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Qatar Airways To Launch Athens-New York  
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 294 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 27164 times:

I guess no one saw this coming.

This morning at a press conference in Athens, Akbar Al Baker announced the launch of daily non-stop flights between Athens and New York in the second half of 2013. According to the Greek press, the flights will be operated with 787 or A380 aircraft.
The articles don't specify if the flights will originate in DOH and if they will be to JFK or EWR, although JFK seems more likely given QR already flies there.

Links to articles in 3 major Greek newspapers (Greek only):
http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_a...les_kathremote_1_28/11/2012_471961
http://www.tovima.gr/finance/article/?aid=486059
http://www.tanea.gr/latestnews/artic.../?aid=4771267&wordsinarticle=qatar

122 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 27174 times:
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These Gulf carriers are beating up the European and now the U.S airlines with their mega hubs in the desert, now they're going to do it on their turf.

I'm not sure if Delta still flies the route, I think they dropped it. But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service? Tough decision


User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2694 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 27061 times:
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This is beyond amazing, however I know a few airlines that won't be happy at all if these flights materialize. I wonder if they might team up with Aegean to get some additional traffic from places like Cyprus and the Middle East.

By the way, can Athens even handle an A380? Last time I checked they couldn't.

[Edited 2012-11-28 08:18:04 by SA7700]

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 27027 times:

Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK but which no longer exists.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 26952 times:
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787 or A380, bit of a capacity gap here!

Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 26628 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!

more sense and logic, I don´t Qatar Airways is going to use the flagship of the fleet in a place that is not Doha... that´s not logic, i´m sure they will use to and from Doha non stop to NYC maybe but not via ATH.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK but which no longer exists.

ATH-NYC is much bigger market and higher yields, despite the crisis i´m sure they can do a nice revenue.

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I guess no one saw this coming.

Never ever....... it was a very well keep secret...


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 26607 times:

Clever move, and perhaps a sign of what's to come. The big 3 ME airlines routing long-haul via an underserved intermediate European point. In addition to their direct non-stop services. Wouldn't be surprised if in future they route some US services via regional points in the UK for example. If agreements allow....

User currently offlineswallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 26525 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK.

Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 26421 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 7):
Clever move, and perhaps a sign of what's to come. The big 3 ME airlines routing long-haul via an underserved intermediate European point. In addition to their direct non-stop services. Wouldn't be surprised if in future they route some US services via regional points in the UK for example. If agreements allow....

I wouldn't be all too surprised either, if they are allowed.

They've taken over a lot of markets, but Europe-North America they will never take via the middle east. If they keep DOH-North America, and extend DOH-Europe to America (ie DOH-MAN-JFK), they cover all markets, US-Arabia (plus connections), EUR-Arabia (plus connections) and the more local EUR-US.

But, don't think European or American airlines would be too happy, and I only think a handful of underserved city pairs would get the green light.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13263 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 26371 times:
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Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I guess no one saw this coming.

I didn't... I'm going to have to think of the business implications...

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
the flights will be operated with 787 or A380 aircraft.

Is AAB drunk?!? Seriously, if he had said 'operated with the 787 or 777' I wouldn't have noticed and we could have debated which is the better gauge. But the alternative being the A380? That was said for press coverage and nothing else.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 3):
can Athens even handle an A380?

Search Google for "athens airport A380." You will find that EK and AF have already done 'stunt flights' there and it is an approved diversion airport for the A380. A gate is cheap and quick.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
787 or A380, bit of a capacity gap here!

  

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 9):
if they are allowed.

That is a question worth asking... are they allowed?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 26104 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service?

I'm not sure passengers would notice any difference.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 5):
Let's be realistic, starting with a 788 makes more sense!

They will need something to do with those aircraft, but I think Greece would be better off with a low-cost carrier operating that route. Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with. I'm not sure the Greeks can afford that luxury these days.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 25663 times:
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Quoting babybus (Reply 11):

The passengers might not notice the diference between a 787 and a 767, but they will notice the diference between Qatar's and Delta's service.

Qatar's flight attendants will go the extra mile to keep you happy, their jobs depend on it.

Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you


User currently offlinerbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 25456 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you

I don't believe DL's FAs have a union anymore, although organization efforts are ongoing.


User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2190 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 25478 times:

Quoting swallow (Reply 8):

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EK operating DXB-HAM-JFK.

Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

But there is an important difference: Qatar flies between Athens and New York only because it is interested in the Athens-New York market. SQ and NZ have to stop in FRA and LAX respectively because the planes need to make a technical stop.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
But the alternative being the A380? That was said for press coverage and nothing else.

I sometimes get the feeling that AAB is the Michael O'Leary of high end airlines.

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
I'm not sure passengers would notice any difference.

Since your post doesn´t sound like sarcasm I simply assume that you have not yourself flown both airlines to be in a position to compare. Especially upfront the difference is huge. Think difference between a 1988 Oldsmobile and a 2012 BMW.

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with. I'm not sure the Greeks can afford that luxury these days.

Again, check your facts. In most markets QR is actually among the lowest priced carriers. Most of their markets are longhaul markets, so there is no competition from LCCs. There is some competition from LCCs in some of the regional markets in the Gulf region, and there indeed QR is relatively expensive


User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 24911 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 11):
Qatar Airways are good but they are also very expensive to fly with.

And there was me reading only in another thread on here that QR's fares are so cheap because the company has no need to turn a profit.  

I have to say, QR has, in my opinion, the most bang for your buck than any other airline, especially J class. In these tough economic times, I go where I feel I'm getting the best value for money.

How you can call them expensive is beyond me.

Rgds

[disclaimer: 19 long haul return trips with them, so might be accused of fanboyism]



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 24793 times:

Quoting mozart (Reply 14):
Qatar flies between Athens and New York only because it is interested in the Athens-New York market.

Well, yes and no. They are apparently also interested in DOH-ATH, and whatever NYC-DOH traffic they can get. I don't know the structure of the QR hub at DOH to know how valuable a mid-day arrival would be as opposed to the current 1835 local, but it would seem to give QR some scheduling flexibility given that JFK-ATH will almost certainly leave quite a bit before JFK-DOH leaves (2220 local).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 24534 times:

I am assuming that QR has 7th freedom rights for this route? How did that happen? Forgive my ignorance on this.

User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 737 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 24483 times:

Quoting JU068 (Reply 2):
By the way, can Athens even handle an A380? Last time I checked they couldn't.

DONE. Al Akbar just slapped it on his Amex  
Quoting swallow (Reply 7):
Similar routings are:

SQ: SIN-FRA-JFK, and

NZ: AUK-LAX-LHR

yeah but DOH-ATH is only 1800sm...

Quoting mozart (Reply 13):
SQ and NZ have to stop in FRA and LAX respectively because the planes need to make a technical stop.

Don't they have 5th freedom? I am pretty sure SQ does on the FRA-JFK segment as a friend had taken it in the past IIRC. Regardless, I agree that teh stopover may be a necessity (esp for the SIN-JFK route, as SIN-EWR is the longest commercial flight IIRC)


User currently offlineswallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 24009 times:

It seems to me that QR is taking advantage of the vacuum left by the demise of OA to offer flights to NYC.

AAB has seen a gap in the market and is going for it.

He must have somehow obtained the rights, or QR wouldn't be announcing these flights.

If you underestimate the power of Qatari $$$, just ask Cargolux. Unfortunately, they found out the hard way that AAB is not the easiest of investors to deal with



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offline3rdGen From Bahrain, joined Jul 2011, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 23785 times:

Middle East carriers flying Europe-North America might become a new phenomenon. The recession is taking a big hit on many European airlines. As these airlines start making cut backs on routes it leaves the door open for ME carriers. Might we see a few Gulf - North/South America via Spain?

The EU - US is an open-skies market if I'm correct, can any airline (i.e. non EU or US) fly and carry pax between two points in the EU and US


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2389 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 23574 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
But who would you rather fly, Delta, old aging 767 with so so service, or Qatar in a brand new 787 and superior service?

People always tend to gravitate towards what ever airfare is the cheapest, A/C type and appearance mean nothing to them. Back in the 1990's I've heard OA's 742s were old and tatty inside, same with TW, didn't stop anyone from flying them. Like everything else in the world it all boils down to the $$$$



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 23459 times:

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
Middle East carriers flying Europe-North America might become a new phenomenon.

Not completely new, KU is operating KWI-LHR-JFK for ages now and they also operated KWI-AMS-ORD until a few years ago, with full fifth freedom rights on both routes.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 23245 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 11):
Delta's flight attendants are union-protected, they'll get to you when they get to you, if they get to you

Uh, no they're not. NW's used to be, but when the merger went thru, they did a representation vote and the union lost.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinemitris From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 22980 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 21):
People always tend to gravitate towards what ever airfare is the cheapest, A/C type and appearance mean nothing to them. Back in the 1990's I've heard OA's 742s were old and tatty inside, same with TW, didn't stop anyone from flying them. Like everything else in the world it all boils down to the $$$$

Emmm.... Then Olympic introduced their brand new A340s, and after TWA stopped flying to ATH, Delta's 767s were fairly new as well.

As of now, DL will only be flying non-stop to JFK during the summer. Qatar, however, will be flying all year long with their brand new 787s and A380s. And yes, ATH can handle the super jumbo.

Finally, I would rather pay a little more (if that's the case), and fly with a better airline that offers better service, and brand new fleet like QR.

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:19:18]

[Edited 2012-11-28 10:22:04]

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 23365 times:

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 20):
The EU - US is an open-skies market if I'm correct, can any airline (i.e. non EU or US) fly and carry pax between two points in the EU and US

No. US and EU carriers can fly any route between the EU and the US. For fifth freedom rights, it is dependent upon the bilateral agreements between the US, EU state, and the carrier's home country.


25 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Sounds like Al shooting his mouth off again...but ok, let's pretend this is real and a good idea Negative...they're probably about the same, although
26 jfklganyc : Delta made the route seasonal. Imo they brought this on themselves. Exciting news
27 migair54 : We sometimes forgot that many people don´t know about in flight service, in flight entertainment and planes, but obviously after a few months of oper
28 gilesdavies : Does America and Europe have an open skies policy with the likes of Qatar and UAE to fly these sort of routes, which are not from their home countries
29 N62NA : JFK seems more likely because: 1) QR will be in OneWorld and EWR is not the OneWorld Airport, it's StarAlliance and 2) It is highly unlikely any airl
30 Atlflyer : If QR uses their 787s for ATH-JFK, will they have to block off seats for crew rest since QR doesn't have that option on their 787s?
31 Post contains images ASA : Isn't he?!! Alcohol or Ego ... that's another story!
32 RyanairGuru : In 2006 I predicted that EK might launch DXB-MAN-BOS with a 332. Clearly that never happened, and once EK cut HAM-JFK I figured that we would never s
33 3rdGen : OK I think you have to put these routes in context vs. the ATH-JFK route. If I'm not mistaken these routes were left over from the days when few plane
34 polaris : If this route is allowed under the bilateral/multilateral air agreements among these countries, then there is no question that this route is possible.
35 klwright69 : Well, this is a shocker. I mean honestly here, if UA is not serving ATH from EWR/IAD, and DL is only going from JFK seasonally, this market must be pr
36 redzeppelin : What factors are generally considered by US and EU regulators in the decision to grant 5th freedom rights, and how often are applications approved ver
37 MaverickM11 : I think the general downturn in the market brought it on DL, not the other way around. QR doesn't stand a chance in ATHNYC; maybe April Fools comes e
38 mhkansan : Where are QR's gates at JFK? Are they at T8 and or do they plan to relocate there? Can T8 handle the 380? I wonder if they would try any Spanish routi
39 ANITIX87 : QR tried DOH-GVA-EWR a few years back and it didn't last very long. My sister took the flight EWR-GVA-EWR and loved it but if the high-yield GVA-NYC m
40 3rdGen : No, I doubt that governments in the EU will be throwing 5th Freedom rights around like confetti but I think that Greece is a special case owing to th
41 SCQ83 : For Doha originating/connecting customers, they will target the more conscious-money passenger with the stop-over (willing to fly XXX-DOH-ATH-JFK), w
42 as739x : Lets me honest. Those routes fly thru Alliance hubs. Athens is by no means in the same ballpark with FRA or LAX. not have the financial benefits of t
43 Post contains images lewis : Weird news indeed. I cannot yet tell if this will fail or be successful. There is a lot of traffic between Greece and the US which is now being solely
44 AA94 : Just to put the argument to rest here a bit, I did a fare comparison on a JFK-SIN return on several airlines for 16JAN-21JAN. Here's how several carri
45 ER757 : QR will need to use their limited A380 fleet on high-traffic routes to/from their DOH hub. Only way I could see an A380 on this flight is if ATH were
46 United_fan : No word on Hellenic Imperial Airways? wikipedia says they suspended long haul waiting for thier A340-300's.
47 jfklganyc : Are you aware of the Greek population in NYC? This route went from being flown by Tower, TWA, Delta and Olympic to just DL and Olympic, to just DL an
48 MaverickM11 : And where are they all now? What's a reasonable NYCATH fare to you? Also mostly terrible, and they had a partner in SN.
49 Viscount724 : 5th freedom, not 7th freedom. They certainly have 5th freedom rights from the U.S. since U.S.-Qatar is an open skies market. I don't know anything ab
50 lewis : The way the Greek government has been trying to attract foreign investment from Qatar and other gulf states, I doubt this will be a problem for them.
51 lewis : If I am not mistaken, ATH-JFK was the most (and maybe the only) profitable long haul route for OA. Not sure since I fly to ATH from LAX where the far
52 OA260 : Great news for the Greek market and as stated plenty of well off Greeks who will pay for the premium cabins. It's been a long time coming for a produc
53 Post contains links Carmelo : They don't own the A340's any longer...I assume they are going into service with SkyGreece Airlines which are about to start flights to North America
54 SCQ83 : Just out of curiosity I checked JFK-ATH for February (granted it is low season) and there are quite a few combinations starting from $822 (with Turki
55 Viscount724 : That may seem logical but airline pricing doesn't work that way. It's based on demand and the nature of the market. You will very often find that tra
56 redzeppelin : Can we expect AA to code-share on this and provide connecting feed at JFK?
57 MaverickM11 : They also had a lot of feed on the ATH end, assuming it was indeed profitable which I'm not sure it was It'd have to probably be at least $600 each w
58 mhkansan : I'd hope this will come soon enough, especially with QR joining OW.
59 lewis : The only reasonable fares at the moment between US and Greece are on TK and those disappear pretty fast (at least from my experience out of LAX). The
60 Post contains images SXDFC : Look at my username, I am pretty sure I was aware of that! AFAIK the A340s came online in late 1999, early 2000 which is why I said the 90's. I shoul
61 SCQ83 : I know that airline pricing is not solely based on the distance (which is one factor), but $800-900 ai return for a transatlantic flight in February
62 spiritair97 : Not quite, tey are going to be in OW, so they will (hopefully, by then) have AA codeshares. The route has been an a333 for the last few years, but th
63 airbazar : Not exactly. Taking advantage of 5th freedom markets is a very significant component of SQ's business model. The JFK-SIN market is pretty small. So i
64 WROORD : I am surprised that EU would allow QR to serve Europe-US route. Anyways, ORD-ATH is still for grabs. Not sure why AA or UA never went after that marke
65 Tupolev160 : QR is expensive to fly with around the Gulf. However the further you fly with them, the more reasonable it gets. This might be the route-news of the y
66 3rdGen : I'll give you the word, two GF A340-300s were sent to a paint shop in Europe, painted in Hellenic Imperial colours and were then promptly flown strai
67 avek00 : It won't. Greece MAY prove to be an exceptional case because it lacks a home-country airline to sustain service to the USA, but that's about it -- th
68 JU068 : I am sure they would start cooperating with American Airlines even before their entry into oneworld (if necessary). Let us not forget that there are m
69 3rdGen : Are any of the greek airlines part of oneworld? Perhaps if they were to join and codeshare with QR, we may see QR flying a few more routes out of ATH.
70 dcann40 : I get the feeling that there had to be some cooperation with AA behind the scenes before this was announced, and perhaps discussion with other OW car
71 JU068 : Who knows, maybe even Royal Jordanian could time their own flights to the US once Qatar joins the alliance. So they would operate DOH-ATH-JFK-ATH-DOH
72 klwright69 : I disagree. In all my trips to the USA from the Gulf, and that's about 10, QR is never competitive. Emirates and Etihad are more competitive without
73 MaverickM11 : I don't think the GCC carriers would stand a chance outside of their niche, which is major flow hubs in the MIddle East. None of them will be making
74 Tupolev160 : Before disagreeing you should read better what is written and make use of some intuitive logic. I said that QR is expensive for any flights that take
75 airbazar : Why? The EU is a pretty liberal air market. There are other such examples and there have been even more in the past. SQ and AI are notorious for havi
76 mayor : You don't suppose that it was range restrictions at "the dawn of commerical aviation" that might have had something to do with it, do you?
77 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Less and less and less...mostly because it's terrible, and planes can now fly nonstop
78 laxathbrat : I think ATH-JFK is very lucrative market and QR will expand it to twice daily in the summer.
79 airbazar : Indeed, but that's doesn't rule out the fact that it has een done for many years and people shouldn't be shocked when the EU allows it to continue. T
80 Viscount724 : That was only part of it. Very few people wanted to (or could afford to) fly to points half way around the world in those days. They needed multiple
81 Viscount724 : SIN-U.S. is too far for economic nonstop operations, which is why they're dropping their all-J class A345 service SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX sometime next y
82 spiritair97 : Yes they are. Over the summer the ORD flights stopped at FRA, and the JFK flights stopped at CDG because of the strike. The EWR services were also su
83 mixalakhs : In my opinion the A380 can be use in high season and the B787 the low season.
84 kaneporta1 : Good luck to them but unless they manage to offer connection options beyond JFK and ATH I don't see this route lasting for more than a couple of years
85 mayor : Unless I'm mistaken, DL's JFK-ATH flight was daily until recently.
86 spiritair97 : No, you are correct. The flights were daily until this summer, when hey were lessend to 5x weekly I believe.
87 slcdeltarumd11 : Seems really outside the box but this might actually be a good opportunity. I think this is a smart route to try.
88 panamair : No, Delta has been operating JFK-ATH daily for many summers now, including the last one. In winter it usually went 4x-5x weekly. This is the first wi
89 alfa164 : You are right: DL has had daily to almost-daily - depending on the season - for many years. The "new" OA discontuied their own ATH-JFK flight and code
90 JU068 : Yes but it would not make sense for Olympic to approach Qatar while they are trying to convince the European Commission to allow Aegean to buy them.
91 dcann40 : I tend to agree. Had they done that, it might have doomed the merger/acquisition.
92 OA260 : Very true and this QR arrival actually helps their case. Some very interesting facts and figures going around on other forums. Seems QR did their hom
93 dcann40 : QR seems to have a high record of getting things right. I'm not surprised at what I've seen elsewhere!
94 OA412 : I'd be interested to read those forums. Do you mind mentioning them or sending me a PM with the info?[Edited 2012-12-01 18:44:51]
95 Byrdluvs747 : Why does the EU give the ME airlines rights to fly ex-Europe and doesn't the US have the right to refuse the route as well?
96 FI642 : Good for them. I flew OA JFK-ATJ-JFK packed each way. There is no excuse for non-stop ATH-JFK service. Yes there are Economic issues within Greece, bu
97 Humberside : Four things 1. It might not be the EU who allowed Qatar the rights here. Some bilaterals are still done by nation states where EU agreements have not
98 dcann40 : I suspect that fifth freedom has a lot to do with this and you cite very good examples. I also wonder if QR eventually has designs on becoming a glob
99 Post contains images TS-IOR : QR has now 5th freedom rights out of Tunis, and reading such a piece of news makes me wonder if QR will urge to start a route to north America, most p
100 Post contains links lightsaber : The more I think about this route, the more sense a 787 makes. Its not a 'thick route' and with EK already doing JFK-DXB, any competition with an adde
101 JU068 : So if they really do launch these flights, will that mean that they will be the first to operate a revenue flight between Europe and the U.S. on a B78
102 avek00 : To the contrary, 7th freedom rights are rarely granted under "open skies" Air Services Agreements as they often do not serve the economic interests o
103 avek00 : Nope, United -- the world's leading airline -- will have long beaten QR in that regard, as UA is set to launch various TATL 787 services in 2013.
104 avek00 : I agree with you, and ultimately, this is why I'm not terribly concerned about the flight - history does not smile kindly upon third country carriers
105 mayor : Working PR for UA, now?
106 Post contains links lightsaber : Please provide a link as that is contrary to what we've seen with many airlines once they have open skies. AI and EK come to mind. Opening any new ro
107 mayor : I wonder if there would be enough pressure from the Greek authorities (and this flight) for DL to run the flight for another half of the year, less t
108 FreshSide3 : That's really an enigma.....this should be a "no-brainer".....for a number of reasons......
109 dcann40 : and these reasons are?
110 LJ : First revenue TATL flight will be on December 11th (from Europe December 12th) for a one time only IAH-AMS, thus UA will beat QR. My bet is that DL w
111 airbazar : QR is joining OW. There will be plenty of connections at JFK from AA. Think about all the passengers that now travel via Europe to get to ATH. They w
112 avek00 : No, your assertion is what is contrary to what was actually taken place. Sure, carriers have leveraged fifth freedom rights under open skies, but 7th
113 FreshSide3 : Different kind of hub feed than New York, with smaller cities and co-terminals feeding it within their respective route systems. Many people that tra
114 FreshSide3 : Athens Airport is, incidentally, running the "winter incentive program" to have flights operate during the off-season, incidentally. It's kind of a c
115 airbazar : I don't think QR is at all interested in beyond ATH connections. This is entirely geared towards using AA's hub at JFK to capture a piece of the Gree
116 mayor : Nearby??? I don't believe STL is near enough to ORD to consider driving to Chicago to catch a flight to ATH as an alternate. About a 4-6 hour drive,
117 JU068 : If I remember correctly, Chicago was/is the number one unserved destination from Athens. Actually I completely forgot about LOT... which will start t
118 FreshSide3 : That's "relatively speaking", of course......ORD/STL are not exactly co-terminals, as you know. Some people will opt for ground transportation, to ge
119 JU068 : Well they are launching Warsaw-Chicago flights with their B787. I asked who will be the first airline to fly commercially their B787 across the Atlan
120 Viscount724 : Exactly the opposite. 7th freedom rights are extremely rare in Open Skies agreements, and where they do exist they are almost always restricted to al
121 Cubsrule : I lived in Saint Louis for a while, and I don't think I was aware of a single person who even thought of driving to Chicago to get a nonstop flight s
122 FreshSide3 : Actually, I have met a few.....but they've always been all large families/groups, not individuals or couples, for mid-summer travel.....as in German
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