TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15954 times:
Happy 6th anniversary to our "Turkish Aviation" threads!
Thank you everyone for making these threads informative, fun and free of political or personal attacks over the years.
I know we talk a lot about TK, but there is always exciting news about TK. But here I start with Pegasus;
-Pegasus order appearantly a done deal, probably an announcement will be made for 70+30 aircraft, A320NEOs.
-TK order of 15+5 77Ws, could very well be already decided at 20.
-TK 333s starting to arrive next year. ( 2 frames)
-TK to order 100 narrow bodies soon. Split??
-New Istanbul airports first phase might not be ready till after 2016.
-AC to start IST 3 x weekly with 763s, and AC and TK to codeshare.
-Hamdi Topcu of TK said TK would fly to 35 destinations in Africa by the end of the year back in January. Fack check; he is pretty close.
-TK to open 33 new routes in 2013; and here is a wish list from TK (thanks to Leftyboarder) please correct if wrong!
Abha
Abuja
Al-Qassim
Asmara
Aswan
Atlanta
Boston
Buenos Aires
Caracas
Colombo
Constanta
Douala
Esfahan
Havana
Houston
Kano
Kermanshah
Kharkiv
Kilimanjaro
Krakow
Libreville
Luanda
Luxembourg
Luxor
Malta
Manila
Marseille
Mexico City
Mombasa
Montreal
Niamey
Ouagadougou
Salzburg
San Francisco
Santiago de Compostela
Tallinn
Vilnius
Yaunde
Please take it from here and welcome everyone!
TK787
Quote: Turkish Airlines starting 21MAY13 will launch Istanbul Ataturk – Santiago de Compostela service, on board Airbus A319 aircraft. Service operates 3 times a week.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, RR: 37 Reply 2, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15917 times:
Congratulations on six terrific years; it's always been interesting to read the Turkish threads, and great to see how fast TK is expanding (and that DUB is part of that network!).
Looks like 2013 is going to be another exciting year for TK, with lots of new destinations - looks like it will be more than EK, EY and QR put together - and good to see that the airline is solidly in profit.
Just two questions I have, in relation to the airline's fleet choices. The airline's recent WB order has been split pretty much fifty/fifty - in numbers, if not necessarily in dollar value. I think we all expect a split between the Neo and the Max for the new WB order, but to what extent does government "guidance" come in here? Is TK still required/"encouraged" to split orders between Boeing and Airbus? I ask this principally because compared to a few years ago, Turkey's geopolitical importance has increased very much; ok, it was always important, but with the collapse of the Syrian regime (imminent), the isolation of Iran and the confusion over Egypt's direction, Turkey is pretty much the regional powerhouse ... why does Turkey still need to please both the US and Europe when it comes to aircraft orders?
The second question is: with TK building its widebody fleet for the next few years on the 77W and A330, does it not risk falling behind regional competitors who have ordered the A350 and 787; I realise that the question of a possible 787/A350 order has been discussed here at length, but does the recent A330/777 order mean that the "next generation" order has fallen down the priority list?
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15906 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2): why does Turkey still need to please both the US and Europe when it comes to aircraft orders?
My humble opinion, it is a matter of getting better pricing and better delivery dates.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2): but does the recent A330/777 order mean that the "next generation" order has fallen down the priority list?
TK said 787 is too small for them. We will see a 350 order in the future, I think.
Reminder, TK to go from 36 WB aircraft this year to 69 WB aircraft in the next 5 years.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15877 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1): A Coruña (LCG) has been discarded and switched to Santiago de Compostela (SCQ). Time schedules are already official and tickets for sale:
Thanks, made changes above.
Quoting LCYFlyer (Reply 4): What surprises me is the (planned) addition to Havana. What will the frequency be? Is there even a demand for that route?
This is just a wish list. Last months thread there were talks about joining HVN with MEX. Who knows? I was talking to friends in Istanbul. Lots of Havana vacationers amongst them.
This could be seasonal and 2-3 x weekly at best I imagine, if ever.
We had a bet??? Still yet to be determined
I would like to remind you, I have a very close friend who is a member, but likes to keep it quiet; "TK350", joined a.net Nov 2007
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15782 times:
In last month thread pilotaydin highlighted the importance of the 330 family in TKs fleet. I can only acknowledge that. The two passenger versions as well as the freighter are the real backbone of the longhaul fleet; in my oppinion even more suitable than the 77W. This will get even better when Airbus is able to realise the 242t MTOW version of the 333. Far-East, Africa and the most important parts of Northamerica can be operated very easily and more important economically. As far as I remember they have 15 on order?!?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15730 times:
Happy December. Hopefully those in colder climates stay warm.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2): but to what extent does government "guidance" come in here? Is TK still required/"encouraged" to split orders between Boeing and Airbus?
The Turkish state still owns 49% of the airline, it appoints both the CEO and Chairman, and various ministries have their fingers in the airline as well.
I can go into deeper details, but ultimately such major fleeting decisions are not made without blessing of parties in Ankara.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 12): Wasn't there talk about Pegasus opening a base at Tymvou in northern Cyprus?
A bit back Pegasus was asked by the Turkish Cypriot government about looking into setting up something now that Cyprus Turkish Airlines is long gone. Who knows what will come of this.
Atlasjet similarly looked at such a venture after CTA shutdown, but opted against it.
Btw - the name is Ercan airport located in Lefkosa.
Speaking of Pegasus, I understand they are in talks about possibly buying into, or taking over MyTechnic at SAW.
With a growing fleet, Pegasus wants a hangar and maintenance base, and buying into MyTechnic might be quicker and cheaper than developing the infrastructure organically.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15688 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): Btw - the name is Ercan airport located in Lefkosa.
Actually the airport is located in the village of Tymvou, but the airport is also referred to it by that name. From Wikipedia : ' Location Tymvou, Cyprus' . Funnily enough, even flight radar 24 uses Tymvou and not Ercan for flights departing from the north.
Lefkosa is the Turkish name for the city. In English it is Nicosia.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15687 times:
And not to get into politics, but since the airport is in Turkish side of Cyprus it has a Turkish name.
As they say, when in Rome....
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15625 times:
A quick summary of the situation in Izmir following the comment of LAXintl in the previous thread ("As I recall the the commercial airport at Izmir prior to ADB opening was Cigli"):
Cumaovasi (IZM) was the main airport of Izmir, but became too small to serve Izmir. So all commercial flights were moved to Cigli Air Base (IGL). For a very short period, the commercial flights were shifted from IGL to IZM (1974-1975) and back to IGL (not later than 1977). IZM got demolished and the current Adnan Menderes Airport (ADB) was built instead. I can't really say where IZM was located, but it should be somewhere near or at the current location of ADB.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): A bit back Pegasus was asked by the Turkish Cypriot government about looking into setting up something now that Cyprus Turkish Airlines is long gone. Who knows what will come of this.
What happened to the "North Cyprus Airlines" project?
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
Yes, but we do not speak Turkish on this website but English, hence why it makes little sense to use any name other than Nicosia.
Quoting TK1244 (Reply 14): What happened to the "North Cyprus Airlines" project?
I think after they were left with no other choice but to close down KTHY, they realized that they do not have the necessary funds to run an airline. On top of it all, the fact that it could not fly directly to any airport beyond Turkey made it even more difficult, especially after increased competition from mainland Turkey.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15217 times:
How about Sochi? Many Russians like to go to Turkey for holiday. Also, there is practically nothing that doesn't involve Moscow, that connects North America to Sochi. It would certainly be a natural for TK to do.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14932 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 17): TK already flies to Sochi.
Thanks for pointing this out......had to look again. The midnight departure from IST prevents people from pulling it up as a "connection" from the JFK flight. The flights from the states either miss it by a few hours, or there is an extremely long layover. Plus it is non-daily, too. Which is why I had troubles pulling it up in the schedules.
But it is welcome, without question. Hopefully, TK will increase the frequency, in the future, especially with the Olympics coming up in 2014.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14838 times:
And two more destinations from the wish list become real: TK begins Esfahan and Kermnshah; both 2 weekly. Reported by airlineroute.net. Can't paste details as I am posting on my phone...
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14697 times:
Airblue plan to resume Istanbul but no date given, the A340 that tech stopped at Ankara was due to crew rest issue according to the airlines unofficial facebook page.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14676 times:
Hello all,
Last month in another thread there was a brief discussion about how some airline network routes can have very high reliance on transfer traffic for their existence.
Following this thread, I was asked my a member if I could share information and provide a bigger network picture for TK to display how routes can be interdependent.
Accordingly here is a long haul route profile for TK that shows how virtually all its longhaul routes rely on huge numbers of hub feed connections. The posted data is looking back 12-months as of June 2012.
Legend is:
Destination / 12-month load factor % / Percent of IST vs Transfer / Top 5 Intl transfer cities
Bangkok / 78% / 41 vs 58% / ARN, CPH, GOT, TLV, HEL
Beijing / 73% / 29% vs 71% / ODS, TLV, OTP, ATH, CDG
Bombay / 82% / 24 vs 76% / TLV, ARN, LHR, IAD, ORD
Chicago / 82% / 47 vs 53% / TLV, BOM, ADD, NBO, IKA
Delhi / 75% / 23 vs 77% / TLV, BCN, IAD, TXL, CPH
Dhaka / 79% / 11 vs 88% / MXP, TIP, IAD, ARN, TLV, ODS, OTP, ALG, KBP
Hong Kong / 75% / 50 vs 50% / TLV, OTP, ATH, VCE, ODS
Johannesburg / 79% / 33 vs 67% / SOF, CPH, ARN, MXP, TXL
Lagos / 77% / 27 vs 73% / LHR, TLV, MXP, DUB, ATH
Los Angeles / 77% / 45 vs 53% / IKA, BEY, TLV, BOM, AMM
New York / 78% / 58 vs 41% / TLV, IKA, NBO, BEY, GYD
Osaka / 71% / 50 vs 50% / BCN, CDG, FCO, TLV, MUC
Sao Paulo / 71% / 36 vs 64% / BEY, ATH, TLV, DEL, PVG
Seoul / 78% / 34 vs 66% / ATH, FCO, BCN, CDG, TLV
Shanghai / 80% / 37 vs 62% / TLV, OTP, MXP, ODS, BCN
Singapore / 86% / 31 vs 68% / ODS, FCO, TLV, OTP, KBP
Tokyo / 74% / 68 vs 32% / CAI, TLV, BCN, ATH, MXP
Toronto/ 83% / 34 vs 66% / IKA, AMM, JED, MHD, CAI
Washington / 74% / 39 vs 61% / BOM, DEL, IKA, ADD, DAC
So as you can see virtually the entire TK longhaul widebody network is heavily reliant in transfer traffic.
The only markets that are primarily IST O&D are New York and Tokyo - not ironically two of TKs first longhaul markets ever with the arrival of the A310 back in 1988 and 1989.
If anyone is curious about other individual markets, I might be able to get the information for those as well.
Quoting TK1244 (Reply 14): A quick summary of the situation in Izmir following the comment of LAXintl in the previous thread ("As I recall the the commercial airport at Izmir prior to ADB opening was Cigli"):
Thanks for the Izmir history.
As far back as I can remember (into the 1970s) I always flew into Cigli. Never experienced Cumaovasi.
[Edited 2012-12-03 08:28:59]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14606 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22): Accordingly here is a long haul route profile for TK that shows how virtually all its longhaul routes rely on hub feed connections for support. The posted data is looking back 12-months as of June 2012.
I really like this chart a lot!! Wish there were more displays of this kind, showing these statistics.
Some make sense right out of the box..........others are really surprising.
Amazing data, thanks a lot! Would love to see more. It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY... And what's up with ODS being on top for PEK?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 26, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14753 times:
Something seems to have gone wrong with the formatting with Dhaka and we lost the Guangzhou entry.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 28, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14862 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 24): It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY...
Yes TLV is big for TK, although Iran is bigger - but traffic in Iran is split up with multiple service points of Tehran, Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad..
Could be some Chinese construction related traffic. For instance for a couple years TK flew lots of Chinese construction workers to Algiers on government infrastructure projects.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 25): Wow... thanks a lot for this data, really impressive!! Why is there so much demand between Turkey and Japan? Business or leisure?
A bit of both.
I know the Japanese were one of the first non European large investors in Turkey. Over 140 Japanese firms have offices in Turkey and they are involved in everything from large scale infrastructure projects, various manufacturing, to logistics.
Also for NRT keep in mind its schedule timing is very different then the remaining TK Far-East services so its carries more local traffic then wide range of transfers.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 25): Do you have the numbers for Belgrade?
Here you go..
Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY
Quoting JU068 (Reply 25): Also Mogadishu would be interesting to see.
Dont have it as the route is new (launched March 2012) and not generated 12-months of history.
However from what I have heard it basically carries folks from all over Europe. So wherever there is a Somali diaspora it should likely feed it.
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 27): Is it possible to have the information for domestic feed in Turkey for TK's long haul ex IST operation if possible?
Sure but its pretty predictable.
Ankara, Izmir, Antalya, Adana, Kayseri were the largest domestic feed producers to IST.
But if you would like to know the top beyond markets for Ankara traffic, they are:
LHR, AMS, BRU, CDG, GYD, VIE, FRA, JED, TXL, MED
[Edited 2012-12-03 10:31:41]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14769 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28): Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY
Thanks for the information. Interesting that Dubai still ranks as number one since flydubai operates between the two. Another interesting is Doha, I guess Qatar has some O&D market to reply upon now that they fly to Belgrade.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14766 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 24): Amazing data, thanks a lot! Would love to see more. It seems that TLV feeds a lot of the long haul network, even more than IKA or BEY... And what's up with ODS being on top for PEK?
There is less TLV out of the USA. No service on LY out of ORD or MIA anymore, so that forces people to use other gateways/hubs. In turn, with the Americans taking seats on other parts of Europe to TLV, this forces other non-Europeans to take alternative routings, depending on the day, of course, since the flights are often full.
As far as ODS goes, you can see it on the top list of a number of the lists. Much of this has to do with the general lack of service into ODS, relatively speaking, considering the amount of people that go there.
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 27): Is it possible to have the information for domestic feed in Turkey for TK's long haul ex IST operation if possible?
I'm really curious on where people from Batman(BAL) go to......
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14667 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 15): I think after they were left with no other choice but to close down KTHY, they realized that they do not have the necessary funds to run an airline. On top of it all, the fact that it could not fly directly to any airport beyond Turkey made it even more difficult, especially after increased competition from mainland Turkey.
Didn't KHTY have a flight to Skopje, at one time??
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 35, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14563 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 29): Thanks for the information. Interesting that Dubai still ranks as number one since flydubai operates between the two. Another interesting is Doha, I guess Qatar has some O&D market to reply upon now that they fly to Belgrade.
Sometimes just because someone enters the market does not mean a shift of traffic. Especially with an LCC they can generate all new demand with low fares. I also suspect people might use the FZ BEG flight from other cities in the region such as Zagreb to Budapest etc..
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 30): I'm really curious on where people from Batman(BAL) go to......
Not Transylvania -- ha ha
I don't have it as its a rather small market, but if its anything like other regional Turkish markets it should be primarily to Germany, and depending on religious nature of the population to JED/MED also possibly.
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 31): Does anyone have any more info / link on this? I can not find much online...
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 34): I am very curious about the connecting traffic to and from Spain.
Here you go..
Barcelona / 70% / 55 vs 45% / DEL, BEY, ICN, IKA, DXB
Madrid / 69% / 54 vs 46% / BEY, DEL, ICN, IKA, PEK
Malaga / 64% / 51 vs 49% / IKA, KWI, DXB, BEY, DOH
Valencia / 62% / 56 vs 44% / BEY, PVG, IKA, PEK, DXB
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 460 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14509 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35): Barcelona / 70% / 55 vs 45% / DEL, BEY, ICN, IKA, DXB
Madrid / 69% / 54 vs 46% / BEY, DEL, ICN, IKA, PEK
Malaga / 64% / 51 vs 49% / IKA, KWI, DXB, BEY, DOH
Valencia / 62% / 56 vs 44% / BEY, PVG, IKA, PEK, DXB
Thanks.
It seems to be a good mix of Middle East, India and East Asia there. I am surprised to see IKA is on the Top 5 in all of them (1st from AGP!)... BEY is not that surprising (no direct flights Lebanon-Spain).
VLC seems to rely more on East Asia traffic (no EK/QR from there) and AGP on the Gulf (Marbella in Malaga is a very popular destination for Gulf Arabs).
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 38, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14480 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35): Sometimes just because someone enters the market does not mean a shift of traffic. Especially with an LCC they can generate all new demand with low fares. I also suspect people might use the FZ BEG flight from other cities in the region such as Zagreb to Budapest etc..
Well, the reason why I mentioned it is because flydubai has become extremely popular in Serbia. Now during the holidays they intend on flying almost double daily. I didn't expect Dubai to remain as number one on the list. It will be interesting to see what impact Qatar will have on them.
Could you please provide me with numbers for Riga, a friend of mine is asking. Thanks.
Mathematically difficult as these destinations are served with lower capacity (aircraft and frequencywise). So the total number of pax is smaller as well, leading this destinations not to be in the top 5.
The LF of the Spanish destinations seems to be quite low in general. SIN LF is quite high. Maybe a sign to switch to bigger aircraft or to add higher frequency.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 40, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14449 times:
I'm surprised TK have not won over Pakistani travellers since they have been f;ying here since before the ME3 existed, infact they went down from wide body to narrrow twice from A310 and A330/340.
Very interesting data. Appreciate the effort. Would be great to see the numbers and destinations for ZAG, SKP, SJJ, PRN and SIP as well. For ZAG would be nice to know the data prior and after QR arrival to the city (2011 vs. 2012).
Also i always wondered what was TK's loadfactor to central Asian destinations as well as Russian and Ukrainian provincial cities? Wonder whether TK has plans to cut some of those, if they were profitable at all.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22): So as you can see virtually the entire TK longhaul widebody network is heavily reliant in transfer traffic.
Honestly i wouldn't have imagined that to such an extend, knowing Turkey is a tourism-powerhouse.
[Edited 2012-12-03 16:27:05]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1 Reply 42, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 14406 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28): Quoting JU068 (Reply 25):
Do you have the numbers for Belgrade?
Here you go..
Belgrade / 72% / 45 vs 55% / DXB, GYD, KWI, DOH, BEY
So we can conclude that most of inter-continental passengers to Asia, North America and others are taken away by SU and other European carriers? Would that mean that with QR's entrace TK might see even lower transiting figures from BEG (and lower O&D thanks to Pegasus)? Since last summer they operate BEG double daily on some days.
As for BEG-BEY the prices still remain irrationally high, around 700$ round-trip out of season.
Other fact, TK experiences extremly sharp competition at KBP on almost all of its destinations. Would you have the numbers for that route, would be interesting to see it.
[Edited 2012-12-03 16:33:19]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 39): SIN LF is quite high. Maybe a sign to switch to bigger aircraft or to add higher frequency.
Eventually SIN and CGK will be decoupled giving each destination its own flight.
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 41): Would be great to see the numbers and destinations for ZAG, SKP, SJJ, PRN and SIP as well.
Here is the big one ZAG.
Zagreb / 76% / 48 vs 52 / ICN, DXB, DOH, CAI, IKA
Takes time to dig up all the info others, but a cursory look largest markets for TK are PRN, SJJ, SIP then SKP. Load factor wise the strongest is SJJ.
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 41): Wonder whether TK has plans to cut some of those, if they were profitable at all.
I dont think TK views routes on standalone profitability anymore. They are viewed in the larger context of network benefit and connectivity.
I know for a fact that several rather big name cities are loss making, but its important to have them for the feed and for the sake of serving them due to their popularity.
Its like any airline. A good portion of markets might be loss making on standalone, but their net benefits to the hub is greater then what they produce on their own.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
What i am impressed about is that TK's footprint in Iran isn't higher than that, given the blockades that IR faces.
Does IR has code-share agreements with any European airline for North American flights?
Also i'm completely puzzled by Dhaka being such an important piece in TK's network, incredible numbers, great job LAXintl.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Now that's also astonishing, IKA especially. ICN and CAI for the tourists (Korean and Croatian respectively), DXB/DOH for the expats but IKA i really can't explain.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 46, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14458 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 44): What i am impressed about is that TK's footprint in Iran isn't higher than that, given the blockades that IR faces.
The now 5 Iran markets represented almost 700,000 enplanements. I believe TK is the largest foreign airline in Iran these days.
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 44): Does IR has code-share agreements with any European airline for North American flights
They can't codeshare formally to the US, but I know they have ticketing agreements with both TK and KL. For TK they do codeshare on Turkey services.
In the past IR also had deals with Martinair and LTU for connections to the US.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1 Reply 47, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14412 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46): The now 5 Iran markets represented almost 700,000 enplanements. I believe TK is the largest foreign airline in Iran these days.
What's surprising is that IR still remains the dominant carrier in Iran, despite all the sanctions put upon them. A bit off-topic but anyone would know the exact market share at IKA between IR and foreign carriers? Also, any idea on when IR has been cut-off from the GDS? Thanks.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Northstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14210 times:
TK online checkin is not working again. Also, the Miles and Smiles log in does not work. They have been having huge problems with these systems lately, since the last month they were hacked. Lots of passenger information were stolen.
You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
05.12.12 IST-Kilimanjaro-Mombasa
11.12.12 IST - Sao Paulo-Buenos Aires
15.12.12 IST- Niamey-Ouagadougou
19.12.12 IST – Isfahan
21.12.12 IST – Yaounde – Douala
26.12.12 IST - Kermanshah
01.04.13 IST-Houston
21.05.13 IST – Santiago de Compostela
THY fly at the moment to 93 countries and 208 destinations. After adding destinations until end of 2012, there will be 97 countries and 217 destinatios, as Temel Kotil recently said. He will open 33 new destinations until end of 2013, makes 250 destinations.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 51, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14059 times:
Turkish Cargo will add Chengdu China in early 2013 with its A330Fs. Chengdu is a growing inland manufacturing hub.
Also apparently they have applied for freighter rights to Vietnam as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 384 posts, RR: 2 Reply 52, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13912 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 44): Also i'm completely puzzled by Dhaka being such an important piece in TK's network, incredible numbers, great job LAXintl.
Just flew JFK-IST-DAC yesterday ... am writing from Dhaka now.
My experience was so bizzarre... a superb Comfort Class experience on JFK-IST compared to a terrible Terrible TERRIBLE experience on the IST-DAC sector. If Comfort is Y+ .. then it I certainly got Y- in the second leg. Will fill in the details soon.
But IST-DAC was certainly packed to the rims ... both C and Y. Mostly connecting traffic from USA and North/West Europe ... as the data provided by LAXintl suggested. Great numbers indeed!
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13823 times:
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 54, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13754 times:
End of November figures for Turkish airports are out on DHMI website. IST has reached 41,454,675 passengers for the 11 months so far, clocking in nearly 4m pax in one month and up nearly 7m on last year's same period. We might be seeing 45m for the whole year.
The figure for all Turkish airports is 121,800,591, adding 9m pax in November and up 10.5m on last year. It is interesting to see that 8m of the 10.5m additional pax is in IST/SAW alone.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13601 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 55): Thats certainly interesting. Although TK will offer the better product IMHO .
Yes indeed. I am presuming that AC will use single-cabin 767 planes, like they do for YYZ-ATH. But correct me if I'm wrong on this.
gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1096 posts, RR: 2 Reply 58, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13542 times:
Thanks for the interesting and very needed info as always. Excellent post.
Just looking at this table shows you the importance of TLV to TK, one would wonder where the numbers would be if "mavi 'marmara" didn't happen, or the stance of Turkish pm on Israel relationships was different...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 59, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13602 times:
Here some other random stats for THY.
Largest County Markets in pax
Germany
Italy
USA
France
UK
Saudi Arabia
China
Spain
Switzerland
Iran
Top 10 foreign stations in scheduled enplanments
LHR
FRA
CDG
DUS
BRU
TLV
AMS
JFK
MXP
JED
If you add charters in then German stations and Saudi Arabia climb higher.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ESB also reached 8,518,624 pax until end of November 2012. International pax average 12% increase and domestic 10% increase overall. The airport is reaching its capacity of 10 m pax per annum quite shortly we can see.
Overall ESB and ADB will also be in 10 m or more pax range very shortly to make Turkey's large airports from two (IST+AYT) until 3 years ago, to five (IST+AYT+SAW+ESB+ADB)
I do not think there is any other market in the world with such performance, may be in the Far East ???
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13524 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 57): No its a two cabin service to IST.
Thanks for clarifying this. Still, like you, I still think TK will fare better on this route, as opposed to AC, regardless.
tkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 643 posts, RR: 1 Reply 62, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13444 times:
WOW, amazing data LaxIntl,
do you have the same numbers (O&D vs. transfer, and top destinations) for the German Airports. As Everybody else, I think, they mostly rely on ethnic traffic, but it seems there are some unknown surprises.
Thank you in advance.
It would be interesting to have the same data for major Hubs like, LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, VIE, DXB ect.
It is interesting to note that the only two Middle Eastern destinations on the Top 10 are TLV and JED, where for European/US traffic the big 3 Gulf carriers are in clear disadvantage when compared to other cities such as KWI, RUH or BAH (no connectivity in TLV and big detour from JED) and both cities (even if so different) have based LY and SV which don't stand out for being at the height of service or connectivity.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 64, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13338 times:
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 58): Just looking at this table shows you the importance of TLV to TK, one would wonder where the numbers would be if "mavi 'marmara" didn't happen, or the stance of Turkish pm on Israel relationships was different...
Yes TLV would likely be much bigger even if politics did not get in the way. Sadly Israeli tourism to Turkey is down significantly.
Here is the details.
Tel Aviv / 75% / 48 vs 52% / JFK, PVG, PEK, BOM, DEL
Quoting tkfan (Reply 62): do you have the same numbers (O&D vs. transfer, and top destinations) for the German Airports.
Here are a few German airports.
Berlin / 81% / 54 vs 46% / IKA, GYD, BEY, DEL, BOM
Dusseldorf / 83% / 67 vs 33% / AMM, JED, GYD, PVG, DEL
Hamburg / 78% / 50 vs 50% / BEY, MHD, IKA, DEL, TLV
Frankfurt / 84% / 61 vs 39% / TBS, KBL, IKA, GYD, FRU
Munich / 79% / 61 vs 39% / IKA, BEY, GYD, PVG, TLV
Quoting tkfan (Reply 62): It would be interesting to have the same data for major Hubs like, LHR, CDG, AMS, ZRH, VIE, DXB ect.
Lots of work to collect so many airports, but here are some.
Amsterdam / 78% / 55 vs 45% / JED, MED, KBL, AMM, GYD
Heathrow / 82% / 63 vs 37% / LOS, BOM, BGW, IKA, TBS
Paris / 77% / 54 vs 46% / MED, JED, IKA, AMM, DXB
Might do rest later.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 66, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13104 times:
Remember the news that TK might get rid of Comfort Class? How about this? LH Confirms Premium Eco (by bavair Dec 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)
With the possible new relations between LH and TK, TK might change its mind for the new WB order.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 72, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12871 times:
I didn't notice MNL the first time I read the list, but this should help things in Greece, oddly enough, should TK put IST-MNL on the schedule. Currently the only flight from Asia to Greece is Air China, which makes a stop in MUC in both directions.
The situation vis-a-vis Greece-Asia/Pacific is there is not enough service, from the continent as a whole.....but on the other hand, not quite enough for anyone to put a stand-alone flight. 2013 willl be different than 2012. EK has added flights from Australia, so now you have the four largest AU cities connecting into the DXB-ATH trip. Unless they increase capacity, the DXB-ATH portion will sell out much quicker, due to more feed from Australia(which has traditionally a strong connection to Greece).
TG and SQ are now absent from ATH which is going to make it more difficult, combined with less seats out of DXB, for Filipinos. If TK comes through, and puts this on, this will be a useful connection option for those traveling MNL-ATH.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 74, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12899 times:
Here some more of the requested cities.
Dubai / 82% / 36 vs 64% / PRN, SKP, HEL, ARN, CDG
Vienna / 71% / 56 vs 44% / BEY, JED, TBS, PVG, IKA
Zurich / 75% / 57 vs 43% / IKA, ICN, BEY, PVG, GYD
And some more German ones.
Bremen / 80% / 72 vs 28% / IKA, GYD, BEY, AMM, DEL
Cologne / 80% / 68 vs 32% / IKA, GYD, TBZ, MHD, DXB
Hanover / 80% / 55 vs 45% / IKA, BEY, JED, AMM, PEK
Nuremberg / 76% / 55 vs 45% / IKA, DEL, GYD, DXB, TLV
Stuttgart / 81% / 64 vs 36% / TLV, PVG, PEK, IKA, DXB
Quoting tkfan (Reply 65): Interesting numbers, I would have thought BKK would rank very high from Germany.
BKK on TK seems to be a favorite out of Scandinavia.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 66): With the possible new relations between LH and TK, TK might change its mind for the new WB order.
I dont see the connection. Its quite normal for partner airlines to offer very different products. Even within the LH Group the products are different between airlines.
Quoting 777way (Reply 68): According to a Pakistani Urdu newspaper not online, TK have been granted permission to fly four times weekly to Lahore from January.
Great. But amazing how slow and restrictive the Pakistani transportation officials are to grant these rights.
It took TK years to move beyond more 7 weekly frequencies to only KHI.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 71): Wow this is kind of strange, isn't it a bit of a detour to fly to Lagos via Istanbul?
Believe it or not EK carries people to Lagos via Dubai. For the right $$$, whats a few hours.
Quoting Giancavia (Reply 73): Any chance of seeing LTN flights with PAX services.
Doubtful. When faced with slot problems at LHR and even LGW, TK recently tried service at STN. Did not work well. Even LGW has been a relative poor performer for TK.
So don't look for cargo to be connected to passenger ops. Cargo goes places the passenger airline does not, and likely never will.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TurkishWings From Turkey, joined May 2006, 1407 posts, RR: 9 Reply 75, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 12774 times:
Someone please stop me. I am now holding 15 domestic and 2 intl. tickets on TK, KK and PC using the latest and TRL 78 and EUR 99 promotions etc. It's so cheap that I just can not stop buying
TurkishWings From Turkey, joined May 2006, 1407 posts, RR: 9 Reply 76, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12754 times:
For those who are wondering the loads on the new MLE flights: It just took off with 85 pax in total. That is 29% LF. It has been operating with similar loads since it started... I guess it needs some time to mature... The equipment tonight is TC-JNK an Airbus 333 but it has been a mix of 332 and 333 since it began. Average flight time around 07:10 mins...
boun From Turkey, joined Nov 2012, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 77, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12747 times:
I am thrilled to see TK has become a major player in connecting traffic. I am sure with the third airport, things will get even better.
On a different note, Air Europa of Spain has sent A332s to Istanbul couple times last month. Does anybody have an info on this? The flight number is 905, unusual for a technical/non-scheduled trip which tend to have more digit numbers I think.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12652 times:
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 76): For those who are wondering the loads on the new MLE flights: It just took off with 85 pax in total. That is 29% LF. It has been operating with similar loads since it started... I guess it needs some time to mature... The equipment tonight is TC-JNK an Airbus 333 but it has been a mix of 332 and 333 since it began. Average flight time around 07:10 mins...
TK needs to promote this in America more. There are people here that go to the Maldives, but it seems like an IST connection would be much easier than what most of these people are currently taking.
TurkishWings From Turkey, joined May 2006, 1407 posts, RR: 9 Reply 82, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12417 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 81): In summer MLE goes down to 3w since it is low season in Maldives. I'd expect loads to improve by Jan but 5w is too much for a holiday spot.
I think high frequency is important to catch connecting traffic but I think the 330 is a wrong choice here. I initially thought MLE would be a 739 destination to start with...
tkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 643 posts, RR: 1 Reply 83, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12345 times:
Thanks for your efforts LAXintl. very interesting data.
I guess the high share of O&D of BRE is due to the short period compared to other German stations? Do you have the same numbers for LEJ?? there is not the usual ethnic traffic I guess.
Other than that, it seems Turkish Airlines has room to increase capacity to its North European and Near Eastern Destinations. GYD, TBS, BEY and IKA gets a lot of connection traffic.
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 84, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12296 times:
Put on the destinations wish list:
Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia)
Ndjamena (Tschad)
Kathmandu (Nepal)
Mezar-i-Sarif (Afghanistan)
Juba (South Sudan)
Lenkaran (Azerbeycan)
Friedrichshafen (Germany)
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 85, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12297 times:
TK is on a roll... Not long after their last announcements, they have added 7 more destinations to their wishlist...
Add those to:
Abha
Abuja
Al-Qassim
Asmara
Aswan
Atlanta
Boston
Buenos Aires (beginning soon)
Caracas
Colombo
Constanta
Douala (beginning soon)
Esfahan (beginning soon)
Havana
Houston (beginning Spring 13)
Kano
Kermanshah (beginning soon)
Kharkiv
Kilimanjaro (begun)
Krakow
Libreville
Luanda
Luxembourg
Luxor
Malta
Manila
Marseille
Mexico City
Mombasa (begun)
Montreal
Niamey (beginning soon)
Ouagadougou (beginning soon)
Salzburg
San Francisco
Santiago de Compostela (beginning Spring 13)
Tallinn
Vilnius
Yaunde (beginning soon)
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 86, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12262 times:
I really think Canary Islands, Reykjavik can't be that long after some of these cities...
What happened to Lima, Peru?
or Miami, Detroit?
How about Seattle or Vancouver, Phoenix or Las Vegas one day?
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24894 posts, RR: 60 Reply 87, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12258 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 61): Thanks for clarifying this. Still, like you, I still think TK will fare better on this route, as opposed to AC, regardless.
Indeed having flown the TK product YYZ-IST last year in J it will be hard to compete , I like AC but I certainly would not choose them over TK on this route.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 88, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12229 times:
Good news for THY.
Iberia confirms is cutting Istanbul effective "mid-January"
Says it was unprofitable with "tourist component mainly"
According to the statistics you provided us with, a bit more than half of all passengers on board Turkish Airlines' flights from Madrid have been O&D. I wonder what impact Iberia's withdrawal will have on Turkish Airlines. Also, what is more likely to happen, a capacity increase or additional frequencies?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 91, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12173 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 79): TK needs to promote this in America more. There are people here that go to the Maldives, but it seems like an IST connection would be much easier than what most of these people are currently taking.
Primary target market for Maldives is Europe - and Northern Europe and UK specifically.
TK has much larger markets to peddle connections to in North America - eg India, Iran, Israel, Levent, etc..
Quoting tkfan (Reply 83): Do you have the same numbers for LEJ??
I dont have any data on Leipzig.
Quoting tkfan (Reply 83): I guess the high share of O&D of BRE is due to the short period compared to other German stations?
No idea. Could have to do with timing of flights, local travel agents they deal with, volume of Turks in Bremen etc...
But route only started in May, so couple months of data is probably not very accurate yet.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 89): what is more likely to happen, a capacity increase or additional frequencies?
I'd say add another frequency.
TK could use an early AM departure from Madrid like 7 or 8am, with late evening return back.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 93, posted (5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12088 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 92): Good for TK but bad for us... All IST will be left with is AF/KL/BA/LH/EK/QR very soon.
Its called market forces. The strong survive, the weak die.
But anyhow - per TAV, IST has almost 130 tenant airlines.
Add in activity over at SAW, the market in Istanbul is extremely competitive. Just look at TurkishWings in reply 75 talking about the great promotions in the market he is buying.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 95, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11895 times:
Quoting bilguun (Reply 94): If TK announces Yangon, Taipei, Pyongyang, Yerevan, Vientiane, Phnom Penh and Manila then it pretty much covers all over asia.
Pyongyang - not possible for now. That would not go down well with the US. Yerevan, not until Turkey achieves a solid accord with Armenia. Vientiane - I don't think so as there is very little going on in Laos. Phnom Penh, Manila, Taipei and Yangon are I am sure on their long term plans though.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 97, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11822 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 88): Iberia confirms is cutting Istanbul effective "mid-January"
In another thread I mentioned that TK is grabbing market share from others and I was corrected by someone that ALL airlines are doing well, since the size of the pie is getting bigger. (not that TK is stealing a bigger size of the pie).
Here we are; IB is leaving Istanbul, after TK started to fly to 6 destinations in Spain.
LY left Istanbul and guess what city is one of the top cities for TK for transfer pax.
I still believe that TK is stealing market share from all European/ME airlines and this is just a start. I can't even imagine 10 years from now, when TK could triple its WB fleet and double its NB fleet, and operating from a 100million pax+ brand new airport in Istanbul.
JU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 99, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11719 times:
Does someone know what will happen with the slots Iberia used? Can they sell them to Turkish Airlines or is there some regulatory body that needs to approve this?
boun From Turkey, joined Nov 2012, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 100, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11712 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 99): Does someone know what will happen with the slots Iberia used? Can they sell them to Turkish Airlines or is there some regulatory body that needs to approve this?
I don't know the procedure but have a hunch that Lufthansa might be interested in acquiring them.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 101, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11676 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 95): ngyang - not possible for now. That would not go down well with the US.
I dont think the so, airlines are not flying to North Korea bcause there isnt a market except for China and some seasonal tour groups, also I dont think they encorage large scale travel from outsiders or foreign carriers, again China being the exception, with Air China flying there scheduled twice weekly with 737-700 nothing bigger nor more frequent.
Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia)
Ndjamena (Tschad)
Kathmandu (Nepal)
Mezar-i-Sarif (Afghanistan)
Juba (South Sudan)
Lenkaran (Azerbeycan)
Friedrichshafen (Germany)
This is insane... do they have open skies with Germany? Otherwise how many destinations are already serving there? I think Turkey-Spain has a maximum of 8 destinations for each one in the other country under the current bilateral, and TK will already serve 6 from 2013... they might need to revise the bilateral soon under this pace of growth!
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 105, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11644 times:
Pyongyang makes economically no sense, and Yerevan is difficult...
Quoting JU068 (Reply 103): Are they interested in adding flights from Munich, Frankfurt or some other German city?
I know that they are going 12w from dec and 14w from summer to NUE. No idea about other destinations. But examples to CDG and FRA show that 4d are sufficient to serve a big airport with offering the most connections possible.
Do TK really need allowance to fly to Europe? I mean Turkey is inside the European tariff union and has freedom in exporting products and giving services as well. What you are saying would be a big surprise for me.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 106, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11632 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 97): In another thread I mentioned that TK is grabbing market share from others and I was corrected by someone that ALL airlines are doing well, since the size of the pie is getting bigger. (not that TK is stealing a bigger size of the pie).
Well its true the pie is growing. Look at the huge increase in travel by Turks and the growth of the middle class in Turkey.
Related on the A.net front page there is a thread about IATA forecasting global demand rising 28% over 6-years. Quite significant.
But to gauge THY specifically vis-a-vis the pie lets look at its market share in Turkey.
For the first 9-months of 2012 TK will carried 47% of international and 50% of domestic passengers.
In 2010 it was 54% international and 57% domestic
And in 2007 was 57% international 66% domestic.
This basically means regardless of how fast THY is growing, the pie is growing even faster, and TK is actually losing market share.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 97): LY left Istanbul and guess what city is one of the top cities for TK for transfer pax.
Main reason LY left IST and AYT was a security issue - difficulty for their armed staff to work in Turkey.
(remember they previously suspended Turkey flights briefly due to security as well)
Quoting tkfan (Reply 98): Do you have any data of LGW, since it is quickly increased to double daily and mostly operated by A321.
Yes, I'll get it for you at another time. Dont have access to all my documents at the moment.
Quoting JU068 (Reply 99): Does someone know what will happen with the slots Iberia used? Can they sell them to Turkish Airlines or is there some regulatory body that needs to approve this?
Unused slots revert to the civil aviation authority. IST is not like LHR where there is a active secondary slot sales market.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
boun From Turkey, joined Nov 2012, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 107, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11581 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 103): Are they interested in adding flights from Munich, Frankfurt or some other German city?
I remember reading an article about their intentions to send wide body aircraft to IST or open flights to SAW if they were not able to secure additional slots. The market between FRA and IST (possibly MUC and IST) can easily support a fourth daily flight by LH given the amount of connecting traffic (in addition to O&D pax)
IB 3313 departs from Istanbul at 16h25. Got to check LH&TK schedule to see if a departure around that time works for LH.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 108, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11487 times:
Quoting boun (Reply 107): I remember reading an article about their intentions to send wide body aircraft to IST or open flights to SAW if they were not able to secure additional slots. The market between FRA and IST (possibly MUC and IST) can easily support a fourth daily flight by LH given the amount of connecting traffic (in addition to O&D pax)
IB 3313 departs from Istanbul at 16h25. Got to check LH&TK schedule to see if a departure around that time works for LH.
I don't think LH is in a hurry to add flights to IST - if the partnership talks that have been circulating lately ends in a JV, they will be sharing revenue anyway. TK can get slots much easier in that case. BA would be more obvious, given the high LF between LHR-IST.
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 104): This is insane... do they have open skies with Germany?
Indeed they do. AFAIK no limitation on number of destinations or frequencies. That surely pisses off EK or EY I am sure.
That is bad... TK 1981 is way too early (7:30am?) to get much feed I guess. TK 1997 leaves past noon.
About the shrinking list of tenants at IST; apart from BA, are there any Oneworld members left at IST? Does RJ still fly to IST? Even Skyteam has 8-9 airlines flying here.
Well, the market is definitely there, I guess soon we will know what will happen. Currently there are no flights to Frankfurt at around that time, there is to Munich.
TurkishWings From Turkey, joined May 2006, 1407 posts, RR: 9 Reply 111, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11392 times:
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 108): That is bad... TK 1981 is way too early (7:30am?) to get much feed I guess. TK 1997 leaves past noon.
The in-bounds are a little better but then it is the low season now... Even LHR traffic id slow (up to 5 times daily and 2 of which are wide body aircraft). The first LGW flight is too early for O&D but it meets almost all Far East + Central Asia and Middle Eastern flights. I would have expected the first flight to have better occupancy.
RJ still flies to IST twice daily with a mixture of E 175 and 195. On another interesting note about AMM: The flight now takes almost 2:20 wheels up/down. It used to be around 1:50 before the closure of Syrian airspace.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 112, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11366 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 104): This is insane... do they have open skies with Germany? Otherwise how many destinations are already serving there? I think Turkey-Spain has a maximum of 8 destinations for each one in the other country under the current bilateral, and TK will already serve 6 from 2013... they might need to revise the bilateral soon under this pace of growth!
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 91): Primary target market for Maldives is Europe - and Northern Europe and UK specifically.
TK has much larger markets to peddle connections to in North America - eg India, Iran, Israel, Levent, etc..
Certainly quite a few of these. Iran, especially, with connections to other places besides Tehran. Still, TK could get a few more Maldives-bound US passengers away from their competition.
debonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 4 Reply 113, posted (5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11213 times:
I need help from our Turkish Community, regarding SKY AIRLINES.
Any idea what's going on- are the close to end operations?
German Sky Airlines, there sister carrier, folded ops on Dec 1st- returning their a/c's. After having returned their 2 ANA A320's, Sky Airlines seems to have also returned at least 2 of their B738- on top of the grounding of some of their B734's (I haven't seen TC-SKD for ages-any idea what happened to this plane?).
So, this seems much more worsening than just the usual winter scale back, doesn't it!?
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 114, posted (5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11164 times:
-I was in TK1 IST-JFK yesterday. Our plane was -JJJ "Erzurum", in great shape.
-Business and Economy were full. 25 out of 68 Comfort seats were sold when I checked in. By the way, "Comfort" has its own check in now, I saw that both in LAX and IST. Then, pax with small children were given seats in Y+. Maybe Y was overbooked. But still not a full Comfort class.
-LAX boarding was very organized, but yesterday again in IST no announcements, pretty much people get up and form a line...
-Being a Saturday flight, many old people and many, many kids...
-We had wifi, liveTV ( no more LigTV), my personal LED light fixture was broken, I emailed the TK facebook page and got a response just after I landed, that it will be fixed when they can, Pretty cool.
-Since Y+ was not full, the service was great. I got extra everything.
This was my 6th Comfort class flight this year, I guess I am not going back to DL
boun From Turkey, joined Nov 2012, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 117, posted (5 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10921 times:
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 115): I know TK has its own problems but having flown both DL and TK (in Y) there really is no comparison in hard product amd foos at least
What about the United product? The route has been there for almost 6 months now. Are they happy with their LF, more importantly the yields?
Thanks for the reply.
May I ask source of it? I can confirm all these are potential selling destinations from Spain, however most of them are not even in top 15... for instance we can miss following ones which TK is competitive in terms of elapse time and price SHA/BOM/DAC/ISB
cuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 207 posts, RR: 0 Reply 122, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10597 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 113): I need help from our Turkish Community, regarding SKY AIRLINES.
Any idea what's going on- are the close to end operations?
Well, with Sky you never know. For years people have said that Sky Airlines will fold, but until now they have always survived. The company seems to have more lives than a cat.
That being said, I also believe that Sky Airlines will shut down operations this year. Besides the reason you have been mentioning about German Sky Airlines and the return of two A320's; here are some additional facts:
- Sky lost about 20-25 million dollars on their domestic operation venture last year.
- Sky lost 5 major contracts with tour operators in Germany (which has always been their main market).
- Most of the Sky Airplanes are on the ground in Antalya (maximum a couple of flights per day).
- Except for the old B737's, the leasing cost of the remaining fleet is between 250.000 to 350.000 Euro per month.
- Their only remaining hotel Adam & Eve is up for sale.
- The crews and the hotel emplyees has not received their salaries for the last 5 month.
- The crew received only half salary during many of the summer month.
- A lot of their assets (buildings, buses ect) belongs to a certain percent to the banks.
Time will tell, but personally I think the end for Sky Airlines is very near. I don't expect them to operate another summer.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 126, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10275 times:
Its a 12-month data dump of network flow connections. From markets pairs that generate 1,000's of annual connections down to ones that generate barely have 10 per year.
Quoting Steelyman (Reply 120): I can confirm all these are potential selling destinations from Spain, however most of them are not even in top 15... for instance we can miss following ones which TK is competitive in terms of elapse time and price SHA/BOM/DAC/ISB
I'm quite certain as to the validity of the data as this is the same info the airline basically has - they generate the numbers after all. Your mentioned cities are on the list, but they did not produce the raw numbers as high as the top-5 I listed.
Also keep in mind - the flows data is bidirectional. So MAD-IKA is the same as IKA-MAD and would include sales in Spain, Iran and 3rd locations. The statistics are not simple point of sale data, but instead traffic flow.
Quoting dancrane (Reply 124): LAX, can You kindly post data from/to italian market please? Would be interesting to see them. Thanks a lot!
Rome / 72% / 49 vs 51% / ICN, IKA, SIN, GYD, BOM
Milan / 73% / 65 vs 35% / IKA, DEL, PVG, AMM, GYD
Venice / 70% / 50 vs 50% / PVG, DEL, DAC, IKA, ICN
I can look up others later.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 127, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10266 times:
refering to TurkishWings, TK787 and Leftyborder's posts to the recently started MLE ops I just read in Ugus Cebeci's article (thanks tozbek!) that they are going to add a tag-on to CMB which in my oppinion makes perfectly sense. As mentioned the 330 is - for the time being - a bit too much. The 739 is also quite useful, but is probably used elsewhere with higher margins.
Btw. I was onboard TC-JNR / A330-300 yesterday enroute FRA-IST and want to share some details.
- the aircraft is not even 1 year old, but already shows signs of heavy usage. I was sitting in the rear part of Eco and could easily count more than 10 seats which were in a bad shape (cushion cuts/scratches, magazin holder hanging around, stains, etc). of course, I can not blame TK, because the people using those seats are doing this; however, it was a very bad experience since I expected a spotless "brand new" aircraft.
- we were sitting inside the aircraft waiting for de-icing on position for almost three (3!!!) hours. the snow overnight hit FRA very badly. only one little announcement by the captain without much details and English not really understandable. beverages were brought by the crew only on request. they seemed quite neutral, not overall friendly, but also not rude - just going back and fourth to the galley to bring stuff. luckily the IFE was turned on so the people were watching movies, playing around or just doze off.
- IFE is a great feature and TK is developing in this area. only the variety is lacking at the moment. Internet was not active and the fleet infos out of date (TC-JNR not even showing as part of the fleet).
- received for the I don't know how many time the same choice of chicken-beef or pasta. it's really getting boring and on top of it the quality as well as the quantities are not the same as it used to be before. Pity! since there are really some people who just choose TK because of their food
- the lav's were terrible. didn't see such stinky and badly cleaned lav's for a long time. the icing of the cake was that this was right at the beginning of the flight - I went to the loo during boring, but ignored it afterwards for the entire flight
- purserette with good announcements (I think that intercont crews have better English, please correct me if I'm wrong?!?!) and one single flightattendent who even spoke German fluently. the others as usual...
thijs1984 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10144 times:
Quoting TK787 (Thread starter): -TK to open 33 new routes in 2013; and here is a wish list from TK (thanks to Leftyboarder) please correct if wrong!
Think we can add Rotterdam as the 34th destination then.
Turkish airlines has allocated slots for RTM for the forthcomming summer. According to info so far it should be daily rotation from IST in de afternoon.
Wondering if there is any additional info available at the Turkish side of the forum?
TK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 131, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10013 times:
Quoting thijs1984 (Reply 129): Turkish airlines has allocated slots for RTM for the forthcomming summer. According to info so far it should be daily rotation from IST in de afternoon.
I'm praying for this one since the last announcement few years ago (^_^')
Quoting JU068 (Reply 130): What kind of market are they after in Rotterdam?
The same market Lufthansa and British Airways are aiming at? To attract business travelers to and from the Dutch mainport, Port of Rotterdam. There is also a "large" Turkish community in Rotterdam and area, which can provide some O&D passengers.
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
thijs1984 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 133, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9971 times:
Quoting JU068 (Reply 130): What kind of market are they after in Rotterdam?
some correct answers are already given by TK1244.
The combined Rotterdam - the Hague metro area is home approx 5 million people. That is a lot of potential O&D traffic. and these flights will also feed the growing TK-nework from IST.
It would make sense to fly to RTM instead of adding capacity to AMS.
thijs1984 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 135, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9799 times:
Quoting tkfan (Reply 134): It seems AMS will get additional frequencies to SAW in SFP13
Good news.
HV has announced they will start a 4 x weekly service RTM-SAW SFP13 maybe due to the fact that TK also had intentions of starting this route previous summer, but now the plans seems to have changed and TK will now probably fly out of IST to RTM, but it would be delightfull if someone can conrfirm this from the Turkish side (otherwise we would have to wait the official press announcement)
I guess there will be some good competition on the routes from both AMS and RTM
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 138, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9716 times:
IB closing route from MAD-IST from 12JAN13 (source airlineroute). I once read here that IB has a higher LF on that route than TK. I guess this is one of the reasons why TK wants to open a 3rd daily to MAD.
About time... They need to do this at all longhaul stations (JFK, LAX, HKG, NRT, SIN, PEK to begin with) and LHR, CDG, AMS, MUC, FRA at least in the near term.
By the way, I saw it twice now on National TV during prime time. Even the guy working at my local bank branch in NYC asked me questions about it. TK is spending a lot of money broadcasting it
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 143, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9122 times:
Quote:
Turkey's national carrier Turkish Airlines plans to double flights between Delhi and Istanbul and add Hyderabad and Kolkata as new destinations next year, its chief executive, Temel Kotil, told ET.
"We will expand into 250 destinations by next year and offer more connectivity to Indians," Kotil said. "We've better connections than Gulf carriers and have 85% loads from India. This is much more than our network-wide average of 77%."
AI related:
"Air India is in good shape and has a good service quality. We, as Turkish Airlines, support them and are ready to help the AI management in our capacity to join us (Star Alliance). We are also ready to work with them to extend code-shares beyond Istanbul," Kotil said.
By the way, I saw it twice now on National TV during prime time. Even the guy working at my local bank branch in NYC asked me questions about it. TK is spending a lot of money broadcasting it
And I just checked, it got 36 million plus hits on youtube in 6 days. Really??
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 147, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8084 times:
As is customary around this time of the month (towards the end of the second week of the month that is), TK has released monthly figures.
For Jan-Nov,
Pax is up 19.5% from 30.1m to 35.9m
LF is up 5.2 from 72.7 to 77.9
ASK is up 18.2% from 74.4 bn to 87.9bn
RPK is up 26.6% from 54.1bn to 68.4bn
They are on target for 39m pax for the whole year. And if not this year, we surely will be seeing 12 month rolling ASK figure exceed 100bn by March or April 2013.
gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1096 posts, RR: 2 Reply 154, posted (5 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8014 times:
I must thank TK787 for the information he shared with us and I am sorry about the articles with no credit given to you or to this website (if that will make you feel better somehow)
On a different note, TK used to fly CDG, MXP from Bodrum before (for a summer I think). This made me think. With the recent moves to relieve IST traffic are there any plans to reinstate flights from ADB, ESB to DUS, CDG etc? Maybe they could use the last flights of the day for another rotation like their recent announcement with Adana-Stuttgart
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 158, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7749 times:
Oh well. I guess it means we must be doing something interesting here for people to so obviously copy.
But the funny part for me is this info is hardly secret. Every airline tracks this information (on even more detailed) basis about its competitors to keep on eye on market share and fares generated. There is even a huge industry of companies that sell this information including industry trade group IATA.
Anyhow, I think we should have some fun start posting some false information here and see which people are guilible or desperate enough to latch on.
And speaking of new destinations for THY - any idea when they will propose service to the moon?
After all Pan Am did so in 1964 and collect 93,000 people on a waiting list. Pan Am To The Moon (by LatinPlane May 26 2010 in Civil Aviation)
=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Wouldn't it make sense for TK to do a (mainly) short/mid-haul secondary hub (like DUS for LH) in ESB or even SAW?. It looks like the new airport in IST will take ages to the built and they cannot keep continue the pace of growth in the current Ataturk.
It could eventually carry some Europe-Middle East/Central Asia traffic, and IST could grow in intercontinental.
I exactly know who he is Iwas talking about the first article... I know tozbek from anet and I follow him on twitter. i despise cebeci for many reasons, I see he is following hos footsteps...
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 162, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7492 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 160): Wouldn't it make sense for TK to do a (mainly) short/mid-haul secondary hub (like DUS for LH) in ESB or even SAW?. It looks like the new airport in IST will take ages to the built and they cannot keep continue the pace of growth in the current Ataturk. It could eventually carry some Europe-Middle East/Central Asia traffic, and IST could grow in intercontinental.
We do get a lot of business travel here in seattle, mostly related to Boeing, that originates in ESB. We have TK buying passenger planes, and also the Turkish Air Force, constantly here for training.
Having ESB to a New York airport or Dulles would make sense. Even ADB-JFK for the summer season would make sense.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 163, posted (5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7464 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 162): We do get a lot of business travel here in seattle, mostly related to Boeing, that originates in ESB. We have TK buying passenger planes, and also the Turkish Air Force, constantly here for training.
Having ESB to a New York airport or Dulles would make sense. Even ADB-JFK for the summer season would make sense.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 158): And speaking of new destinations for THY - any idea when they will propose service to the moon?
Moon? Not in my lifetime I am afraid.
On the other hand, since we are talking about far and away places (I am not including all and every city that has been rumored/mentioned so far like HAV, SFO, MIA, Lima Peru...); my list;
-Reykjavik
-Tenerife
-Seattle or Vancouver
-Las Vegas or Phoenix
-San Juan, PR or San Jose, Costa Rica or Montevideo (after yesterdays bilateral singing)
-Yerevan
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 460 posts, RR: 0 Reply 168, posted (5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7009 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 163): Moon? Not in my lifetime I am afraid.
On the other hand, since we are talking about far and away places (I am not including all and every city that has been rumored/mentioned so far like HAV, SFO, MIA, Lima Peru...); my list;
-Reykjavik
-Tenerife
-Seattle or Vancouver
-Las Vegas or Phoenix
-San Juan, PR or San Jose, Costa Rica or Montevideo (after yesterdays bilateral singing)
-Yerevan
I really can't see SJU or MVD...unless they do a tag from another city (and TK likes them very much). For instance, they could do a IST-GIG-MVD the way they do IST-GRU-EZE (or even swap the final destination, IST-GIG-EZE and IST-GRU-MVD - since GRU and EZE supposedly are stronger markets than GIG and MVD respectively). Not even BA or IB can't make them work. SJO is another thing, combined with HAV or something like that could make some sense I guess.
YVR makes more sense to me than SEA, unless TK also wants to connect IST with Boeing's factory. With EK flying already to SEA, and the problems that EK/EY/QR have to get more landing rights in Canada, TK could take advantage of that situation.
As for the Canary Islands, I would be curious whether they choose TFN, TFS or LPA to fly to (I would discard TFS which is heavily holiday orientated just to begin with).
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 170, posted (5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6983 times:
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 169): Excellent! Thanks. So you can see many stands from Terminal 2? Any views of the runways?
with terminal 2 I assume you mean the International Terminal and yes, all gates starting from 201 until 226 have a great window-view towards either the two parallel runways or RWY05.
there is however a great spot which is quite famous among the locals - the FlyInn shoppingmall. if you have a little bit more time than this would be the place to go, but a taxi ride is necessary to get there. pictures like these are taken from this mall:
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 174, posted (5 months 1 week ago) and read 6761 times:
Quoting stylo777 (Reply 173): I assume that FRA and MUC are rather connection points than the real O/D of KBL flights.
As far as TK is concerned its O&D.
Also if you look at the Kabul schedule, I doubt many people are going much anywhere beyond Europe the same day. Connecting flights arrive back in FRA at 1950, LHR 2100, MUC 2120 etc, all rather late.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
YVR and SEA can be included in a triangle flight from IST such as IST-YVR-SEA-IST whereby on YVR SEA segment both IST SEA and YVR IST pax can be flown. This may be a good market entry for a while before each destination turns into a terminator flight.
YVR is the second largest airport in Canada after YYZ and has huge potential for TK in terms of transit pax for IST and beyond. I can even see IST YYC YVR YYC IST as YYC also has strong demand to Middle East, India, North Africa, CIS etc. LH pulled out from YYC earlier in 2012 so there is also a gap where BA is considering a second daily to LHR but has issues with slots at LHR.
B787 would be ideal for TK to fly these type of routes !!!
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 176, posted (5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6384 times:
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 175): YVR and SEA can be included in a triangle flight from IST such as IST-YVR-SEA-IST whereby on YVR SEA segment both IST SEA and YVR IST pax can be flown. This may be a good market entry for a while before each destination turns into a terminator flight.
quite difficult due to US visa regulations. all passengers bound for Canada would be required to hold an US visa.
Without knowng the exact range figures I would guess yes, it is possible, but I would also assume that there is not such a big market to support this flight yet. As far as I know EK does DXB-LAX/IAH also with 77W which are a little longer than IST-EZE
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 186, posted (5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5664 times:
Quoting HUYfan (Reply 178): Any data for their new(ish) DAMMAM flights? How are they performing, and what is the make up of top connecting destinations?
The route is too new to have a years of data. However in general Saudi Arabia is a strong market for TK, and should generate broad connections across Europe. As bonus being close to ARAMCO facilities, the flights might also generate US traffic.
No: it's extremely expensive. Normally airlines use it for demand analysis purposes, etc. So competitors, for example, would know all this about TK. If you have access to it, you can show it - I don't really see the issue given it's not particularly confidental.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
This is the point I was mentioning. It is not something ordinary you can find those datas very easily. Non of the airlines (or any company) would like to publish their pax. numbers etc. so detalied. Why do you insist I don't get, sorry.
TK competitor already have this info, as TK does the information on its competitors as well, so its not an issue of publishing as its already known.
Info is very common to help gauge market share, loads, average fares, down to even which individual travel agent sell what tickets.
Additionally if its a domestic US airline or route - such information is already published monthly by the DOT on its website in downloadable excel files which can used by anyone with a internet connection.
So hardly a "secret".
Oh if you want EK info, start a thread. Maybe someone will contribute.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TK competitor already have this info, as TK does the information on its competitors as well, so its not an issue of publishing as its already known.
Info is very common to help gauge market share, loads, average fares, down to even which individual travel agent sell what tickets.
Additionally if its a domestic US airline or route - such information is already published monthly by the DOT on its website in downloadable excel files which can used by anyone with a internet connection.
So hardly a "secret".
Oh if you want EK info, start a thread. Maybe someone will contribute.
I deleted my text following this.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 194): Additionally if its a domestic US airline or route - such information is already published monthly by the DOT on its website in downloadable excel files which can used by anyone with a internet connection.
And good it is too for a service that's free-of-charge, offering as it does PDEW, average one-way fares, market share of leader, etc, etc.
[Edited 2012-12-19 11:53:32]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 197, posted (5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5480 times:
Add in BSP, QSI data as well.
As far as accuracy feel free to doubt it, however I have no such concerns.
Posted info is simply headline numbers with individual pax count details, individual fare pricing, etc stripped away. Its quite accurate.
I'd love to compare what you feel is inaccurate though.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
CEO Temel Kotil told ATW that 300 destinations by 2015 “will be the absolute limit. More will be not possible. We will also increase frequencies throughout our network.” He expects to add 20 to 25 new destinations per year.
Looking ahead, Kotil said, “In 2013, we face a lack of five long-haul aircraft” and is “talking with lessors regarding additional Airbus A330s or Boeing 777s.”
Again signs of poor planning as they need to close gaps in the near future. But mentioning 300 destinations as a preliminary limit shows the ambitions of TK after the new airport opens...
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 201, posted (5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5102 times:
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 200): Looking ahead, Kotil said, “In 2013, we face a lack of five long-haul aircraft” and is “talking with lessors regarding additional Airbus A330s or Boeing 777s.”
Again signs of poor planning as they need to close gaps in the near future.
Not too bad IMHO.
There are bunch of 332s and few 333/77W on the market. It is OK to be a bit ambitious and lack five frames than ordering too many planes and having to park them in the dessert.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 204, posted (5 months 10 hours ago) and read 4532 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 168): YVR makes more sense to me than SEA, unless TK also wants to connect IST with Boeing's factory. With EK flying already to SEA, and the problems that EK/EY/QR have to get more landing rights in Canada, TK could take advantage of that situation.
Keep in mind that the Turkish Air Force also sends people over to Boeing all the time for training, for AWACs and other military aircraft. In fact, I see their AWACs flying over my house, and South Center shopping mall from time to time.
The Seattle-Europe routings are slightly out of synch with what the real demand is. That, in itself, would not be that big of a deal, except many of the flights are using smaller planes to the gateways/hubs, compared to several years ago. YVR could use an extra Europe flight, too, though not on the level as SEA. It's one thing when you have an individual going on a business trip, but when you have families going, the price point out of SEA is cheaper, and you have a lot of B.C. people coming down here on the bus, to save money.
Then you have PDX and ANC which currently have no Europe trips, so there is a certain amount of dependency on SEA, too. As a result, with the sume of all this, there are lots of "unexpected" involuntary denied boardings in SEA DOMESTIC flights(on all carriers), and often not much protection to get them out.
SEA-MUC would be the ideal choice, given the "sum of the parts", but IST on TK would also be quite useful in the "big picture".
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 206, posted (5 months 10 hours ago) and read 4501 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 205): What happened to PDX-AMS, or Condor's ANC flights in summers?
Condor is supposed to be having the ANC trip start up in the summer, from what I understand. But not now. Still we have a lot of people going ANC at all times of the year to/from Poland(maritime and construction workers) and the Gambia(diaspora travel---believe it or not, a fair amount of Gambians living in Alaska). Condor did come here for this past summer, but not sure if they will return to SEA in 2013.
As for PDX-AMS, I had to look, and sure enough, it is there. Was not aware of this. Since LH dropped the Frankfurt service, I didn't bothered to even look at PDX as an connection option. Thanks for pointing this out. All I remember is once LH dropped the flight, many people started coming up here.
Additionally, SAS dropped SEA-CPH a couple of years ago, and Icelandair effectively replaced it with SEA-KEF, but using a smaller 757 as opposed to the A340 used by SK......and the bulk were absorbed into the other flights, which also is a factor in the SEA scenerio.
I know that is a shame, I took that 767 flights many years ago when I used to live in Seattle.
I am interested since I lived many years both near ANC and SEA.
My flight memory tells me, to date; I have 73 flights to SEA, 68 flights to ANC.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 212, posted (4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3817 times:
Did anyone see this before? Apparently Philippine Airlines is planning to start MNL-IST on August 5th, 2013, 3 times weekly. TK is to place its code on the route. So much for TK's own IST-MNL (at least for now)?
viasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1813 posts, RR: 7 Reply 218, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3286 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 211): Any news regarding SKY AIRLINES? Heard rumors that they will be bankrupt soon...
That could happen very soon. They returned two Airbus A320-200s and three Boeing 737-800s to the lessor and closed its german sister carrier German Sky Airlines with two Boeing 737-800s.
The current fleet is:
1x Airbus A320-200 (opf AnadoluJet)
1x Airbus A321-200 (stored?, no flights tracked by Flightradar/Libhomeradar)
4x Boeing 737-400 (only three in operation?)
2x Boeing 737-900
Talha Görgülü (the owner of Kayi Group) has already sold its Adam&Eve Hotel in Belek. So it seems that there were financial problems by the whole company (Kayi Group).
I just know, that they have ordered 10 + 5 Bombardier CS300. At the moment, they have 15 aircraft in fleet. Maybe enough if they could anonce new routes.
I analyse today's flights of KK.
TC-ETV A321 flown last 10/12/12
TC-ETJ A321 had ENGTEST Flight 12/12/12
TC-ATK A320 (25/12/12) flown last KK45 (BJV-IST)
TC-ATO A321, TC-ATB A321 and TC-ETH A321 positioned from TLV (?) to IST and AYT by 23/12/12 and 24/12/12.
TC-ATL A320 is no data available
TC-ETF A321 flow KK847 (what ist that for a route?) 25/12/12
Other aircraft, TC-ATD (A319), TC-ATE, TC-ATF, TC-ATH, TC-ETM, TC-ETN (all A321), TC.ATJ and TC-ATM (A320) has flown today.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 221, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 220): Yes the following airlines are expected to reinstate flights from ESB to their respective hubs; BA to LHR, AF to CDG, LX to ZRH and KL to AMS.
Rumors or I missed the news again. Finally ESB getting some attention. How is AnadoluJet doing? I remember some European cities discontinued. What is the TK presence at ESB in terms of European service?
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 220): Last but not least TK should consider ESB JFK at least thrice weekly to start with that will also help them to attract some transit pax to/from ESB
It would be nice to know if JFK is the best US destination out of ESB. Maybe LAXintl have this info???
If there was to be a Long Distance flight out of ESB which would be the best destination in terms of profits?? US or Asia.
Thanks.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2007, 18 posts, 
From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, 
From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 311 posts, 
From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5185 posts, 
From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, 
From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 384 posts, 
From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1249 posts, 
From Mongolia, joined Feb 2010, 1 posts, 
From Portugal, joined Jan 2007, 100 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, 
From Spain, joined Feb 2007, 84 posts, 
From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 207 posts, 
From Italy, joined Aug 2006, 6 posts, 
I have one big problem with TK and need your help guys...
From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 110 posts, 
From Mexico, joined Mar 2007, 108 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18830 posts, 
From Malaysia, joined Jan 2005, 200 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 124 posts,