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Atlantic Canada-Europe: An Abandoned Market?  
User currently offlineKLAM From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8946 times:

I somehow started this discussion on another thread, but thought that this topic deserves special attention. I have to get to YHZ in the next few months and I've been looking for a flight from AMS. Turns out that my options involve flying two airlines that do not codeshare (i.e. KL/BA to LHR and then AC to YHZ or KL to YYZ/YUL and then Westjet) or doing two stops (LH to YYZ). I really don't mind flying and I do not expect that by posting this airlines will start flying between europe and Atlantic Canada. I just want to ask a few questions and I hope I don't get flamed for asking them as I am no economist and understand little about supply and demand, and airlines deffinitely know better than I do. At any rate, here's my doubt:

The only two flights that connect Atlantic Canada to Europe are AC's seasonal service between YYT and LHR, and AC's flight from YHZ to LHR. Now, I understand that cities like St.John's or Halifax might not have great yields, nevertheless I think they are close enough to Europe to be strategic points. If someone from YYT wants to fly to let's say Paris or Rome, they need to fly for @1.5-2 hours to Toronto or Montreal, and then connect to fly for another 7-8 hours. Other less popular destinations like Lisbon, Madrid, or even Bucharest would require two stops or changing airlines. (I guess United is always a great option, though). So I started thinking if airlines like EI, KL or BA would be interested in flying their smaller birds (A319/738/73G) into YYT or YHZ (I don't know if range would allow) in order to allow passengers from these places to connect to europe through hubs such as LHR, DUB or AMS. I know medium haul aircraft are not equipped to transport passengers with the best comfort, but I think it would be quite cool to see European airlines operating their baby planes into America as if they were flying to any other European destination!


flyOM
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMattH From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

I can't contribute much to the discussion, aside from pointing out that YHZ has recently increased the runway length of 05/23, from 8800ft to 10,500ft.

This may open the door for more EU connections next summer, which has traditionally been the time when Condor, Thomas Cook & Icelandair start their seasonal service.

Of note is that Finnair does stop here in the winter (757); it is a tech stop, only for fuel and catering, before continuing onwards to the Carribean, or back to Helsinki.



"Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8777 times:
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Yields stink. There is no business traffic. It is all Canadians going to visit the UK or Germans visiting The Maritimes

About 20-25 years ago KL flew a D10 on YHZ-AMS once per week or so. I think CP might have also flown AMS from YHZ about 1-2x per week

Wardair was never big in YHZ


User currently offlineKLAM From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

Quoting MattH (Reply 1):
This may open the door for more EU connections next summer, which has traditionally been the time when Condor, Thomas Cook & Icelandair start their seasonal service.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
About 20-25 years ago KL flew a D10 on YHZ-AMS once per week or so. I think CP might have also flown AMS from YHZ about 1-2x per week

This sounds like it's been tried before, but with today's a/c it will maybe be a whole different story!

Nevertheless...

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
Yields stink. There is no business traffic.



flyOM
User currently offlinewpigott From Canada, joined Oct 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8593 times:

Quoting KLAM (Reply 3):
About 20-25 years ago KL flew a D10 on YHZ-AMS once per week or so.

I believe KL went YOW-YHZ-AMS to capture some more passengers, also I've heard that a big part of the route was moving lobsters from Atlantic Canada to Europe. That could be an option to increase yields, start in a bigger small airport in Canada like YWG or YOW then stopping in YHZ or YYT before going onto Europe.

Similar ideas have been thrown around at YQB to add CDG, going YOW-YQB-CDG. There is a lot of PAX between Quebec and Paris, right now YUL, the largest city, is the only city in Quebec with year round mainline services to CDG, while YQB and Gatineau (served by YOW) are the 2 largest cities in Quebec outside of the YUL area.


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 863 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8346 times:

In Summer 1984 CPAir operated:

- dep. 23.55 YHZ - arr. 10.45 AMS CP298 JCY D10 Monday
- dep. 14.30 AMS - arr. 16.05 YHZ CP297 JCY D10 Monday

This flight was operated by B747 in September 1984. In those days CPAir operated Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Halifax via Amsterdam to Rome and Milan

In Summer 1995 KLM & Martinair operated:

- dep. 10.50 AMS - arr. 12.45 YHZ dep. 13.40 - arr. 14.35 YOW KL/MP675 CM B767 Wed, Fri, Sun
- dep. 16.05 YOW - arr. 18.50 YHZ dep. 20.00 - arr. 07.05 AMS KL/MP676 CM B767 Wed, Fri, Sun

This flight was operating using a higher density MP B767 and replaced the KL B767 & D10 which had operated the flight previous seasons.


User currently offlinewatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8299 times:

YUL is only about an hour or so west of YHZ, YYG, etc., so it's not that bad. I've routinely done LHR/FRA/BCN/MAD-YUL-(maritimes airports), and they are fairly doable. It's when you have to fly all the way to YYZ things get a bit crazy. That extra hour to YYZ by bypassing YUL really adds up.

User currently offlinematt From Canada, joined May 1999, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8106 times:

I live in Atlantic Canada and fly to Europe very regularly. There is nothing more I would love than to have more direct flights to Europe, but I fully understand that 1) this has been tried; 2) ... and yields are just not high enough.

So yes, we still have YHZ-LHR, which is practical, but I often end up flying to YUL (or YYZ) and EWR to catch my flights to Europe. I have also tried Icelandair, which has seasonal flights between YHZ and KEF. A good experience altogether.

KL started flying the YOW-YHZ-AMS route in the late 90s with the 743 and then later the D10. An MP 763 took over a few years later, on behalf of KL. Those were amazing years as flying to AMS and connecting to tons of destinations was very practical.

Of course there are charters, but those are 1) not practical; 2) mostly for VFRs. Halifax has had several airlines (currently the have Condor and Air Transat). YQM (Moncton, NB) has also had charter flights to Europe (Condor to HAJ with 753; Corsair to ORY with 743 and then 332). As for YFC (Fredericton, NB), it has had summer charter service to LGW (Air Transat 310).



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8079 times:

Unfortunately, outside of LHR, there just isn't enough demand for any legacy carrier to fly from Atlantic Canada to Europe.

When we wanted to send my grandparents from PEI to Paris in 1994, we found that YYG-BOS-CDG was actually the best option. That was back when NW had a hub in BOS.

Now, the best option would likely be via JFK (DL) or YUL (AC).

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it is an abandoned market. It just has never been heavily (or even moderately) served from anywhere outside of Canada.

YHZ has usually been the recipient of any international (including transborder) services to this region. That market has been tried over the past 3-4 years by several US airlines from several of their hubs. I would go so far as to say that transborder service is as strong from YHZ as it ever has been.

Regarding transatlantic service from YHZ, it is also as strong as it has ever normally been. Except for the two seasonal flights mentioned by bobloblaw and factsonly, LHR service is all that has been tried from YHZ.

YYT is also as heavily served as it ever has been. The UA (formerly CO) flight to EWR is the only transborder route, and the AC flight to LHR is the only transatlantic route.

Personally, I wouldn't find it horribly inconvenient to go via YUL or BOS to YHZ, whereas I would find it inconvenient to fly all the way to YYZ and then backtrack to YYT.

Of course, to fly direct from Europe to either YYT or YHZ, you would have to transit LHR (on 2 different carriers). That might be the worst option according to some here on a.net!



LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7459 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

Quoting KLAM (Thread starter):
So I started thinking if airlines like EI, KL or BA would be interested in flying their smaller birds (A319/738/73G) into YYT or YHZ (I don't know if range would allow) in order to allow passengers from these places to connect to europe through hubs such as LHR, DUB or AMS.

One factor that will almost certainly ensure that BA will not operate such a service is the LHR slot situation. If BA had an LHR slot available for a new long haul flight it seems most likely they would use it on one of many routes not currently operated that would support a BA 772 service rather than a service with a significantly smaller aircraft, particularly one where the yields are probably not that good.

As to EI or KL . . . Who knows?


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7734 times:

YHZ should talk to U2 to see how open-minded they are for a BFS-YHZ and/or GLA-YHZ as LTN-YHZ could be too far of a range for one of its ETOPS aircraft.
That would work wonders flying to Europe if at least U2 could offer passenger check-in at BFS or GLA or LTN after baggage re-claim and custom areas.
Same with WS offering passenger check-in @ YHZ after baggage re-claim and customs as a courtesy for U2 arriving passengers.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineKLAM From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

I really did not know that YUL-Atlantic provinces was not as long. I really think that Atlantic Canadian Airports could serve PTY-style or KEF-style hubs for airlines like Westjet who only have smaller aircraft, but that's just my inexpert view on the matter!


flyOM
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

If you wish to fly to the maritime provinces you could try going to BOS and then continuing to YHZ. But there does seem to be a lack of options probably due to lack of demand and the size of the cities in eastern Canada.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineSamuP From Colombia, joined Jul 2010, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7011 times:

I lived in YYZ for a long time and used AC for transatlantic flights regularly.

If you ask me, the problem here is the lack of intra-europe Star-Alliance connectivity from LHR. Granted all European *A members fly from their hubs and secondary hubs to LHR, but there is no *A connection to important European capitals like Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Rome.

You'd argue AC flies from YYZ to most of these cities, or you could use United via EWR or IAD, but that's quite inconvenient for most business travelers since your YYZ-USA flight departs around noon.

Then again, there is all the YHZ, YOW traffic that pretty much has to to fly O&D to LHR.

I'm sorry KLAM, been there before. But, have you tried UA AMS-EWR-YHZ?

Best of luck!


User currently offlineDariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6953 times:

My best advice would be to route DUS-LHR on Lufthansa and then connect to AC on your way to YHZ.

Might also want to try AMS-JFK on Delta or KLM and then connect to Halifax on Delta. Might be a hassle trying to get through customs though.

[Edited 2012-12-04 11:44:53]


Darius Bieber
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5577 times:
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I am surprised that AC doesnt do YHZ-FRA with the FRA Star Alliance hub. Say summer 3x per week. Yields must be too low. LHR isnt a good place to connect for AC pax going beyond LHR to the continent.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4923 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
I am surprised that AC doesnt do YHZ-FRA with the FRA Star Alliance hub. Say summer 3x per week. Yields must be too low. LHR isnt a good place to connect for AC pax going beyond LHR to the continent.

This is an excellent point, and one I recently rose in a "Town Hall" meeting with the marketing types from HQ. The answer surprised me!

The main reason why the transatlantic destination from either YHZ or YYT is LHR, is because that is the ultimate destination of the majority of the passengers. The ethnic British ties from Canada's Atlantic provinces is very high, and the vast majority of the passengers are VFR from either end. Atlantic Canadians "going home for a visit", or family from "back home" coming to Canada to visit.

There is very little connection traffic to the rest of Europe. While yes there is business traffic from Atlantic Canada, and yes often Atlantic Canadians wish to travel to other than the UK, but they are in the vast minority. (They had the numbers to back up their claims.)

One thing they did say, is something I mentioned on another thread, and that is the YYT-LHR seasonal operation, operates at a loss. It was placed there under extreme public pressure. The only thing that keeps is from losing even more is that most of the traffic is O&D, keeping the yields higher. If fares had to be "shared" due to connections, then the yield would be abysmal!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinematt From Canada, joined May 1999, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
I am surprised that AC doesnt do YHZ-FRA with the FRA Star Alliance hub. Say summer 3x per week. Yields must be too low. LHR isnt a good place to connect for AC pax going beyond LHR to the continent.

I know that AC has already operated this route (1997, I believe, but maybe after as well). The flight went YUL-YHZ-FRA and was operated 6 times a week in the summer. It seems to me that AC also operated YHZ-FRA on a 2- or 3-flight-a-week basis in the early 2000s.

I would personally love to see YHZ-LHR replaced by YHZ-FRA year-round. So many more Star Alliance connections would be possible. For now, it's either through YUL (AC and Star) or EWR (UA).



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineHBGDS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Is your point that even the summer market is down? I remember SR would rent a DC-10-30 (HB-IHP) for the summer servicing of Montreal. Flights were filled to the brim. The service would stop some time in September, ahead of the winter hour change.

User currently offlineStratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

I've used AC LHR-YHZ-BOS to get *A miles - adds a couple of hours, although the time in Halifax is productive in that you clear US customs there. My limited experience found the 767 to be quite full.

YHZ - FRA seems like an decent opportunity for a *A 757 operation - a la UA or US thin route strategy - but unfortunately neither LH or AC operates the type. Is it outside the range of the A319 AC uses YYT-LHR?


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1986 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

Good market for FI if they move away from 752s. Serve YYT and YHZ. And funnel those pax to several European destinations.

This is why I think FI has a lot of potential. Serve lots of smaller US centres too.


User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
YYT-LHR seasonal operation, operates at a loss. It was placed there under extreme public pressure.

Hmmm...I'm a little surprised to hear that. We had a VP down here last month who said that the YYT-LHR flight was indeed a profitable run and that it looked like it was going to be added as a year round route instead of seasonal, albeit 2-3X weekly during the winter. They are trying to plan out the cycling of only having 2 A319's on the route.



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
Yields stink. There is no business traffic.

There are only about 2.5M Canadians living in Atl Canada...about 7% of the population, and they have a poor economy, heavily subsidized by the rest of Canada. There is little economic growth, relatively little business activity and really no new opportunity for any TA flights. As longhauler said, the YHZ-LHR market is sustained by ethnic traffic.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
I am surprised that AC doesnt do YHZ-FRA with the FRA Star Alliance hub. Say summer 3x per week. Yields must be too low. LHR isnt a good place to connect for AC pax going beyond LHR to the continent.

This is an excellent point, and one I recently rose in a "Town Hall" meeting with the marketing types from HQ. The answer surprised me!

The main reason why the transatlantic destination from either YHZ or YYT is LHR, is because that is the ultimate destination of the majority of the passengers. The ethnic British ties from Canada's Atlantic provinces is very high, and the vast majority of the passengers are VFR from either end. Atlantic Canadians "going home for a visit", or family from "back home" coming to Canada to visit.

On a related note, I'm surprised AC does not offer YEG-FRA. Indeed, even YWG-LHR/FRA. YWG is the largest city in Canada without sked TA service.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
One thing they did say, is something I mentioned on another thread, and that is the YYT-LHR seasonal operation, operates at a loss. It was placed there under extreme public pressure.

What a way to run an airline. Screw the public pressure. Ditch the route if its losing money. Who's making route decisions for this airline? Imbeciles? Small children?

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 21):
We had a VP down here last month who said that the YYT-LHR flight was indeed a profitable run

I dount it's profitable. MOST AC routes lose money (on a fully burdened basis), hence its never-ending losses. Remember: an airline breaking even would have 50% of its routes (or route network) making money and the other 50% losing money. I would suspect 70% or more of AC's routes (or route network) actually loses money on a fully cost-burdened basis. I strongly suspect YYT-LHR is not a winner.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4923 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 21):
Hmmm...I'm a little surprised to hear that. We had a VP down here last month who said that the YYT-LHR flight was indeed a profitable run and that it looked like it was going to be added as a year round route instead of seasonal, albeit 2-3X weekly during the winter. They are trying to plan out the cycling of only having 2 A319's on the route.

I think it depends on which column you are looking at, or possibly which VP you are talking to.

If you just consider the operating cost of an A319, mixed in with all the other A319s, then take an average ... then only consider that average hourly operational cost, then yes, I can see how an argument for profitability can be made. But this talk was referring to the additional costs of the ETOPS operation.

We were told of the costs of initial training for an exclusive base to ETOPS standards, then maintain those pilots to ETOPS standards with additional recurrent training, then maintain the aircraft to ETOPS standards. Then they mentioned the initial outlay of about $1M each for the reconfiguration of the aircraft, and the crewing issues for the operation when irregular ops occur. (not just any A319 crew can fly the flight).

Then as you mention, the inefficient cycling of the aircraft for both crewing and maintenance, as lets face it, if they were only based in YYT, one would only need one A319 for a daily flight.

It made me glad all I have to do is fly them!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
LHR isnt a good place to connect for AC pax going beyond LHR to the continent.

Why is this? LHR is the worlds #1 international airport, there are not many major cities in Europe you cant reach from LHR.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
Yields stink. There is no business traffic

Is there growing oil & gas related traffic?



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
25 bobloblaw : While AC has a internline agreement with BA, they dont codeshare. Thus fares from YHZ-LHR-MUC with a AC/BA interline connection will be expensive. LH
26 longhauler : Unfortunately, there is a lot more to consider than just one route from just one region. And I am constantly reminded of this whenever I read any air
27 yyz717 : Yes. Some in YYT, but it's from a small base. Pales in comparison to the oil & gas traffic to YYC/YEG.
28 slcdeltarumd11 : I think EWR is a great option 614 miles and your One stop same airline to pretty much all the major markets in europe. There is access to LHR which i
29 yyz717 : Yes. They. Can. AC answers to its shareholders, not the street. More in, than out. Westjet is growing. But i see your point. More the opposite actual
30 connector4you : Wasn't Westjet concerned with finding routes and destinations for their 737's large order? YYT would be the ideal hub to spread them all out on small-
31 longhauler : But, ultimately when the street affects shareholders, they have to answer to both. Oh I know, but it is what makes Newfoundland a very unique market.
32 brilondon : They are not going fly at a loss, I am sure that they make money, and if they don't they should just discontinue the run. AC is not in business to lo
33 Kaiarahi : Huh? How about 75% of the routes making a modest profit and 25% making a significant loss, etc., etc - the permutations are endless. 1+1 ≠ 11. Did
34 longhauler : AC, had over a $400M operating profit last quarter, I am sure the shareholders were happy. But I am going to say this again. If you consider the cost
35 Viscount724 : You are overlooking Icelandair's KEF-YHZ seasonal service. Both KL's and CP's YHZ-AMS service was very unprofitable. I remember flying on a CP 747-20
36 YVRLTN : Where did you get that from? Im talking about international pax and NRT is #15 at 2.46 million monthly pax. LHR is #1 at 5.84 million monthly pax as
37 Post contains images ScottB : I'd argue that Atlantic Canada is actually lucky to have and be able to sustain the YYT-LHR and YHZ-LHR flights that currently exist. Northern New En
38 matt : As someone who lives in Atlantic Canada (Moncton, NB), I, too, feel that we are lucky to have YHZ-LHR. Although I hardly ever transit through YHZ on
39 thenoflyzone : Not true, DE has summer seasonal YHZ-FRA service with B763. Also, as Viscount 724 mentioned, FI has KEF-YHZ. It might not be year round YQB-CDG, but
40 NorthStarDC4M : I have it in the 2009 winter OAG at least, don't have 2010 or 2011 to check. Shows as A310. But to the original point... The Maritimes have a populat
41 rampbro : I think everybody is missing a key point here, which is that St. John's is probably the only city in North America that can have a profitable A319 fli
42 ghYHZ : And that AC YHZ-LHR service has been around forever…….Originally started with Trans-Canada Airlines Super Constellations then DC-8s in the early
43 pnwtraveler : I also think with both the cross border AC-UA agreement being allowed again and with the Cross Atlantic tie in, more options for European destinations
44 Post contains images connector4you : Did I suggest in my post, that the use of an A319 or similar size aircraft on Transatlantic crossing is recommended ? If I did ...I apologize
45 Post contains images voodoo : ------------------ Yes. St.Johns is a little oil emirate at the moment. Lots of economic activity at every level.
46 thenoflyzone : True dat ! Because of the mining boom in YWK, the airport there is bursting at the seems. No radar, way too many movements, not enough ramp space, no
47 Kaiarahi : It seemed like it.
48 yyz717 : AC loses $ over all, so that means that many (most?) routes also lose $. I would suspect that given the additional costs assoc. with the YYT-LHR rout
49 Post contains images connector4you : Kaiarahi, it seems that you are really enjoying that cut and paste feature. Technically Its called putting words on somebody's mouth. For your record
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