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Virgin Atlantic's Domestic Flights- Any Infos?  
User currently offlinedebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2430 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7849 times:

Hi to you all, sorry if discussed before - and this post is closed: Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights (by david_itl Aug 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

I just spotted by coincidence the upload of their new domestic routes and fares, like LHR-MAN.

Why is VS so "quiet" about this major step- I couldn't find any special-sale or promo-fare on their home-page promoting this event.

Also, what is to expect? Flights are listed by A319- but where do they come from? Any idea about the seating configuration? All economy layout it seems - but what will happen to the UpperClass passengers?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7764 times:

Cynics might say that VS have not got what they wanted, they got a lot of publicity about "big bad BA" and their monopolist tendencies. but now have the potential embarrasment of actually having to operate the slots. It might have been better for them to have got the publicity, not got the slots, then they could have bleated for the next decade about unfairness and mysterious vendettas.
Having been granted the slots with only 5 months to source planes, sell seats and start operating its no great surprise that all the details aren't yet being made public.


User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

Actually they have been too quiet about this and that´s not SRB style, but they were also trying to open flights to Edinburg and Aberdeen, But i´m not sure what will happen with that because Aer Lingus is also bidding for that and last time VS lost the battle with U2 with moscow, but this time I think for the same reason they lost Moscow they should get this new slots and offer flights from Scotland to LHR and beyond and not only point to point.

At the beginning people said that they were only doing because Virgin lose a very important train contract in the UK, but if they can get the slots in LHR i´m sure they can do it pretty good.

Actually I though they were planning to operate some E-190 on that routes not A319, but always on wet lease from someone else, not VS metal and crew.

the plan for MAN was to offer at least 3 daily rotations and the Scotland routes also 2 daily to fight with BA that reduce the frequencies by 1 quarter.


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting debonair (Thread starter):
All economy layout it seems - but what will happen to the UpperClass passengers?

Presumably sit them in economy like BA do on their domestic services.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Cynics might say that VS have not got what they wanted,

Actually I'd say VS got the best outcome... 12 LHR slots and soem domestic feed routes.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
but they were also trying to open flights to Edinburg and Aberdeen

VS have won all the short haul remedy slots. They mentioned details would be released within 2-3 weeks about a week ago - so more info to come imminently I guess.


User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7379 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7632 times:
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Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Actually I though they were planning to operate some E-190 on that routes not A319, but always on wet lease from someone else, not VS metal and crew

This Business Traveller articlesays Avion Express A319s may appear to be the equipment and airline to be used as they've been advertising for crews based ex-LHR. I wonder VS do make a go of these routes if they would then be tempted to actually reinstate the A320 family into part of their own fleet,

Quoting anstar (Reply 3):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Cynics might say that VS have not got what they wanted,

Actually I'd say VS got the best outcome... 12 LHR slots and soem domestic feed routes.

MAN was not part of the slot remedy but may have been a necessity as they can't have their own slots being used by other airlines whilst attempting to get the remedy slots .


User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7622 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
the plan for MAN was to offer at least 3 daily rotations and the Scotland routes also 2 daily to fight with BA that reduce the frequencies by 1 quarter.

The MAN route is up and running, you can book it on the VS web site, it is thrice daily.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Having been granted the slots with only 5 months to source planes, sell seats and start operating its no great surprise that all the details aren't yet being made public.

Not sure what detail you want for MAN, VS has confirmed that it is leasing planes from Avion Express, the schedule is confirmed, the seats are bookable (I'm on the very first).

As to ABZ and EDI it's only been a few weeks since VS won the remedy slots, so perhaps you might give them a little time to line up all the ducks and make the detailed announcements on schedules etc.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Cynics might say that VS have not got what they wanted

Your own cynicism perhaps? Or perhaps VS got exactly what it wanted - something like two thirds of passengers who fly MAN-LHR connect to a long haul flight, with BMI gone VS was just handing money to BA.


User currently offlineLofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

Which terminal is VS operating its Domestics from?

User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7168 times:

Quoting Lofty (Reply 6):
Which terminal is VS operating its Domestics from?

T1.


User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6392 times:

I personally can't wait to see the VS livery on the A319 / A320's




Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 8):
I personally can't wait to see the VS livery on the A319 / A320's

The Virgin livery is kinda already on the A319/320 with Virgin America.



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Photo © Chris Gimmillaro



But saying that the new VS livery will look brilliant on them too though.



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Would be nice if Vs did like VX does with the first class for the upper class pax on these domestic flights. Never cared much for the Pseudo business class European airlines use for short haul. Hopefully VS will become stronger. While I am am thoroughly AA/BA for a number of reasons, I never like monopolies.

User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4999 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 10):
Would be nice if Vs did like VX does with the first class for the upper class pax on these domestic flights. Never cared much for the Pseudo business class European airlines use for short haul. Hopefully VS will become stronger.

BA Club Europe is a ripoff. VS could get win J customers from BA if they offer more than a glass of champagne and sitting at the front of the plane for short hall business class. But then again the flights will be an hour or so.


User currently offlinesteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 411 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 10):
Would be nice if Vs did like VX does with the first class for the upper class pax on these domestic flights. Never cared much for the Pseudo business class European airlines use for short haul

Agreed, European business class is rubbish compared the Americas offering, but VS would have to be nuts to do something that will increase their costs that this particular market does not need - the short haul ops are probably going to be at best break even and are more about shoring up the top line of the long haul operation. Bear in mind the block time from ABZ to LHR is 1h15m (iirc) - there is limited time to differentiate yourself on that segment if you want connecting pax going on to 8+ hour long haul flights.

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 11):
BA Club Europe is a ripoff. VS could get win J customers from BA if they offer more than a glass of champagne and sitting at the front of the plane for short hall business class. But then again the flights will be an hour or so.

All the routes VS are competing on are domestic routes for BA - Club Europe is not offered, seating is 3-3 although the basic differentiation is that passengers with flexible tickets get lounge access. Flexible European short haul is a rip-off - I have paid over £500 for a LHR-ABZ or FRA return and is often more expensive than flexible Club Europe - and to be honest every time I rock up for a 6/7am flight from LHR, all I end up doing is passing out in 1C, most often before pushback. The (pretty ropey) champagne and cooked breakfast is wasted on me - so getting out the other end before everyone else is a tangible benefit.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineLofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Which lounge will VS be able to use in T1? I can't see BA or EI allowing them to use theirs.

User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4535 times:

Quoting Lofty (Reply 13):
Which lounge will VS be able to use in T1? I can't see BA or EI allowing them to use theirs.

Is there a servisair lounge at T1?


User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 7):
Quoting Lofty (Reply 6):
Which terminal is VS operating its Domestics from?

T1.

They will use T3


User currently offlinedebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2430 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 10):
Would be nice if Vs did like VX does with the first class for the upper class pax on these domestic flights.
Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 11):
VS could get win J customers from BA if they offer more than a glass of champagne and sitting at the front of the plane for short hall business class.

  True! Unfortunately only Y-fares are available for booking. Seems a domestic UpperClass is only a dream...

Quoting 747438 (Reply 15):
They will use T3

Yes, in Manchester - but LHR will be T1!


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Has it actually been confirmed that the aircraft will be painted in VIR colours? It may just as likely be Avion Express scheme or an amended version of that. They currently seem to have just one A319,, LY-VEU which has been around a bit - US Airways, United Eagle, Chengdu...

[Edited 2012-12-03 04:40:42]

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Quoting debonair (Reply 16):
True! Unfortunately only Y-fares are available for booking. Seems a domestic UpperClass is only a dream...

I have cheked the fares difference between BA and VS and there were only 4 pounds difference on a return flight to MAN between the 2... not what I call competing with BA.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 8):
I personally can't wait to see the VS livery on the A319 / A320's


   +1



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlinelapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Quoting 747438 (Reply 15):

You seem to be adamant about this in various posts (probably due to your job role). What's the set up going to be for arriving passengers? There is no domestic arrivals at T3 and no separate baggage reclaim. It will also mean cameras etc for departing passengers at security in the same vane as at T1 and T5 to be able to capture a facial image of the domestic passengers and compare when boarding the aircraft.


User currently offlinelapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

In addition, all the online booking sites and GDS's state that the flights will be departing from T1 at LHR.

User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 17):
Has it actually been confirmed that the aircraft will be painted in VIR colours?

I can't find the link, but the aircraft will be in VS colours & the cabin crew in VS Uniforms.



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineantonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

I'll give them six months and branson will shut it down winging and whining that BA have pushed him off the routes or some other excuse.

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4175 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

An Irish newspaper is reporting that EI will annouce tomorrow that they are starting short haul flights on behalf of another carrier.

Could this be it?



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineShuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting antonovman (Reply 23):

I think that is what will happen.BA have the market sown up, and so do the LCCs.As said before if BMI couldn't make it work then the same goes for VS ...

Quoting antonovman (Reply 23):

I agree on this one, i am sure he will come up with something making BA out to be the perpetrator and after 15 months they will retreat and blame BA ...This market is pretty well sown up with the LCC and BA have LHR pretty much covered now..Anyway on a good note , good luck to them, 16 months!


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Quoting antonovman (Reply 23):
I'll give them six months and branson will shut it down winging and whining that BA have pushed him off the routes or some other excuse

If we are talking here about domestic routes using the remedy slots awarded to VS following the BA acquisition of BD then they have to be used for one of the EU designated city pairs for a minimum of three years. This would therefore apply to VS's forthcoming EDI and ABZ routes, but not MAN which was not part of the remedy slot auction.

I don't know what provision exists to allow VS to abandon a route in less than 3 years if they so wished - but I would imagine if they want to give up the route they would have to either start a service to one of the other designated city pairs or surrender the slot back for reallocation to another airline.

On the assumption that neither of those two options would appeal to VS then I guess like it or not the VS routes to ABZ and EDI will be around for at least 3 years.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3063 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 11):
BA Club Europe is a ripoff. VS could get win J customers from BA if they offer more than a glass of champagne and sitting at the front of the plane for short hall business class.

No Business Class on either BA or, apparently, VS domestic flights.

Quoting 747438 (Reply 15):
They will use T3

Surely T3 does not have the facilities to handle either domestic or Common Travel Area (British Isles) arriving passengers.

Passengers travelling to and from the CTA have to be kept entirely separate from passengers arriving on international flights for border control purposes. I cannot see it would be viable to implement the necessary changes to provide such separation for only a dozen or so rotations a day. It would require that certain gates would be dedicated to the use of CTA passengers. Wouldn't that reduce the passenger handling capacity if VS wanted to operate flights to ABZ, EDI and MAN at peak times as the CTA piers would not then be used at off peak times and arriving and departing international passengers on those stands would have to be bussed from and to their aircraft.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 26):
On the assumption that neither of those two options would appeal to VS then I guess like it or not the VS routes to ABZ and EDI will be around for at least 3 years.

After three years VS would theoretically have grandfather rights to the remedy slots. However these slots could not be used for most long-haul flights. Even after three years they must be used for flights either to a destination within the European Union, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and the Channel Islands or to Cairo, Moscow and/or Riyadh. If VS could not make their flights to ABZ and EDI work which flights within this constraint could they make work?

If VS no longer wishes to operate the remedy slots to ABZ and/or EDI after the six IATA seasons and does not wish to use them to the European or three specified mid-haul destinations, VS must return the slots to IAG or, if IAG do not want them, to the LHR Slot Coordinator for reallocation.


User currently offlinelapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 27):
Surely T3 does not have the facilities to handle either domestic or Common Travel Area (British Isles) arriving passengers.

As I mentioned, the GDS's state they will be using T1.


User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 778 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

Flights will be operated by EI on a wet lease basis in Virgin domestic colours....


Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineHullCitySpotter From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 29):
Flights will be operated by EI on a wet lease basis in Virgin domestic colours...

Pretty sure its Avion Express who'll be operating these flights?

"22NOV2012: Avion Express to operate Virgin Atlantic domestic routes
Avion Express (X9, Vilnius International (VNO)) will operate three A320-200s on behalf of Virgin Atlantic (VS, London Heathrow (LHR)) from March 2013 as part of Virgin Atlantic's plan to launch domestic flights from London Heathrow to Aberdeen Dyce (ABZ), Edinburgh (EDI) and Manchester Ringway International (MAN)."


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