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Atlanta Aviation Thread  
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

Hi all,

Over the past few months, a variety of city-specific and region-specific threads have developed, and have been incredibly popular. I thought a.net could use one for ATL!

Current events/proposals include:

the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

scheduled A380 service by KE (gate testing is now postponed until January 2013)

possible addition of service by B6 (note: this is pure speculation at this stage)

possible 787 service by QR

Please do not let this thread become another discussion of how ATL is or isn't overserved, as there is already a thread for that   Let the discussions begin, and Happy Holidays!

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Also the possible WN-DL gate switch. The 2 things I have heard are WN getting all of C and WN getting all of the North D gates giving DL all of C.

I have no inside knowledge but if I were WN I would tell DL, WN gets all of C or we don't change a thing because WN can not fit all of the additional pax from the current RJs DL operates in the D concourse.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

Well their is a current thread on this already so I would keep away from this.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

I think that ATL has done a great job attracting cargo operations, but now I would Love to see some new passenger additions. We almost had TK service but that never happened, still hope to see QR come to ATL and who know's if the KE A380 will ever show up or a possible AF A380. Great that we still see BA, LH, KL serve ATL but it would be nice to see some different airlines. A return of JL would be nice but doubt it along with Swiss. I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok and that DL had pushed the City of Atlanta to extend 27R to help with that, (not sure if that's reality or not). Come on ATL get some free wifi access also!!! They claim to have it in Concourse E but I've never been able to get it to work. Just curious but does BA offer a "full" 4-class service to LHR? Or are they still blocking the First Class section?


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7210 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
I thought a.net could use one for ATL!

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread yet  
Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

looks like, per another thread, WN is not liking ATL as much, especially with competition from DL.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
possible 787 service by QR

Has this been confirmed yet? I heard many rumors, but haven't actually seen anything confirmed yet.


Stopped by Concourse F during a recent layover in ATL; it looks really good!



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok

Never, ever going to happen. The yields on BKK-US are awful, and if they did it ATL wouldn't be the gateway.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
We almost had TK service but that never happened, still hope to see QR come to ATL and who know's if the KE A380 will ever show up or a possible AF A380.

As far as airline variety, ATL is a victim of DL's success. There are very few routes that a foreign flag carrier could make work that DL cannot, but very few routes not already flown that could support two carriers.

It's a similar story in, for instance, CLT, which could likely support BA pretty easily if it wasn't a US hub.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 925 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

Yes BA has the four class 777 to LHR from ATL. I have flown in both FCL and JCL. First was incredible. Business was one of the worst JCL in the industry. DL rates so much higher in their JCL.


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
As far as airline variety, ATL is a victim of DL's success. There are very few routes that a foreign flag carrier could make work that DL cannot, but very few routes not already flown that could support two carriers.

To an extent, I think this often applies with domestic operations also, and is part of the reason why FL (and now WN) was (and is) a victim of DL operations in ATL.

[Edited 2012-12-02 19:51:05]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 6):
To an extent, I think this often applies with domestic operations also,

Maybe. But if you look at a market like DEN, which is a smaller city but may have somewhat more demand, I don't know that you see evidence that a legacy hub inhibits LFC operations in too many city pairs.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1754 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4263 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Free WiFi was announced a month or so ago... They have to wait for the existing contract to run out first, though... Supposed to be within the next year...

User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Quoting Litz (Reply 8):

It's about time!    ATL is my home airport, and I've gotten tired of having to access the internet from my phone while waiting to board flights there!


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Never, ever going to happen. The yields on BKK-US are awful, and if they did it ATL wouldn't be the gateway.

It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT.

Quoting Litz (Reply 8):
Free WiFi was announced a month or so ago... They have to wait for the existing contract to run out first, though... Supposed to be within the next year...

With more and more folks carrying smartphones, Wifi/Wimax dongles/portable hotspots or tablets with 3G/4G capability, this could be a case of too little too late.

KE will still be bringing the A380 to ATL, it's just slightly delayed due to the airport and airfield upgrades not being completed and ready in time for the original planned date for KE putting the A380 into ATL. I figure that the new start date will be either late Spring or early Summer. As for AF bringing it into ATL, that one I'm not as certain about. The only way I could see them bringing the A380 into ATL would be if they cut down to one flight a day.

As for new airlines into ATL, other than the rumored QR service, I don't see anything on the horizon. I don't think ATL is currently on B6's radar and probably won't be until the WN/FL integration is complete and FL ceases to exist as a brand, which is not expected for at least another two years. By then, who knows how much WN will have contracted at ATL. ATL has been supposedly on VX's radar for the last few years yet they still haven't entered the market and if the rumors about the airline being given an ultimatum by their investors are true, they may never enter the market.

I think that the rumored WN/FL and DL gate swaps will happen, but it may not be as we might think. It could actually involve multiple airlines.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT.

Yup. The other issue is that it's a very long way from the United State to Thailand.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7502 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT

Its not as if ATL-BKK is even a large local market. ATL-BKK makes no sense at all.

ATL-Asia is a mystery into itself. Around 40% of the entire ATL-Asia local O&D is ATL-ICN. The upside to that is ATL-ICN is absolutely huge. The downside to that is that ATL-Asia is the most lopsided unbalanced Asia O&D of all the major cities.

ATL-ICN is the single largest international O&D city from Atlanta. Its larger than ATL-CUN or ATL-LHR.

[Edited 2012-12-03 13:51:44]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
KE will still be bringing the A380 to ATL, it's just slightly delayed due to the airport and airfield upgrades not being completed and ready in time for the original planned date for KE putting the A380 into ATL.

Where would the A380 gate be? On the E concourse or the F concourse?



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 13):

Where would the A380 gate be? On the E concourse or the F concourse?

Think it's only E (a combo of E1 & E3).



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok and that DL had pushed the City of Atlanta to extend 27R to help with that,

The reason for the runway extension is to give the 777 and 747(and A380 now) a little bit more roll time. Helps with cargo to places like DXB, ICN, NRT and JNB.

Only way ATL-BKK happens is if they route the ATL-NRT and NRT-BKK flight numbers the same.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
Also the possible WN-DL gate switch. The 2 things I have heard are WN getting all of C and WN getting all of the North D gates giving DL all of C.

Here is the problem with both.
WN moves to D, WN loses gate space. Delta just paid to have a club put on D and just paid to have its bag system put all the way out to D(though this likely doesn't matter because of E)
DL moving to C then Delta not only pisses away its new club on C but also gives up a ton of space and gives WN room to grow.

At this point I don't seen anything happening except some kind of deal to get UA all on D or T(which IMO would mean AA moving to D....something that likely wont happen)

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 14):

Your right.

Isn't the master plan update due sometime soon. Likely a 6th runway and some form of gate growth.



yep.
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
some kind of deal to get UA all on D or T

Couldn't this take place if DL agreed to move its T operations to D? Why do you think that AA wouldn't be willing to move to D? Is it because of convenience to its customers/staff due to T being the closest to the terminal? I think it would be very inconvenient for UA (and their passengers) to have their operations in 2 completely different parts of the airport.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
Isn't the master plan update due sometime soon.

It is due in late 2013. I too am hoping for plans for a 6th runway. I also wonder if the South Gate Complex is still under consideration. IMO, that would be the easiest way to add gates.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):
Couldn't this take place if DL agreed to move its T operations to D? Why do you think that AA wouldn't be willing to move to D? Is it because of convenience to its customers/staff due to T being the closest to the terminal? I think it would be very inconvenient for UA (and their passengers) to have their operations in 2 completely different parts of the airport.

few reasons AA wont, IMO, leave.
The two biggest would be convenience and the fact that AA has mostly its own "stuff" (so think things like bag room etc) because AA got most of the old FIS offices etc. Plus AA would have to have a club, though i guess they could take over the UA club on D.
DL likely wont leave for the same first reason as AA. T is the only place DL can park all of its widebody fleet outside of E/F(Delta can park 67s on A) DL is(was?) trying to run flights to places like ORD/LGA and DCA out of T vs A/B also.

I think UA will end up getting to take over ~2 of the CUTE gates on D(which IIRC they already use 1 plus the 3-4 CO gates) and move to D. I expect Delta to take over the few UA T gates.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):

It is due in late 2013. I too am hoping for plans for a 6th runway. I also wonder if the South Gate Complex is still under consideration. IMO, that would be the easiest way to add gates.

I agree but it depends on where they put the new runway. I personally hope they don't try to move forward with relocating the Delta jet base(unless Delta/City were to rebuild it completely, which I don't think they will do. I think it would be used as a reason to move more work to Mexico....JMO) I don't see where TOC could be moved that it would be built back to what it is. (they said the old Ford plant, but just simply looking at google earth it wont fit)



yep.
User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

ATL is a fortress hub for DL, Serving a growing but no so diverse market. ATL has a big coporate base, but its International O&d is not as strong as other major cities. As far as international airlines go, unless they work with DL, the market cannot support multiple carriers to most foriegn destinations(besides LHR, FRA). Even most of the INTL routes DL flies only work because of the connectivity DL has at ATL.There are more profitable markets for foriegn carriers to open before ATL, and with DL dominance, its keeps most of them away. ATL only has 7 intl airlines, which is small compared to other major hubs. With WN planning to downsize ATL, maybe some domestic routes or carriers may look at service, but with a giant like DL having most the nation covered it may not be a high priority. As far as the A380, i could see it become a reality, the airport can handle it with the upgrades and there are two canidates that could begin service

[Edited 2012-12-03 23:00:16]

[Edited 2012-12-03 23:02:35]

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting thekennady (Reply 18):
As far as the A380, i could see it become a reality, the airport can handle it and there are two canidates that could begin service

It will be reality. KE has already said they will be bringing the A380 to ATL. It was going to start this month....but like normal the city is dragging ass which has caused a delay to A380 flights.



yep.
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
KE has already said they will be bringing the A380 to ATL

Amadeus say 04Aug ...

QR will make more US announcements soon. ATL's supposed to be one of them.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
possible 787 service by QR
Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):



With QR joining One world, what would support this? there is a growing indian population in the Atlanta area as well as business traffic to that region but that may already be covered through skyteam at AMS and CDG. And with DL already to DXB, it might be a tough one. It would certianly add some flare to ATL, only time will tell. QR is still doing some route and handling testing with the 787s, they are being flown into KWI, i witnessed this the other day.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

Quoting thekennady (Reply 21):

I think QR is interested in this route mostly for O&D traffic, not so much to funnel people to DOH for connections (hence the reason they are using a 787 as opposed to a larger a/c). I was surprised and intrigued when I heard about it from Akbar al Bakar, and agree that time will tell whether this route will be successful. I can't wait to see the 787 in ATL (hopefully QR will come through with its plans).


User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 925 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

It will be interesting to see QR in ATL for passenger service. They already have Cargo services. Although if EY has the AF/KL/DL codeshares possible JV, then I think it would make much more sense to have EY service ATL to AUH. But I am not picky and would welcome ANY new passenger service. As the World's Busiest Airport, ATL has the least amount of diverse scheduled passenger carriers. I remember the days of the likes of JL, RG, SN, SA, OS, SR, KX, UP, JM, LAPA of Argentina (forgot their code), LV, LM, etc. I am sure there are others...

There had been rumours that WS would start a service to ATL (not sure if that was YYC and/or YYZ) after the SA)">DL code share but I have not heard anything lately.

B6 have told me that BOS would likely be the route to ATL (no firm dates or commitments) but as stated before maybe a MCO or FLL route would work as well to connect to the Caribbean.

I would still like to see the SkyTeam carriers enter the ATL market. SU on a ATL-SVO, AZ to FCO (highly unlikely), CI to TPE via YVR with a fifth freedom route on the ATL-YVR sector, KQ to NBO, AR to EZE (Again highly unlikely) and then some of the Chinese carriers. Of course most of these would NEVER happen but it would be cool to see some new colours.



Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlinethekennady From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 22):
I think QR is interested in this route mostly for O&D traffic,

Would be great, but with just O&D could ATL provide enough demand? I wonder what ATL-DOH PDEW is. Maybe QR feels there is a market for them in ATL that they can exploit. I dont believe EY or EK would come to ATL if QR gets there first. So its most than likely 1 carrier or bust. I can see QR looking at ATL as being a potential market because of the crazy numbers it puts up passenger wise, but if they are strickly relying on O&D Its a different world.


25 LAXdude1023 : Ask and you shall receive. QR isnt after the ATL-DOH market. Its about 3 passengers a day. What QR would be after would be the travel to the region a
26 Post contains images Mark2fly1034 : The A380 gate is up and ready to go it looks like They might move the Delta TOC where the old Ford plant was to add a new Concourse and build a new te
27 Dalmd88 : They don't have to move the entire facility. If just the engine shop complex was moved there would be room to almost double the gates at F. That incl
28 srbmod : Talk has been of putting it where the originally planned to put the fifth runway at on the northside of the airport. That's an interesting one. DL di
29 jporterfi : Well, there goes my woefully incorrect theory. I think you may be on to something with regard to traffic to that region. I'm not sure if it will last
30 Deltal1011man : why does WN get it? What makes them so deserving of a new terminal. Guess making ATL what it is isn't worth much these days. smh So would that mean t
31 LAXdude1023 : My argument was not that QR cant make ATL work, just rather that there are no economic or VFR ties between ATL and Qatar. The traffic worth going for
32 thekennady : [quote=LAXdude1023,reply=25] QR isnt after the ATL-DOH market. Its about 3 passengers a day. What QR would be after would be the travel to the region
33 FreshSide3 : It would not surprise me, though, if Ethiopian would put a non-daily trip to ATL, especially with the ties, and more 787s coming to ET. If they do, t
34 Cubsrule : The same reason FL was to move to the South Terminal. It makes no sense for DL to have a piecemeal operation.
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : There are several problems with that theory. DL won't be vacating T concourse. T01-T07 can park widebodies. Specifically, T02 can park up to a 747. T
36 Post contains images Deltal1011man : No one was named yet for the SGC. Not ORD?
37 srbmod : Originally the fifth runway was to be a 5000'-6000' runway designed for commuter a/c and could have been easily placed on the northside of the airpor
38 deltairlines : ORD's been all over the place today. Departures from A32, A26, A12, A2, A31, A27, D13, A34 with the rest slated for A28 and A33.
39 jporterfi : This makes a lot more sense now, thanks. I can see why DL would need/want a place to park widebodies for domestic ops (so that people wouldn't have t
40 deltairlines : Likely because these flights see a higher concentration of local passengers, notably business travelers who tend to be on higher fares. It'd be a com
41 Litz : Simple: business travel. You don't want your elite FFs flying to the northeast to have to go all the way to E or F...
42 Cubsrule : I don't really understand BOS, which has no nonstop competition on a legacy carrier. There's no one to compete with.
43 globalflyer : Precheck in ATL has now moved to the Central Security area as of Nov 28th. I wonder why? Does this mean that other airlines now participate in ATL? I
44 Dalmd88 : It isn't always about direct competition. It is about giving the same service to all of your top domestic business destinations.
45 Cubsrule : But that doesn't explain the choice of BOS over, for instance, IAH or MIA.
46 comairguycvg : My department told me in the meeting just the other day that KE is still scheduled to start A380 service in late Jan or early Feb. Still no hard date
47 dlramp4life : Interesting. I thought it was slated for late spring/early summer. Looks like they will have to rush ramp crews through training ASAP unless KE is no
48 Post contains images DL_Mech : Why not just move all engine shops to MSP (expand the facility there)? Plus, if they take TOC I with it, they could get rid of that pesky "Fly Delta
49 Post contains images jporterfi : I like that sign! I highly doubt they would move all of their engine shops away from their biggest hub. Maybe some, but not all. I like the idea of m
50 DL_Mech : I agree with you, but there are truck(s) going between TechOps MSP and TechOps ATL Daily. Engines transport on tractor/trailers quite easily (Except
51 Post contains images Deltal1011man : ......or not do that but is this a joke....or you for real? Because its a huge Delta FF market. high paying Delta FFs. or at least this is what I was
52 DL_Mech : I haven't heard anything about it...... Let's just say that it could happen if ATL wanted the terminal space and MSP wanted jobs to return. I'm not s
53 Deltal1011man : ....I mean do you want this to happen? It wont, Delta isn't going to piss off all those old timers in the engine shop. Also moving to MSP takes away
54 DL_Mech : No. Offer a good enough package, and a bunch will choose to leave/retire. Pro-unioh sentiment at TechOps is the lowest I've seen in a long time. Sadl
55 FlyASAGuy2005 : See Exactly.
56 Cubsrule : What you are missing is that most Atlantans for whom this is a big deal would almost certainly fly DL anyway.
57 Deltal1011man : it would be, but that will happen......uh never Ok good. Really? I seem to get more pro-unionish(more..."something needs to change" vs "I want a unio
58 Post contains links and images DL_Mech : Man, you could use some cheering up. Let me help. . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K89UzRdeBNg&t=3m36s
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