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Qantas Pulls Support From Tourism Australia  
User currently onlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

Quote:
QANTAS has dumped its 40-year partnership with the federal government's tourism body, claiming its boss Geoff Dixon is deliberately trying to sabotage the airline.

The national carrier has suspended a $50 million marketing deal with Tourism Australia, claiming its chairman Mr Dixon, a former Qantas CEO, was "agitating" behind the scenes to remove the current Qantas management. Qantas has formally suspended its relationship and will now redirect its significant marketing budget, which helps the federal government market Australia overseas, to state-based tourism bodies.

Seems that Alan Joyce thinks that the Tourism Australia head and ex QF CEO Geoff Dixon wants his old job back. Qantas and Australian tourism will both lose here and Joyce proves again that he doesn't play well with others.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...otage/story-e6freuy9-1226525282406


BV
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5148 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Thread starter):
Qantas and Australian tourism will both lose here and Joyce proves again that he doesn't play well with others.

I believe his showing who's boss... Once again I am beginning to like the guy...

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-27 21:11:04]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 1):
I believe his showing who's boss... Once again I am beginning to like the guy...

Does this stop Geoff Dixon? No, it just removes Qantas from Tourism Australia campaigns... I'm guessing that Virgin Australia will be on the phone to pick up the slack.

Its pointless self defeating posturing that harms Qantas's bottom line.



BV
User currently offlineqantas717 From Australia, joined Nov 2012, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Thread starter):
Joyce proves again that he doesn't play well with others

I'm beginning to dislike Alan Joyce and to a lesser unrelated point, Jetstar aswell.

The two of those seem to be ripping Qantas limb from Limb.

Regards

Matt


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5946 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 1):
I believe his showing who's boss... Once again I am beginning to like the guy...

I agree.

I fail to see how this actually harms Qantas. After all, people who decide to vacation in Australia because of a Tourism Australia campaign are more likely to just find the cheapest fair online than default to Qantas because they were featured in the commercial.

Meanwhile it fires a shot across Geoff Dixon's bows. If he has any sense he will steer clear away from Qantas.

As Tim Clark said, "If they've retired, retire"

Quoting qantas717 (Reply 3):
I'm beginning to dislike Alan Joyce and to a lesser unrelated point, Jetstar aswell.

Joyce was handed a sh*** sandwich by Dixon, who launched Jetstar and set it on its course, failed to address the fact that international operations were chronically loss making, and - despite much posturing - didn't actually achieve any progress with labour groups.

Joyce has, if nothing else, sorted out the labour mess and is implementing a plan to make Qantas' international operations profitable for the first time since 1994.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

It's well-known that I consider Alan Joyce to be a blundering incompetent whose dogma makes him unable to exhibit the pragmatism required to effectively run a legacy carrier which has contractual obligations which it cannot abrogate.

I also believe that the Chairman of Qantas and the CEO are deliberately sabotaging Qantas mainline in favour of Jetstar as a means of trying to shed contracts and legislation which they do not like.

But I will stand up for Joyce here.

Dixon would have destroyed the company with the APA private equity takeover in 2007, and pretty much everyone in Australia knows that Qantas dodged a GFC-sized bullet. What is extraordinary is that Dixon does not have the insight to see how monumentally appalling his judgment was, and that he would have walked off with his $8 million just prior to the airline inevitably failing.

It is a damning indictment on Australian corporate governance that Dixon remains employable anywhere. And shareholders across Australia should be appalled that fund managers would so much as countenance Dixon being allowed anywhere near Qantas. There are hundreds of thousands of Australian schoolchildren who could run Qantas more safely than Dixon, millions if you add secondary school children to the equation.

Sadly, corporate Australia is like that. A closed shop of incompetent nobodies who act as cheerleaders for one another and populate one another's boardrooms. Quite how or why General Peter Cosgrove is considered qualified to be on the Board of Qantas is a mystery that nobody I know has ever been able to answer. (And he is a director on a number of boards of other organisations which he is equally unqualified to express an opinion on, let alone have a vote).

And while my school example was deliberately provocative, any Principal of any school in Australia already has superior human resource management skills to the current crop at Qantas, and most could make better aviation decisions too.

It is no exaggeration to say that most special school attendees could tell what was better between Virgin's 2-2-2 A330 Business Class or Qantas' new 2-3-2 A330 Business Class with a lid covering one seat cushion. Joyce and friends are betting the company that Business Class passengers are not smart enough to tell the difference. When an airline's management views its highest-yielding customers with such ill-disguised contempt it is clear that problems lie ahead.

That is the calibre of management which Qantas' long-suffering staff and customers have had to endure in recent years.

But I say good luck to Joyce: Dixon is the most destructive force Qantas has known in recent years, and the less he has to do with the airline the better.

[Edited 2012-11-27 22:19:18]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5946 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
I say good luck to Joyce: Dixon is the most destructive force Qantas has known in recent years, and the less he has to do with the airline the better.

Koruman, I think you have just encapsulated the issue perfectly. And it carries so much more weight coming from you, given that - as you say - you aren't exactly an Alan Joyce cheerleader.

While I won't comment on your view of QF management here, there is no doubt that some of their decisions are bizarre. Nonetheless, whatever anyone's personal views of Joyce, they should prefer him to Dixon.

After all, Jetstar is better than nothing at all!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):
didn't actually achieve any progress with labour groups.

I don't know how you can say this. What is the LHR cabin crew base, if not progress? I think AKL and BKK were also set up in Dixon's time, even if the BKK is no more under the QF banner.


User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

i am beginning to like Joyce!!!!! Show them that they cant play around with your business.... !!! GO Qantas, GO! You will be the winner at the end!

User currently onlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
Dixon would have destroyed the company with the APA private equity takeover in 2007, and pretty much everyone in Australia knows that Qantas dodged a GFC-sized bullet. What is extraordinary is that Dixon does not have the insight to see how monumentally appalling his judgment was, and that he would have walked off with his $8 million just prior to the airline inevitably failing.

I agree with this.

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
That is the calibre of management which Qantas' long-suffering staff and customers have had to endure in recent years.

This too.

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
But I say good luck to Joyce: Dixon is the most destructive force Qantas has known in recent years, and the less he has to do with the airline the better.

But not this, Joyce is clearly the most destructive force, he has taken the mistakes of Dixon & Co and doubled down. He is the perfect example of a dumb management theory CEO, he has read the book on management and he is not going to allow any actual evidence to sway him from his course.

He is way to dumb to be in charge of a once great company but clearly people love his destructive policies.



BV
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 3034 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

I don't see an issue with this move.

If a chairman of another partner organisation has a conflict of interest in any way, it was either GD resigning from his role or a termination of the partnership occurs.

Overall, with the plan in motion for a EK partnership, it seems QF has finally got a strategic direction. Trying to go back to the glory days as some seem to think, with so many LH destinations on their own metal isn't going to happen. This is clearly evident with the way airlines across the world are changing their operations. Its just the way of the world.


User currently offlineAuchmithie From UK - England, joined Sep 2010, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):
I fail to see how this actually harms Qantas. After all, people who decide to vacation in Australia because of a Tourism Australia campaign are more likely to just find the cheapest fair online than default to Qantas because they were featured in the commercial.

Having spent 10 years as an Aussie specialist in a UK agency I beg to differ.The airline branded in the big national TV and press campaign usually gets the sale.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2238 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

I'm not sure what the current state of play is, but in recent times state tourism bodies like Victoria seem to have had more success than the national body, with its cringeworthy advertising. I seem to recall that some of those states' ads involve Virgin flights, so maybe this is another attempt to claw back domestic market share.

At least Joyce seems to have a plan for Qantas rather than letting it fade away and I have seen some improvements in service since he started. Come to think of it Jetstar was more dynamic when he was boss of that. I suspect that Dixon is missing the prestige and attention his old job afforded him and Singo is a known peddler of crap. I'm loathe to praise anyone in the closed shop of psychopathy, power plays and egos that is Australian big business management, but I hope that Joyce is more concerned with doing a good job for the airline than in consolidating power, but Dixon has already proved that he isn't.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Good on Joyce!

I think Joyce is finally starting to show us what he is capable of doing and I think he is heading the right direction.

If he destroys QF, I will eat my hat.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting qantas717 (Reply 3):
I'm beginning to dislike Alan Joyce and to a lesser unrelated point, Jetstar aswell.

Had you asked me 12 months ago I probably would've agreed but one thing for certain I've been level headed towards the decisions made by AJ and if he didn't pull the plug during the Industrial strike action the image of QF would've been far worse with never ending cancellations and delays... The man has balls of steel and has proven why his been given the top job...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):
Joyce was handed a sh*** sandwich by Dixon, who launched Jetstar and set it on its course, failed to address the fact that international operations were chronically loss making, and - despite much posturing - didn't actually achieve any progress with labour groups.

You hit the nail in the head with that comment!

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
Dixon would have destroyed the company with the APA private equity takeover in 2007, and pretty much everyone in Australia knows that Qantas dodged a GFC-sized bullet. What is extraordinary is that Dixon does not have the insight to see how monumentally appalling his judgment was, and that he would have walked off with his $8 million just prior to the airline inevitably failing.

Another reminder why GD needs to steer clear of QF and back off & let AJ does his job... Here's a reminder of the planned takeover and what it meant http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=3100

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
But I say good luck to Joyce: Dixon is the most destructive force Qantas has known in recent years, and the less he has to do with the airline the better.

Agree totally!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
After all, Jetstar is better than nothing at all!!!

JetStar might be a low-cost and I ain't a fan of such carriers but end of the day it worked to protect the mainline carrier...

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 13):
If he destroys QF, I will eat my hat.

Can you eat my hat too!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 941 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
But I will stand up for Joyce here
Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
It is a damning indictment on Australian corporate governance that Dixon remains employable anywhere. And shareholders across Australia should be appalled that fund managers would so much as countenance Dixon being allowed anywhere near Qantas
Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
But I say good luck to Joyce: Dixon is the most destructive force Qantas has known in recent years, and the less he has to do with the airline the better.

Koruman, I thank you for the above.
You will note that I have not quoted other things you said, as I totally disagree with those comments, however do I see a chink in thou armour (only kidding).
IMHO, AJ and the board had no other option than to come out with boots and all on this matter. Yes, probably plays into JB's hands a little however $9Billion, nope, won't happen. Wonder where that info came from?? Might be worth investigating who the source was!!!



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineSInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Qantas is very good at throwing out this nebulous concept of "national interest" when it suits it but cutting funding to Tourism Australia and, if unsubstantiated press reports are to be believed, influencing Emirates to do the same does not appear to be an act in the name of "national interest".


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 2):
Does this stop Geoff Dixon? No, it just removes Qantas from Tourism Australia campaigns... I'm guessing that Virgin Australia will be on the phone to pick up the slack.

Lets not forget that each State and Territory has their own tourism marketing boards independent of Tourism Australia. So while QF withdraws from here it has plenty of avenues to get its brand out there. Besides which, over recent years Tourism Australias efforts at marketing and promotion have been appalling. I'm surprised Qantas hasn't made this decision earlier.

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
It is no exaggeration to say that most special school attendees could tell what was better between Virgin's 2-2-2 A330 Business Class or Qantas' new 2-3-2 A330 Business Class with a lid covering one seat cushion. Joyce and friends are betting the company that Business Class passengers are not smart enough to tell the difference. When an airline's management views its highest-yielding customers with such ill-disguised contempt it is clear that problems lie ahead.

I think there is more to come on this issue. (i.e. a total cabin re-fit and standardisation once the 787's start arriving at Jetstar) I honestly think that if the IPAD's prove to be as popular on the 767's as Lyell Strambi thinks they will, then QF should refit the rest of the mainline fleet with them as the 767's are retired.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 7):
I don't know how you can say this. What is the LHR cabin crew base, if not progress? I think AKL and BKK were also set up in Dixon's time, even if the BKK is no more under the QF banner.

This can be argued either way. While setting up these bases, Dixon didn't actually cut the costs of doing business back in Australia rather he grandfathered in the higher cost Australian labour in order to get these bases. He also rolled over to the Engineers and Baggage Handlers. (So did James Strong for that matter but lets not stretch history back too far) That's all fine and dandy when Qantas is making a billion dollars a year before the Middle East Carriers and the Chinese Carriers started to really ramp up capacity.

Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 16):
Qantas is very good at throwing out this nebulous concept of "national interest" when it suits it but cutting funding to Tourism Australia and, if unsubstantiated press reports are to be believed, influencing Emirates to do the same does not appear to be an act in the name of "national interest".

Again, Qantas and Emirates are commercial entities. They haven't really played a "national interest" card here and have plenty of other outlets for their marketing dollars. (ie all of the state based tourism bodies who would be happy to have $40 million a year injected into them) It's no big deal other than in the context of the speech in which the news was delivered.

And someone still has to explain to me how selling off Jetstar and the frequent flyer program benefits QF group as a whole. (Other than the bankers who would be rolling in fee's and bonuses to do it!) This new group wants to re-focus on Asia but I thought that's what QF was doing anyway?


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Okay folks I've left this one alone but now i must speak up, this one is too serious.

Firstly, lets call this out for exactly what it is. AN OLD FASHIONED CORPORATE RAID. This is not Dixon
with some alternative version of how things should be run. This isn't fund managers who love Qantas so much
they want to see 787 service to every city on the globe. Don't fall for that.

Some of you here have business experience and it will be very obvious what's going on here, but a lot of other
people here come from backgrounds that don't involve wearing the business hat. So let me spell out a few things.
but it call comes down to one thing. THE SUM OF THE PARTS IS WORTH MORE THAN THE ORIGINAL WHOLE.

Think of it like this. QF has lots of assets. Frequent Flyer. Jetstar. Real Estate and of course, the easiest
one to deal with but one that is the life blood of any airline, cash in the bank. (absolutely essential to have a reserve
in a business that is traditionally known to make losses some quarters that are known to be made up for on other quarters).

Now we have already heard talk of 'returning equity to shareholders' This means splitting things up and paying it back to itself (the shareholders )as a dividend.

Let me pain the picture.
Firstly you sell off frequent flyer...probably to one of their investment funds. Then you float jetstar on the stock exchange. Now to give you some idea how profitable this can be, a lot of companies have what we call a price earnings ratio of around 12 in Australia. It was even higher again in China or in the USA. So lets say we can give jetstar a $500 million a year profit. That would probably at a guess value it around $6 Billon alone. Thats before maybe we stripped 3 billion out of the bank at QF. Sold of other facilities like real estate, catering etc. Get the picture. Now to keep you all fooled, Mr Dixon and friends would order another 30 787s and say they're for service to all these destinations everybody wants to fly etc etc etc, knowing too well they'll never be delivered.

So, if it costs them maybe 2 billion to do it, and at the end of the day they're left holding worthless Qantas shares they don't give a rats ass... they are well well well ahead. If you guys want to see the play book go back to the 80s and see what happened in NYC with Eastern and Continental etc. It was a bloody mess, but Gordon Gecko and friends walked away with billions.


Meanwhile, jetstar management, who would walk away with both the international route authorities given to them, dedicated terminal facilities, and an established brand and market so its not like they're some new start up carrier struggling to make their presence felt, would start redirecting aircraft. After all, if the average fare was siginificatly higher on trunk capital routes, why would you push more of your frequency on lower performing routes? You wouldn't. So you'd immediately see, for example, half the flights going to the gold coast or hobart immediately on trunk routes that have higher fares. That would have the effect of trashing yeilds on these routes. QF, now without cash to fight back, and stuck with a higher cost structure, would start losing a significant amount of its domestic profitability.

Ask BA what happened when it let 'GO' start competing with its trunk domestic routes. They got rid of the thing because it wasn't just competing with the other LCC, but it was stealing traffic from BA itself. A key part of the JQ strategy has been to limit JQ's presence on QF routes to avoid this happening. So Game over there. Next, QF in order to stay competitive would probably have to drastically slash its costs. That means it would be priority to get rid of legacy staff. make no mistake. Currently those conditions are slowing being phased out, But if QF had to start competing with JQ instead of working with it, well... lets just say it created its own predator. And there would be nothing to stop JQ start offering a J class product either. And If this got up and was successful, well Emirates would lose any interest it had in the company too. Emirates would be after the QF frequent flyer program, but bust that up, and there goes all the appeal of it. Meanwhile Virgin would sense its old rival on ropes and you watch it start gaining both corporate contracts and start service to places like Hong Kong. See the picture? By pulling QF apart, you'd be removing its strengths, leaving it heavily debt burdened with higher costs than everybody else and little ability to reinvent itself. And if you think what I am saying is crazy, Geoff Dixon has already tried it once before. He's already proven he's not above it.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 18):
Firstly, lets call this out for exactly what it is. AN OLD FASHIONED CORPORATE RAID

You know, as soon as I started reading about this in the press and about what they were proposing all I could think about was Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo. Sell off the valuable parts to give shareholders wealth a boost but look what happened to what was left of TWA and Eastern when they were finished. The Unions would be nuts to give them a leg up.


User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Time to re-word the lyrics in the song: I still call Australia home.

It should soon be sung : I still call U.A.E home.

KC Sim


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 19):
You know, as soon as I started reading about this in the press and about what they were proposing all I could think about was Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo
Quoting aviasian (Reply 20):

Time to re-word the lyrics in the song: I still call Australia home.

It should soon be sung : I still call U.A.E home.

I think you're missing the point. Even if it were possibly for EK to control 100%
of QF they'd be in a lot better shape than if this lot get their hands on them.
EK still has a strong desire to see the group stay as a single group an in the flying business,
because that way it sends lots of passengers to dubai. The other lot only want to split the business
up and sell parts of it to get their hands on cash as fast as possible, regardless of the long
term consequences for the group.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 19):
You know, as soon as I started reading about this in the press and about what they were proposing all I could think about was Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo. Sell off the valuable parts to give shareholders wealth a boost but look what happened to what was left of TWA and Eastern when they were finished. The Unions would be nuts to give them a leg up.

        

That is EXACTLY my thoughts too. It's been done before, there is a text book example of how to get
away with it.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25698 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1746 times:
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Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 16):
Qantas is very good at throwing out this nebulous concept of "national interest" when it suits it but cutting funding to Tourism Australia and, if unsubstantiated press reports are to be believed, influencing Emirates to do the same does not appear to be an act in the name of "national interest".


Oh, I dunno. Tourism Australia is a fairly incompetent body. The Baz Luhrman "Walkabout" ads were pretentious nonsense and the "Where the bloody hell are you?" campaign was an accepted disaster:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-0...looks-beyond-controversial/1036344

"Tourism Australia looks beyond 'controversial campaign'

The $180 million campaign generated much publicity around the world but did not generate any major increase in visitor numbers."


So perhaps Mr. Joyce is right about the national interest.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 23):

& once again I back his decision on pulling the plug!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
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