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AA 777-300ER, Minus Vertical Stab?  
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 513 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 27905 times:

What is the reason behind this? I have never heard of or seen pictures of a plane being on the flight line in such an unfinished condition like this ( and the 787 doesn't count).

I'm assuming that there had to be some sort of issue with the vertical. Does anyone know if it was found prior to or after assembly?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/8231546866/in/photostream

[Edited 2012-11-29 19:34:35]


Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27683 times:

They took it out for a wash  

Have no clue!


User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27521 times:
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OR.................... maybe they're going to use it to unveil the new AA corporate logo!

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27524 times:

They need to take it off to apply their fancy new livery??

Seriously though, I have to agree, this is not a common sight.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27470 times:

I've seen DC-8's in the same situation on the production line


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27438 times:

Quoting FI642 (Reply 4):

But this is on the flight line.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27450 times:

might be for the special livery. That means the body might just be a solid color and the vertical have the slick design  

User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27074 times:

Is this 717AN or 718AN?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27017 times:

^ 718AN.

Something tells me they want to apply some special coat but are holding back.



A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B738 B744 B763 B772 B77W B787 Q400 E190
User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 26926 times:

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 8):

Something tells me they want to apply some special coat but are holding back.


Agreed. There was article out this morning from local Dallas news station confirming new livery but saying that AA refuses to say when or how it will be revealed. My guess is they planned on doing it already but w/ the pilot contract out for vote they want to make double sure the labor issues have settled down first, i.e. last thing they need is to unveil new livery/logo/77W roll out along w/ commercials and such w/ backdrop of another major slowdown and media circus.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 24318 times:

Or maybe it is a conspiracy, they are going to paint it like every other AA aircraft and end all the speculation about a new livery. Just saying.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinebaldwin471 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 24061 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 10):

I can't fathom how ghastly the 77W would look in the Current AA livery. Maybe as bad as their 772's.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4704 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 23970 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 9):
My guess is they planned on doing it already but w/ the pilot contract out for vote they want to make double sure the labor issues have settled down first

I think it has more to do with the delay in 77W deliveries, although I see you point about avoiding a labor showdown after the "birth of the new American", or however they spin it.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 10):
Or maybe it is a conspiracy, they are going to paint it like every other AA aircraft and end all the speculation about a new livery. Just saying.

So they went and wasted a massive amount of money painting a 77W white and grey just to entertain ANetters?  
Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 11):
I can't fathom how ghastly the 77W would look in the Current AA livery. Maybe as bad as their 772's.

I agree, but it'll be much worse because there is so much more empty metal.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9568 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 23638 times:

I join the ones who say that it is strange that the vertical stabilizer is taken off completely on the flight line. Even if they wanted to keep the new tail logo a secret, it shouldn't have been necessary to take the vertical stabilizer completely off like this.

In the mean time we are all awaiting the new livery AA will be introducing   

A388


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22725 times:

This strikes me as being a quite drastic move just to hide the new logo, why not leave it on and paint it all white instead.
After all, the rest of the aircraft still has teo be painted.
So what's happening to AA 77W's on the FAL in production now ? Presumably the third one is there or thereabouts by now. Is it being built without the vertical stab ?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22284 times:
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Isn't 717AN still out on the flight line with no logo on her vertical stabilizer?

Plus 718AN hasn't even had her fuselage painted, so why would Boeing slap the logo on her tail? And even if they had for some reason, easy enough to cover it up in the paint hangar before they rolled it out.

The only way this makes sense to me as a logo-related issue is if they're painting the vertical stabilizer separately, but if that was the case you think they would have pulled it off of 717AN, as well.

So I'm guessing there was an issue with the tail that requires fixing. Maybe they banged it into something and damaged it?


User currently offlinerOw44SeAtK From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21848 times:

It's the newest in liveries - "See-through Tails"


Somebody has to sit on that seat.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21538 times:

How did they remove the tail? Did they do it outside, or move it into the factory and use a crane? I thought that balance of the tail is so critical that manufacturers must handle it very carefully. Yanking it off outside doesn't seem to fall within the handling protocol if that is the case.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21309 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
How did they remove the tail? Did they do it outside, or move it into the factory and use a crane?

They would have had to use a crane, whether it was inside or outside. Given that the factory has overhead cranes everywhere, it would seem very likely that this was done inside.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
I thought that balance of the tail is so critical that manufacturers must handle it very carefully.

That's true, although it's really only the rudder that has a major balance concern.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
Yanking it off outside doesn't seem to fall within the handling protocol if that is the case.

Even if done outside, nobody is "yanking" anything. If you ding it, you've got to repair it regardless of the balance. So you don't ding it.

Tom.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21101 times:

My guess would be a production holdup, or possible damage.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLostSound From Canada, joined May 2012, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20947 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 20):
My guess would be a production holdup, or possible damage.

Agreed. Traditionally, when an airline is introducing a new design that is not ready for reveal, they "tape" white sheets over the design to hide the painted artwork. We saw this with many carriers including JetBlue, a couple years back now when they introduced the blueberry tail design and new upsized logo.

The removal or non-attachment of the the vertical stab. is too extreme of a move to be related to the new livery in my opinion. There are much less dramatic, and cheaper, options to hiding the colours.



"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
User currently offlineYchocky From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20664 times:

Any precedent for this occurring on any other programs?

Maybe?



User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1010 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20557 times:

Actually it is none of the speculation listed above. This aircraft is testing a new 777X feature which does not have a vertical stabilizer (saving a ton of weight) but instead uses fly-by-wire controlled split ailerons and differential computer controlled thrust asymmetry to achieve directional control resulting in significant fuel savings. If thrust control plus split-ailerons doesn't result in satisfactory yaw control, they will also use a control vane in the APU exhaust to supplement the authority.

User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 396 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20495 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
How did they remove the tail? Did they do it outside, or move it into the factory and use a crane? I thought that balance of the tail is so critical that manufacturers must handle it very carefully. Yanking it off outside doesn't seem to fall within the handling protocol if that is the case.

Vertical fins, are hinged and are folded to one side before they are removed. This can be done outside or inside with the use of cranes.

As Stitch said, there probably was some damage as this is usually the only reason you ever remove a vertical fin. The Rudder is the only thing that gets removed for new livery applications (most of the time), due to the need to "balance" it after the new paints are applied.

135Mech


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3173 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20319 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 20):
My guess would be a production holdup, or possible damage

Since the aircraft had its tail on when it was flying last week it can't be the first one...


User currently offlinepwdalmech From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20163 times:

With AA 77W production delayed, this vertical stabilizer was probably swapped to another aircraft in final assembly.


Pure Power
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20331 times:

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 11):
I can't fathom how ghastly the 77W would look in the Current AA livery. Maybe as bad as their 772's.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
I agree, but it'll be much worse because there is so much more empty metal


Yes, and LH, AF and Swiss are so much better, not having any thing but a billboard style name on a blank white surface. Give me a break...  



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3212 posts, RR: 26
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20224 times:
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Quoting 135mech (Reply 24):
Vertical fins, are hinged and are folded to one side before they are removed.

I believe they stopped doing that with the 707.. originally it was to allow the plane into low clearance hangers.

As I recall all vertical fins are installed vertically and attached with pins laterally not fore and aft.

I seem to recall that the paint delay is due to a seat problem so no new paint until mid January.

[Edited 2012-11-30 09:05:06]

User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20100 times:

Quoting pwdalmech (Reply 26):

I think this is the most plausible. Why have inventory sitting around when you can put it in another plane that will be delivered soon ?


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19896 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 25):

It can, just like the engines, they may belong to another airframe.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineiad787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 501 posts, RR: 44
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18806 times:

Okay, this made me laugh.

Quoting Navion (Reply 23):
This aircraft is testing a new 777X feature which does not have a vertical stabilizer (saving a ton of weight) but instead uses fly-by-wire controlled split ailerons and differential computer controlled thrust asymmetry to achieve directional control resulting in significant fuel savings. If thrust control plus split-ailerons doesn't result in satisfactory yaw control, they will also use a control vane in the APU exhaust to supplement the authority.

But I can say definitively it has absolutely nothing to do with the new colors.



Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
User currently offlinedtw757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1528 posts, RR: 3
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18832 times:

I think the delay which is due to "seat issues" is smoke and mirrors. I think Q1 2013 you will see AA emerge from bankruptcy with a completely new rebranding top to bottom. You will not see the new branding until the day they emerge however. Carefully timed with the delivery of the 777-300. They aren't ready yet to emerge so they aren't ready to paint the 77W. It would be hard to keep that secret once it's completely painted. I think this white you're seeing on the gray plane is also a mule much the way they disguise new cars before they are released. In the end the tail will not be white but perhaps all blue. Just my   


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlinebaldwin471 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18350 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 27):
Yes, and LH, AF and Swiss are so much better, not having any thing but a billboard style name on a blank white surface. Give me a break...  

I never said that was better. Although in those cases yes they do look better than shiny tacky metal. Look at TG or EY and their liveries, no-one is saying you either have to have euro-white or tacky metal. AA's looks horrible. Look at AM if you want to see polished metal done correctly.


User currently offlinestrandedinbgm From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 349 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 17947 times:

It's there. It's painted in AA's new invisible livery.


It's 737s, 747s and 380s. Not 737's, 747's and 380's. Learn to use the apostrophe for crying out loud.
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 17651 times:

Quoting strandedinbgm (Reply 34):
It's there. It's painted in AA's new invisible livery.
Quoting iad787 (Reply 31):
Okay, this made me laugh.

Quoting Navion (Reply 23):
This aircraft is testing a new 777X feature which does not have a vertical stabilizer (saving a ton of weight) but instead uses fly-by-wire controlled split ailerons and differential computer controlled thrust asymmetry to achieve directional control resulting in significant fuel savings. If thrust control plus split-ailerons doesn't result in satisfactory yaw control, they will also use a control vane in the APU exhaust to supplement the authority.


They have the technology but have never put into use. WONDER WOMAN'S AIRPLANE!



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineKempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15823 times:

Waiting for a polished metal stab perhaps? Can't remove paint if the new logos are on AA polished metal background. Possibly getting a new stab that is polished with only the logo painted.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15203 times:
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Quoting Kempa (Reply 35):
Waiting for a polished metal stab perhaps?

The 777 vertical stabilizer is CFRP, not Al, so it can't be polished.

718AN flew on 16 November with an unpainted vertical stabilizer (I can't tell if the rudder is white or grey in the ambient light).


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15033 times:

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 11):
I can't fathom how ghastly the 77W would look in the Current AA livery. Maybe as bad as their 772's.

Having spent a lot of time on AA, as well as sitting at ORD, I love the look of the 772 in the bare metal finish.

Considering the number of planes that are all white or mostly white, including UA, US, and DL, the bare metal finish can't be mistaken, especially on a sunny day.

If you think AA's bare metal is ghastly, what do think of the old Hughes Air West scheme, bright yellow with purple trim. That was ghastly, especially if they hadn't been washed for some time.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14921 times:
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Quoting ckfred (Reply 37):
If (one) think(s) AA's bare metal is ghastly, what do(es one) think of the old Hughes Air West scheme, bright yellow with purple trim?

Have to say I was a fan.


But I was also like 7 when I saw them at BUR.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14837 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 27):
Quoting 135mech (Reply 24):
Vertical fins, are hinged and are folded to one side before they are removed.

I believe they stopped doing that with the 707.. originally it was to allow the plane into low clearance hangers.

As I recall all vertical fins are installed vertically and attached with pins laterally not fore and aft.

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser tail could be folded to fit low hangars. I've never heard of any jets with that capability.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k593/pilot852/hangar.jpg


User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13476 times:

Please do not tell me that AA cannot afford to buy the tails for their new 77Ws...     

User currently offlinerc135x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11758 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):
The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser tail could be folded to fit low hangars. I've never heard of any jets with that capability.

I believe both the B-52 and the KC-135 had this capability. Photos of early B-52 roll out show the folded tail. This capability saw little (if any) use in routine operations.


User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

The vertical stabilizer on the KC-135 can be folded down, but it's a major production to do it so there has to be a good reason for it, IE serious maintenance, damage, or..... dropping a wrench down the stabilizer while changing a rudder compensator, perhaps....... .. not that I'd know about that, of course.....

User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10959 times:
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Quoting Navion (Reply 22):
Actually it is none of the speculation listed above. This aircraft is testing a new 777X feature which does not have a vertical stabilizer (saving a ton of weight) but instead uses fly-by-wire controlled split ailerons and differential computer controlled thrust asymmetry to achieve directional control resulting in significant fuel savings. If thrust control plus split-ailerons doesn't result in satisfactory yaw control, they will also use a control vane in the APU exhaust to supplement the authority.

I don't believe a word of this. No airplane can fly without a vertical stabilizer. It's a matter of simple physics. Every airplane from the Wright Flyer all the way to the present has had some form of a vertical stabilizer.


User currently offlineetoile From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
Every airplane from the Wright Flyer all the way to the present has had some form of a vertical stabilizer.

The B-2 doesn't, but Navion is jk anyway.

[Edited 2012-11-30 16:19:25]

User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3651 posts, RR: 12
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10044 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
I don't believe a word of this. No airplane can fly without a vertical stabilizer. It's a matter of simple physics. Every airplane from the Wright Flyer all the way to the present has had some form of a vertical stabilizer.

The B-2 Stealth doesn't have a vertical stabilizer, like etoile said.

But, with all due respect to Navion, I think that he was just kidding in what he was saying. Of course this 777 won't fly like that. As other have said, it was taken away by cranes to fix an issue, before continuing building the airplane. I think that the reason the airplane is not kept inside the hangar in Paine Field is not to block the production line.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9185 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
I don't believe a word of this. No airplane can fly without a vertical stabilizer. It's a matter of simple physics.

Really?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/B-2_Spirit_original.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Dark_Star_USAF.jpg
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Chino2004/Sampler/N9mbFlyingWing.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/X-31_Quasi-Tailless_over_Edwards_AFB.jpg


User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9068 times:

Yes, Navion was trying to be funny. The nuances of humor can be difficult to convey through the printed word.

Speaking of aircraft with no vertical tail, check this out..

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/tailless-bomber-trail


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8952 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
I don't believe a word of this.

Oh dear... Whoosh parrot anyone?


User currently offlineamccann From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8405 times:

For curiosity sake and somewhat unrelated;

Was the X31 ever actually flown without the vertical stabilizer? It appears the photo above is an edited photo. I thought the X31 performed "quasi tailless flight test," utilizing intentionally destabilizing control inputs in roll and yaw and then controlled the destabilizing inputs via three dimensional thrust vectoring.



What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7892 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Thread starter):
What is the reason behind this? I have never heard of or seen pictures of a plane being on the flight line in such an unfinished condition like this ( and the 787 doesn't count).

I'm assuming that there had to be some sort of issue with the vertical. Does anyone know if it was found prior to or after assembly?

Interesting little bit of useless information that airplane in the picture has the APU running. Funny since the vertical isn;t in the way you can see the APU door extended in the picture. Like I said useless info.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1010 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
I don't believe a word of this. No airplane can fly without a vertical stabilizer. It's a matter of simple physics. Every airplane from the Wright Flyer all the way to the present has had some form of a vertical stabilizer.

You guys are right in noting that I was joking however there is a germ of reality in my comment. I just got done reading astronaut John Youngs new book "Forever Young" and he discusses in detail the desire to remove the vertical tails from the Space Shuttle which would have saved almost a ton and a half of weight, an enormous benefit given the high cost per pound to go into space. The money wasn't there to fund this intiative but the technology was available using split ailerons and tail Reaction Control System rockets for yaw control. The technology is now there and this is doable.

Boeings "Blended Wing Body" design has just such a tailless feature and for good reason. You save tons of weight and drag (not to mention lowering maintenance costs on all of the parts and systems in such a large aircaft component). Technology is now reaching the point that we could see such designs in practical use possibly sooner than we think. It would be an enormously efficient move.

But back to the original point, yes, I was kidding.


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 46):

To add... some planes that came well before the ones you showed

The Yb-35 which started out in 1941...
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/McMahan/9259L.jpg

The Horten 229 from WWII


The proposed, but not built due to the war ending, Horten H.XVIII also from late WWII
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Horten_H_XVIII.jpg

It should be said also that the Germans had many tail less wing designs towards the end of the war in various design phases.


But back to this 777... So nobody has any insider info?  



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1034 posts, RR: 7
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

So Stanley Kubrick was right!

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&s...&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0,i:126


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 396 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6409 times:
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Quoting rc135x (Reply 41):
I believe both the B-52 and the KC-135 had this capability. Photos of early B-52 roll out show the folded tail. This capability saw little (if any) use in routine operations.

Yes, they were designed to be able to do that if needed, and then the AF built bigger/taller hangars (or tail out Docks) and did not utilize that much, as KC135Hydraulics said... it's a maintenance nightmare to do the task.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
I don't believe a word of this. No airplane can fly without a vertical stabilizer. It's a matter of simple physics. Every airplane from the Wright Flyer all the way to the present has had some form of a vertical stabilizer.

That was a joke...

Regards,
135Mech


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

Quoting FI642 (Reply 4):
I've seen DC-8's in the same situation on the production line

DC-10's and MD-11's did not have their vertical stabs attached until after leaving the paint hangar.


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

Anybody know the status of this bird? Is it still missing the vertical?


Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineetoile From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 56):
Anybody know the status of this bird? Is it still missing the vertical?

Flew to DFW today without a vertical stabilizer. Barely made it.


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Quoting etoile (Reply 57):

Above, they said this bird was 718, 717 was the plane delivered today.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
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