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Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN  
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7332 times:

Ryanair has today announced it will cut it's Spanish traffic by 12%; biggest cuts will be in Madrid (35%) and Barcelona (23%). This will mean 4.5 million less pax which they claim will cause the loss of 4,500 jobs.

According to Ryanair, the Spanish government is doubling the airport taxes in MAD and BCN, and increasing them in the rest of the country.

The cuts will be:

MADRID (-35%):
• 4 less aircraft (from 14 to 10)
• 13 routes cancelled
• 22 routes with reduced frequency
• 272 flights less per week
• 1.9 million of pax lost (from 5.3m to 3.4m)
• 1,900 jobs lost

BARCELONA (-23%):
• 1 less aircraft (from 13 to 12)
• 4 routes cancelled
• 20 routes with reduced frequency
• 170 flights less per week
• 1.2 million of pax lost (from 5.4m to 4.2m)
• 1.200 jobs lost

SPAIN (total) (-12%):
• 648 flights less per week
• 4.5 million of pax lost (from 30m to 25.5m);
• 4.500 jobs lost


SUMMER CANCELLATIONS IN BARCELONA

1. Alicante
2. Hamburgo (Lubeck)
3. Munich
4. Trieste

SUMMER FREQ REDUCTIONS IN BARCELONA

1. Bilbao
2. Bruselas (Charleroi)
3. Budapest
4. Fuerteventura
5. Gran Canaria
6. Ibiza
7. Liverpool
8. Menorca
9. Málaga
10. Milán (Bérgamo)
11. Asturias
12. Palma
13. Oporto
14. Roma (Ciampino)
15. Santander
16. Santiago
17. Sevilla
18. Estocolmo (Skavsta)
19. Tenerife Sur
20. Venecia (Treviso)

SUMMER CANCELLATIONS IN MADRID

1. Almería
2. Ancona
3. Bari
4. Girona Barcelona
5. Eindhoven
6. Faro
7. Frankfurt (Hahn)
8. Génova
9. London Gatwick
10. Poznan
11. Estocolmo (Skavsta)
12. Turín
13. Verona

SUMMER FREQ REDUCTIONS IN MADRID

1. Alghero
2. Bilbao
3. Bolonia
4. Bruselas (Charleroi)
5. Budapest
6. Cagliari
7. Fuerteventura
8. Gran Canaria
9. Lanzarote
10. Marsella
11. Milán (Bérgamo)
12. Niederrhein
13. Oslo (Rygge)
14. Asturias
15. Palma
16. París
17. Pisa
18. Oporto
19. Roma
20. Santander
21. Santiago
22. Tenerife Sur


I think this is terrible news. Spain really needs this traffic and the jobs.

There will be a big market gap in Madrid. Is this an opportunity for easyJet to re-open the base in Madrid?

Edit: link: http://www.ryanair.com/es/novedades/...tasas-en-los-aeropuertos-espanoles It's on the news section of Ryanair.com/es but not on the UK/IE site.

[Edited 2012-11-28 14:12:56]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7314 times:

Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right? In the past we had Easyjet and Transavia as well. Clearly a sign of the weak Spanish economy.


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7219 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS

Isn't the cancellation of the Iberia service being replaced by Iberia Express?

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right?

Air Europa (UX) flies the route too, and it seems like they have 1 aircraft just for the twice daily AMS service:
07:35 → 10:05 MAD-AMS M T W T F S - Air Europa 1091
11:05 → 13:35 AMS-MAD M T W T F S S Air Europa 1098
14:35 → 17:05 MAD-AMS M T W T F S S Air Europa 1093
18:05 → 20:35 AMS-MAD M T W T F - S Air Europa 1094

[Edited 2012-11-28 14:29:06]

User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6922 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

KL, I2 and UX fly MAD-AMS. Transavia is starting MAD-EIN from S13. There is more in the world than FR.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6512 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
There is more in the world than FR.

Can we see any other carriers (easyJet, Vueling, etc.) expanding or opening bases in Madrid?

Anyone know what the load factors of Ryanair were in MAD and BCN?


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6364 times:

Airport charges in Spain are renowned to have increased a lot in recent times; in fact, they doubled in the past 2.5 years. Combined with routes that may be underperforming and with low yields (revenue per passenger per mile)that may not be offset through higher load factors...

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):


Can we see any other carriers (easyJet, Vueling, etc.) expanding or opening bases in Madrid?

EZY closed its MAD base. See, for example, this article: http://www.anna.aero/2012/06/22/why-...s-easyjet-closing-its-madrid-base/

I can't see EZY adding much, if anything, following this news.

[Edited 2012-11-29 01:41:23]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2650 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6332 times:

Most of those routes are already operated by other carriers, at least in BCN.


Summer Cancellations in Barcelona.

1. Alicante = VY
2. Hamburgo (Lubeck) = LH and GW direct to Hamburg (proper) as well as VY starting the route for the next summer season.
3. Munich = Direct to Munich (proper) with LH with many daily departures and also VY is starting the route.
4. Trieste[/quote] No other services except AZ but I dont think it´s such a lucrative or high yielding route.

Summer reductions in Barcelona.

1. Bilbao = VY to BIO and Helitt operates to Vitoria
2. Bruselas (Charleroi) = Direct service to BRU with VY and SN
3. Budapest = Wizzair
4. Fuerteventura = VY and maybe UX
5. Gran Canaria = VY and UX or IB via MAD
6. Ibiza = VY
7. Liverpool = None
8. Menorca = VY
9. Málaga = VY
10. Milán (Bérgamo) VY and U2 to MXP and AZ to LIN (awfully expensive though)
11. Asturias = VY
12. Palma = PMI? VY UX AB
13. Oporto = TP
14. Roma (Ciampino) VY AZ to FCO
15. Santander = VY
16. Santiago = VY
17. Sevilla = VY
18. Estocolmo (Skavsta) VY DY and SK to ARN
19. Tenerife Sur = VY goes to TCI (No idea which side is this lol)
20. Venecia (Treviso) = VY and AZ (AirOne) to VCE proper.
[/quote]

So, the routes are pretty much covered, yes we may lose the cheap fares but planes will be filled anyways and life will go on.

MIAspotter.

[Edited 2012-11-29 01:46:16]


I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6298 times:

I love how there is still this unfounded notion that a cut or the addition of one million pax will decrease or increase the amount of jobs by a thousand. This is just one model and it clearly does not always apply.
If it were the case, wouldn't you also have to deduct or add the same number of jobs at the destination airports...
Oh well. I guess FR scare tactics are still at work.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinemainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6206 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6):
7. Liverpool = None

Slight correction.....U2 to LPL, and LS and ZB to MAN.


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8430 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6196 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6169 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):

BARCELONA (-23%):
• 1 less aircraft (from 13 to 12)
• 1.200 jobs lost

If this calculation was true, Ryanair would be responsible for something like half a million jobs in Europe...

Sure.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2650 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 8):
Slight correction.....U2 to LPL, and LS and ZB to MAN.

Thanks, I did a quick check on U2´s website and didn´t see LPL, but now I see it.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 715 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right? In the past we had Easyjet and Transavia as well.

In Summer 2013 Transavia will operate:

- RTM-MAD-RTM - 4x week B737
- EIN-MAD-EIN - 4x week B737

UX operates MAD-AMS-MAD 2x/day with B737-800 in cooperation with KL, so SKYTEAM offers the route 7x/day.

Also, it would not surprise me if Vueling would re-introduce MAD-AMS-MAD - with IB codeshare - in the absence of proper IB services.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 9):
I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.

There won't be any job losses... or if there are any they will be offset by Vueling which is expanding from Barcelona next summer... FR? Good riddance I have to say!



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5969 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 7):
I love how there is still this unfounded notion that a cut or the addition of one million pax will decrease or increase the amount of jobs by a thousand.......Oh well. I guess FR scare tactics are still at work.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 9):
I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 10):
If this calculation was true, Ryanair would be responsible for something like half a million jobs in Europe...
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 13):
There won't be any job losses...

This is the standard FR line in public...that 1000 pax = 1 job in the region. They quote this ration in their press releases about new routes. this is the first time I have seen the same statistic used for closing routes.

So based on their 70M pax last year, FR indirectly employ 70,000 workers in the EU!!


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):
I think this is terrible news. Spain really needs this traffic and the jobs.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, MAD and BCN are great cities to visit and visitors will still want to go there despite Ryanair's news. They still have many other ways to get there.

This is usual FR hype!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):
Ryanair has today announced it will cut it's Spanish traffic by 12%; biggest cuts will be in Madrid (35%) and Barcelona (23%). This will mean 4.5 million less pax which they claim will cause the loss of 4,500 jobs.

Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.


User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

This is actually very good news for Air Europe, Iberia and Vueling. Ryanair can say that jobs will be lost, but it isn't the only airline at Madrid and if there is the demand then others will take over these routes. They don't just create jobs - they've also put people out of work by helping to drive other airlines out of business, and they employ proportionally less staff than other locally-based airlines. So what if tax has increased in Spain? So have Ryanair's baggage fees and credit card charges! What adds more to the price of a ticket?

User currently offlineuALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2654 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.

Well, last year BCN's passengers grew by almost 18% with respect to 2010. So far 2012 is also a record year, with growth about 3% even after the demise of JK. On the other hand, MAD"s passengers in 2011 were within 1% or those in 2010, while so far it looks like it may lose some ~7% of passengers in 2012. So a mixed bag, but nothing really dramatic.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):

Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.

You might think that but we have been in an economic crisis here in Ireland too and traffic levels are holding up very well.
This is despite FR cutting back on services with a goal to try and force overall passenger numbers using DUB to plummet, so then they can be seen to be the savior of the tourism industry.
This is all part of an ongoing PR campaign FR engage in with the media, government and Airport authority to try and get cheaper airport charges.
Well that last attempt backfired with other carriers filling the void left by FR.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 17):
This is actually very good news for Air Europe, Iberia and Vueling. Ryanair can say that jobs will be lost, but it isn't the only airline at Madrid and if there is the demand then others will take over these routes

I wonder what will happen to CRL/BRU-MAD as UX will start ops in this market as of Monday. It seems as if UX is still growing in Europe.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 19):

You might think that but we have been in an economic crisis here in Ireland too and traffic levels are holding up very well.

I don't think you can compare the situation in Ireland with the situation in Spain. The crisis in Spain is much worse and if you're working in the financial world you'll think that almost everyone is running out of Spain (which impacts business traffic). You only have to look at what happens in markets like MAD-AMS to see that the crisis has a very big impact (and there are more markets with similar problems).


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2134 times:

Not a huge deal. VY will happily take over the BCN routes that are viable. If IB sorts out its labor issues, IB Express will happily take over the MAD ones. UX may pick up a few too. The FR reductions and U2 leaving MAD are great news for those three airlines. As long as the routes are viable, and many are IMO, there are plenty of takers for them.

User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 20):

In the case of Spain, the Euro crisis in Western Europe certainly does not help either. Routes and passengers to Eastern Europe, Latin America, Asia or the Middle East are growing instead. Ireland has the advantage that relies more on (esp.) US and ME traffic, so they are probably doing better on that side. Also, I am sure that many of those routes were "overserved" during the economic boom... AMS was served by IB, KL, U2, UX and until recently, KE (in addition to flights to EIN and RTM with FR and HV). And the growth of the likes of EK or QR will mean less passengers connecting with KL to Asia.

Btw many people is "running in" Spain now... good infrastructure, a reasonable institutional frame and lower labor costs than other parts of Europe (for instance, Ford Motor Co. just announced they are closing their Ghent plant ... but they are expanding their factory in Valencia). Not to talk about the coming cheap R.E... But that's another topic...

Quoting r2rho (Reply 21):

I wouldn't rely very much on UX. They have been doing weird decisions for a while. For instance, they just started MAD-BIO and MAD-VLC to connect traffic to their hub in MAD, subcontracted to a newly created regional company which is already known for their cancellations and delays (http://helitt.com/). And despite the bankruptcy of JK earlier this year and the cancellations of IB, U2 and FR, they have managed to take over very few routes.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
I wouldn't rely very much on UX. They have been doing weird decisions for a while. [...] And despite the bankruptcy of JK earlier this year and the cancellations of IB, U2 and FR, they have managed to take over very few routes.

Yes, I am confused about UX's strategy (or lack thereof). I would have expected them to benefit from JK's bankruptcy and U2's MAD closure, plus now FR cuts. But it seems only VY has reaped the benefits.


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