Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
IB Unions Call For 6-day Strike On X-Mass Eve  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

In protest for the 4500 jobs to being cut, the unions are planning a 6 day long strike, only a few days before X-Mass

Good move... this certainly will help  

Link in Spanish for the moment

http://www.emol.com/noticias/economi...huelga-en-visperas-de-navidad.html


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

The strike is due to end on 21 December, so it won't be on Christmas Eve.

[Edited 2012-11-29 04:15:40]

User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 951 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

Great move. IAG has taken a hatchet to that company, and the workers should remind everyone how much pain they're having to endure. How much you want to bet IB will be a shell of its former self in 6-8 years?

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
Great move. IAG has taken a hatchet to that company,

Your basis for this assertion is?


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8493 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7728 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
IAG has taken a hatchet to that company, and the workers should remind everyone how much pain they're having to endure

- IAG are doing what they need to do to turn this carrier around. Yes there will be pain to start with but once turned around growth will start again.

The last thing the unions should be doing is alienating the airline customers, who do they think pay the bills, god?



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 951 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 4):
The last thing the unions should be doing is alienating the airline customers, who do they think pay the bills, god?

It doesn't matter. The workers should remind everyone of what is happening to them in world where they are likely to be without employment for months after they're terminated. Countries like Spain can't absorb 4,500 workers that easily.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7690 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 5):
Countries like Spain can't absorb 4,500 workers that easily.

and can Spain absord 18.000 jobs when the complete airline folds???



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 5):
It doesn't matter. The workers should remind everyone of what is happening to them in world where they are likely to be without employment for months after they're terminated. Countries like Spain can't absorb 4,500 workers that easily.

Nor can Iberia (which, like BA, has to stand on its own two feet in IAG) sustain the current rate of losses and cash burn.

It's a rather naive assumption that without job losses Iberia would just remain as it is.

Negotiations with the unions have only just started and to start with industrial action is reckless in the extreme. IAG management have been clear that industrial action will only make matters worse and when they say it will only accelerate the downsizing of Iberia they mean it.


User currently offlinerbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7600 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
How much you want to bet IB will be a shell of its former self in 6-8 years?

It will be a lot quicker than 6-8 years if they keep this up.

Seriously, what is the company supposed to do?


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7511 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 7):
Negotiations with the unions have only just started and to start with industrial action is reckless in the extreme. IAG management have been clear that industrial action will only make matters worse and when they say it will only accelerate the downsizing of Iberia they mean it.

I agree that taking this kind of extreme measures will not help anybody. Customers are taking note about this and probably changing their plans, flying any carrier but IB in the last weeks of December.
OTOH, after an announcement like the one IB did ( 4.500 jobs are not a piece of cake ), expecting a calm reaction from the unions will be naive to say the least...specially in the current scenario of the Spanish economy...

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):

A lot of people will fly the previous days; for instance students who are more time-flexible and money-savvy. Also IB carries a lot of passengers to Latin America and many of them are spending even weeks in their home country, so they are more flexible as well and they might fly some days earlier than the 22/23. Anyway the issue is that 22/23 planes will have very few seats available, so how do you place the passengers that were supposed the fly the previous days?

Let's see, I am flying the 22th on BA (LHR-MAD) on an AA-ticket, so I assume a lot of IB rebooked passengers in my flight!

[Edited 2012-11-29 06:32:02]

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7396 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 10):
A lot of people will fly the previous days; for instance students who are more time-flexible and money-savvy. Also IB carriers a lot of passengers to Latin America and many of them are spending even weeks in their home country, so they are more flexible as well and they might fly some days earlier than the 22/23. Anyway the issue is that 22/23 planes will have very few seats available, so how do you place the passengers that were supposed the fly the previous days?

That may be the case, but the thread title is still inaccurate! It implies a six day strike starting on Christmas Eve which is inaccurate.

[Edited 2012-11-29 06:23:41]

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 10):
planes will have very few seats available, so how do you place the passengers that were supposed the fly the previous days?

You hit the nail... my wife and I will flight the 22nd., many people tries to avoid the chaos of the 23/24.
And, like you said, if you have people stranded since the 17,18,19,20,21.... it is just a recipe for a big, big nightmare.
If this comes true, the public image of IB, already not very good, will be even worst.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 4):
The last thing the unions should be doing is alienating the airline customers, who do they think pay the bills, god?

If customers can't rely on in IB of course you start looking for alternatives. IB could fall into a death spiral - too many strikes = less costumers = less income = IB bankruptcy = No jobs.
Then we wouldn't talk of 4,500 jobs being cut, but the whole IB company. Look at how SK had to cut 15-20% of workers salary or the company would go bankrupt.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 10):
Also IB carries a lot of passengers to Latin America and many of them are spending even weeks in their home country, so they are more flexible as well and they might fly some days earlier than the 22/23.



IB can not only live on "flexible passengers" and low ticket fares in Y. IB is certainly not flexible for business/premium/loyal passengers traveling Europe - Latin America. This segment is also very important to IB. Also competition from Latin American carriers are hitting IB hard with a much better product, and competition from AF/KL and LH expanding in Latin America have diminished IBs competitive advantage in Latin America.


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7212 times:

more accurate 14, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 of December, so 5 days in a row just before the Xmas eve weekend that starts on 22nd, if they do they will create Chaos for the company and they will spoil many people holidays, people that will try to avoid IB like many of us do.

Planes on 22, 23 and 24 will be pretty full so no much possibility to rebook.

Seems like nobody in Spain can enjoy holidays without some collective making a strike.... Then they will ask themselves why they have to close routes and why people fly other airlines...


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
Then they will ask themselves why they have to close routes and why people fly other airlines...
Quoting troest (Reply 13):
IB could fall into a death spiral - too many strikes = less costumers = less income = IB bankruptcy = No jobs.

They don't learn !!!! Having a so recent example with the Uruguayan PLUNA...they insist in the same recipe.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinespantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Does somebody know if Vueling flights will be affected by IB strike? IIRC Vueling handling is done by IB. Thanks


A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2755 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7002 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 2):
Great move. IAG has taken a hatchet to that company, and the workers should remind everyone how much pain they're having to endure.

IAG hasn't taken a hatchet to the airline. The economy of Spain has been horrible. I can see being upset with your employer, but in a country with 25% unemployment they are pretty lucky to have jobs. I'm not saying bow down to the company, but it isn't like they are making hand over fist. They're hurting pretty bad and everyone suffers.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinen729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 10):
Anyway the issue is that 22/23 planes will have very few seats available, so how do you place the passengers that were supposed the fly the previous days?



One option might be to upgrade some of the flights to A340s or with BA's help 767/777s etc, then again it's the busiest time of year so probably not too many aircraft sat around.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you get to where you're going without too much extra hassle.


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Quoting spantax (Reply 16):
Does somebody know if Vueling flights will be affected by IB strike? IIRC Vueling handling is done by IB. Thanks

As far as I understand reading the article i guess they will affect all IB flight and any other flight that uses IB handling, because all the unions are joining.

"todos los centros de trabajo y actividades de la compañía" the strikes affects to all the workplaces and activities of the company.... so i guess, maintenance, cargo, handling, etc.....


User currently offlinespantax From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6872 times:

Thanks, migair54. I've wrote to Vueling and (in an stonishing 10 minutes) got an answer, which says that no, Vueling flights won't be affected. But, somehow, I doubt... If handling is not performed by IB personnel, who are they going to use instead?

"Gracias por contactar con VUELING. En respuesta a tu e-mail, te informo que todos nuestros vuelos operarán con normalidad. Nuestra operativa no se verá afectada por huelgas convocadas por otras compañías aéreas."

Regards,



A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
User currently offlineORD14R From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

So we'll be going through MAD on Dec 17 to SVQ. Arriving Iberia and departing Iberia Express. If this is company-wide then I guess MAD will be a disaster that day. Great. Time to call AA.

User currently offlineORD14R From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

By the way does anyone know if AA is handled by Iberia in MAD? I assume so. I wonder what the status of AA flights will be.

User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

Quoting rbgso (Reply 8):
Seriously, what is the company supposed to do?

Equally seriously, what are the employees supposed to do? I mean really, they plan on getting rid of roughly a quarter of the workforce. The ones remaining will have to face salary cuts between 25% and 30%. They HAVE TO do something of equal magnitude. First, because it would send a fatal sign to employers the world over if they didn't; second, because they know what they will face if they're among the ones that will be laid off. Because in Spain everyone knows near friends and relatives that have to survive without a job.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):
IAG hasn't taken a hatchet to the airline. The economy of Spain has been horrible. I can see being upset with your employer, but in a country with 25% unemployment they are pretty lucky to have jobs. I'm not saying bow down to the company, but it isn't like they are making hand over fist. They're hurting pretty bad and everyone suffers.

Again, what's the alternative?

It's interesting that it's ALL the unions that are represented in IB call for the strike, except pilots/Sepla who are prohibited to join by law as long as they are renegotiating their contracts. That doesn't happen too often.
Link in Spanish: http://www.expansion.com/2012/11/29/...mpresas/transporte/1354183818.html

The main problem for IB is their poor product, not the workforce! And since there is little money in Spain at the moment they need to improve their product ASAP and INVEST heavily into their long-haul segment to get a bigger slice of the Latin American Cake. Instead IAG is effectively dismantling them and allegedly stealing funds and infrastructure to nurture BA, again allegedly, but still...
They have all my support and the strike is 110% justified! The timing, well, ok, we can debate on that.

Btw, we better get used to it because in 2013 we are very likely to see industrial action at most European carriers.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 23):
Instead IAG is effectively dismantling them and allegedly stealing funds and infrastructure to nurture BA, again allegedly, but still...

Who told you that? BA had to go through rough times and is now able to generate profits... It is actually thanks to BA that the group is no deep in the red.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
25 gemuser : I can see the "Alan Joyce solution" being relevant here! Shut It Down until they agree to no more strikes! Worked wonderfully for QF. And Willy Walsh
26 Post contains links Gonzalo : For the "English Only" readers, a link from the WSJ. The strikes will continue along January 2013 according to this article...
27 Gonzalo : Sorry, the link removes itself, weird since is from the free zone of WSJ.com. And couldn't edit either, all I got is an error page. Anyway, just Goog
28 clydenairways : I say the opposite will happen. It will emerge a stronger and better airline in a few years. This needs to be done so it has sustainable future. WW d
29 jetblueguy22 : Well they could always, not strike.. But if there is no money in Spain where are they going to get the money to invest heavily into their fleet? The
30 SCQ83 : IB's current problems are not related per se to Spain's financial situation. Look at Vueling and how they have been adding capacity and planes in the
31 Post contains links Stratofish : I think we cannot expect them to just work as normal and pray "please don't let it be me this time!", can we? Money is hard to come by these days in
32 jetblueguy22 : Nobody wants to have to worry about losing their job. But striking and causing further financial harm is only going to make for larger job cuts. Than
33 Gonzalo : No. We can't. When you have family, a wife, kids... just thinking about being jobless in an adverse scenario like the one Spain has today, is just ho
34 Sketty222 : Too true, I remember the days of Rod Eddington, that's when the cost cutting began and WW came in to reinforce that. Thanks to WW BA is the airline i
35 Dano1977 : What's to stop IAG "Phoenixing" Iberia? Close Iberia down, liquidate the assets and start Iberia (2013) ltd. New contracts and new terms and condition
36 davs5032 : I'm honestly speechless that someone could view a situation so naively... If these cuts don't occur, then they'll REALLY send a clear message of how
37 BommerJan : Yay.... it means good bye Iberia... if this strike really takes place..... the employees just don't get it! It is time to work harder at the customer
38 r2rho : Please correct the misleading thread title. I agree. For once, IB employees have a very good reason to strike. Unfortunately, their numerous senseless
39 Gonzalo : Is not misleading. The Union is calling for a strike exactly in the days before the big majority of the people will initiate its travel for X-Mass Wh
40 uALWN : I fully agree on all counts. I try to avoid flying IB as much as I can, and I despise the sense of entitlement that many workers there seem to have,
41 raffik : Awful news- ofcourse it is the passengers who are left in the dark at the end of the day. If you are facing redundancy because the airline you are wor
42 Geo772 : The restructuring of Iberia is something that is desperately needed. A company haemorrhaging cash has to undergo a radical amount of change. While job
43 LHRFlyer : No they don't. IAG will not back down in the face of strike action. End of story. However, there is plenty of history at BA that IAG management will
44 LHRFlyer : The very simple and straightforward point posters are trying to make is your title implies that a six day starting on Christmas Eve, ergo a strike ru
45 bluesky73 : Iberia staff need to realise that the airline needs to become more efficient if it is to survive and thrive in future. It's not nice to go through red
46 Post contains links uALWN : You can find IB's results from 1996 on in this page: http://www.es.iairgroup.com/phoenix....html?c=240950&p=irol-reportsannual Profit (loss) afte
47 LHRFlyer : And the losses came before the merger with BA (January 2011). So the claim by some that Iberia had a unbroken record of profitability before BA set o
48 summa767 : You should really be looking at the operational profit/loss, and not the net, as they cave such things as sales of assets, provisions, currency adjus
49 uALWN : The merger was announced in 2009 and the agreement was signed in 2010. In any case, IB also booked a profit in 2010 (+89 M€). So in the 15 tears be
50 uALWN : Followed by a nice rebound in 2010 (+89 M€ profit).[Edited 2012-11-30 05:32:07]
51 LHRFlyer : The merger completed in January 2011. That's when IAG was formed. Don't think anyone is really asserting that.
52 Post contains links troest : I got this letter from IB ( in Spanish only) stating why they have to do restructuring in the company. Also did they mention the false claim about IBs
53 IndianicWorld : Exactly. The logic and subsequent actions used by unions at times is bordering on crazy. Sometimes drastic actions are needed, and in aviation those
54 Post contains links summa767 : Yes, and? Spanish GDP was also positive in 2010, a rebound from the year before. But look at it now! It is also available in English: http://www.iber
55 caribillo : Main issue here is the unions representatives that are suppose to negociate with the Company are the ones would lose their jobs (over 50 years old). S
56 troest : Thanks summa767
57 peterinlisbon : I think that the unions should consider that given the choice between "doing nothing" and "doing something" that will make the situation even worse, i
58 UALWN : Uh? Actually, Spain's GDP shrunk slightly in 2010 and grew slightly in 2011. In both cases below 1%. We'll see the final 2012 numbers.
59 Gonzalo : Very clear. It will be nice to know an answer from the unions about the content of this letter. I'm fully aware about the astronomical differences be
60 r2rho : I agree that IB must lower its labor costs and that some layoffs are inevitable, but expecting workers to simply accept everything and shut up for som
61 Post contains links r2rho : update: the strike has been called off unilaterally, although no agreement has been reached between unions and management. Possibly due to the wrong m
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
F/A's Call For A Nationwide Strike posted Tue Nov 16 2004 16:46:41 by Rumorboy
Unions Call For US Airways' Siegel To Resign posted Wed Dec 17 2003 01:05:49 by Aa757first
AA & AE Pilot Unions Call For Single Carrier posted Tue Apr 2 2002 05:59:53 by Av8trxx
Ironic: Airlines Call For Curb On Oil Speculation posted Mon Jun 16 2008 18:11:44 by Enilria
Reg. Of AA 737-800 For Flt. 75 On Christmas Day posted Thu Dec 28 2006 12:59:44 by N949WP
NW Mechanics Authorize Call For Strike posted Tue Jul 19 2005 22:10:21 by DAYflyer
Major Delays For Independence Air On Day 1! posted Thu Jun 17 2004 01:30:58 by ACAfan
Flights On Christmas Eve /christmas Day posted Wed Dec 24 2003 17:08:53 by Flairport
Night Flights On Xmas Eve/Early Hours Of Xmas Day posted Mon Dec 15 2003 21:04:10 by Gilesdavies
QF Maintenance @ MEL Go On 2-Day Strike! posted Tue Nov 20 2001 00:14:28 by Singapore_Air