iksu From Finland, joined Nov 2011, 5 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7279 times:
I might as well make this my first post after lurking around a.net for quite some time.
As per information in Finnair intranet, A330 will be used to operate this route. Flight times are HEL HAN 10h 10min and return 10h 50min. This will not be capacity increase as flight will operate with aircraft released from shuffling around summer schedule. Initially this will be a seasonal route only, operational from summer 2013 to 27OCT13.
I hope we do well with this 12th Asian destination!
okAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7243 times:
I am a little surprised of the choice,as mentioned here a few airlines have tried it with little success. Now, I am sure AY has made their homework and done market analysis to see if the profit is there or not. Have they found a market others have missed? I had been waiting for a new long haul announcement from AY for some time now, but I must admit I had my bet on KUL.
smbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 104 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7170 times:
LOT tried Hanoi with 767 from WAW and OK served Vietnam with A320 on a technical stop.
Both stopped. AFAIK, load factors were good, but not enough yield.
The thing is, that Vietnamese populations in Poland, Czech Republic and around are quite big and most of them now using hubs in the west to get there (FRA, AMS, MUC, CDG, etc.) or TK to Ho Chi Minh City. Finnair is really strong in Eastern Europe feeding HEL so I think, they believe they just become best available option in this market. They are able to do this route with existing fleet so maybe they will make money from seasonal route even with not so high yield.
smbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 104 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6637 times:
Quoting BreninTW (Reply 9): I can't see any point in going north from Eastern Europe to HEL and then to HAN when you could fly via one of the Middle Eastern hubs.
The same - it is shorter way. PRG/WAW - HEL - HAN is 500 nm shorter then PRG/WAW - DXB - HAN. And still, MEB3 is not so strong in Eastern Europe. Emirates and Qatar is coming to WAW only next year. No MEB3 in Baltics, other Poland cities except WAW, BUD has only Qatar, etc.
Even LON-HEL-HAN is 900nm shorter then LON-DXB-HAN. That is the model Finnair business plan is based on.
okAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
Quoting BreninTW (Reply 9): Instead of drawing on feed from Europe, could AY be planning on connecting from the East Coast US? It would make some sense to travel from East Coast US to HAN via HEL, rather than flying through LAX.
According to the Great Circle Mapper, NYC - HEL - HAN is approximately 2,000 miles shorter than NYC - LAX - HAN.
(Sorry, can't get a workable link to post)
North-America-Asia through HEL has been discussed for years. Let's see what AY has stored. But I think they might want to wait for the economic sitution to improve a little in the US before and if they are to make a move in that direction.
AY has already been selling North America to Asia already albeit it had not the greatest connections and one way was with BA. I was going to grab a ticket at a reasonable fare from YYZ to ICN, but then the fare jumped on me and I ended up going to Asia via another untraditional routing.
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 439 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6375 times:
I think it's a great move for Finnair and probably a service that are more aimed to serve Nordic passengers rather than Europe in general. In that way, I think the failure of LOT and CSA has little relevant as the average income and travel pattern are of significant difference from the Nordic countries. This part of Asia is a huge market from FI/SE/DK/NO.
Thailand is booming from all the Nordic countries with ridiculously high capacity and an demand that seems to never end. Vietnam could easily surf on the same wave and I think that's what Finnair are thinking too. It's a "new" destination for travelers loving Thailand who want's to crank up their vacation with something more exotic. Don't forget that many Nordic passengers have visited Thailand several times and that Vietnam are seen as a "new" Thailand for those who are seeking a new taste of Asia.
The success of a carrier depends on it's ability to build it owns markets. I therefore think it's very vice of Finnair to launch Vietnam. Also when it comes to the future competition with Norwegian who most definitely have stated that Vietnam will be launched from OSL and ARN in the near future.
My only thought is why they launch it for the summer season? Would not the demand be greater during the winter?
twa@fra From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6255 times:
With the increasing FDI into VN, means a lot of factories of blue chip companies opening as well as their supplies, I'm sure business travel must have increased quite a bit, which is a totally different market as VFR OK and to a certain extend LOT was focused on. Anyhow with TG,SQ alikes nearby, a tough market / area IMO
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5121 times:
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 17): I think the failure of LOT and CSA has little relevant as the average income and travel pattern are of significant difference from the Nordic countries.
However, the failure of AF should mean something. If AF can't make HAN work why would AY be able to do so? Yes, VN flies CDG-HAN (and LGW/FRA-HAN) but they have a lower cost base than AY.
Quoting twa@fra (Reply 19): With the increasing FDI into VN, means a lot of factories of blue chip companies opening as well as their supplies, I'm sure business travel must have increased quite a bit, which is a totally different market as VFR OK and to a certain extend LOT was focused on. Anyhow with TG,SQ alikes nearby, a tough market / area IMO
AFAIK Ho Chi Minh City is the main economic city in Vietnam, hence why it sees more air service.
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1191 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4581 times:
Quoting iksu (Reply 4): Initially this will be a seasonal route only, operational from summer 2013 to 27OCT13.
Interesting season - Finnair will be flying during the hottest part of the year! I would think - for leisure markets anyway - that the winter months would have greater demand. I'm no businessman, but I don't know that I'd want to fly to Vietnam during the summer!
AYVN From Vietnam, joined Jun 2011, 2 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4139 times:
I think it's quite ok season for Hanoi. It will be hot and humid in Jun - Oct, but during European winter, it's rather freezing in Hanoi. Actually anything north of Da Nang is quite cool in winter time, not good for heat seeking tourists. During winter season SGN would be the place to go.
What I would like to know is how AY is going to fill business seats? All economy would fly full every time as many Vietnamese living in Europe are real bargain hunters...
25 HELyes: HAN probably gets their newest A333's with most Y seats. And with the latest fully flat seats in Business Class In winter these new birds often fly l
26 Lufthansa: I'm guessing this is purely because they have more economy seats? I'm sure the J class travellers on the normal routes would prefer those seats?
27 twa@fra: I do not have any figures on hand of the split between north and south VN, as I was in Hanoi the last time I was just really impressed by all these n
28 HELyes: Yes the number of Y seats is the reason, I wish all their wide bodies had the new J-class seats. I once flew a 6h charter flight HEL-LPA in the new J
29 HELyes: Timetables: AY097 146 HEL 16:30 - HAN 06:40 A333 10h10min AY098 257 HAN 08:25 - HEL 15:20 A333 10h55min Price examples Jun 2013, return Y from AY webs
30 Lufthansa: Just as an Aside where does finnair usually send those A330s with the flat beds? They're a good way to get from Australia to Northern Europe in J at a
31 HELyes: From Australia the best chance to get AY flat bed is via BKK, rarely seen on HEL-HKG. HEL-SIN is only served by A343 due the distance.