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Could Thomson Ever Send The 787 To SAN?  
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

With the recent news of the JAL 787 to SAN it got me thinking about what the possibilities are of someone like Thomson sending the 787 there sometime in the future. A route like this seems perfect for the 787 and has advantages at SAN with not taking up too much space as what the 777 does etc.

With BA serving from LHR, I think Thomson could give some good competition from places like LGW/MAN/GLA etc... California is very popular with us British tourists so I'd think it could do well.

This is only a thought... opinions?


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Qutie out the box, i like it. Id like to see destinations in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and maybe Northern South America open up with the TOM 787. I believe the market would be there for such flights.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 1):
Qutie out the box, i like it. Id like to see destinations in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and maybe Northern South America open up with the TOM 787. I believe the market would be there for such flights.

Yeah, I think some interesting destinations would be great! Also I believe that they were thinking about actually starting Hawaii when they discussed future routes with the 787, but this was a while ago so im not sure if they are still thinking about it...



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Some of these destinations could support say a 1 or 2 weekly rotation, certainly from MAN and LGW. First choice used to fly to some exotic destinations in Venezuela i believe (?) so some more out of the box thinking would be nice.

Certainly at work i heard Hawaii being thrown about a fair bit. For now it does seem its a one for one swap with the 767's, which means new destinations may be a few years off...



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Keep in mind, too, that Thomson also has an extensive system during the summer, between the UK and Greece. In theory, this could be used as an alternative routing to get to Greece from then USA depending on the schedule they are running.

For example, getting from SAN to Corfu would typically have a routing of SAN-DL-JFK-DL-ATH-OA-CFU, or similar types of combinations........a theoretical routing of SAN-MAN-CFU, single-online connection on Thomson, would be more palatable than two-stop interline.

Granted, the intention of Thomson was to get UK-US service, but this would be a nice by-product of it.


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 3):
Some of these destinations could support say a 1 or 2 weekly rotation, certainly from MAN and LGW. First choice used to fly to some exotic destinations in Venezuela i believe (?) so some more out of the box thinking would be nice.

Yes I agree. And as you say with thinking outside the box, the 787 can open a whole new market for places like BRS/NCL/BHX/EMA with direct flights to very exotic places without needing to go to bigger airports etc... For example I believe one of the only long hauls from BRS is using a 767 to SFB which routes via MAN for a fuel stop I believe, so the 787 will surely benefit things like that by direct flights. Maybe also we can hopefully see some more Indian Ocean destinations.

Yep FCA use to fly to Margarita in Venezuela.

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 3):
Certainly at work i heard Hawaii being thrown about a fair bit. For now it does seem its a one for one swap with the 767's, which means new destinations may be a few years off...

Lets hope they do go ahead with some of these destinations in the future.   

I can't remember if I read it somewhere unless I'm dreaming but didn't they say they would also be looking into places like Rio?



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineseansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 808 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 3):
For now it does seem its a one for one swap with the 767's, which means new destinations may be a few years off...

They announced LGW - Phuket to begin with 787s.

One British carrier also used to fly to Sanya (China) via Bahrain I think. I think it only lasted one season but maybe a non-stop flight could work. Sanya is very popular with Asian and Russian tourists.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24361 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3435 times:

Considering Thompson does not do anything to the much larger West Coast tourist markets such as Los Angeles, San Francisco or Las Vegas, I dont see why they would do a random flight to smaller San Diego.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 5):
Yes I agree. And as you say with thinking outside the box, the 787 can open a whole new market for places like BRS/NCL/BHX/EMA with direct flights to very exotic places without needing to go to bigger airports etc... For example I believe one of the only long hauls from BRS is using a 767 to SFB which routes via MAN for a fuel stop I believe, so the 787 will surely benefit things like that by direct flights. Maybe also we can hopefully see some more Indian Ocean destinations.

You'd be surprised how many people would like to see Seattle to in the north part of England. Most UK expatriates here are, percentage-wise, mostly from the north, and relatively few Londoners....


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4650 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 1):
Qutie out the box, i like it. Id like to see destinations in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and maybe Northern South America open up with the TOM 787. I believe the market would be there for such flights.

I think that with Emirates etc that is going to be really difficult. If anything, in general you see charter airlines withdrawing from that area due to exactly that competition. Condor might be an exception, but they start serving the really niche markets. HKT might be an exception as it it a high density leisure market so charter airlines could hold their own there. Plus Thomson (holidays) can benefit from the strong TUI infrastructure TUI Nordic has built up.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5231 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

The Dreamliner no doubt is enabling a lot of outside-the-box thinking; it didn't take long for SAN-Asia nonstop to get the nod.

And of course Zoom zeroed right in on LGW-SAN when looking for US cites to serve, but of course that was during one of BA's service suspensions at Lindbergh Field.

BA is exceeding expectations here (in SAN) with pax -- and even more-so with cargo -- so there seems to be a strong, healthy market but they do have the OW alliance helping the situation.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some other carrier start a Europe-SAN flight once the incentive offered by SDIA again becomes available (that should be next June I believe) but I would expect LH, KL or even AF to be the most likely to try that. I think that would be about it for the foreseeable future.

The idea of Thomson offering competitive service from the UK (and other points) to SAN is interesting but I personally would be surprised to see it. Maybe in a year or two, when both Mexico and our flailing cruise industry here are more attractive to foreign travelers, it could be more likely...?

bb


User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6260 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

To answer the question, Thompson could send the 787 anywhere they want that has a runway big enough.

 



Is grammar no longer taught is schools? Saying "me and her" or some such implies illiteracy.
User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2790 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

It's THOMSON, without a 'P'.

I'd expect a further push into Mexico beyond CUN, considering the group's huge success there.

I was told earlier this year that Puerto Vallarta and Cabo were both possibilities for W '14.

However, I don't see the 787 suddenly flying to every obscure point in the world in Thomson's colours.

I'm sure Crosswind will have some valuable input on this thread.

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6260 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

Damn spell correction.  


Is grammar no longer taught is schools? Saying "me and her" or some such implies illiteracy.
User currently offlinetomkell92 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2012, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

Currently, Thomson have announced that the 787 Dreamliners are to fly from MAN LGW EMA and i think GLA

They will operate to AGP FAO and PMI in April 2013 for testing purposes and crew familiarisation

After that, the only destinations that I have been told are SFB CUN and maybe MLE

The others that they are looking at operating are as follows:

Hawaii
Other areas in Mexico - I'm sure First Choice used to operate Cabo on a seasonal basis
Rio has been mentioned, but don't think it will go ahead
Thailand has definitely been talked about, both Phuket and Bangkok, but these are likely to be from LGW only
Vietnam mentioned, but again probably only from LGW
Miami has been rumoured but can't see that happening
I imagine they will use the 787 to Goa in the winter to replace their 767's
The Philippines has been mentioned

Other than that, the 787 will basically just replace the existing routes that are operated with their 767's



Tom Kellock
User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

I can't really see the Thomson 787's flying to any new destinations, just covering the routes that the 767 already do and will eventually replace them...

It is possible Thomson could start new Long Haul destinations, like a few years ago they opened up Northern Brazil...

I don't see the 787 been the reason for starting new routes, and will just send the new aircraft where customers demand. I appreciate Phukit is a new destination for Thomson, but I am sure they served this destination with the 767's a few years back.


User currently offlineFCAA321 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2011, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 14):

The 787 will not be flying to MLE until November 2013.

It is flying 90% of the routes next winter.

They have already announced Phuket from November 2013 (which i'm booked on) and next on the list will be PVR for Summer 2014.

As an employee of Thomson this is common knowledge in house. It is also due for delivery in February 2013 and no routes (short haul) have been confirmed at all for February to April 2013 until the first flights from GLA-CUN and LGW-SFB on 1 May 2013. ( of which I'm booked on the inaugural LGW-CUN on 2 May 2013).


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 6):
One British carrier also used to fly to Sanya (China) via Bahrain I think. I think it only lasted one season but maybe a non-stop flight could work. Sanya is very popular with Asian and Russian tourists.

Airtours/My Travel. Operated from MAN IIRC



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Considering Thompson does not do anything to the much larger West Coast tourist markets such as Los Angeles, San Francisco or Las Vegas, I dont see why they would do a random flight to smaller San Diego.
Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 11):
To answer the question, Thompson could send the 787 anywhere they want that has a runway big enough.
Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 12):
However, I don't see the 787 suddenly flying to every obscure point in the world in Thomson's colours.

I did not say San Diego just as a random place for Thomson to start sending the 787 just because I want it to go there! My reason why I said SAN was because it seems the most viable and sensible place for them which could make a profit, considering the market from the UK. I could have said any remote place in the world but at the end of the day it most likely would be a waste as hardly it would be full and the airline would make no profit. In the past and present the 767 does not seem to be the most suitable aircraft for the flight to SAN, saying that Zoom did this but the whole point was the fact that the 787 was built for routes such as this. Plus the other major advantage to the 787 is that it can operate at smaller airports in the UK like Bristol/Newcastle which can get direct flights to exotic far away locations such as SAN. And finally BA have proved the route can be popular as San Diego is popular with British tourists, so I am sure at more leisure orientated airports such as Gatwick or Manchester etc that this could work.

Also I wouldn't see Thomson flying to places like LAX or SFO (except cruise charters) in a million years as these are more city type destinations. Las Vegas I could see, but already they would have competition with BA and VS from LGW.

My   

Any other thoughts, please discuss...  



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5231 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2088 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 18):
I did not say San Diego just as a random place for Thomson to start sending the 787 just because I want it to go there! My reason why I said SAN was because it seems the most viable and sensible place for them which could make a profit, considering the market from the UK. I could have said any remote place in the world but at the end of the day it most likely would be a waste as hardly it would be full and the airline would make no profit. In the past and present the 767 does not seem to be the most suitable aircraft for the flight to SAN, saying that Zoom did this but the whole point was the fact that the 787 was built for routes such as this. Plus the other major advantage to the 787 is that it can operate at smaller airports in the UK like Bristol/Newcastle which can get direct flights to exotic far away locations such as SAN. And finally BA have proved the route can be popular as San Diego is popular with British tourists, so I am sure at more leisure orientated airports such as Gatwick or Manchester etc that this could work

   Your points are certainly well-taken by me (some of which I mentioned in my earlier reply.) It just depends on what other markets the company is looking at and how Thomson would rank the profitability and potential of each of them.

(And just to mention that the 763 that Zoom used on the SAN and FLL routes was actually -- at that time -- the perfect fit for the airline and the markets; they did not carry cargo so they could fully load the a/c with pax and fuel and make the trip to the UK from SAN just fine. Obviously the 787 is even better and the absolute perfect airplane for SAN's geography; having just watched the JL Dreamliner take off on Sunday for TYO, many observers were amazed at how little of our 9400' runway was used! Very impressive and good reason for optimism for us in San Diego!)
Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 12):
I don't see the 787 suddenly flying to every obscure point in the world in Thomson's colours.

If I were the sensitive sort, I might object the classification of San Diego as an "obscure point". We are not New York or Los Angeles -- and I'm just fine with that btw! -- but I think there are more than a few people around the globe who are familiar enough with us as a tourist destination to categorize us somewhere above "obscure"...  

bb


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Oddly enough, Austin would also be a natural destination for Thomson.........kind of a "niche" route.....people from the UK like visiting AUS, and vice-versa. Plus they can certainly pick up a lot of business during the SXSW music festival; lots of people come for the concerts. MAN-AUS sounds like it would be viable.

User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

The Thomson 787's will fly for their parent TUI tour operations on inclusive tour contract flying. I'm sure the hotel contractors are busy looking at up to 2 years ahead for new destinations to use their latest toy on. Market conditions and customer demand will be focused on for sure. So in addition to the routes already planned for winter 13/14 season, and the gradual withdrawal of the 767's as the Dreamliner fleet builds up, I'd say new routes serving Brazil must be high on the agenda, given the World Cup and Olympics there in the next few years.
Incidentally - the first Thomson 787 is l/n 106.


User currently offlinebananaboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1570 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 14):
Other areas in Mexico - I'm sure First Choice used to operate Cabo on a seasonal basis

It was announced but never operated.

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 14):
Hawaii

Nice idea, but I can't see that one happening. Hotel demand is such that they might not get the breaks in rates they need to make it worthwhile to operate the flight and remain competitive with the various choices available through US connections.

Would love to be proved wrong on this.

Quoting FCAA321 (Reply 16):
and next on the list will be PVR for Summer 2014.

Nice to see PVR come back for Thomson - is this a rumour or has it been confirmed?

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2790 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1878 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
If I were the sensitive sort, I might object the classification of San Diego as an "obscure point". We are not New York or Los Angeles -- and I'm just fine with that btw! -- but I think there are more than a few people around the globe who are familiar enough with us as a tourist destination to categorize us somewhere above "obscure"...  

No offence intended towards San Diego and it's fine citizens.   

I've spent considerable time visiting, staying always at the del Coronado or Coronado Island Marriott.   

In the context of Thomson and Tui modus operandi, San Diego would be as obscure a suggestion as Myrtle Beach; both familiar as a tourist destination, but not necessarily to the market Thomson cater for.

It was the suggestion of SAN being a Thomson destination that I referred to, not the city itself. Sorry if it came across differently.   

First beer's on me next visit!   

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinetomkell92 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2012, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Quoting FCAA321 (Reply 16):

Well I have heard from Thomson that they are operating Malaga (AGP), Faro (FAO) and Palma (PMI) from April 2013.
I knew that they were looking into Phuket and other places in Mexico, but didn't think that they have been confirmed.

I used to work for First Choice and was actually apart of the AMOS merger project - A program that planning engineers and tech records use a lot.



Tom Kellock
25 Post contains links blueshamu330s : Thailand available to book now for holidays departing from 1st Nov 2013 Rgds
26 FreshSide3 : Europeans are generally a lot more knowledgable of the USA than Americans are of Europe. Most Americans(except in AUS/SEA where there's a strong conn
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