaggerate the potential of Shanghai as a long-haul destination for Air New Zealand. Particularly when fewer than 1 million residents of Shanghai are believed to have income exceeding $40,000 per year, which means that even potential market volume (as opposed to yield) is limited.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 78, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17033 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 77):
Air New Zealand and the Realm of New Zealand have completely different needs and priorities.

There is an unbridgeable gulf between us - you're all about classes and aircraft types and I'm all about bums on seats, because the Chinese still have to get here.

China/NZ is a burgeoning market which seems - to me - to be following a classic pattern of development between non-traditional markets. It allies - to me - to the changes I have seen in NZ since since I first arrived here by ship in 1965, when the immigration officer spotted me at the end of a queue of Europeans and called: "Come here, young man, and let me out a stamp on a British passport."

So as I said:

Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
I think Air NZ would be point blank crazy to ignore this market:

Because the times they are a'changing and those who don't change with them will be left behind.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 79, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17022 times:

For the sake of comparison with my earlier Shanghai comments, here are some current and terminated Air NZ Pacific Rim destinations:

Honolulu: Population 953,000, GDP per capita = $52,465 , Economy = $50 billion.
Auckland: Population 1.2 million, GDP per capita = $47,730, Economy = $57 billion. (2010 figures)
Greater Nagoya: Population 8.74 million, GDP per capita = $52,517, Economy = $459 billion (2004 figures!)
Taipei Metro Area: Population 3.55 million , GDP per capita = $48,400, Economy = $173 billion

Compared with:

Quoting koruman (Reply 77):
London: $472 billion
Sydney: $314 billion
Shanghai: $206 billion.
SE Queensland: $125 billion

Maybe I'm blind, but for Air NZ as opposed to the Realm of New Zealand I'm struggling to see why Shanghai and not Nagoya, Taipei and a lot more Honolulu services.

In fact, Shanghai is only 1600 miles closer to Auckland than Sao Paulo, and has a population equally unfamiliar with New Zealand. But at least Sao Paulo's population really is 20 million, and it really does have an economy of $437 billion, which makes it more than twice as big as Shanghai's.

In actual fact, the total city GDPs of Phoenix, Seattle and San Diego are each roughly the same as Shanghai's, but with many more residents earning high-enough incomes for international travel, and Portland is at around 50% of Shanghai's total GDP but with a lot more people in the international travel demographic.

You could mount an argument that Air NZ would do better to fly 787-8s to any of those cities, where they would at least sell some high-yielding tickets, rather than chase volume and suicide yields to China.

[Edited 2012-12-11 15:45:04]

User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 80, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17022 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 78):
There is an unbridgeable gulf between us - you're all about classes and aircraft types and I'm all about bums on seats, because the Chinese still have to get here.

Yes, they do.

But their combination of VFR, student and package holiday demographics does not justify any of Air NZ's current fleet. It justifies EITHER

a) an all-economy 350 seat 767-300ER, configured 2-4-2, OR
b) a two class 660 seat 747-400, with an all-economy lower deck and a mixed upper deck with 12 Business Class recliner seats plus Economy seating.

If Air NZ is willing to dedicate its remaining 747 fleet to China in high-density configuration, fine.

If Air NZ is willing to reconfigure some of its 767 or 777 aircraft for China in high-density configuration, then fine.

But they are currently planning on configuring the 789 fleet for China, which is utterly insane.

Even Ryanair are far too smart to operate long-haul flights for a VFR/student/package holiday demographic. But Air NZ is going to put its most efficient and modern aircraft on those routes.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 81, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16992 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 80):
But their combination of VFR, student and package holiday demographics does not justify any of Air NZ's current fleet. It justifies EITHER

I don't know why you're trying to persuade me - there is that unbridgeable gulf between us.

As I said, I'm about bums on seats and the rest is housekeeping, which really doesn't interest me.

And whether Air NZ should serve Nagoya or Taipei - or Fu King - may be an interesting question but is irrelevant to my basic point, which I've made twice before:

Quoting mariner (Reply 78):
Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
I think Air NZ would be point blank crazy to ignore this market:


People want to discuss aircraft types and seating lay-outs, fine go for it, it's why many are here - but always, I would hope, rationally, with a positive view of the service, not just a bash.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16945 times:

NZ gave up on TPE the same time EVA AIR were on it, All I see is them going backwards,

They want to expand to other markets, but don't have any free aircraft in the right config, hence they have put all there eggs on the 787 and 2014. How the market will look in another 18 months is anyone's idea. !

They should have taken options on the 2 77W's they had going and had them in 2013 which would have given them some breathing space, used them for SFO/LAX/Vancover ETC, all they have done is axed routes to free up a/c.

But to now be highly considering sending a 300 seat 787-9 to China! what is going on. ??

A few years ago I read that one of the first 787 routes would be to Japan and they wanted to increase Tokyo to Double Daily. Clearly that has all changed.



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16891 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 82):
But to now be highly considering sending a 300 seat 787-9 to China! what is going on. ??

They have no other aircraft with a CASK as low as the 789 which I assume they need to make money from the clientele they are serving.
A 789 will haul about 45t on a 12hr 30m sector such as AKL-PVG whereas the 767 they are presently using is limited to max passenger load of ~23t. Fuel burn is very similar for both aircraft. I'm with K'man on this one.Sure bums in seats is fine but at what cost?
Probably they could use the 789 on other routes and make more money off it. MEL-AKL-IAH would be such a route in my view. About 37t payload westbound , in fact probably better than what QF are doing with the 744ER on DFW-BNE-SYD.
Will wait and see what the new CEO has in mind.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 84, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16868 times:
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Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 83):
Sure bums in seats is fine but at what cost?

From what you're saying, at a lesser cost than the 767.   

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 85, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16883 times:

I wonder if NZ took a look at the SQ stake in VS . There is the possibility of course that based on history SQ wouldn't return any phone calls.

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 86, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16820 times:

I'm sorry, but giving up a whole market to a predatory carrier like CZ is not the answer. Give a cashed up carrier of 400+ aircraft and capable of such huge growth an inch and pretty soon they've taken a mile and a pound of flesh to boot - regardless of perceived customer type - that's a recipe for disaster. They have already showed interest in 2x daily and to flights beyond AKL. If CZ really do decide to head to South America via AKL and that's proper profit being lost. Screw the supposed low yields claimed. The fact is the new ancilliary revenue boost makes it very viable for NZ to operate to PVG. The 763 on the route says more about lack of spare aircraft than it does on NZs ability to operate to PVG.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 73):
t is developing at such a rate that if NZ doesn't get in on the ground floor, the lift will be overcrowded at any other.

Precisely, and crowded with cashed up, profitable competition...

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 85):
I wonder if NZ took a look at the SQ stake in VS . There is the possibility of course that based on history SQ wouldn't return any phone calls.

The same shares that DL just bought...


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 87, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16775 times:

Any thoughts on NZ potentially leaving *A now that DL is buying 49% of VS and has a close relationship with VA (which NZ of course owns 19.99% of)? NZ hasn't being playing well with the others in *A of late. Although ST doesn't really have the prestige or size of *A yet.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 88, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16738 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87):
Any thoughts on NZ potentially leaving *A now that DL is buying 49% of VS

I don't see it myself - A few individual partnerships that are out of Star does not mean much in the current aviation climate - no more than the QF/EK agreement means that EK is joining oneworld. If NZ did leave Star it would not shack up with an Alliance again, but tailor-make it's own assorted strategic partners.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16713 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 86):
The 763 on the route says more about lack of spare aircraft than it does on NZs ability to operate to PVG.

I'm actually all for the China routes and am surprised at Koruman's hostility to it given they did exactly what he wanted and shifted down a gear to the 767s, which I agree are far more suited to the market.

If it really is just an aircraft availability issue, then that's some pretty poor management on NZ's part. The 787 delays have been recognised for long enough now that, if needed, the airline could have firmed up (or god forbid, leased!!!) 777 options. Or they could've brought back a few 767s, which (yes in hindsight, but I think I'm on record at the time) probably should've been kept on in some fashion rather than being cut from 10 to, what, 5?

Do you have a credible source for it being an availability issue? If not, I'd lean toward it simply being a more suitable aircraft.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 86):
. If CZ really do decide to head to South America via AKL and that's proper profit being lost.

I'm not sure you can count revenue forgone on a route you've totally ignored for, well, ever (Latin America) as an actual loss. I mean, it's a loss of potential revenue, yes, but NZ has never even tried on the route, which is their own damn fault. If CZ sees an opportunity in this vacancy and shuffles in, then all the best to it and tough titties NZ.


User currently offlineWSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16721 times:

Can someone tell me why QF134 AKL-MEL, according to flightradar24 and flightaware was over the eastern Bay of Plenty region. Surely some kind of error?

User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16696 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87):
Any thoughts on NZ potentially leaving *A now that DL is buying 49% of VS and has a close relationship with VA (which NZ of course owns 19.99% of)? NZ hasn't being playing well with the others in *A of late. Although ST doesn't really have the prestige or size of *A yet.

I believe there is a cost relating to leaving *A which I don't think NZ would want to fork out, not to a degree where they have to leave the alliance anyway. NZ is also leading the management of the new LAX *A lounge which I don't think NZ would commit to if they were thinking about leaving.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 92, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16661 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 89):
Do you have a credible source for it being an availability issue? If not, I'd lean toward it simply being a more suitable aircraft.

It is certainly partly avaliability with additional flights to North America being added and PER going 772, PVG was to be 5 weekly 772s from July again now reduced to 3 since YVR is increasing. I agree though that the 763 is probably better suited to PVG in its current configuration.

Do we yet know the configuration of the 772s when they are refitted? Maybe NZ will keep some of them instead in a less Premium configuration rather than the brand new 789s? Speaking of the 789s wasn't the layout meant to have been announced afew months back?!


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 93, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16638 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 89):
Do you have a credible source for it being an availability issue? If not, I'd lean toward it simply being a more suitable aircraft.

you mean besides personally working in a very relevant operations department? In truth it is a combination of several factors, and yes I believe, and have stated on a number of previous occasions the 787 delay could have been better managed - I have put my own fleet suggestions forward on a number of occasions during these NZL threads. The use of the 763 3x a week and a 772 4x a week is more due to increasing PVG to daily and making use of the available gaps in the overall weekly fleet plan than anything - It was a matter of either operating a less than daily schedule (which isn't ideal given demand) or splitting the schedule over 2 fleets. A 12h45min flight into a slot restricted airport like PVG is not just a matter of saying "make it so" - it is a juggling act to best fit the overall operation. A daily 77E to PVG would have been to the detriment of the overall fleet rotation as it would have meant more parked time and less flexibility.
The 772 which goes to PER allows for better fleet utilisation (short aircraft TOD of 14h25 vs a PVG aircraft TOD of 36h) and keeping the aircraft airborne for more hours in the day to generate more money. It is NOT as many will tell you because the PER market necessarily warrants it year round. Same for HNL.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 89):
If CZ sees an opportunity in this vacancy and shuffles in, then all the best to it and tough titties NZ.

I agree - NZs loss, but the fact is that is the kind of thing which happens when you let a major world airline muscle in unabated on your home market as K'man suggests NZ should do if they were to dump the Chinese market and let CZ do what they like.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 94, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16506 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 86):
The 763 on the route says more about lack of spare aircraft than it does on NZs ability to operate to PVG.

Are NZ getting max passenger payload with the 763 to PVG ? PIANO-X suggests that they are not.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 89):
I'm not sure you can count revenue forgone on a route you've totally ignored for, well, ever (Latin America) as an actual loss. I mean, it's a loss of potential revenue, yes, but NZ has never even tried on the route, which is their own damn fault. If CZ sees an opportunity in this vacancy and shuffles in, then all the best to it and tough titties NZ.

What has never been clear to me is whether NZ is considering EZE or GRU as its South American destination or whether it is content to fly to SCL and use feeds from other carriers to/from other major cities. GRU presents a challenge that puts it right at the edge of the 77E capability. A stop at EZE would help but the extra costs involved probably would nix that. I believe that until the RR powered 77E gets an EDTO > 180m there is not much NZ can do about serving the eastern seaboard of South America. Now the 789 is good for 31t assuming a westbound sector time of ~ 15h 30m from GRU which is what a hypothetical flight plan that I have a copy of , showed. But the 789 will not have the necessary EDTO until at least 2-years after EIS with NZ.


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16253 times:

http://auckland.scoop.co.nz/2012/12/...ew-initiatives-for-tourism-growth/

China Southern has even said that they would bring B787 to AKL as one of the first few destinations for their dreamliners. They have made daily AKL flights in no time and now they will beat NZ to have the dreamliner in AKL as well.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 94):
Are NZ getting max passenger payload with the 763 to PVG ? PIANO-X suggests that they are not.

I have read that NZ's 767's were payload restricted even when they were used on AKL-HKG. PVG is even further than HKG so I believe they can't get max payload. Looks like the only reason B767's are being used on PVG is to make daily.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 96, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 16215 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 95):
they will beat NZ to have the dreamliner in AKL as well.

CZ was already supposed to have started here with 787s, but they decided at the last minute to upgrade/standardize the product into SYD and other places which have had a major mix of equipment. It was always going to happen this way.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7563 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15962 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 79):
Maybe I'm blind, but for Air NZ as opposed to the Realm of New Zealand I'm struggling to see why Shanghai and not Nagoya, Taipei and a lot more Honolulu services.

Maybe because there are 370,000 dollar millionaires living in Shanghai, to put this into perspective there are only 132,000 dollar millionaires in Australia, 411,000 in the UK, 1,6 million in Japan, and NZ fly to Canada where there are only 185,000 of them. Most tourists to NZ are either people with money or backpackers, Tourism NZ has always marketed NZ as a destination for top income earners, mid to lower income earners (backpackers exempted) are not the people we attract or even want to attract.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/06...h-most-millionaires_n_1590824.html

http://shanghaiist.com/2012/06/01/sh...hai_home_to_90_billionaires_an.php

This would be another reason why NZ likes the Chinese.

Quote:
In the year-ending June 2012, New Zealand's primary sources for visitor arrivals were

Australia (1,175,296 arrivals);
the UK (214,448 arrivals);
the US (182,816 arrivals);
China (175,488 arrivals),
Japan (67,075 arrivals),
Germany (62,992 arrivals),
South Korea (53,840 arrivals)
and Canada (49,296 arrivals).
http://www.tourismnewzealand.com/dev.../the-facts-tourism-in-new-zealand/

Those 175k Chinese spent 5 billion NZD whilst they were here. The average spend for tourists in NZ is 2800 NZD per person. I'm sure it won't be long before the Chinese overtake US.

[Edited 2012-12-13 04:39:50]

User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 98, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15817 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 97):
Maybe because there are 370,000 dollar millionaires living in Shanghai, to put this into perspective there are only 132,000 dollar millionaires in Australia, 411,000 in the UK, 1,6 million in Japan, and NZ fly to Canada where there are only 185,000 of them. Most tourists to NZ are either people with money or backpackers,

Tourism NZ has always marketed NZ as a destination for top income earners, mid to lower income earners (backpackers exempted) are not the people we attract or even want to attract.

But that's the problem, isn't it?

The Chinese passengers who are coming on Air NZ to New Zealand are not the dollar millionaires. They are by our standards "mid-to-low income earners" and the only reason their daily spend is relatively high is because they are subject to very uncommunist short annual leave entitlements.

They don't stay at Huka and the other luxury lodges. They fly in on wholesale Discount Economy packaged fares, and they stay in a small number of hotels marketed by their travel agency, before being whisked around a small number of Chinese-owned shops.

I repeat, their custom is very, very welcome in New Zealand. But we are basically talking about a demographic comparable to South or West Auckland, not Remuera or Takapuna.

There are complex reasons for this, and I know that Mariner will call me a sneering snob, and that Xiaotung will be offended, but here goes nothing, based upon my previously-disclosed links to Hong Kong.

With PR China's affluent, we are very much talking about a nouveau riche demographic, and good luck to them. A nouveau riche demographic which has had a Communist Party-planned education, and is almost completely ignorant of New Zealand.

Their tastes and leisure interests are completely different not just to the traditional moneyed elites of Commonwealth countries but also to the American nouveau riche.

Very, very few will independently book a trip to Huka Lodge with Business Premier flights for a week of fishing, gourmet dining and fine wine. (I can't blame them, neither would I).

The dollar millionaires KiwiRob describes are far, far more likely to head for Macau for a long weekend of gambling and other pastimes that I cannot mention in a family-friendly forum. There is nothing unique about that, and anyone thinking this is unique to the Chinese should look up the death of the Emir of Dubai at the Gold Coast's Versace hotel seven years ago next month. What wouldn't I give for an exit like his!

I get the impression that Air New Zealand is looking at the number of dollar millionaires in Shanghai and assuming that they know something about NZ, or share the same interests and leisure preferences and booking profiles as western millionaires. Well I'm sorry, they don't.

I am not belittling those people - it's not their fault that they mostly don't even know that New Zealand exists and I've made quite clear that I'd rather behave like the late Emir of Dubai than go on a fishing holiday at a luxury lodge.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15714 times:

Tourism NZ activly markets to 'Active Considerers'. In China, 'Active Considerers' usually spend 10000 yuan or more on a trip here. Interestingly, 60% of them will travel to Australia on the same trip.

http://www.tourismnewzealand.com/mar...earch/active-considerers-research/

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 59):
Not scheduled to come to AKL at all, just LAX & HKG. we will be lucky if we get a technical swap...

That's a pity, always nice for there to be a wider variety of aircraft/liveries at Auckland Airport.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 59):
Yes, it was purchased as scrap from the desert and flown here for that purpose.

Oh, well that makes sense then. Cheers for clearing that up. Does anyone have photos, by any chance?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 87):
Any thoughts on NZ potentially leaving *A now that DL is buying 49% of VS and has a close relationship with VA (which NZ of course owns 19.99% of)? NZ hasn't being playing well with the others in *A of late.

IMO, Star still has far more to offer Air New Zealand than Skyteam (or oneworld, for that matter), even if relations with Singapore Airlines aren't the best. I hope they choose to stay.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7563 posts, RR: 4
Reply 100, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15565 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 98):
They don't stay at Huka and the other luxury lodges.

And you know the cliental of all the luxury lodges in NZ how? I have a friend who works at a luxury lodge as a greenkeeper for there golf course, lots of rich Chinese come here on golfing holidays, our casinos are also full of wealthy Chinese.

Quoting koruman (Reply 98):
I am not belittling those people

I think you are

Quoting koruman (Reply 98):
it's not their fault that they mostly don't even know that New Zealand exists

This is simply not true either, from my experience (mostly Chinese shipbuilders) I don't think I've met a Chinese person who doesn't know of NZ, in fact I think I'm far more likely to find someone from the US (sorry guys) who doesn't know that NZ exists.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 101, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15011 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

NZs next ATR 72-600 ZK-MVB is flying in France

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent



Not sure what to think about the black and white livery honestly


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2268 posts, RR: 25
Reply 102, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15056 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 777ER (Reply 101):

I think it looks OK on the smaller aircraft such as the ATR above, but think it will look rather bland on a 777-300ER due to the amount of fuselage that will just be white.

NZ1


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 103, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15040 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 101):

Bring back the blue and teal. If anyone asks me what I think the blandest livery is, I'll be saying air nz.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineWSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15004 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 103):
It's efffing horrible.

Well said that man. Everyone 'takes the michael' out of AY and JL's revised bland liveries, but this is just as bad.

And as has been said in various posts and threads in the past, the belief that the colour black represents New Zealand due to the fact 15 guys are good at chucking and kicking a ball around a field, really irritates me.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14974 times:

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 105):
the belief that the colour black represents New Zealand due to the fact 15 guys are good at chucking and kicking a ball around a field

Perhaps black paint is just cheaper? They removed meals, in flight magazines, and everything else they think unnecessary, now they have run out of things to remove, and they look at saving on the paint?

On another note, is the CX and NZ codeshare still going ahead? They said tickets go on sale from 12 Dec 2012, but neither CX nor NZ are selling codeshare flights on AKL-HKG. Did an availability search on amadeus.net on 12 Dec for flights in May 2013, NZ did put up the codeshare flights (on CX107/108), CX didn't. Checked again on 13 Dec, and these codeshares have disappeared. Airpoints show some information about earning on CX, but NZ is not listed as a partner in Asiamiles (yet?), nor is there any information about earning on NZ for Asiamiles members. It is very obvious which party is more keen on the alliance there.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 106, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14956 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 104):
Bring back the blue and teal
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 103):
It's efffing horrible

Agree with everyone on here. It's a shame the black is being brought in


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 107, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 14880 times:

Does anyone know why an Atlas Air 747-400F with an Air Pacific call sign flew over yesterday? Air Pacific doesn't occur to me as an airline that would need enough extra freight capacity to justify chartering a 747F.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 101):
Not sure what to think about the black and white livery honestly

Yuck...at least Finnair's livery is bold. This one is horrid...the black of the tail looks really heavy and has the effect of drawing one's eye towards it, away from everything else......the black tail worked on ZK-OKP's livery where it was balanced out by the big Hobbit sticker, but on this one it doesn't due to all the excess blank white fuselage. Oh and the new font sucks..... because it is so subtle it looks like an afterthought, just like it does on ZK-OKP. The old one looked much more sophisticated. Two good bits: the Mount Cook Flower (hadn't noticed this before) and how it says 'ATR72-600' on the top of the vertical stabilizer (probably not visible from the ground though).

I really like Air New Zealand, and for someone my age I'm quite a loyal customer, but often it feels like they are trying to scare me away. I really hope they get their livery sorted before the first the first 'new (except for ZK-OAB, ZK-OJQ, ZK-OJR, and ZK-OJS)' A320 gets delivered or the first 777-200ER gets a refit (and probably a repaint).

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 102):
It's efffing horrible.

  

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 104):
Bring back the blue and teal.

      and the Pacific Wave.

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 105):
And as has been said in various posts and threads in the past, the belief that the colour black represents New Zealand due to the fact 15 guys are good at chucking and kicking a ball around a field, really irritates me.

   Sporting success =/= national identity.

Quoting cchan (Reply 106):
Perhaps black paint is just cheaper? They removed meals, in flight magazines, and everything else they think unnecessary, now they have run out of things to remove, and they look at saving on the paint?

  

[Edited 2012-12-16 04:22:34]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 108, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 14831 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 101):
Not sure what to think about the black and white livery honestly

Looks like a cheap and nasty afterthought - like the signage on a dollarama store or an appliance parts warehouse. Classless.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 109, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 14819 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 102):
I think it looks OK on the smaller aircraft such as the ATR above, but think it will look rather bland on a 777-300ER due to the amount of fuselage that will just be white.

Are you allowed to show us what the proposed livery a few years back was? I remember you dropping hints at the time. Or maybe even just describe it?


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 5
Reply 110, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14800 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 106):
but neither CX nor NZ are selling codeshare flights on AKL-HKG.

Why would NZ permit its AKL-HKG flight to be "sabotaged" by allowing code sharing on CX for this sector. It seems to me that the CX 343 and NZ 77E products may not be comparable. Just one example when the 77E goes 10 wide in Y the seat width will be a full inch narrower than the CX 343.


User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14732 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 108):
Does anyone know why an Atlas Air 747-400F with an Air Pacific call sign flew over yesterday? Air Pacific doesn't occur to me as an airline that would need enough extra freight capacity to justify chartering a 747F.

It wasn't a 744F but a 744 Pax version. Replaced the EuroAtlantic 772 on wet lease while FJ's 744 is in maintenance.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 112, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14734 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 106):
Perhaps black paint is just cheaper?

By itself, no, not really. But when did a couple of thousand dollars come into the question? If they were on the budget side, they would have picked a livery like:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 111):

And apparently HK's Govt has not approved of this 'strategic partnership'..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2268 posts, RR: 25
Reply 113, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14544 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 110):

No I can't sorry. NDA's and all that jazz to contend with now.

NZ1


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 114, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14546 times:

Back to the Honolulu discussion.......

People might be interested to read this article:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/holida...awaii/story-e6frfqd9-1226537188700

It translates into the following changes in the number of weekly flights to Honolulu from Australian ports, compared to six years ago:

Sydney: 18 in 2012, 8 in 2006.
Brisbane: 3 in 2012, 0 in 2006.
Melbourne: 3 in 2012, 0 in 2006.

That's an increase from 8 to 24 weekly flights.

It's great that Hawaiian will now compete from Auckland, but it's crucial that Air NZ not be allowed to enter an anti-competitive codeshare arrangement with them. There's plenty of room for them both.


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14489 times:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10854497

China Southern wants to partner with NZ. I don't think NZ would be interested though having CX as a partner already.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 116, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14500 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 113):

At least with that scheme, the font looks classy lol. It's a shame, I haven't met one person yet (Staff and public) who thinks the black tail looks good.

Maybe they will do like what JAL did with the Crane and change it back to the teal within a year or two


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 117, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14495 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 117):
At least with that scheme, the font looks classy lol. It's a shame, I haven't met one person yet (Staff and public) who thinks the black tail looks good.

Maybe they will do like what JAL did with the Crane and change it back to the teal within a year or two

Haha it only looks good on a 762. Anything longer and that title starts to become less significant.

Yeah and if they do revert back to the previous livery, what a waste of money spent on changing the font back. I have a feeling it's another case of typical New Zealand short sightedness.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14325 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 113):
By itself, no, not really. But when did a couple of thousand dollars come into the question? If they were on the budget side, they would have picked a livery like:

Ah the days of NBJ only flying AKL-SYD-AKL and AKL-CHC-AKL


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 119, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14198 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 112):
It wasn't a 744F but a 744 Pax version. Replaced the EuroAtlantic 772 on wet lease while FJ's 744 is in maintenance.

That explains it, thanks. I didn't know Atlas Air had Pax 747-400s.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7563 posts, RR: 4
Reply 120, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14142 times:

It would have been pretty easy making the black look good on a plane yet they woosed out, I like this guys ideas.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00015306.jpg


User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14115 times:

The Hobbit was in Brisbane today, was great to see her in the flesh and she sure draws a crowd.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...95087693257&type=1&theater

[Edited 2012-12-17 02:05:27]

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 122, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14098 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 119):

Indeed, fond memories of domestic widebody travel!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 2
Reply 123, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14093 times:

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 15):
It will be interesting to see the annual results mid next year when QF announces another massive loss and NZ reports a profit again. I wonder then if some will still continue to pick apart NZ's performance and changes.

Would like to revisit this line of thought in 3 years time.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 124, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13804 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 121):
It would have been pretty easy making the black look good on a plane yet they woosed out, I like this guys ideas.

So do I! And imagine how good that would be in the blue/teal colours.

One can only hope that a change of CEOs brings with it a change in taste.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 124):
Would like to revisit this line of thought in 3 years time.

Indeed. Frankly, I doubt NZ will be standalone by then and will have been swalloed up by an Etihad move on VA and NZ. At least, I hope so. Equally, we could see Etihad just gun for VA and ignore NZ altogether. In terms of long-term strategic importance, NZ really doesn't have much to offer anyone.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 13218 times:

I haven't had the patience to check if someone already asked this, but why doesn't NZ route its AKL-LHR westbound flight via SIN (maybe finally sending the Koru there) instead of HKG with CX? Out-of-alliance partnerships seem strange when there is a viable partner within the same alliance, for the same reason that I couldn't wrap my head around QF sleeping with the enemy (EK) rather than QR...

ON a completely different note, how long will SFO see the 747?


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 126, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 13218 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 113):
And apparently HK's Govt has not approved of this 'strategic partnership'..

any source to this, would be interesting to know. thanks.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 127, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13182 times:

Meanwhile, it appears we're on the verge of a return to duopoly days on the Tasman with the ACCC approving the QF/EK tie-up, but for 5 years instead of 10 and a limit on capcity reducitons on the Tasman - I'm thinknig this equates to approval on similar terms to the NZ/DJ tie-up.

Slippery slope, huh?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 128, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12967 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 126):
ON a completely different note, how long will SFO see the 747?

Until the 744 is retired from the fleet...

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 128):
Slippery slope, huh?


If monopolies and duopolies are not your bag then New Zealand is probably not the right country to reside in. That is just part of everyday life here.

And if EY puts their boot in like you want, then you'll have it more so because for sure they will eventually want to tie the two up together as one entity, even if they maintain the separate brands like AF/KL.

The global airline market is consolidating, and airlines are pulling out of thin/marginal routes the world over in order to add frequency/use their fleet for effectively on the routes they still do well on . New Zealand as a market is both thin and marginal in just about every respect. If airlines cannot make money then they arrange partnerships that best suit their own needs for their own niche. Air New Zealand makes money by holding high market share in a small market, and most airlines can not be bothered fighting for the meagre leftovers of what is already a small and insignificant market - There are easier and more cost effective routes to make money on. The fact that we even have so many airlines still flying their own metal to AKL is remarkable given how low yielding and cost prohibitive it is to fly here. The transtasman still has CI/LA in addition to QF/JQ/EK & NZ/VA.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12796 times:

Will CZ be sending the A380 to AKL on a permanent basis?

User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 130, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12753 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 129):
If monopolies and duopolies are not your bag then New Zealand is probably not the right country to reside in. That is just part of everyday life here.

I like this roll over and accept it mentality, very New Zealand. But I suppose it conforms to the company line (how NZ can oppose this when it mirrors the Virgin deal, I dunno).

As you state, there aren't a whole lot of other competitors lining up to dive in. Which is exactly why regulators should do everything possible to maintain existing competition. Neither QF (group) nor EK were going to pull off the Tasman. Nor likely was DJ, if only for the need to maintain the more lucrative routes to the Pacific Islands.

But you know, ho hum, whatevs. Right?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 129):
The fact that we even have so many airlines still flying their own metal to AKL is remarkable given how low yielding and cost prohibitive it is to fly here

Are you basing this on your experience with NZ? I suspect a lot of the airlines flying to AKL have a lower cost base than NZ. And how do we know their yields are crummy? They can't be that bad if airlines like CX and SQ still send their metal here.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 131, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12737 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 131):
But you know, ho hum, whatevs. Right?

I'd rather the market work it out.

For many (leisure and VFR) flying is discretionary and they can elect not to go if the fares are perceived to be out of whack.

Airlines are extraordinarily price sensitive. If traffic drops off, they (usually) quickly adjust. Market share is a compelling imperative (rightly or wrongly) and no one is deliberately trying to fly half-empty planes.

Or if there is a perceived unfulfilled demand, it would be an open invitation to someone - Tiger, say - to come in and restore the market balance.

The idea that the Qantas/Emirates tie-up is being held hostage (five years instead of ten) because of the Tasman routes is silly, I think. If the regulator wants to flex his muscles, carve those routes out.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7262 posts, RR: 13
Reply 132, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12674 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 132):
I'd rather the market work it out.

Same here. deregulation and a free market is the only way to go. regulators in this part of the world are far too powerful and involved for their own good. They should let the market regulate itself. A deregulated market is healthy and not artificially propped up by regulator/government interference.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 130):
Will CZ be sending the A380 to AKL on a permanent basis?

not unless they did decide to go to South America...

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 131):
Are you basing this on your experience with NZ? I suspect a lot of the airlines flying to AKL have a lower cost base than NZ. And how do we know their yields are crummy? They can't be that bad if airlines like CX and SQ still send their metal here.

I know most of the airline reps and Station Managers personally, having handled many of their services for many years. I am aware of many of their cost bases, and yes many are lower than NZs, but that doesn't necessarily make things inherently more profitable for them. Most carriers no longer have year round yields like they used to when I started in the industry. I think you would be surprised at how closeto the wind many of these airlines operate


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 133, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12578 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 133):
Same here. deregulation and a free market is the only way to go. regulators in this part of the world are far too powerful and involved for their own good. They should let the market regulate itself. A deregulated market is healthy and not artificially propped up by regulator/government interference.
Quoting mariner (Reply 132):
I'd rather the market work it out.

Generally, I would agree. Except aerorobnz pointed out explicitly how, from the customer perspective, the market has failed. New Zealand's market characteristics makes it highly unlikely that another airline would bother entering the market in the event of mono/duopolistic pricing. The propspects for a home-grown solution are even lower, given past experience (predatory proicing from major players, bung business plans) and a dearth of investment capital. Hence why I would argue we have to do everything possilbe to maintain the existing competition.

And what's the last resort when a market fails/is failing? Regulators. And I'm glad we've got them.

Quoting mariner (Reply 132):
Airlines are extraordinarily price sensitive.

As are customers. But NZ is increasingly less interested in price-sensitive passengers. At least, that's what they tell shareholders.

Quoting mariner (Reply 132):
Or if there is a perceived unfulfilled demand, it would be an open invitation to someone - Tiger, say - to come in and restore the market balance.

Tiger would have been an option, had it not just been bought by Virgin.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 133):
I think you would be surprised at how closeto the wind many of these airlines operate

Not at all. It's razor thin margins are notorious. But clearly the marginal benefit of flying to AKL outweighs that of serving other major world cities. Or perhaps these carriers take a more sophisticated view of their operations, seeing how serving a destination enhances the overall performance of their network. Regardless, the underlying cost base does count, particularly if you're looking at a route through a narrow mindset of a standalone operation.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 134, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12559 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 134):
And what's the last resort when a market fails/is failing? Regulators. And I'm glad we've got them.

I don't see that the market is "failing."

I might the concept of regulators as a safety net, but not as a nanny. I'm a big boy, I don't need one.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 134):
Tiger would have been an option, had it not just been bought by Virgin.

It doesn't matter who owns Tiger, the business model is based on lower fares. If Mr. Borghetti wants to change that, he's bought a pig in a poke.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 135, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12475 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 135):
It doesn't matter who owns Tiger, the business model is based on lower fares. If Mr. Borghetti wants to change that, he's bought a pig in a poke.

Of course ownership matters. Ownership equals control. Control over where what was a competitor may now deploy resources, its rate of growth, its overall strategy. Contrast that with an independent Tiger.

I'm in Australia for work at the moment and much of the analyst/government reaction to the Tiger deal that I've been privvy to was of the suspicion that it was really just a move to rid Virgin of a competitor (along with Skywest, which could have grown on the back of the west's resource boom).

Quoting mariner (Reply 135):
I'm a big boy, I don't need one.

I suggest then that you're overestimating your ability to influence things. Remind me again how you managed to convince Telecom to lower termination rates and split the company in two. In an environment where the population is small and the distance is great, I think New Zealand has pretty robust regulatory environment. And if you're bemused as to why it exists as it does, then there's your answer.

Anyway, moaning aside, I'll be writing to Brownlee, given the alliance still needs New Zealand regulatory approval (and Singaporean, for some reason). It's not much, and yeah it probably wont make a jot of difference, but better than going round in circles on here.

[Edited 2012-12-20 21:43:34]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 136, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12465 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 136):
Of course ownership matters.

Jetstar provides (generally) lower fares than Qantas. It is it's reason for being.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 136):
I suggest then that you're overestimating your ability to influence things. Remind me again how you managed to convince Telecom to lower termination rates and split the company in two.

On my own? I don't claim to be able to influence anything much - or even at all. Even my vote in New Zealand is corrupted by MMP. Regulators, again?

And my war with Telecom is ongoing. They have never been able to explain to me how I get "free" local calls when I can only make any calls with an expensive plan. It's bull dust, but I guess it has regulatory approval.

I have just been quite strenuously quizzed on the phone by someone at Air NZ as to why I put the airline as my 2nd choice for TT travel but I don't expect it to achieve anything. I can only hope they'll do something about the catering on my last flight, several pax complained about it, as did I. The power of more than one, perhaps?

Mostly, I vote with my wallet. What else can "one" do?

Write letters? Sure, I'm all for that and I write a few. Go for it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12481 times:

Would LAX-AKL be a good route for the AA 788? NZ has a monopoly on direct services between the two countries so there's probably space to undercut their prices.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 138, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12312 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 138):

IMHO I'm not expecting AA to land in AKL any time soon as AA have connections to New Zealand via Australia obviously with QF. DL maybe, but then again DL already operate to Australia and DL and Virgin have a code-share deal on New Zealand flights. Could DL decide to operate LAX-AKL-SYD? UA were going to be operating IAH-AKL flights by now with the B788 but obviously UA used the Southwest being granted International rights as the excuse for cancelling those flights.

In terms of AC, no, especially not with NZ operating YVR flights


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12104 times:

Going from LAX to AKL involves a significant backtrack, and QF flew the route until recently. Maybe AA could time it to connect with LAX-LHR.

User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12027 times:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...0747/Push-for-magnificent-Mainland

Could we see the return of NZ's CHC-LAX service with the new CEO?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 141, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11973 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 138):
Would LAX-AKL be a good route for the AA 788? NZ has a monopoly on direct services between the two countries so there's probably space to undercut their prices.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 139):

IMHO I'm not expecting AA to land in AKL any time soon as AA have connections to New Zealand via Australia obviously with QF
Quoting 777ER (Reply 139):
Going from LAX to AKL involves a significant backtrack, and QF flew the route until recently. Maybe AA could time it to connect with LAX-LHR.

IMHO the problem with this suggestion is that AA has plenty of other routes that probably would make more money than LAX-AKL. I don't expect AA to serve ANYWHERE in the SW Pacific, with their own metal/plastic in the near future. With their JBA with QF they probably gather almost as much or more profit as they would with any combination of routes they served themselves with NO capital outlay on their part. It'd have to be a VERY profitable route to attract AA own metal, and I really doubt there is such a route in the SW Pacific.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25419 posts, RR: 86
Reply 142, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11874 times:
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Quoting xiaotung (Reply 141):
Could we see the return of NZ's CHC-LAX service with the new CEO?

The article suggests they think ti will happen, as well as a China service. I think China - PVG? - would be interesting.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-tim...8/Chinese-visitors-good-for-Wanaka

"China overtook the UK to become New Zealand's second-biggest tourism market in the year to November 2012.

Australia remained the biggest source of visitors, accounting for 45 percent of all visitors compared with 8 percent for China.

Population statistics manager Andrea Blackburn said arrivals from China reached 194,800 in November, up 38 percent on the previous year.

In contrast, visitor numbers from the UK have been declining for the last five years, with a 17 percent decrease in the last 12 months bring the number down to 191,400.

Visitors from China were mostly holidaymakers (71 percent) with a median age of 47.

Lake Wanaka tourism chief executive James Helmore said between 20 and 25 percent of Chinese visitors ended up coming to the Southern Lakes region.

The Chinese New Year was going to be ''massive'' for Queenstown and Wanaka in 2013 with four star accommodation almost booked out, he said."


I guess it wouldn't be high frequency.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11769 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 141):
Could we see the return of NZ's CHC-LAX service with the new CEO?

The problem being last time it was tried it didn't lead to any growth in the overall New Zealand to L.A. market, it simply cannibalised some of the Auckland to L.A. market. Especially post Earthquake in Chch, what has really changed?


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 144, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11764 times:

Apart from HA coming to AKL think it was raised in another thread, that no other US airline is going to start an AKL service so NZ have got it to themselves until JQ think about it.

have notice that the 787's are running into some teething problems, most recently LOT's first 2 787's went tech! within a few hours with a few problems, will this run into the 787-9 program?? and can NZ afford any more delays!!??



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 145, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11720 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 145):
Apart from HA coming to AKL think it was raised in another thread, that no other US airline is going to start an AKL service so NZ have got it to themselves until JQ think about it.

I wonder if EK would push QF to reopen AKL-LAX and then offer some RTW options. It has been a known fact that EK wanted to start the route themselves but I wonder if they could muster enough capacity to get QF to reinstate such a route as QF and not JQ.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 146, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11714 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 146):
I wonder if EK would push QF to reopen AKL-LAX and then offer some RTW options. It has been a known fact that EK wanted to start the route themselves but I wonder if they could muster enough capacity to get QF to reinstate such a route as QF and not JQ.

There has been talk of late of this... it would be a QF flight as EK would not be able to operate it. If EK were to pick up half the tab then it might become viable again for QF.
Along similar lines is that QF is apparently now considering SYD-DFW-AKL-SYD with A380s.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days ago) and read 11651 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 144):
The problem being last time it was tried it didn't lead to any growth in the overall New Zealand to L.A. market, it simply cannibalised some of the Auckland to L.A. market. Especially post Earthquake in Chch, what has really changed?

I understand NZ's reluctance to fly long haul anywhere other than AKL, but it will not stop foreign airlines operating into CHC as they don't have this problem. Once that happens the Auckland long haul market is cannibalised anyway. Perhaps what has changed is the pressure from other current and potential foreign carriers.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 148, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11503 times:
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Could someone tell me please what aircraft is operating NZ6 tonight please?

[Edited 2012-12-22 12:18:57]

User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11407 times:

Anyone know the delivery flight details for ZK-MVB? It's showing as delivered to NZ 22/12/12!

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 150, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11340 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 147):
Along similar lines is that QF is apparently now considering SYD-DFW-AKL-SYD with A380s.

Hmm, and where would they get the A380s from? Reduce LHR further? Or LAX, which I can't see them doing. I think they just added a new F lounge at HKG and the A380 is will soon be the only aircraft with F so I don't see them removing those.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 145):
Apart from HA coming to AKL think it was raised in another thread, that no other US airline is going to start an AKL service so NZ have got it to themselves until JQ think about it.

I still think maybe DL could seriously consider AKL. Other than that last I heard AIAL were still talking with UA, though UA in star with NZ means likely not from LAX or SFO and IAH isn't happening.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 141):
Could we see the return of NZ's CHC-LAX service with the new CEO?

I wouldn't think so myself, maybe JQ from CHC rather than potentially AKL? I think CZ will do CAN-CHC sometime though.


User currently offlineBonzoLab From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11263 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 150):

Sometime during the afternoon of the 27th.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 152, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11312 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 138):
Would LAX-AKL be a good route for the AA 788? NZ has a monopoly on direct services between the two countries so there's probably space to undercut their prices.

I'm pretty sure AA's cost base is quite a bit higher than that of Air New Zealand.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 151):
I wouldn't think so myself, maybe JQ from CHC rather than potentially AKL? I think CZ will do CAN-CHC sometime though.

Qantas' AKL-LAX flights were already the longest route operated by an A330, so I think that flying CHC-LAX with an A330 would be a bit too far.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 153, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11267 times:
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All flights from WLG are delayed or cancelled this afternoon due to fog. My flight to AKL was cancelled. Now re-booked on tomorrows LAX flight.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel...-sees-Wellington-flights-cancelled

Anyone know the rego operating NZ2?

[Edited 2012-12-22 22:12:02]

User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 154, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11181 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 154):

It's gonna be chaos tomorrow. Especially if the fog doesn't lift


User currently offlinehaggis73 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11145 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 154):
Anyone know the rego operating NZ2?

Looking at tomorrows sheet when I left work tonight, it was OKP.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6436 posts, RR: 38
Reply 156, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days ago) and read 11037 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 155):

Sounded like chaos. I arrived back in AKL at 7pm and they were saying that there was no space for rebookings until the 15:30 flight. And I don't suppose they have spare widebody capacity as that'll all be on the Islands/Aussie?


A side note - I took the first Air NZ/Mt Cook Airline flight back to MON yesterday... What an awesome experience it was. Even those oblivious to it were certainly happy with the stopover.




It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 157, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days ago) and read 11040 times:
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Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 155):

Wellington's expecting low cloud with light winds. Guess PPQ and PMR are always an option if the weather looks touch and go. Tried to change to a PPQ flight at WLG yesterday but the time was pushing it. When I left WLG yesterday to come home around 4.30pm the lines of passengers wanting to speak to check-in staff was stretching over to the VA and JQ counters.

Quoting haggis73 (Reply 156):

SWEET! Thanks for some good news   Now I've just got to make that flight!


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7108 posts, RR: 12
Reply 158, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 156):

That's pretty cool, I remember flying into there a few years ago, that was a good experience, I can only imagine it would be alot more so in an ATR.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 157):

Probably best to set yourself a cut off time where by after that you start trekking up to PMR or PPQ. Read the stuff article this morning and it said there is still a good chance of fog rolling in again this afternoon. Either way, hope you make your flight


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 159, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10849 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 150):
Hmm, and where would they get the A380s from? Reduce LHR further? Or LAX, which I can't see them doing. I think they just added a new F lounge at HKG and the A380 is will soon be the only aircraft with F so I don't see them removing those.

QF currently has a spare A380 since Nancy Bird came back (when not refitting other A380s). The aircraft also currently spend about 15 hours each day on the ground at LHR. With the EK deal they could probably change one of those back to leaving in the morning gaining an extra 12 hours worth of aircraft. Some minor tweaks to other flights and you'd have it.
Of course I would have though frequency (daily) would be more important than capacity especially since capacity isn't an issue on this flight.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.