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OAG Changes 12/7/2012: DL/F9/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

*4O LAS-TLC JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3
4O MIA-MEX JAN 1.4>1.9 FEB 1.4>1.9 MAR 1.4>1.8 APR 1.4>1.9 MAY 1.5>1.9 JUN 1.4>1.8 JUL 1.4>1.9 AUG 1.5>1.8
*4O SAT-MTY JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
4O SAT-TLC JAN 0.3>0.5 FEB 0.3>0.4 MAR 0.3>0.4 APR 0.3>0.4 MAY 0.3>0.4 JUN 0.3>0.4 JUL 0.3>0.4 AUG 0.3>0.4

9K ACK-HYA MAY 17>18
9K BOS-HYA MAY 3>1.8
9K SJU-EIS MAY 7>8 JUL 7>6 AUG 7>6
9K SJU-STT MAY 9>7 JUN 9>7 JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8
9K SJU-STX JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
9K SJU-VQS JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8
9K STT-SJU MAY 9>7 JUN 9>7 JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8
9K STX-SJU JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
9K VQS-SJU MAY 8>7

AC MIA-YUL FEB 1.0>0.9
AC PBI-YYZ FEB 2>1.8

*AM FAT-GDL JAN 0.4>0.7 FEB 0.3>0.2 MAR 0.4>0.2 APR 0.4>0 MAY 0.4>0 JUN 0.5>0 JUL 0.4>0 AUG 0.5>0

BB SJU-EIS JAN 3>1.7
BB SJU-STT JAN 5>4 FEB 5>4 MAR 5>4 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
BB SJU-STX JAN 5>4
BB SJU-VQS JAN 0.2>0
BB STT-SJU JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 7>6 MAY 7>6 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
BB STX-SJU JAN 4>3
BB VQS-SJU JAN 0.2>0

DL ATL-BTR MAR 7>8
DL ATL-CAE MAR 10>9 APR 10>9 MAY 10>9
DL ATL-CHA MAR 9>10
DL ATL-CRW MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4
DL ATL-ECP MAR 7>8
DL ATL-FAY MAR 9>8 APR 9>8 MAY 9>8
DL ATL-GPT MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5
DL ATL-IAH MAR 8>7 APR 8>7 MAY 8>7
DL ATL-LIT MAR 7>6 APR 7>6 MAY 7>6
DL ATL-PWM MAR 1.0>1.8
DL ATL-TRI MAR 8>7 APR 8>7 MAY 8>7
DL BNA-MSP MAR 6>5 APR 6>5
DL CLE-MSP MAR 5>4 APR 5>4
CVG starts to get hit
*DL CVG-IAD MAR 1.7>0.1 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0
*DL CVG-OMA MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0
DL DTW-FWA MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4
DL DTW-MLI MAR 4>3 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3
*DL SEA-PEK APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.6
DL SLC-BIL MAR 4>5
DL SLC-DTW MAR 4>5
DL SLC-PSP MAR 3>4
DL SLC-YVR MAR 1.8>1.9
DL SLC-YYC MAR 1.8>2

DY JFK-ARN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.4
DY JFK-OSL JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.4

EC EWR-ORY JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.7>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.8>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.9>0 JUL 1.8>0 AUG 1.9>0

I think I earned some I told you so points. You wonder how NK is doing.
**F9 DEN-AZA APR 1.0>0.3 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0

G4 AZA-LAS JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 BLI-OGG JUN 0.1>0.3 JUL 0.2>0.3 AUG 0.1>0.3
G4 LAS-HNL JUN 0.3>0.4 JUL 0.3>0.4 AUG 0.3>0.4

IB MIA-MAD FEB 1.1>1.0

LA MIA-GIG JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>0.4

LH ORD-DUS FEB 0.4>0.2

LW BRL-ORD JAN 0.4>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7 MAY 0>1.7 JUN 0>1.7 JUL 0>1.7 AUG 0>1.7
LW BRL-STL JAN 0.3>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3 MAY 0>3 JUN 0>3 JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3
LW DEC-ORD JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3 MAY 0>3 JUN 0>3 JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3
LW DEC-STL JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3 MAY 0>3 JUN 0>3 JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3
LW JBR-STL JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3 MAY 0>3 JUN 0>3 JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3

MU HNL-PVG FEB 0.4>0.6

NK ACY-FLL MAR 3>2
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
NK DEN-FLL JAN 1.0>0.5 FEB 1.0>0.5
NK FLL-ORD JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2
NK FLL-PAP MAR 0.8>1.0
*NK IAH-MCO MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

TA JFK-SAL MAR 1.6>1.7 APR 1.6>1.7 MAY 1.6>1.7 JUN 1.6>1.7 JUL 1.6>1.7 AUG 1.5>1.7

UA CLE-BTV MAR 1.0>0.7
UA DEN-FAR JAN 5>4
UA DEN-GJT JAN 6>5
UA DEN-ONT JAN 1.7>1.2
UA DEN-TUS MAR 5>6
UA EWR-YYZ MAR 10>9
UA IAH-CRP MAR 8>9
UA IAH-MEX MAR 9>8
UA LAX-HNL APR 6>5
UA LAX-KOA JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>1.8
UA LAX-KOA JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>1.8
UA LAX-PSP MAR 5>6
UA ORD-EWR MAR 14>15
UA ORD-OGG MAY 0.1>0
UA SFO-IAH MAR 9>10
UA SFO-KOA MAY 1.2>1.0
UA SFO-LAX MAR 12>13
UA SFO-ORD MAR 12>13
UA SFO-RDM MAR 3>2
UA SFO-SNA MAR 7>8

UN LAX-DME APR 0.3>0 MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0
UN LAX-VKO APR 0>0.2 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3
UN MIA-VKO APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

US CLT-JAX MAR 7>8
US CLT-PDX MAR 0.9>0.5
US DCA-NAS MAR 1.1>1.0
US DCA-PBI MAR 4>5
US DCA-YHZ MAR 0>0.1
US PHX-PVR AUG 3>1.8

VV JFK-KBP JUN 0.6>1.0 JUL 0.5>1.0 AUG 0.6>1.0

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9660 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I think I earned some I told you so points. You wonder how NK is doing.
**F9 DEN-AZA APR 1.0>0.3 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0

Seasonal change, why go to two airports in the hot summer months, best to keep it winter only and you then make money.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9492 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-IAD MAR 1.7>0.1 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0
*DL CVG-OMA MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0

well....this sucks...I wonder if US is going to increase service then....

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**F9 DEN-AZA APR 1.0>0.3 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0
Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 1):
Seasonal change, why go to two airports in the hot summer months, best to keep it winter only and you then make money.

I guess that makes sense. Does F9 operate seasonal coverage at PHX?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9428 times:

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I think I earned some I told you so points. You wonder how NK is doing.
**F9 DEN-AZA APR 1.0>0.3 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0

Seasonal change, why go to two airports in the hot summer months, best to keep it winter only and you then make money.

Is it really seasonal? Is that announced? Why was it previously for sale in the Summer? They just released their Summer schedule a few weeks ago.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9329 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-BIL MAR 4>5
DL SLC-DTW MAR 4>5
DL SLC-PSP MAR 3>4
DL SLC-YVR MAR 1.8>1.9
DL SLC-YYC MAR 1.8>2

I am happy to see PSP get 4 flights but at Spring Break they should fill easily


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-FWA MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4

This puzzles me. FWA-DTW is always full (high-70%, and often higher, LFs), and has been at 5x daily (aside from January/February, where DL always cuts back everywhere) for years, dating back to PMNW. And it's funny that DL is cutting back when spring travel season starts. I know that Eagle has been stealing DL's market share at FWA as of late, but has the bleed been this bad?

And one question remains that may solve the riddle: Is FWA-DTW still all CR2s, or is DL putting a CR7, CR9, or (gasp!) mainline on the route? If they do add larger planes on FWA-DTW, I wonder if FWA-ATL is next...



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9195 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
And one question remains that may solve the riddle: Is FWA-DTW still all CR2s, or is DL putting a CR7, CR9, or (gasp!) mainline on the route? If they do add larger planes on FWA-DTW, I wonder if FWA-ATL is next...

Nope. CR2s. It's possible they did the frequency change, but didn't refleet the types yet, although that is probably wishful thinking.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3792 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9152 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-CRW MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4

Mainline back at CRW! Going to 3x CR2 and 1 D95.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
This puzzles me. FWA-DTW is always full (high-70%, and often higher, LFs), and has been at 5x daily (aside from January/February, where DL always cuts back everywhere) for years, dating back to PMNW. And it's funny that DL is cutting back when spring travel season starts. I know that Eagle has been stealing DL's market share at FWA as of late, but has the bleed been this bad?

70% is far from an untouchable number. It's only one flight, I wouldn't worry too much about it.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9026 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

How many times has NK been on-again/off again on this route. Fares on DTW-DEN are great for making ski trips to CO, although not good for the airlines on the route.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):*DL CVG-IAD MAR 1.7>0.1 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0
*DL CVG-OMA MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0
well....this sucks...I wonder if US is going to increase service then....

I'm surprised DL was still flying CVG-IAD even up to now.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL SLC-BIL MAR 4>5
DL SLC-DTW MAR 4>5
DL SLC-PSP MAR 3>4
DL SLC-YVR MAR 1.8>1.9
DL SLC-YYC MAR 1.8>2
I am happy to see PSP get 4 flights but at Spring Break they should fill easily

Interestingly the 5th DTW-SLC flight will operate as a red-eye. 9pm departure out of DTW with an 11pm arrival in SLC, 12:30am departure from SLC with an arrival of 6am in DTW.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
This puzzles me. FWA-DTW is always full (high-70%, and often higher, LFs), and has been at 5x daily (aside from January/February, where DL always cuts back everywhere) for years, dating back to PMNW. And it's funny that DL is cutting back when spring travel season starts. I know that Eagle has been stealing DL's market share at FWA as of late, but has the bleed been this bad?

You're reading too much into this change. More or less keeping capacity at the levels flown through the winter.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
And one question remains that may solve the riddle: Is FWA-DTW still all CR2s, or is DL putting a CR7, CR9, or (gasp!) mainline on the route? If they do add larger planes on FWA-DTW, I wonder if FWA-ATL is next...

FWA is still all CRJ. It is likely to be that way for awhile. DTW-FWA is not a priority route to offer a 2-class product since it is such a short flight.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 7):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-CRW MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4
Mainline back at CRW! Going to 3x CR2 and 1 D95.

Wow, cool, and DC-9-50 at that too.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9004 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I think I earned some I told you so points. You wonder how NK is doing.
**F9 DEN-AZA APR 1.0>0.3 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

I could see F9 dumping DEN-AZA for the hot summer months, but NK will remain here.

And if F9 (per speculation here) does pull of DEN-DTW as NK moves in..... ??

And if such, would this be some beginning of some alignments going on between F9 and NK, since F9 is looking to get itself "separated" from current ownership?

Hmmmmm.......?

 


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8964 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 9):
And if F9 (per speculation here) does pull of DEN-DTW as NK moves in..... ??

And if such, would this be some beginning of some alignments going on between F9 and NK, since F9 is looking to get itself "separated" from current ownership?

NK has been on-again/off-again from DTW-DEN for at least 10-15 years. This is probably the 3rd restart of this route.
It has nothing to do with F9 or any "potential alignment"


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8963 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

How many times has NK been on-again/off again on this route. Fares on DTW-DEN are great for making ski trips to CO, although not good for the airlines on the route.

Twice I think. Is suspect they will drop this as soon as F9 surrenders which I would expect them to do very soon. I bet the bail out before NYE.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):*DL CVG-IAD MAR 1.7>0.1 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0
*DL CVG-OMA MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0
well....this sucks...I wonder if US is going to increase service then....

I'm surprised DL was still flying CVG-IAD even up to now.

You could put really any remaining non-hub where IAD is and I would say it is still a valid statement.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
Interestingly the 5th DTW-SLC flight will operate as a red-eye. 9pm departure out of DTW with an 11pm arrival in SLC, 12:30am departure from SLC with an arrival of 6am in DTW.

"Free" plane

Quoting point2point (Reply 9):
I could see F9 dumping DEN-AZA for the hot summer months, but NK will remain here.

Well, the question is why fly to two airports in Phoenix. It never made sense.

Quoting point2point (Reply 9):
And if F9 (per speculation here) does pull of DEN-DTW as NK moves in..... ??

As I hinted, I think that is a given.

Quoting point2point (Reply 9):
And if such, would this be some beginning of some alignments going on between F9 and NK, since F9 is looking to get itself "separated" from current ownership?

I think there are a few things going on. I think F9 would love for NK to buy them. I think that is pretty unlikely because NK has no reason to do that. I think we are seeing that if F9 croaks in DEN that NK probably will add a few more routes there. I think the other thing that is going on is that F9 is saying to Wall Street, we are the new ULCC in town and that is stealing some of the wind from NK. I think NK feels the need to show that they are successful and F9 is not. NK just kicked F9 out of AZA-DEN and now they picked a new market to do it in. I would not be surprised if NK knew about AZA when they loaded the new DEN route.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8935 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):*DL CVG-IAD MAR 1.7>0.1 APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0
*DL CVG-OMA MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0
well....this sucks...I wonder if US is going to increase service then....

I'm surprised DL was still flying CVG-IAD even up to now.

Indeed! I would be surprised if this moves the needle at all for US serving CVG-WAS. MAYBE DL might upgauge a bit on CVG-DCA if there is some "gotta have it" n/s demand for CVG-WAS that wouldn't just switch to UA ex-IAD and would be willing to trek all the way to DCA, but I wouldn't think US by any means.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6084 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8917 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
I am happy to see PSP get 4 flights but at Spring Break they should fill easily

PSP for spring break?? Never really thought of PSP as a spring break spot.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4548 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8914 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Time for F9 to move down I-75?

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Is it really seasonal? Is that announced? Why was it previously for sale in the Summer? They just released their Summer schedule a few weeks ago.
http://media.frontierairlines.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=5375

Doesn't appear that it was announced to be seasonal.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 13):
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
I am happy to see PSP get 4 flights but at Spring Break they should fill easily

PSP for spring break?? Never really thought of PSP as a spring break spot.

I'm not sure it is a college kid market, but that is definitely peak season for whatever reason.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Time for F9 to move down I-75?

Could be, but TOL is not going to do much beyond write them a check they spend in a few months. Maybe TOL-MCO.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
http://media.frontierairlines.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=5375

Doesn't appear that it was announced to be seasonal.

It wasn't. I'm just wondering whether this is F9 fanboy spin or if there is some concrete info that it will return. OTOH, F9 has said things were seasonal before and they never came back. NK pushed them out. Let's be honest.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8823 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
5 airlines now? They must expecting F9 to leave.
*NK DEN-DTW MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Time for F9 to move down I-75?

Could be, but TOL is not going to do much beyond write them a check they spend in a few months. Maybe TOL-MCO.

TOL has a SCASD grant to bring F9 to TOL, but F9 hasn't bit like they did up I-80/90 in SBN. And G4 already flies TOL-SFB.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8773 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AM FAT-GDL JAN 0.4>0.7 FEB 0.3>0.2 MAR 0.4>0.2 APR 0.4>0 MAY 0.4>0 JUN 0.5>0 JUL 0.4>0 AUG 0.5>0

Perhaps the start of another season of bouncing schedule adjustments? Have your fingers warmed up in case this starts happening every week or two again.

Quoting as739x (Reply 13):
PSP for spring break?? Never really thought of PSP as a spring break spot.

PSP was a popular spot until 1986 when an alcohol-fueled rampage by spring breakers happened. The city under Sonny Bono cracked down on spring breakers in the following years and it lost its popularity. But the last few years the city has started remarketing itself to spring breakers and it seems to be working.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22704 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8755 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 12):
MAYBE DL might upgauge a bit on CVG-DCA if there is some "gotta have it" n/s demand for CVG-WAS that wouldn't just switch to UA ex-IAD and would be willing to trek all the way to DCA, but I wouldn't think US by any means.

I'd think that any "gotta have it" demand on CVG-IAD needs to go somewhere out by Dulles and will switch to UA regardless of what DL or US does with DCA service.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8683 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I'd think that any "gotta have it" demand on CVG-IAD needs to go somewhere out by Dulles and will switch to UA regardless of what DL or US does with DCA service.

That was my point - the only possible way this impacts CVG-DCA is if there is such demand, and I don't think there is any that wouldn't just go UA if n/s specifically on IAD-CVG is critical.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1686 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8661 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):

FWA is too small of a market to support mainline service. Losing one flight a day is far from being a big deal. Just right sizing capacity for the season. Also, just because you see a flight go out at 70% full doesn't mean that's anywhere near profitable. FWA perhaps is a low-yielding destination.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
TOL has a SCASD grant to bring F9 to TOL, but F9 hasn't bit like they did up I-80/90 in SBN. And G4 already flies TOL-SFB.

Yup, but I think F9 believes they win to MCO against SFB. Whether that is true or not is a matter of conjecture.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):
Perhaps the start of another season of bouncing schedule adjustments? Have your fingers warmed up in case this starts happening every week or two again.

Probably  
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):
until 1986 when an alcohol-fueled rampage by spring breakers

Sounds like a typical Spring Break to me


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8055 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):
PSP was a popular spot until 1986 when an alcohol-fueled rampage by spring breakers happened. The city under Sonny Bono cracked down on spring breakers in the following years and it lost its popularity. But the last few years the city has started remarketing itself to spring breakers and it seems to be working.

definitely. With alot of peoples parents refusing to let them travel to Mexico you see alot of domestic cities regaining spring breakers and Palm Springs certainly is one


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7660 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 17):
PSP was a popular spot until 1986 when an alcohol-fueled rampage by spring breakers happened. The city under Sonny Bono cracked down on spring breakers in the following years and it lost its popularity. But the last few years the city has started remarketing itself to spring breakers and it seems to be working.

definitely. With alot of peoples parents refusing to let them travel to Mexico you see alot of domestic cities regaining spring breakers and Palm Springs certainly is one

Palm Springs?!? Spring breakers don't visit upscale resort towns that cater to the over-40 crowd with no beaches and lacking all-inclusive resorts who's primary attraction is golf and spas. That's not spring break.



a.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7396 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 20):
Also, just because you see a flight go out at 70% full doesn't mean that's anywhere near profitable. FWA perhaps is a low-yielding destination.

FWA is far from low-yielding - it's 75% business travel, often with fares to match (though FWA often comes out cheaper in the end when you add it up). Even G4's FWA-PGD flights command a fare premium over other G4 PGD routes. And last time I checked in fall 2010, FWA-DTW was 76% full (and all-airline average LFs at FWA have only gone up to the 82-84% range since).

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 20):
FWA is too small of a market to support mainline service.

Then how come FWA saw mainline DC-9s from NW to DTW until 2003 and 732s on DL to ATL until 1997?  

Keep in mind that FWA loses 60% of potential pax to other airports, so there is potential for market stimulation. Still, I think that when DL starts the 50-seat drawdown with routes between 450 and 750 miles (FWA-ATL and FWA-MSP are two of those 50-seater routes), I could see FWA-MSP switched to 9E CR9s to feed the 9E FWA MX base. As for FWA-ATL, it's anyone's guess on who will operate it because 9E is pulling the CR9 out of ATL. But I could see the 3 daily CR2s switched out for an equal amount of CR7s, 2 CR9s, or 2 717s.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 24):
Then how come FWA saw mainline DC-9s from NW to DTW until 2003 and 732s on DL to ATL until 1997?

Now I am not implying anything, all I am saying is that that was now about 10 years ago, things change, its not fair to compare that long ago anymore.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7465 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 23):
Palm Springs?!? Spring breakers don't visit upscale resort towns that cater to the over-40 crowd with no beaches and lacking all-inclusive resorts who's primary attraction is golf and spas. That's not spring break.

They are not playing golf or using the spas. Resorts like Vegas, Palm Springs, and Lake Havasu City are very popular again. They get wasted by the pools at hotels and drink in their rooms. They put a ton of people in a room and many use parents points or stay at cheaper places. Go look how many websites and photos are up now of palm springs for spring break. My little brother went to Palm Springs two years ago for Sprign Break and loved it many people are going to places like lake havasu city, palm springs, and vegas because mexico seems to dangerous its good domestic options in the western US.


User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

Im getting so tired of NK..how many routes have they started then stopped after like 2 months. F9 has done very solid business from DTW with little advertising ive seen. They just dropped from 3 Daily to 2 Daily and now i hear 1 Daily for the winter but back up to 2 or 3 in the Spring. Ive watched their loads for the last two years and the midday flight and the PM flight (now gone) were always completely soldout. The only one open sometimes was the 6am return of the RON to DEN. The reverse flights from DEN-DTW always appeared full. I sincerely hope they hang on here and add MCO twice daily once they get established there. This NK route will be gone by February and NK has become a horrid shadow of its former self..most people know that by now, especially in DTW as we were where they began operations back in the mid-90's. I actually dont think WN is doing well on their DTWDEN route either so maybe they will bounce. DL doesnt fill their planes, neither did NW to DEN so hang on F9 and you can make this route survive then grow here, its desperately needed.

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3792 posts, RR: 7
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 24):
Then how come FWA saw mainline DC-9s from NW to DTW until 2003 and 732s on DL to ATL until 1997?  

All true, but no longer relevant. The industry and the airlines have changed quite a bit. Most that have been around know that NW was slinging mainline to every paved strip in michigan and the midwest for a while. I would be floored if the loads on those mainline flights were above 60%. That's not anything against FWA, it's just how things used to be.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 24):
Keep in mind that FWA loses 60% of potential pax to other airports, so there is potential for market stimulation. Still, I think that when DL starts the 50-seat drawdown with routes between 450 and 750 miles (FWA-ATL and FWA-MSP are two of those 50-seater routes), I could see FWA-MSP switched to 9E CR9s to feed the 9E FWA MX base. As for FWA-ATL, it's anyone's guess on who will operate it because 9E is pulling the CR9 out of ATL. But I could see the 3 daily CR2s switched out for an equal amount of CR7s, 2 CR9s, or 2 717s.

I don't think DL wants to stimulate any markets. It takes lower fares to do that on a meaningful scale. I agree with everything else you said there.

I think there will be enough 50 seaters around to sustain frequency in some markets that are too short for 1 flight and not large enough to support 2 or 3x CR7. If not, some things are just going to go away (CRW-DTW comes to mind)


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
I think there will be enough 50 seaters around to sustain frequency in some markets that are too short for 1 flight and not large enough to support 2 or 3x CR7.
DL plans on keeping 150 or so 50-seaters around (not sure of the exact number), but I think that they will probably be used on:
-High-frequency (4x+/day) flights between 100 and 450 miles (DL says that the CR2 becomes unprofitable after 450 miles), but intermixed with larger aircraft
-Flights that can only support one CR2 a day, but only between 100 and 450 miles (others will get the axe)
-EAS routes
-Flights bound by local or federal government restrictions (ATL-DAL comes to mind until mid-2014)

[Edited 2012-12-03 16:00:16]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

Alot of those inter-Michigan and inter-midwest from DTW routes were very full.
DTW to all the markets showcased below often had overbooking situations requiring volunteers and as you can see they are now decimated for the most part. The people were there, and probably still are

Im showing how many Daily were once in these markets, and granted not all these were on DC9's, some were Saab ..im using 2001/02 for the time frame.
Now DL operates basically a 6 bank setup from DTW

DTWGRR was 12xDAILY now 9DAILY (8RJ/2A320)
DTWAZO was 10xDAILY now 6DAILY (ALL RJ)
DTWLAN was 12xDAILY now 6DAILY (ALL RJ)
DTWMBS was 12xDAILY now 6DAILY (ALL RJ)
DTWFNT was 10xDAILY now 3DAILY (ALL RJ)
DTWTVC was 8xDAILY now 5DAILY (ALL RJ)
DTWSBN was 9xDAILY now 5DAILY (ALL RJ)


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6906 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 23):
Palm Springs?!? Spring breakers don't visit upscale resort towns that cater to the over-40 crowd with no beaches and lacking all-inclusive resorts who's primary attraction is golf and spas. That's not spring break.

Check out hotel listings like the Hyatt Regency in Palm Springs. That property and others have started adding lines that specifically say "Minimum Spring Break check-in age is 18 years old" instead of just saying minimum check-in age. Why mention it specifically for spring break unless you get bookings that are a concern.

Here is a 2009 CBS report. Check out the college kids in the PSP area pools, plenty of plasic cups in hand.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4887213n



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6575 times:

Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 1):
Seasonal change, why go to two airports in the hot summer months, best to keep it winter only and you then make money.
Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Well, the question is why fly to two airports in Phoenix. It never made sense.

Per F9's website AZA will be seasonal, current services ends April 8, 2013


User currently offlinerangercarp From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):

Interestingly the 5th DTW-SLC flight will operate as a red-eye. 9pm departure out of DTW with an 11pm arrival in SLC, 12:30am departure from SLC with an arrival of 6am in DTW.

Glad tho hear this. It gives me another option to leave the west coast in the evening and still make it to work in the morning.



iwgbtp!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6020 times:

Quoting rangercarp (Reply 33):
Glad tho hear this. It gives me another option to leave the west coast in the evening and still make it to work in the morning.

Delta has never been big on a red eye bank at SLC I think you will see some decent length layovers just by the design of the schedule. Will be interesting to see how it performs but probably pretty easy to fill with misconnects alone going to such a big hub (DTW) in March. The JFK and ATL red eyes i often see tons of people who missed connections to other cities it should be nice to have and nice for the agents to have another red eye to get people out on and to their destination earlier.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5905 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 9):
And if F9 (per speculation here) does pull of DEN-DTW as NK moves in..... ??

I'm not sure where that's coming from - just speculation? - but there appears to be some discrepancies between what is posted here and what actually is actually happening at Frontier.

Two weeks ago, for example, we had this:

OAG Changes 11/23/2012: AA/B6/DL/F9/UA/US (by enilria Nov 20 2012 in Civil Aviation)

They are cutting back TTN??? They just announced more flights.
*F9 MCO-TTN FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.2 APR 0.3>0.1


But that reduction is not reflected in the website booking engine, which still has MCO-TTN as 4 x weekly for the entire booking period, into July.

I suppose it is possible that Frontier has told the OAG something it hasn't told itself, and it may yet change, but it seems both odd and late.

Or maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly, but the poster does say "cutting back."

On the other hand, I haven't seen the increased COU-MCO service (from 2 to 3 x weekly in April) in these OAG threads, as it is in the booking engine, but I've been away and have only made a superficial search.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 34):
Delta has never been big on a red eye bank at SLC I think you will see some decent length layovers just by the design of the schedule

The DTW-SLC flight in the 9pm departure bank enables better late afternoon/evening connections originating on the east coast / midwest. Passengers can departe their originating city on flights between 5pm-7pm and still get into SLC that night.

The SLC-DTW 12:30am redeye will not really help with connections over SLC since the latest arrivals from west coast get into SLC between 8-9pm, leaving 3-4 hour layovers. It does have appeal with skiers who can ski a full day, get dinner, pack-up, and forgo the cost of an additional night and arrive back on the east coast in the morning.


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UN LAX-DME APR 0.3>0 MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0
UN LAX-VKO APR 0>0.2 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3
UN MIA-VKO APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Anyone else wonder why Transaero is switching airports in Moscow? Was there some sort of announcement about this? Also, will they fly both MIA-DME and MIA-VKO, since MIA-DME is not showing as ending here?



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 27):

Im getting so tired of NK..how many routes have they started then stopped after like 2 months. F9 has done very solid business from DTW with little advertising ive seen.

They did run F9 out of DEN-AZA...

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 27):
and now i hear 1 Daily for the winter but back up to 2 or 3 in the Spring.
Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
I suppose it is possible that Frontier has told the OAG something it hasn't told itself, and it may yet change, but it seems both odd and late.

If the cutback on DTW-DEN is incorrect it appears that NK also saw it and responded. If it is merely a mistake by F9 then it was a monumental one as it clearly led to NK adding a flight.

This report is fully automated. There is no manual intervention. OTOH, there is nothing that says that F9's internal schedule must match either their internal schedule or the one sold on Expedia, etc. F9 sends a separate schedule file to all of them. Here are the reasons why there could be differences:

1) There is a minimum change required to make this report and because F9 is often non-daily they are on the edge of it. Thus, if F9 drops from 5/wk to 3/wk then it will probably appear here, but if they add back the 4th the next week and the 5th the following week the adds would not make the filter.

2) If one week they did this JAN 0.4>0.3 FEB 04.>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 it would normally not meet the frequency filter, but because they extended the schedule in March the other months are shown. If they reversed the change on JAN/FEB the following month, it would not appear because no month has a change large enough.

3) This is a common problem. Internally carriers use equipment codes that are not industry standard. For example, if F9 was adding a row of seats to A319s they might use 31L as an internal code so that the revenue management system would know to sell 6 more seats only on those flights. OAG would not recognize 31L so F9 would need to correct the code in the external schedule. Often carriers forget to do this and OAG marks the flight invalid and hides it. The flights can still show up in Expedia or Travelocity, etc. for several reasons. First, F9 is on Sabre, so if the OTA (online travel agency) uses Sabre they can simply mirror the schedule on the F9 internal Sabre system avoiding OAG. Second, since the schedule is also sent directly to the OTAs, they might not do error checking to the extent that OAG does.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 29):
DL plans on keeping 150 or so 50-seaters around (not sure of the exact number), but I think that they will probably be used on:

I hear they will get rid of all they can contractually get rid of, so 150 appears the be the minimum that they are currently committed to. Look for them to renegotiate to lower that number.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 30):

Alot of those inter-Michigan

What happens with FNT now that WN is changing routes will be interesting.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 32):

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Well, the question is why fly to two airports in Phoenix. It never made sense.

Per F9's website AZA will be seasonal, current services ends April 8, 2013

What is the resumption date? If there is no resumption date I have my doubts... NK isn't dropping the route for the Summer.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2208 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 31):
Check out hotel listings like the Hyatt Regency in Palm Springs. That property and others have started adding lines that specifically say "Minimum Spring Break check-in age is 18 years old" instead of just saying minimum check-in age. Why mention it specifically for spring break unless you get bookings that are a concern.

Remember that high school seniors and college students are not the only people travelling during spring break. A lot of families take vacations at that time, too. Palm Springs does have some family oriented attractions, like the water parks, mini golf courses, and Palm Desert's Living Desert Reserve zoo.

Also, there are a lot of retirees who live in Palm Springs / Coachella Valley. Spring Break is a great time for familes who want a warm weather vacation to fly to PSP for a visit with Grandma and Grandpa. I was one of them - the first flight I can remember was at Spring Break 1974, flying home from a visit to my grandparents on an AA DC-10 PSP-PHX-ORD-DTW  



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4772 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
If the cutback on DTW-DEN is incorrect it appears that NK also saw it and responded. If it is merely a mistake by F9 then it was a monumental one as it clearly led to NK adding a flight.


The DEN-DTW scheduling has not changed in the booking engine since well before I went away, so I would hope that Spirit did a little more research than just looking at OAG.

But - who knows?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4550 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
What is the resumption date? If there is no resumption date I have my doubts... NK isn't dropping the route for the Summer.

F9 current schedule is only open till July 10th. If the flight does resume it probably will be in October


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32596 posts, RR: 72
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 37):
Anyone else wonder why Transaero is switching airports in Moscow?

No room at DME. Transaero started moving some flying to Vnukovo around October, IIRC.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 37):
Also, will they fly both MIA-DME and MIA-VKO, since MIA-DME is not showing as ending here?

Yes, but it's not a service increase; one of two weekly MIA-DME is moving to VKO.

The new MIA schedule is all kinds of weird, though. Looks like 744s will move between Vnukovo and Domodedovo via Miami, so sometimes an incoming VKO flight returns to DME. On some weeks, there is an incoming from DME, but no outbound to DME, and visa-versa.


For on week in late July, for example, Wednesday operates VKO-MIA-DME and Saturday operates VKO-MIA-VKO.
I guess they don't expect people to leave their cars at the airport (though, to be fair, that's not as common in Europe as in the States).

[Edited 2012-12-04 17:11:51]


a.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
If the cutback on DTW-DEN is incorrect it appears that NK also saw it and responded. If it is merely a mistake by F9 then it was a monumental one as it clearly led to NK adding a flight.


The DEN-DTW scheduling has not changed in the booking engine since well before I went away, so I would hope that Spirit did a little more research than just looking at OAG.

But - who knows?

FYI doing a little research, it appears that F9 loaded the AZA drop into OAG on Thursday, but Spirit didn't load their change till Sunday. So there is the possibility that NK saw F9 retreating and decided to attack another route...or could be coincidence. NK moves extremely quickly, however.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4374 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 43):
FYI doing a little research, it appears that F9 loaded the AZA drop into OAG on Thursday, but Spirit didn't load their change till Sunday. So there is the possibility that NK saw F9 retreating and decided to attack another route...or could be coincidence. NK moves extremely quickly, however.

I'd suggest coincidence, but I'm aware of your affection for Fight Club rules.

Fairly obviously, DTW-DEN is a route that has been in Spirit's mind for some considerable time:

Spirit Airlines Announces New ACY And DEN Service (by BA Apr 24 2002 in Civil Aviation)

"Apr 19, 2002

Spirit Airlines Launches New Service at Denver International

Beginning May 9, 2002, Spirit offers three daily flights from Denver International Airport serving Detroit, Mich. and Fort Lauderdale, Fla. with non-stop service as well as one-stop, same plane service to New York / LaGuardia."


Given that history, perhaps Spirit might be looking at DEN-FLL as well.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):
Fairly obviously, DTW-DEN is a route that has been in Spirit's mind for some considerable time:

Spirit Airlines Announces New ACY And DEN Service

Few airlines are eager to add back a route they have previously dropped. Usually, it goes the opposite way.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4012 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
Few airlines are eager to add back a route they have previously dropped. Usually, it goes the opposite way.

Obviously, Spirit is:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
NK has been on-again/off-again from DTW-DEN for at least 10-15 years. This is probably the 3rd restart of this route.

With which you agreed:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Twice I think.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

OP ANNOUNCEMENT:
There was no update this week by OAG to the database. I don't know if that is a mistake or if no large carrier submitted a schedule and thus it did not trigger an update. This is the second time this year it has happened. So, I apologize that it appears there will be no update this week. Another possibility is that it may be related to the holidays in which case there could be another week skipped before the end of the year.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5360 posts, RR: 7
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Sounds as if the Christmas holiday has come early in the scheduling shops..


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 48):

Sounds as if the Christmas holiday has come early in the scheduling shops..

Could be. The good news is that I saved last week's data, so the next time they update the database I will show all accumulated changes.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5360 posts, RR: 7
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 49):
so the next time they update the database I will show all accumulated changes.

As long as you've got a week off ... how difficult a process is this for you?



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7167 posts, RR: 17
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 50):
As long as you've got a week off ... how difficult a process is this for you?

There's a very good reason why E is on my respected user's list  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineQ From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

It should be read easier than MAR 7>8

I would like to write like this:

March=7 April=8 (increased)

March=8 April=7 (decreased)

Thanks,
Q


User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2761 posts, RR: 33
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting Q (Reply 52):
It should be read easier than MAR 7>8

I would like to write like this:

March=7 April=8 (increased)

March=8 April=7 (decreased)

The current format is easy to read. Just don't read the > sign as "is greater than", but rather "going to".
MAR 7>8

For March, going from 7 to 8.

MAR 8>7

For March, going from 8 to 7.



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