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DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3359 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 38558 times:

The London Sunday Times is reporting today that Delta has made a secret approach to Singapore Airlines to by out their 49% stake in Virgin. "Aviation sources said that the two sides were back in negotiations but it was early days yet"
Singapore paid £600m for its stake back in 1999, both side declined to comment to the newspaper.

If that happened it would give SkyTeam a much larger presence at Heathrow.

(No link to article as it is pay to view)


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
177 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 38587 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
If that happened it would give SkyTeam a much larger presence at Heathrow.

And why is that? I seemed to have missed VA being an active and significant member of Star.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 38554 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):

If DL/AF were to buy into VS it would mean a big codeshare....and very likely VS would move into the DL/AF/KL/AZ ATI/JV.

question, could delta buy the 49%? wouldn't AF/KL have to do it?



yep.
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 38429 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
question, could delta buy the 49%? wouldn't AF/KL have to do it?

How was SQ able to buy it in the first place then?


User currently offlinetheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38292 times:

The article also says that AF/KLM may look to take a stake in the 51% that is not currently owned by SQ.

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38279 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
question, could delta buy the 49%? wouldn't AF/KL have to do it?

AF/KL, according to the article would buy a portion of the remaining 51%, with Branson perhaps holding on to some minor stake, which would essentially keep the airline under European control (51%).


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38239 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
question, could delta buy the 49%? wouldn't AF/KL have to do it?

UK (and now EU) airline ownership rules allow for 49% foreign (non-EU) investment. So 49% DL, 51% AF/KL would be allowed.


User currently offlineota1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38179 times:
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With SQ have changed it's strategy towards Virgin branded airlines lately (close alliance with and 10% in Virgin Australia and the code share agreement with Virgin America just announced last week) in addition to VS's latest developments (proposesed alliance membership, shorthaul flights, having reached a 4 Star ranking with SkyTrax again, etc.) I'm not too sure SQ is still looking to sell it's shareholing in Virgin Atlantic.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38088 times:

I'd be interested to see what DL/AF's attitude towards the leisure operations at LGW/MAN/GLA would be if together they took control of VS. For DL/AF it's surely about LHR whereas the leisure operations seem to revolve around Virgin Holidays. Keep them so long as they are profitable? Seperate and dispose? Wasn't there a report late last year, possibly from The Sunday Times, that VS could be split into two?

(Obviously if Richard Branson retains a majority share in VS then the future of the leisure operations is probably far more 'secure')



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 38078 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
If that happened it would give SkyTeam a much larger presence at Heathrow.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
If DL/AF were to buy into VS it would mean a big codeshare....and very likely VS would move into the DL/AF/KL/AZ ATI/JV.

SQ's biggest mistake was the terms and conditions attached to their 49% stake. Sir Richard Branson owns 51% via his offshore trusts and as his stake is larger than SQ's he gets to do what he wants when he wants and how he wants. All that the 49% stake gives is 49% of any profits that are earnt.

This is what makes the 49% stake unattractive to SQ and potentially unattractive to anyone else. The best that can be said of it is that it might provide a regular income stream. I'm sure however that if DL is as well managed as its executives consider it is they can find far better things to do with the money.


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 37822 times:

I think the idea of a DL/AF/KL acquiring VS is fascinating, but DL/AF/KL/AZ/VS should determine their chances of getting approval for a JV before making an investment. I don't see any value in the partnership otherwise. Such an acquisition would be huge for DL given its current debt and pension obligations; it cannot afford to make a mistake. Given this, I question whether adding the VS flights to the scope of the JV would really enable it go against AA and BA at JFK. It would look good, yes, but in my mind, the VS brand seems to have lost a bit of its shine over the past decade and does not seem to be as popular with corporate customers. In that case, I'm not sure adding VS to the scope of the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV would necessarily add much in terms of market share or leverage. I would hope DL/AF/KL would seriously crunch the numbers on this one and weigh the risks before making a decision.

I did notice that The Times named Delta "Americas largest airline". Interesting. I thought that moniker was supposed to belong to United.


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 37432 times:

Is Branson going to give up control of his pride and joy, VS? I dont think so. I dont think that 51% is going anywhere but remaining with Branson and the Virgin Group.

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 36361 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
I did notice that The Times named Delta "Americas largest airline". Interesting. I thought that moniker was supposed to belong to United.

Perhaps he meant after DL 'acquired' (or would that be 'merged with'? ) VS.

At the moment, UA is larger than DL.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 34327 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):

It depends on what metric is used for measurement I think.

UA was larger by every metric right after merging with CO, but they have shrunk some during integration.

Last I saw a couple of months ago, DL was larger in some metric areas, but I don't remember which.


User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 34244 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):

Well, there are multiple ways an airline could be the world's largest. For example, DL still carry's more passengers than UA does, they also have a larger fleet. But UA has more passenger-kilometer's flown.

It is very hard to say who is the world's largest airline, there are multiple different ways that could be twisted.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 34144 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):
Perhaps he meant after DL 'acquired' (or would that be 'merged with'?&nbsp Wink VS.

At the moment, UA is larger than DL.

I am not sure this is technically possible given all of the rules associated to ownership.
If VS would become a US based airline then it would be subject to all of the US bi-laterals and frankly that would kill VS.
It is more likely that DL would get the 49% and then AF-KL would get a few more % giving the alliance the ability to make all decisions, but VS would remain a EU based airline.

My big question is how does this really help DL? (besides the fact of keeping VS out of *A, which would be big for LHR fliers)

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
I did notice that The Times named Delta "Americas largest airline". Interesting. I thought that moniker was supposed to belong to United.

But United isn't just the largest in the US, but the world (based on the most widely recognized metric, but it is argument that is never over)... So it just goes to prove that these reporters are asked to write on subjects they are not experts in.


User currently offlined93 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 33904 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):

It's simple really. VA joining Skyteam would increase the amount of Skyteam traffic at LHR. It's like math for airports.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 33776 times:

I guess it would make sense for both carriers on some levels, although it seems not to on others.

To start with the obvious, Virgin's pool of LHR slots is - to be sure - quite valuable, and the combination of Delta and Virgin would be a formidable #2 competitor in the U.S.-LHR market (albeit still dramatically far behind AA/BA). Coordinating their networks would allow the two carriers to optimize schedules in overlapping markets - JFK/BOS-LHR - and boost Delta's competitiveness in several important U.S. markets where LHR is a big local market (MIA and LAX). And, of course, Virgin's beyond-LHR connectivity to India/Mid East/Africa, plus soon several domestic and European/Near East markets, wouldn't hurt, either. For Virgin, connectivity from Delta - particularly over JFK - would open up a far larger network in the U.S. than they have ever had access to before, which could only help their strategically critical Atlantic network.

I think the value and logic for Virgin is obvious. On the other hand, though, I do question how much value this would really generate for Delta. I suppose if they are really that eager to get into the LHR market in a big way, buying into it via Virgin would probably be their best (only) option. Nonetheless, I am not sure if putting millions into an airline with a somewhat questionable long-term strategic direction would be such a smart investment. Plus, in terms of connectivity, only a certain portion of Virgin's U.S. network (JFK, BOS, MIA, LAX, possibly MCO and EWR) would be substantially relevant to Delta's network, while the rest of it (ORD, SFO, LAS, IAD, etc.) would be somewhat less relevant to the combined pair. As for connectivity over LHR, Virgin adds absolutely nothing that Delta doesn't already have via Air France and/or KLM - in fact in just about every beyond-LHR market, Air France and/or KLM already offers more and/or better connectivity than Virgin would or could.

Interesting ...


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 33678 times:

So, DL buys SG's 49% and AF/KL buys whatever SRB allows from the other 51%, if not the whole kit. It'll be a JV between DL and AF/KL/AZ/VS


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 33256 times:

Quoting d93 (Reply 16):
It's simple really. VA joining Skyteam would increase the amount of Skyteam traffic at LHR. It's like math for airports.

No kidding, but SQ owning VS hasn't gotten them into Star. So it follows that just because DL bought a share, they're not going to jump into Sky.


User currently offlineDeltalaw From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 32770 times:

DL has become more aggressive recently with investment in foreign airlines (AM and G3). Those examples are much smaller stakes though...purchasing 49% of VS would be a huge capital outlay. I wonder what percentage of their 600 million SQ plans on trying to get back?

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 32509 times:

I'll believe it when I see it (not saying that in a skeptical way, but I know the reality behind most Delta rumors.) I do have a question though, would DL owning 49% and AF/KL owning 2+%, giving them at least 51%, allow them to call most of the shots? How much control would DL/AF/KL have?

There has to be assurances, I don't think DL is going to blow, what, 600mil pounds and just "hope" they'll get in a JV. Plus, what would be the regulatory hurdles, if there are any?

I'm cautious to say this would be very good news. Obviously, DL and partners can't be #1 to LHR with BA dominating the scene, but there is nothing wrong with being a strong (even if distant) #2... LHR is a very coveted market



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 32337 times:

As US carriers retake their rightful place at the very top of the global commercial aviation hierarchy, expect to see more proposals like this one.

A tie-up with VS makes good sense for Delta. Why? As the AA/BA JV cooperation deepens, and new United leverages its larger size to maximize financial upside on Heathrow flying, Delta is at risk on being an "odd man out" with a subpar number of frequencies and gateways to the number 1 European destination from the United States. The marketplace has increasingly made clear that going forward, victory in chasing the all-important premium traffic will primarily be had by carriers that offer a comprehensive "all in one" solution for flying to/from a given region of the world. Delta offers great service levels to continental Europe, but it stands to lose corporate contracts if it's not more competitive to the UK, and this is a way to get there.

And FWIW, should this tie-up occur, no one should expect either DL or VS to maintain the same patterns of USA-LHR flying that they offer today. I'd expect BOTH carriers to aggressively redeploy various fleet types to expand the number of US cities served from LHR.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 32153 times:

For DL and VS this would be a deal that would allow them to link-up and really take the competition to AA/BA (would still be market leader) and UA/AC.

In the core London-NY market the two carriers would be able to offer six flights a day, which gicen BA/AA are effectively running a LHR-JFK shuttle, and UA has a 5xDaily LHR-EWR service would be a key move. It would also strengthen massively SkyTeam in London.

VS/DL would serve BOS, JFK, EWR, IAD, MIA, ORD, DTW, MSP, ATL, SFO, LAX and YVR from LHR, with LAS and MCO from LGW. WHilst LHR would be key to a deal, a JV would help the LGW ops too. I don't think that it was coincidence that the AA/BA ATI deal saw BA go from 5xWeekly to Daily on the LGW-TPA route.

In a wider sense, a DL/VS tie-up would really strengthen SkyTeam in London, which given it's a huge O&D market would be a bit of a coup. AF/KL have the European feed tied up through CDG and AMS, but in terms of point-pount London would be a market that SkyTeam would get a much greater exposure to.

What's the benefit for VS? It would allow it to play the competition card, because with SkyTeam being the weakest alliance in the London market VS could legitimately say that it didn't want to join an alliance, but the way the aviation market is going standing alon e wasn't an option so it plans to join up with SkyTeam to take the fight to BA/AA (and the rest of oneworld) and Star Alliance, which it must be said has a pretty big LHR presence on international (which lets face it, despite the pending VS venture into UK domestic, is still where VS makes it bread and butter).



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 31554 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):

I do not think the network is the main motivating factor behind this acquisition. Virgin's network is secondary (perhaps even meaningless). The LHR slots is where the real value is in this transaction and is probably the main reason for DL exploring this opportunity.

For example, let's assume the SFO-LHR route is a money loser. The new owners could easily eliminate the route and associated costs (ie. labor, fuel, etc.) to stop the loss. Then they could route all passengers over another hub (which Virgin could not do on their own), while keeping the underlying AND appreciating asset - the LHR slot.

The key to this transaction is whether DL can get the 49% share at a reasonable price.


25 UALWN : Are you saying that the US carriers have some kind of birth right to be at the very top of the global commercial aviation hierarchy? That's what "rig
26 jfklganyc : What a ridiculous statement. Why is our rightful place at the top of aviation? What gave us that right and what have we done to keep it? Prefect outs
27 Post contains links fcogafa : The Telegraph also has a quite damning article on this saying that talk is that VIR has lost its way and is making losses... http://www.telegraph.co.u
28 brilondon : If DL buys 49% of VA, that doesn't mean that they would make it a US based carrier as per the EU foreign ownership rules, they would have more access
29 Post contains images bomber996 : Even as an American, I think this statement is extremely naive. Even though the US is arguably the largest aviation market in the world, our Legacy c
30 avek00 : Slots at any airport are meaningless unless they are leveraged to build a strong network. VS and DL, acting alone, are both unable to build the compr
31 n515cr : Guess it's not that secret, eh?
32 Post contains images mayor : Not any more, IF true
33 ual777uk : Whose kidding who here. Hell will freeze over before SRB gives up his controlling stake in VS. DL can buy 49% if they want but dictating the future of
34 commavia : I doubt we would see much wholesale shifting like that. Part of what Virgin would bring to Delta regarding LHR would be scale and network breadth (sp
35 Post contains images PHX787 : Would some of the VS A340s be transferred to DL, then, given DL's fleet buying habits?
36 NWADTWE16 : I agree SRB would never give up control of VS..this thread is alot of speculation and really run off the rails
37 DL747400 : Regardless of what Virgin does with their A340 fleet, Delta doesn't operate the A340, never has and never will.
38 jfk777 : The only USA to LHR gateway VA and DL have in common is JFK, the VA network compliments the DL routes to LHR very nicely. DL & VA may let Virgin
39 TeamInTheSky : Hi All, Sky News just did a breaking news story that Singapore Airlines has announced/confirmed they are talking to an interested party(ies) about the
40 globalflyer : I really hope this is a reality. Personally I think that the entire Virgin brand would be a great addition to SkyTeam. VS and VA. Now as for VX, they
41 nickofatlanta : Interestingly, NW did once order the A340 although it did not take delivery of or operate the A340. I too can not see DL operating the A340.
42 Post contains links Triple7LR : Here's coverage by Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...stake-from-singapore-airlines.html sounds serious.
43 Deltal1011man : No. VS is replacing the A340 for a reason Boston......
44 FI642 : LHR access is king. I'm certain DL would love more access to it. This could all become very interesting. DL to battle the AA/BA alliance.
45 Post contains images AF185 : Hope this becomes reality!
46 Byrdluvs747 : Is that really news? SQ has been looking to offload the VS stake for years.
47 vhtje : How would this impact "the other Virgins"? I don't have any knowledge on how SRB structures his business interests - are his airline stakes all held i
48 LJ : I don't think you'll have to look at Dl solely. If DL purchases a stake in VS, it would benefit Skyteam as a whole as it can distribtute the slots Sk
49 ual777uk : Is it breaking news, Sky news are so behind the curve because............ Exactly. It might be breaking news to Sky but we all know this has been on
50 anstar : Well Delta already have a Joint Venture with Virgin Australia across the pacific.
51 flybry : Wasn't it not that long ago there were rumors DL, AF/KLM were in talks with Jet Airways of India to purchase a stake in that airline, bring it into Sk
52 qf002 : Not at all. Totally different companies with separate entries in SRB's protfolio, and no cross investment. There isn't really much overlap anyway --
53 TeamInTheSky : I am fairly positive that if DL were to purchase this stake, they would already have agreements in place for AF/KL to take a 2-3% stake as well with
54 delta2ual : I don't believe for a minute that DL would pour money into an airline unless they were guaranteed access to LHR and a SkyTeam membership. I'm sure SR
55 ual777uk : Not many people have a bigger ego in the UK than SRB and as I have stated previously there is more chance of hell freezing over than SRB giving up co
56 parapente : Quote, "Is Branson going to give up control of his pride and joy, VS? I dont think so. I dont think that 51% is going anywhere but remaining with Bran
57 davescj : I think this deal is a long way from "certain." To say the least, it will draw massive interest of regulators on both sides of the Atlantic. Virgin +
58 hiflyer : I am more inclined to think of spoiler as far as DL's move...didn't they make a run on VS before? Lay a bet they are tyring to usurp a deal that is br
59 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : All airlines make mistakes, but DL/AF/KL would have to be pretty stupid to just go ahead and buy the 49% without making prior arrangements. Companies
60 jetlanta : If you assume that SRB wants to stay in the airline business, you are assuming a LOT. He wants to exit gracefully, with a full wallet and an intact eg
61 ual777uk : How does he get a full wallet when its SQ stake that is being sold not SRBs?
62 DeltaMD90 : I think he was talking about part or all of the remaining 51%, the part that needs to be purchased in part or in full in order to control VS with the
63 Viscount724 : Most forecasts indicate that China will take over from the U.S. as the largest airline market within the next 10 years or so.
64 FlyCaledonian : That's pretty much how I see it. However, why is there an assumption that DL taking a 49% stake in VS would lead to the VS network being decimated an
65 NWADTWE16 : Branson may want to leave the industry..and ive not read anything stating their is any truth to that, but assuming it was i believe he to be a man of
66 Boysteve : Err, DL buying a stake in VS and making it part of the AF/KL/DL JV will give VS the long-term strategic direction that you talk about! Well VS &
67 jetlanta : This...
68 Post contains links jetlanta : The Economist has weighed in... http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2012/12/virgin-atlantic
69 Deltal1011man : I think your just think what you want to happen vs what will happen. If DL and AF push SRB the cash he will dump his shares faster than you can spell
70 gemuser : Exactly. Meanwhile over on this side of the planet an SRB Virgin stake is also in play, which MAYBE related. SQ & EY both want to increase their
71 ual777uk : And thats why i dont think this deal will get off the ground, because SRB will not sell his share.....has he ever said anywhere that he would???
72 Deltal1011man : two things 1) His airline keeps posting losses then he will sell or watch it die and sell the assets 2) I have yet to meet a human that can not be bo
73 AF185 : I agree, it seems SRB is slowly trying to change the business model of his airline. In the last months: -> a study of a potential deal with AF-KL
74 Deltal1011man : and the attempt at some type of a short haul network....
75 readytotaxi : Would be interested in knowing how Delta plan to finace the buyout,if they do go ahead. Are they cash rich at the moment,probably not they're an airli
76 Post contains links jetlanta : $5.1 Billion in unrestricted liquidity as of the end of September 2012. http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1742
77 Post contains links coronado : Delta has brought their debt level down from $17bn to about $11bn USD at present over the past 3-4 years, is sitting on unrestricted liquidity (cash a
78 Post contains images readytotaxi : That is really very impressive numbers.Well done Delta
79 Post contains links LHRFlyer : Sir Richard Branson said he was willing to sell down his stake in Virgin Atlantic nearly 18 months ago. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...rike-ac
80 TeamInTheSky : I wonder if this will quietly die like everything else has with Virgin (joining an alliance, prior Delta deal) or if we will hear something more on th
81 cloudboy : I am interested in hearing Virgin's response. According to what I have read anyways, this is Delta making a move, not so much Virgin seeking. As a Us
82 Post contains images PHX787 : I was making a joke
83 dlramp4life : True about the Europe Partners with KL and AF but I think DL or Skyteam in this matter whats more service to LHR which is a One World fortress and st
84 Deltal1011man : Not only does Delta have ~5B they can spend....for whatever reason airlines always seem to be able to find money for stuff like this. (same way anoth
85 Post contains links wolfpacker : Here is an article, opinion?, on the talks. http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/05/virgin-delta-airlines
86 brilondon : If this were the case, would DL be able to interline their connections at both LAX and HNL? Or am I thinking about the wrong airline.
87 nickofatlanta : I don't think any of the Virgin airlines fly to HNL.
88 United1 : Just to clarify something on DLs cash position they have around 3.2 billion in cash/short term investments the rest is a 1.9 billion dollar line of c
89 Boysteve : That CNN fortune article is the worst article I have ever read. Here is a quote; "And if you think Sir Richard Branson is going to let Delta passenger
90 deltaflyertoo : I agree! Read it this morning and was shocked. In addition to what you quote is it me or WHERE on this green planet did Branson or anyone at Virgin s
91 mayor : Well, if DL gets the 49% from SQ and AF/KL get 2-3% from Virgin, would they not be in a controlling position and could get whatever slots they wanted
92 deltaflyertoo : Is Branson really thinking about giving up his control?
93 notdownnlocked : My hope is that VS joins Skyteam and codeshares with DL and perhaps tries to get into the JV with AF/KL/DL/AZ. If DL and it's Atlantacentric Atlantans
94 delimit : Then no deal will happen. I mean, do you really think DL is silly enough to buy that 49% without acquiring some input into the direction of VS?
95 Post contains images mayor : Are you serious?? The reason that DL wants this is for the LHR slots. Why would they dismantle the prime reason that they wanted it in the first plac
96 notdownnlocked : Of course DL wants LHR slots so they can run who knows how many gazillion flights from ATL to LHR. I could easily see LHR-LAX/SFO/MIA/and many others
97 mayor : Possibly they were allowed to change one of the LGW flights to a LHR slot from ATL. Apparently, you don't like DL and/or ATL. We get that. DL has alm
98 DTWLAX : DL does not fly LHR-LAX/SFO/MIA, so the question of discontinuing them does not exist. And if you intend to say that the VS service from LHR to LAX w
99 Post contains images PIEAvantiP180 : The reason DL wants to partner up with Virgin Atlantic is that they them selves don't serve those markets. I'm sure they are hoping to include VA to
100 yellowtail : Don't forget AMEX in all this "how will they finance it" Talk. VS operates a large leisure division....just the sort of thing AMEX likes.....so AMEX m
101 DeltaMD90 : Have you seen DL's ops from CDG and AMS? Far more than a bunch of ATL-CDG/ATL-AMS flights. It's actually pretty remarkable at how many cities they se
102 Post contains images Deltal1011man : So your plan is to post something that is completely false and just run with it....k uh...BOS/MIA-LHR were cut because they lost money. Back it up wi
103 slinky09 : Simple really, the VS Clubhouse at Heathrow is way better than SIA's First lounge, it's probably the best lounge in the world. That said, I thought S
104 panamair : What a load of nonsense. If it was all about ATL, why did DL even bother to get the MIA and BOS flights started in the first place? Why is DL even bo
105 Post contains images Deltal1011man : We have been cut more to Europe than any type of growth. I'd be happy to give MIA-LHR back if we got our CPH/ARN/SVO/ATH/PRG and TLV flights back.
106 ual777uk : That we can agree on. I am just saying that i dont see SRB giving up his controlling interest. As stated above. VS Clubs Lounge at LHR is arguably th
107 aircanada014 : please dear lord lets hope this doesn't happen
108 Pu : One side consideration is that IMO the big loser with any kind of DL-VS linkup is AA. LHR is effectively another cornerstone in the big idea for AA's
109 commavia : Ridiculous indeed. Delta wouldn't dismantle Virgin's U.S. network - not only would it destroy their investment, but it would be pointless as that's t
110 AirbusA6 : Well Skyteam's LHR terminal will be the pokey T4, I presume a VS integrated with AF and DL would move there, which wouldn't be an improvement. Presum
111 Pu : Apparently there is not an AA press realease that goes unmemorised nor an AA management idea disagreed with in this tenuous bankruptcy period - but t
112 Post contains images commavia : Hahahahaha. If I'm an AA apologist for using facts to refute your false conclusions and assertions, does that make you an AA hater? When you find an
113 diverdave : Pardon my dumb question, but if Delta only wants LHR slots why didn't they buy BMI? David
114 LHRFlyer : EU ownership rules would have prevented them from acquiring all of the company and even if they could have bought bmi it would have been too big a li
115 DeltaMD90 : While I don't think DL would "defeat AA at LHR" how can you not agree it's a blow to them? Just like a carrier adding 20 flights to DFW, it won't def
116 Pu : I DID offer an original point: VS linked with DL weakens AA most of all. ...versus the standard reply copied straight from AA.com press realeases. AP
117 commavia : Would it have an impact? Sure. But I was responding to two specific comments. First, it was stated that "the big loser with any kind of DL-VS linkup"
118 LAXdude1023 : Dude, you are one to talk. Dont be such a drama queen. This is hardly crippling to AA/BA. Good for DL. VS and DL would be good partners.
119 Pu : It may go a way to defeat AA's LHR strategy, that is to say their idea to capture the best of the transatlantic premium market (which is overwelmingl
120 LAXdude1023 : Defending AA? Never. Defending DFW? Always. My loyalty is to DFW, not AA. Since AA is the one that provides DFW with a megahub and tons of jobs, I do
121 Pu : DFW is impressive! ...and I respect anyone with the ability to advertise their Self honesty and confront their public identity by calling themselves
122 Post contains images diverdave : Thank you. It is interesting to find out that the EU has laws that restrict foreign ownership of airlines, similar to the US law. I will have to do s
123 LDVAviation : I would expect BA to challenge the financial structure of the deal if it effectively gives Delta control over a European airline and what could be co
124 delimit : Which means the deal wouldn't get done. That said, I am not sure that BA would challenge. A strengthened VS (but still massively weaker no matter how
125 Post contains links AF185 : According to Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...atlantic-sunday-times-reports.html
126 DeltaMD90 : If DL/AF/KL acquire 51%+, will they effectively be in charge of the airline? As in they can basically do whatever they want with VS? I'm not too famil
127 mayor : Without DL's purchase of the 49%, AF/KL's possible purchase of a small stake in Virgin wouldn't make much sense, and the opposite holds true, also. B
128 fcogafa : Several newspapers are reporting Willie Walsh saying that this could be the end of the Virgin brand and that Delta only want the slots. Although it se
129 anstar : I believe they can still apply for the other 3 slots in another scheduling season. As can any other carrier for the next 3 or so years i believe. I d
130 LJ : Shouldn't we change the title of this thread into AF/KL Poised to Swoop on Virgin Atlantic as per Bloomberg article the rumour is that AF/KL will gain
131 AF185 : DL is negotiating for the main capital chunk (49% currently controlled by SQ), while AF-KL is said to be discussing for a small portion of SRB's capi
132 AirbusA6 : VS have to be careful, an airline controled by DL/AF will lose it's 'little guy' independent/funky image, and neither French nor USA airlines have a p
133 usdcaguy : Yes. Due to their JV, DL and AF/KL would more than happily work together to create a profitable venture. I'm sure discussions will be had in regards
134 TeamInTheSky : As a UK resident for many years now, I would argue that the AF/KL group has a very strong reputation in the UK. Especially KL who has become the defa
135 parapente : Could not Virgin become a local/ holiday airline. The has got Virgin Auz/far east. Also now got USA/ Americas.Now has a UK airline. (has tried before
136 Post contains links EA CO AS : Here's one of the articles suggesting the VS brand could be scrapped entirely: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...c-brand-could-soon-be-history.ht
137 Bongodog1964 : At the end of the day its all about money, Richard Branson has been in the airline business for a long time and has quite an amount of capital tied u
138 Post contains links StarGuy : According to Richard Branson: http://virg.in/aa
139 fcogafa : No mention of who might own the company in that blog though. Maybe there is an agreement that DAL etc must keep the brand as such for 5 years, or the
140 parapente : Re Above comments - not far off I would say but.... Richard is famous for having very complicated financial structures - what exactly owns what I wond
141 Bongodog1964 : Interesting quotes to say the least "Virgin Atlantic was my baby 28 years ago when we set up with just one plane. Like all children, they never reall
142 Post contains links anstar : Virgin Holidays is a 100% subsiduary of Virgin Atlantic as far as I am aware. This article http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...virgin-delta-idUSBR
143 Bongodog1964 : VS could easily have worked more closely with SQ, joined star would have been one step. Also they could have launched joint venture flights LHR - Sin
144 jfk777 : Walsh saying the Virgin brand is going to "dissappear" is laughable, but what would you expect the CEO of IAG to say. What does Walsh expect Virgin to
145 LHRFlyer : I don't think he is. There is a valid underlying point being made that Delta will be making a very large investment in an airline that it won't contr
146 Post contains links wolfpacker : Bloomberg is saying they are close http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...in-stake-deal-for-300-500-mln.html
147 Post contains links AF185 : BREAKING (Bloomberg) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...in-stake-deal-for-300-500-mln.html
148 ual777uk : As expected if the Bloomberg report rings true SRB will not give up control of VS. Looks like VS are heading to ST, when most and myself thought thhey
149 Post contains links readytotaxi : Take a look at this link. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20665041 Branson bets £1m Virgin Atlantic will still be around in 5yrs time.
150 DeltaMD90 : There has to be some background deals... I really hope DL won't be so stupid and buy 49% of VS without some assurances...
151 Bongodog1964 : Are you basing your assesment on the fact that SQ had the best part of a Billion dollars tied up for 13 years and now look like only getting 1/3 of i
152 rwy04lga : Would that be possible/feasible? How about 'Delta's Sacrificial Virgin'?
153 LGWflyer : If something like that did happen, would they paint all the current VS aircraft into DL livery?
154 LDVAviation : It is not laughable, it is brilliant. He is playing Branson's ego against him. Either way, Walsh wins. If the Virgin brand disappears, BA becomes the
155 GCT64 : SQ and LH are two of the smartest and best run airlines in the world, they have both had their hands severely burnt playing in the UK market with VS a
156 jetlanta : Yes.
157 anstar : I would disagree - I think a DL/VS tie up would have lots of benefits for both carriers. But SQ and VS never really had much to offer each other. DL
158 TeamInTheSky : Hi All, I would not argue about how clever any of the management teams are as all have had good and bad times and made good and bad decsions. I would
159 LDVAviation : How is this Joint Venture going to transform Virgin from a point to point airline from the US to LHR? It needs help in its own domestic market. Its b
160 skipness1E : It has good logic behind it though. If Delta gets de-facto control of VS then it's way too tempting to re-focus on gaining a bigger foothold in key m
161 mcogator : Me too. Especially on MCO-UK. No more 1 stop into ATL/JFK.
162 jetlanta : Much better than my answer. You are EXACTLY right here.
163 slinky09 : You miss the large O&D market that VS has from London and giving that up would not make good logic - what incentive would one have to fly DL with
164 jfk777 : Today Delta flies 3 daily nonstop 767 from JFk to LHR (without Virgin) , Virgin is about getting more flights from JFK to LHR.
165 FlyCaledonian : If this deal goes ahead - and it looks increasingly likely to do so - there would be nothing to stop VS splitting a few years down the line. LHR ops b
166 Boysteve : Would the new VS/DL tie up mean a pull out from LHR-EWR? If these flights are moved to JFK then that would be 8 flights per day JFK-LHR which would b
167 skipness1E : The same VS branding already does exist as a LHR and LGW brand, it's not an issue.
168 Post contains images commavia : Agreed. Walsh is just being sarcastic ("cheeky") - just as Branson has been for 30 years about every single thing BA does. A large portion of whateve
169 Prost : Well, Continental paid $209 million for four pairs of LHR slots, so if DL pays $300-500 million, increases their presence in the LHR market, and adds
170 skipness1E : The LGW beach market isn't low yield, that's just an assumption people make. Indeed it was apparently the only bit of BA making money post 2008 bankin
171 mayor : I wonder. If DL is just looking for Virgin to join Skyteam or a JV (or both) I wonder why DL should have to pay money to get Virgin to do it, unless
172 DeltaMD90 : Yes, I know, so DL would be that much stupider if they repeated the same error!
173 NYCAdvantage : Maybe SQ has a veto power on that, maybe the only way out for VS to join Skyteam is for DL to buy the shares. Since it has been reported that is a th
174 notdownnlocked : Perhaps while the DL execs are in SIN working on a VS deal they can recall the close relationship that SQ once had with DL and restart some lost oppor
175 anstar : I can't see VS giving up the EWR market. Even BA/AA keep a presence in EWR-LHR after the JV started. I would say that DL have had seperate discussion
176 stlgph : Deal is official. Delta spending $360 million to 49% stake in Virgin Atlantic currently held by Singapore. Delta gets 3 seats on the board.
177 Post contains links FlyKev : As this topic is now confirmed, a new thread on the topic has been started: Breaking NEWS: DL Acquiring 49% In VS (by mindscape Dec 11 2012 in Civil A
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