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Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights  
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9866 times:

Hawaiian Airlines announced today that they will add 3 weekly flights from HNL to SYD for the busy April-May travel period in 2013. The new flights will operate on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays from HNL and the return flights from SYD will operate on Thursdays, Saturdays, and Mondays. The new flights will be operated with the A330-200 Aircraft. These new flights are in addition to HA's regularly scheduled daily flights to SYD.
More here:

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1763413&highlight=


On a related note, Hawaiian inaugurated service this week from HNL to BNE. These flights operate 3 times weekly using the 767-300.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1762280&highlight=

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1763412&highlight=

Aloha,
HALFA


Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7396 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

Damn HA is on one hell of a roll here! Good to see someone expanding well. I hope this expansion has high dividends for HA.


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1935 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9507 times:

Where does HA keep finding airplanes to fly these routes?! I get that they are getting a new A330, but it seems like one hiccup on one plane and the domino effect could cripple things.

[Edited 2012-12-01 00:32:40]


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
Where does HA keep finding airplanes to fly these routes?

HA is taking delivery of 5 new A330's in 2013. This was quoted in the press release: “Demand for our service on the Sydney route is especially strong during this period, so we are taking advantage of the delivery of additional A330 aircraft to increase our capacity when and where it’s needed most,” said Peter Ingram, Hawaiian’s executive vice president and chief commercial officer.
New service to AKL will commence in March, 2013 and I would expect more routes to be announced soon.

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5049 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9094 times:

Sounds like HA is quite successful Down Under, I see MEL in the cards soon if they're filling SYD 10x a week.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1713 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7733 times:

Looking at a globe it seems as though HA could offer great one stop service Australia/New Zealand and area to most of the US. What kind of CASM can they offer versus nonstop? A bonus, as with Iceland, could be stopover rights.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7555 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling

User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

I wonder if HA's success is tied to the fact that its premium cabin is configured as US domestic first class, roughly comparable to premium economy (W) class on most intercontinental carriers.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlinepetrhsr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6796 times:

Qantas has essentially conceded HNL to Jetstar (good ol' OneStar strikes again!), which sends an A330 five times a week. QF hauls an ancient 763 across from SYD and return three days a week. The business cabin has the old "Dreamtime" seats, which left the rest of the international fleet many years ago. Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

So good on HA. They have clearly pitched their product to compete with JetStar, and seem to be doing quite well. If only they could sort-out their timetable to offer better connections, I'd fly them all the way through from SYD to JFK.


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6725 times:

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 7):
I wonder if HA's success is tied to the fact that its premium cabin is configured as US domestic first class, roughly comparable to premium economy (W) class on most intercontinental carriers.

I would say that HA's success on the SYD route could be attributed to several things including the following:
More Australians can afford Hawaiian vacations now as their dollar is worth more than ours, and Australians are really taking advantage of it. They are travelling to Hawaii in record numbers now.
HA offers complimentary meals, beer and wine in all cabins as well as a generous checked baggage allowance (2 pieces @23kg per person) and HA's main competitor on the route (Jetstar) does not.
HA offers full mileage credit in all cabins on all fares for members of HA's frequent flyer program, Hawaiian Miles. Jetstar does not.
HA offers same carrier connections to 11 cities on the US Mainland including LAS and JFK, destinations which have been traditionally popular with Australians. Again, Jetstar does not.
Qantas also flies between SYD and HNL but only flies the route 3 times per week.

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2181 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5999 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling

Are you comparing QF in Australia to HA in Hawaii or QF vs. JQ vs. HA on the Hawaii-Australia corridor?

If its the former, they are completely different scenarios. HA is investing wisely in expanding its long-haul network outside of the mainland US given the explosion of the US-Hawaii market over recent years on LCCs and narrow-body planes.

If it's the latter, then i still struggle to see what's the point. It's a high-volume, low-yield market, better suited for JQ, especially since its within A330 range, rather than be flown on QF metal.

Quoting petrhsr (Reply 8):
Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

It's the same with legacy US carriers. Flights to Hawaii can parallel, if not exceed, international long-haul flights in duration, yet the product is severely different in all cabins. It makes total sense to me.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 442 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

HA also started BNE last week and have already added 18 supplementary flights from March to May.

article below

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...aiian/story-e6frg95x-1226526904914



tourismman
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Sounds like HA is quite successful Down Under, I see MEL in the cards soon if they're filling SYD 10x a week.

I'd love to say I agree but with JQ commencing MEL-HNL non-stop again in Dec, I don't see the market for 2 carriers on the route.


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 12):
I'd love to say I agree but with JQ commencing MEL-HNL non-stop again in Dec, I don't see the market for 2 carriers on the route.

Just because JQ is first doesn't mean they will last.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

Woo Hoo! This means our layovers may be a bit longer than the current ones. It would be nice to have a full day in SYD to see the sights.  

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlinerjm717 From Australia, joined May 2000, 87 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

Quoting HALFA (Reply 9):
as well as a generous checked baggage allowance (2 pieces @23kg per person) and HA's main competitor on the route (Jetstar) does not.

Things are always fluid in this business, but for now the HA baggage allowance is still 2x32Kg per person ex Australia - even more of an advantage over the others.

R


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling
Quoting petrhsr (Reply 8):
Qantas has essentially conceded HNL to Jetstar (good ol' OneStar strikes again!), which sends an A330 five times a week. QF hauls an ancient 763 across from SYD and return three days a week. The business cabin has the old "Dreamtime" seats, which left the rest of the international fleet many years ago. Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

The first comment is correct.

The second comment partially reflects the appalling thinking within Qantas.

Qantas struggles with its Premium cabin SYD-HNL for the following reasons:

1. It prices it at near LAX levels, but with a 763 recliner seat, and competes against its own Jetstar subsidiary which offers similar seats and identical Qantas frequent flyer miles and status accrual for $2700 return instead of $6300 on Qantas.

2. Qantas' Department of Union-Bashing Dogma decided that Australians should have an LCC staffed by cheap Asian cabin crew on their SYD-HNL flights, to be operated by Jetstar.

Jetstar cannibalises Qantas (see above) but is outclassed by the full legacy product on Hawaiian, which is why in 18 months Hawaiian will have climbed from 3 x 763 services per week to Australia to 3x 763 PLUS 10 x A330. While Jetstar hasn't increased at all ex-SYD, and if Jetstar makes Melbourne work we will presumably see Hawaiian drive them out of that market.

By the way, try getting a points redemption in Business Class on Qantas SYD-HNL. The above poster is dreaming. I've found one in two years of looking.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):

Honestly I dont know why I bother replying to you Koruman.

Maybe the reason they charge at that is a basic economic principle of Supply and Demand. QF can keep the fares high because the seats are being filled at that price (why you cant get redemption seats). Extra frequencies only increases supply (and demand... a little) so prices will drop.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Yes Trueman, but 80% of the Business Class seats that the Qantas group sells to HNL each week sell for less than $3000 return, because they are on Jetstar, but with Business Class QF frequent flyer accrual.

Meanwhile Hawaiian offers a similar Business Class but with superior IFE, catering and without a need to buy a "bundle" to earn miles and status. And whereas QF charges $6300 return, and Jetstar $2700 return, Hawaiian generally pitches around $4200 return. So their yields and volumes both beat Qantas.

It's pretty special how Qantas has cannibalised itself, and driven its own yields below the competitor!

Meanwhile, across the Tasman Air NZ has responded to identical Hawaiian entry and competition by:

1) making Business a flat-bed product, at A$4000 return.
2) adding Premium Economy, similar to HA/JQ/QF business class, but at $2400 return.
3) making economy an unbundled product, at a lower fare.

All of which seems more lucid than Qantas demanding double Jetstar's fare levels, on an aircraft with an obsolete product.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 18):
All of which seems more lucid than Qantas demanding double Jetstar's fare levels, on an aircraft with an obsolete product.

  

And it seems a perfect place to send 747-400s a few times a week that are excess capacity? Business (even if its not the new sky bed but the old lie flat at an angle, ) Premium economy - price at HA's business level and take that business...and lots and lots of economy taking advantage of the big birds low CASM. it doesn't need to be daily.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3207 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

that being said they could also just improve the jetstar offering.

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Lots of stuff happening on this route at the moment. It looks like QF will be out of international 767s by the end of March, making for pretty coincidental timing overall, especially with JQ also commencing nonstop MEL-HNL in a couple of weeks.

It's hard to know what to expect. For all that I think the route must have some financial value to QF given they've kept it while cutting so many others, they don't seem to be very well placed to compete. They either have to go up to an A332 with lots more J capacity, up to an A333 with lots more Y capacity or down to a domestic 767 with a product that is beaten by the 25% of JQ's fleet with the new seats/AVOD.

It should also be pointed out that QF/JQ go 14 weekly to HNL through April (11 from SYD, 3 from MEL) so will still have more flights and capacity overall.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):

1. The market prices the services, not QF. While the product isn't particularly good by QF standards, it's still the best in this market and will still attract the high end Australian based traffic which is headed to any one of the numerous extremely high end resorts/hotels that Hawaii boasts.

Obviously the pricing isn't an issue though, because the route must be financially positive otherwise it would have been passed over to JQ years ago. If the plane is full of passengers paying these very high fares then it'll be very profitable, if it's full of passengers burning points then it must be an efficient way for QF to reduce points liabilities. QF has literally no other reason to keep this route if it's not making money for them in some way (unlike JFK perhaps, which could be seen as part of a competitive strategy for retaining corporate contracts that also spend elsewhere in the network).

2. JQ's crews on SYD-HNL are Australian based, so are covered by Australian contracts and labour laws. I imagine that it's actually HA who pays their crews the least on this route.

HA hasn't driven anyone out of the market, and certainly won't any time soon. QF/JQ have actually grown a little over the past 2 years, and will add about 20% to their capacity in a couple of weeks with MEL-HNL. HA has expanded on the back of a strong AUD which has thrown this market wide open -- if our dollar halved in value tomorrow, so too would their services. QF/JQ will be far better protected financially than HA if/when the AUD drops again, and won't be anywhere near as hardly hit.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
. The market prices the services, not QF. While the product isn't particularly good by QF standards, it's still the best in this market and will still attract the high end Australian based traffic which is headed to any one of the numerous extremely high end resorts/hotels that Hawaii boasts.

I buy a lot of Brisbane to Honolulu Business Class tickets each year - I already have 8 bookings for this year. My work has regular meetings there, and I have a holiday home on Maui.

In 2011 I had to cut short a trip on Air NZ and bought a Jetstar Business Class, and on one other trip that year flew Qantas Business Class, which was substantially inferior to the Jetstar offering. The only superior things on Qantas were better recline - although far from lie-flat - and the $2 pyjamas. But this at least earned me elite status on Qantas.

I'm now finding that during times of the year when Air NZ operates the 767, I am buying tickets on Hawaiian, and shortly they will be for non-stop services from Brisbane. And when Air NZ uses the 777, it clearly has the best (lie-flat bed) product on the market and I buy that.

There probably aren't many customers out there who buy more than 8 Business Class tickets per year from Australia to Hawaii, and this has left me with elite status with Qantas and Virgin and Air NZ and Hawaiian Airlines currently! And Qantas' self-cannibalisation by Jetstar and price-gouging for a lousy product on Qantas itself has ensured that Hawaiian and Air New Zealand get my business.


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
It looks like QF will be out of international 767s by the end of March,

The four internationally configured 767s are being refreshed with the QStreaming product, however the sub-fleet will still exist. OGR, internationally-configured, is online with the refreshed product. QStreaming is only activated on domestic flights at this stage.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 13):
Just because JQ is first doesn't mean they will last.

Time will tell how JQ go on the MEL-HNL sector this time around. A different environment than last time yes, but it will be interesting to watch.

HA have enough on their plate with SYD, BNE and AKL at this stage.

[Edited 2012-12-03 00:35:00]

25 BNE : The reason the route Australia to HNL is going so well is because of the strength of the high Australian dollar. If the dollar every drops below 1 to
26 koruman : BNE Why shouldn't BNE-HNL be viable? Dollar parity is now well-established, and if you spend more than 5 nights in a 4 or 5 star hotel it is now cheap
27 smi0006 : I know that HA gets a strong flow of pax out of MEL from DJ. What is the nature of their agreement these days?
28 qf002 : You didn't notice the extra 20" of pitch? The better food, wines, second meal (or snack or whatever they do on this flight) etc? But it is irrelevant
29 koruman : QF002 Qantas Business Class to Honolulu has inferior catering and IFE compared with Hawaiian Airlines, although the seat is similar. Qantas is superio
30 Ditzyboy : I just wanted to mention, HALFA, that you have nailed it in your summation of HA's success in Sydney. Although HA does have the advantage of same-car
31 rjm717 : The big advantages BNE has are inbound timing and a lack of curfew. HA now has the ability to connect passengers from HNL to MEL/HBA/ADL/PER and nort
32 Flyingsottsman : Ok HA increasing SYD and upgrading to an A330, commenced services to BNE, commmenced or commencing services to AKL which leaves MEL theonly large city
33 msp747 : With this international expansion underway at HA, are they planning on holding onto their 767's a little longer now? I thought they were being phased
34 Viscount724 : I expect QF's large frequent flyer base must be a significant factor in choice of carrier, regardless of other service aspects.
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