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Cathay Pacific Crews Threaten Holiday Strike  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7486 times:

Union representing 6,000 Cathay Pacific flight attendant is threatening industrial action just weeks before the holiday season.

According to the union, the companies 2013 pay offer of 2% increases to its members was "totally unacceptable" inlight of high living cost and inflation.

Union will decide on its next course of action at its meeting next week.

Story:
Cathay Pacific crews threaten holiday strike
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...ific_business/view/1241034/1/.html

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From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7430 times:

To balance this out, the company is giving them and ground staff an months pay in dec (13/12=8.6%) plus 2% to their monthly salary next year. Pilots received no pay increase, just the bonus.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7423 times:

has cathay ever gone on strike before?

User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7376 times:

Yeah, let's not forget about the 13th month pay.

User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

Important to balance this out, correct. I think its very important to note that the staff should be satisfied with the package(and i think most of them are actually, if not STIRRED by never happy unions...) many other airlines are laying off staff and in this state of the world economy one should be happy to get a package of any sorts... best forget unions, as i said many times, they might have their reason for being, but most of the time they do more harm then good.

CX crew should do what they can do best - provide a great service to the airline's customers and dont jeopardize this image by following some union's calls...


User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 4):
CX crew should do what they can do best - provide a great service to the airline's customers and dont jeopardize this image by following some union's calls...

Easy to say. People who don't live in HK probably don't realize the inflation which is occuring here, mostly due to the jump of the real estate market price (+90% since 2009).
Pressure on HK people is just overwelming currently, because of speculation and world crisis which drive more cash transfer and investments in the "safe" HK.

So, yes, FA's should keep doing their jobs and try not to ruin the holiday plans of thousands of people. But one should also keep in mind the roots of this situation


User currently offlinewowpeter From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2006, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
To balance this out, the company is giving them and ground staff an months pay in dec (13/12=8.6%) plus 2% to their monthly salary next year. Pilots received no pay increase, just the bonus.

But should the 13th month really be consider pay raise though? It is sort of expected unless the company is really losing tons of money... And the 13th month is written in the flight attendant and pilot contract as subject to company performance... and it is usually always pay, so that 8.6% shouldn't really be factor as something new, it is just the norm / as something expected...

As for the 2% salary, it is better than nothing for sure, but I do see the flight attendant points that some of the flight attendant who operating predominately long haul have been seeing their out-port allowance reduce significantly due to reduce time at out-port. This have also been reported in some local newspaper... For those flight attendant, they are actually receiving a pay cut even after the 2% increase, they claim even after the 2% base salary increase, after their reduce allowance, they are at least 5% to 10% worse off than last year... so I guess I can sort of see their point of why they are complaining...

Just my two cents...


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 6):
This have also been reported in some local newspaper...

I have replied in more detail via PM, I do not think the entire picture is being presented in the paper. As far as I am aware 13th month is not part of our contracts, CX have a discretionary bonus, it is to my understanding expected at KA. The two companies have different conditions.

Allowances are there to compensate employees for meals down route, and are calculated and provided (with some minor exceptions) in the local currency in cash. The calculation is based upon the cost of meals in the crew hotel for the time the company has put them up in the hotel (e.g. for 24 hrs, they would have a breakfast, lunch, and dinner allowance, sometimes a double up, e.g. 2xbreakfast, lunch, and dinner if the 24 hours extends into 2 breakfast periods). I have difficulty with the concept that myself or other crew should be compensated for time we are not in hotels (except for delays), nor do I think they should be compensated for currency rate fluctuations to bring unused allowances back to HKG.

The main reason for reduction in time down route is the increase in frequencies on routes, for example Australia used to be anything up to a week down route after a 8-9 hour flight (back in the 747 classic days), today it is usually 24-48 hours.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6336 times:

A 13th month - in the contract or as a "bonus" hardly should be considered a raise.

A raise would be something that adjust the base pay for employees.

Even the HK government says inflation through October was 3.8%, so the proposed 2% does not even keep up with inflation. Looking at housing cost, the government says that is up 5.9% this year.

At the end of the day, while yes times are though for CX, it seems a little disingenuous for them to make their 2% offer out as equitable.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6283 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
At the end of the day, while yes times are though for CX, it seems a little disingenuous for them to make their 2% offer out as equitable.

The transport sector in HKG saw a average decrease in wages by 1-2% this year. If people feel they are under valued, they would be free to try to obtain alternative employment, when I suggest this to other pilots I fly with, they have a change in heart. As far as I am aware, CX has the highest wages for any of the airlines based out of HKG, and that may include mainland China as well, the airline has to remain competitive, otherwise no one has a job. That was the failure for a lot of airlines in the US.

Housing is high at the moment, however historically it also see very large swings. A new stamp duty recently introduced that only applies to non-permanent residents should take some of the speculation out of the market.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 7):
I have replied in more detail via PM, I do not think the entire picture is being presented in the paper.

Just like a.net, huh?

Hope it all works out for them. No one needs a job action if they are hurting financially, regardless of Christmas or anything else.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5860 times:

The strike has now been voted and approved by FA's:

Quote:
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (293) cabin crew authorized union leaders to initiate industrial action, stepping up a pay dispute ahead of the year-end travel rush.
Flight attendants could work-to-rule or refuse to do some tasks such as serving food to passengers in the run-up to Christmas, Dora Lai, chairwoman of the cabin-crew union, told reporters in Hong Kong today, after members voted in favor of action. Workers may go on strike over the New Year or the February Lunar New Year holiday if Cathay fails to respond to requests for more pay talks, she said.
“If they run Cathay Pacific as a low-cost airline, then we will have to conduct a low-cost airline service,” Lai said after a meeting of more than 1,600 union members or their representatives. “We have no choice.” The union represents more than 5,800 of Cathay’s 9,000 flight attendants.

More on that story here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-talks-in-apple-advertisement.html


User currently offlineSenliture From Australia, joined May 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5836 times:

I still have trouble understanding why people whinge about their pay rise does not catch up with inflation. In fact since when salary can catch up with inflation? It does not happen in economy uptrend, and certainly won't happen in downturn. If you did not perform well, and if your colleagues have let you down, that's not the overall public to suffer.

And, you join the job and know the flying pattern can be off your usual 9 to 5 scale. Yet you choose to join the long recruitment queue at Cathay city every time they have a recruitment. So why whinge about it?

There are airlines recruiting outside, but why not joining them? Because they already pay below what Cathay is paying today. So, why the fuss?


User currently offlinemusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

Quoting AF185 (Reply 5):
Easy to say. People who don't live in HK probably don't realize the inflation which is occuring here, mostly due to the jump of the real estate market price (+90% since 2009).
Pressure on HK people is just overwelming currently, because of speculation and world crisis which drive more cash transfer and investments in the "safe" HK.

So, yes, FA's should keep doing their jobs and try not to ruin the holiday plans of thousands of people. But one should also keep in mind the roots of this situation

As a HK-er, I keep in close contacts with my friends and relatives there and I agree with the fact that properties are mental at the moment.

However, Zeke did have a good point there, the pilots are very well paid for that region (i dont know about cabin crews) but the company needs to be competitive. I hope they can sort something out among themselves, but CX should treat their poor FAs decently as well. Lets hope they strike the right balance.



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5451 times:

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 4):
many other airlines are laying off staff and in this state of the world economy one should be happy to get a package of any sorts... best forget unions, as i said many times, they might have their reason for being, but most of the time they do more harm then good.

You can't really compare airlines with a sweeping statement when some airlines are doing well and others are on the verge of bankrupcy. You can only really compare like with like. Even when times are good there are airlines going bankrupt somewhere in the world. Your arguement would be loved by airline managers even if they are making record profits...somewhere out there there will be an airline laying off staff.

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 6):
But should the 13th month really be consider pay raise though? It is sort of expected unless the company is really losing tons of money... And the 13th month is written in the flight attendant and pilot contract as subject to company performance... and it is usually always pay, so that 8.6% shouldn't really be factor as something new, it is just the norm / as something expected...

Agreed. Over the years 13th month pay is becomming less consistant and although it is not written in black and white it is expected, just like the company expects staff not just to work to the black and white but go well above and beyond yet the company often does not go above and beyond. When staff vote to work to the letters of their contracts it's considered as industrial action yet when the company refers to contractual obligations only, it is deemed as being acceptable? Need I say more?

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 6):
For those flight attendant, they are actually receiving a pay cut even after the 2% increase, they claim even after the 2% base salary increase, after their reduce allowance, they are at least 5% to 10% worse off than last year.

Exactly. This is part of the story which is being left out of the headlines. It makes it out to sound like all the staff are simply unhappy because they are getting more money but not enough. There's so much more to the story than what the media report.

Quoting zeke (Reply 7):
Allowances are there to compensate employees for meals down route, and are calculated and provided (with some minor exceptions) in the local currency in cash. The calculation is based upon the cost of meals in the crew hotel for the time the company has put them up in the hotel (e.g. for 24 hrs, they would have a breakfast, lunch, and dinner allowance, sometimes a double up, e.g. 2xbreakfast, lunch, and dinner if the 24 hours extends into 2 breakfast periods).

You know as well as I do and as well as management do that for the average CX flight attendant, outport allowances are not for them to just spend willy-nily for meals but form a large portion of their salary. It is a reason that the airline gets away with paying new joining salaries of only around US$2 per hour more than the hourly legal minimum wage that say a cleaner or security guard gets in Hong Kong. Flight attendants treat allowances as a large portion of their income and stay in their rooms eating instant noodles they have brought with them from home in order to save their allowances to make up their income shortfall. By cutting allowances, the company saves potentially more than the 2% pay rise they are offering and the crew affected would get an overall pay cut.

Quoting zeke (Reply 9):
The transport sector in HKG saw a average decrease in wages by 1-2% this year. If people feel they are under valued, they would be free to try to obtain alternative employment,

What transport sector in Hong Kong are you comparing us to? Bus drivers? Taxi drivers? Are they even relevant?

Quoting Senliture (Reply 12):
I still have trouble understanding why people whinge about their pay rise does not catch up with inflation. In fact since when salary can catch up with inflation? It does not happen in economy uptrend, and certainly won't happen in downturn.

So let me get this straight. Salaries against inflation are decreasing so everyone effectively has a pay cut and a decreased living standard because of their inability to keep up with inflation and you have difficulty understanding why people are unhappy? So.....people should be happy that cost of living is increasing faster than their ability to keep up with?

I see that you are still a student so perhaps you have not felt any of this first hand yet, but I suppose that instead of working and getting a bigger flat as your career progresses, perhaps buying a car, perhaps getting married and having children that you think it is normal for salaries to continually decrease so I guess if you can't afford those things when you are a junior staff of a large company then you should expect never to be able to afford to get those things because to want more would simply be whinging and you can't understand why people would do that right?


User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

CX Flyboy, i normally would agree with most things you say, but not this time, forgive me  

I know how inflation and salary developments work and how they influence each other, and i understand also the frustration. But what makes me angry is that unions stir things up and at the end of the day what will happens usually (a little exeggerated, i know):
-the company is not doing well, despite being managed properly, but due to external influences (fuel, economy etc),
-higher salaries are asked for by the unions due to higher inflation and sometimes "just because - me too",
-the employer will only pay part of what is demanded,
-Unions call for strikes (always for completely un-selfish reasons????),
-employees getting stirred, feel like having a voice now (which is good) and vote for industrial action (strikes),
-planes stay on the grounds, are delayed, services are disrupted, customers are not getting from A to B, the company has to find (costly) alternatives for the customers if it cares for them, customers are getting angry more,
-customers move to competitors, travel less, the company gets a image of low reliability or less excellent service,
-company does worse economically and ...

Is that what we should aim for?

I know this is just one side of the story. But i as a paying customer would have no understanding at all if i would want to go home for X-mas or New Year to visit my family once a year at the other end of the world and have to be delayed or can't travel at all because some person at the unions headoffice thinks its time to stir up things (and maybe goes home to her family afterwards by flying with a budget airline which pays much worse salary package to the employees, according to her). Is that ideal???

I hope they come to some sence and they find a solution. And i am not blaming the CX Staff itself here at all, really.


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

Quoting qf340500 (Reply 15):
Is that what we should aim for?

Now, I;ve not actually said if I support the crew or not here. In fact I do not know the issue well enough to say whether in this particular case they are in the right or wrong. Everything I posted previously was just general retorts to quotes and inflation vs salary etc in general.

Unfortunately, only two things are only really ever going to result in an improvement in terms and conditions. Either the company has difficulty in hiring new employees (or is losing employees) and has to improve conditions in order to hire more staff, or existing staff are somewhat forceful in their demand for better conditions. In this case, it appears to be the latter. So now that the union has decided to be forceful, what bargaining chip do they have in order to get what they want? Well in this case it is the passenger. It is unfortunate for the passenger but at the end of the day this is the only bargaining chip. A threat to NOT disrupt operations is the same as just asking for what they want with the word 'please' a big smile on their faces. It isn't going to get them anywhere.

"Give us what we want or we'll smother you with comfy pillows."
"Get.....the comfy chair!!"
"No!! Not the comfy chair!!"


User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
You know as well as I do and as well as management do that for the average CX flight attendant, outport allowances are not for them to just spend willy-nily for meals but form a large portion of their salary. It is a reason that the airline gets away with paying new joining salaries of only around US$2 per hour more than the hourly legal minimum wage that say a cleaner or security guard gets in Hong Kong. Flight attendants treat allowances as a large portion of their income and stay in their rooms eating instant noodles they have brought with them from home in order to save their allowances to make up their income shortfall. By cutting allowances, the company saves potentially more than the 2% pay rise they are offering and the crew affected would get an overall pay cut.

"In the good old days" of the US airline industry*, flight crews were given larger-than-needed-to-cover-layover-incidental "per diem" expenses because it was beneficial for both the company and the crew member to do so. Expense money was not subject to income tax, giving a bigger take-home for the crew member than if the same $ increase were made to (taxable) flight pay. Additionally, as a benefit to both the company and the crew member, per diem pay was not subject to Social Security (FICA) deductions, which cost the company and employee equally. So, when compensation negotiations were in progress, both sides tended to favor increased per diem as a part of increased compensation.

Is there any similar angle for CX crew with HK/Chinese taxation?

* I put the context of the good old days, because these days per diem expense money is now taxable, i.e. crew members must account for the amount actually used, and the excess is counted as taxable income. That, and the fact that contract negotiations are now so contentious and adversarial that management might be just as likely to spite the workforce even at the expense of additional expense. IMHO, of course.  

[Edited 2012-12-11 02:43:00]

User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 17):
Is there any similar angle for CX crew with HK/Chinese taxation?

Thats exactly how it is here. 'Per Diems' as you call it in America are not taxed here so you still have the situation where it works for everyone.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):

You know as well as I do and as well as management do that for the average CX flight attendant, outport allowances are not for them to just spend willy-nily for meals but form a large portion of their salary.

That is not the intent, that is why pilots receive the same meal allowances as cabin crew (except for a few ports where cabin crew get more). Many cabin crew do go out and enjoy themselves down route, and then there are the other extreme as you described. Some pilots are exactly the same, all they want to do down route is sleep and read a book.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
It is a reason that the airline gets away with paying new joining salaries of only around US$2 per hour more than the hourly legal minimum wage that say a cleaner or security guard gets in Hong Kong.

It is a market economy, with a unemployment rate of around 3% something must be right for new joiners to still come along (how many thousand did we have turn up for the last set of interviews ?). Many give up, leave and end up coming back to other airlines in HKG for less money. Have a look at the crew bags on those purple uniforms, you will see a lot of CX luggage.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
Flight attendants treat allowances as a large portion of their income and stay in their rooms eating instant noodles they have brought with them from home in order to save their allowances to make up their income shortfall.

Some do, you would also know a lot of them are married, with a family, and love coming to work as their break away from their partner and children.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
By cutting allowances, the company saves potentially more than the 2% pay rise they are offering and the crew affected would get an overall pay cut.

They have not "cut" the allowance, the formula is based upon the hotel they stay at, and for what meals etc. It is not a per diem, the allowance for 24 hrs in BKK is paid in THB (say 2000), associated with the cost of meals at that hotel, it is different to the allowance for 24 hrs in LAX which is paid in USD which is associated with the cost of meals at that hotel. The BKK allowance is about half of the LAX allowance, and yet you get cabin crew swapping into it.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
What transport sector in Hong Kong are you comparing us to? Bus drivers? Taxi drivers? Are they even relevant?

It is not my "sector", it is GovHK. It covers everyone in that sector, including all the corporate jobs, and other airlines.

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 17):
Is there any similar angle for CX crew with HK/Chinese taxation?

HKG has the first $100,000 or so tax free, most cabin crew would pay less than 5% tax anyway.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5027 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 19):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):

You know as well as I do and as well as management do that for the average CX flight attendant, outport allowances are not for them to just spend willy-nily for meals but form a large portion of their salary.

That is not the intent, that is why pilots receive the same meal allowances as cabin crew (except for a few ports where cabin crew get more). Many cabin crew do go out and enjoy themselves down route, and then there are the other extreme as you described. Some pilots are exactly the same, all they want to do down route is sleep and read a book.

Intent or not, this is what is has become. I would say that for 99% of pilots, choosing to relax and "read a book" is through choice whereas ask one of the junior crew who save most of their allowances and they will tell you it is through neccesity.

Quoting zeke (Reply 19):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
Flight attendants treat allowances as a large portion of their income and stay in their rooms eating instant noodles they have brought with them from home in order to save their allowances to make up their income shortfall.

Some do, you would also know a lot of them are married, with a family, and love coming to work as their break away from their partner and children.

I think we need to make a bit of a distinction here for those who do not understand the CX cabin crew contracts. The more senior crew are on older contracts which are better paying than the newer contracts. They are also in more senior positions meaning their salaries are much much higher than the new joiners salaries.

All crew joining the last few years have been on hourly contracts and starting salary is pretty low. It can take 10+ years before a promotion above the first rank and hence most of these new joining crew do not intend to remain as cabin crew for a career. For them it is a short term job, a chance to see the world before they go and get a real career. Obviously this does not apply to everyone but to the majority.

Zeke those crew you mention with children etc tend to be the older ones, many on different contracts. Now it won't be long before our cabin crew numbers hit 10,000 and because there are far more crew in the initial rank than the Inflight Services Manager rank, most of the crew are the junior position and most of that rank are hourly crew. They stand to potentially lose the most from adjusting the schedules and losing allowances.

Quoting zeke (Reply 19):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):
By cutting allowances, the company saves potentially more than the 2% pay rise they are offering and the crew affected would get an overall pay cut.

They have not "cut" the allowance, the formula is based upon the hotel they stay at, and for what meals etc. It is not a per diem, the allowance for 24 hrs in BKK is paid in THB (say 2000), associated with the cost of meals at that hotel, it is different to the allowance for 24 hrs in LAX which is paid in USD which is associated with the cost of meals at that hotel. The BKK allowance is about half of the LAX allowance, and yet you get cabin crew swapping into it.

I know they have not cut allowances. The crew claim that CX are proposing to roster the flights in a different way and the end result is that the crew will be pocketing much less allowances per month than they have been. Now I see the company has said something about this concern but obviously the union wants more than just a non-contractual paragraph written as a news snippet to staff.


User currently offlinesenliture From Australia, joined May 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4997 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 14):

So let me get this straight. Salaries against inflation are decreasing so everyone effectively has a pay cut and a decreased living standard because of their inability to keep up with inflation and you have difficulty understanding why people are unhappy? So.....people should be happy that cost of living is increasing faster than their ability to keep up with?

I see that you are still a student so perhaps you have not felt any of this first hand yet, but I suppose that instead of working and getting a bigger flat as your career progresses, perhaps buying a car, perhaps getting married and having children that you think it is normal for salaries to continually decrease so I guess if you can't afford those things when you are a junior staff of a large company then you should expect never to be able to afford to get those things because to want more would simply be whinging and you can't understand why people would do that right?

Hi CX Flyboy,

Thanks for reminding me to update my profile, have been here for some 12 years but never notice my profile remained the same since I joined. I have certainly ventured into the real world for some years, may not be as many as others, in fact I am financially independent for almost 10 years now, and I think I have a good feeling on how the economy works.

I have worked in a few roles, and faced the eternal question of pay rise. Like I said earlier, I do not see why pay rise must associate with inflation. If you and your team perform well, you will get more. If you and your team is not as good, you get less. That's how the world works. Inflation from my point of view, is to differentiate betters from others. Of course one would argue that it's a flat increment for all, and I still not getting more. My take is, that's what promotion is for. You outperform the rest, you can promoted and you get a bigger pay cheque. So, for a few years you may have less to spend, but once you are at a stage that you are better than the others, you get promoted and get more. Free economy anyone?

Now, adding the not as good financial results from Cathay, does 2% increment sounds all bad again? You can always ask for more, and that's what I do at work as well, but you still need to face the reality. Reality is, Cathay is not earning money last year, so why 2% is not something to view positively?

Lastly, throwing the public impact into the equation, now you see why I am not supportive of this act at all.

I see Qantas was a great airline before, but the strikes, the neverending AJ debacle has certainly made Qantas not appealing anymore. Will Cathay be next because of this? In the last few strikes Cathay was lucky to have network expansion opportunities, sailed through a few industry-wide crisis, but pressure is on the strategists who of course are sitting in the air-conditioned offices. Do they get per diem and overtime? I doubt.

Regards,

Senliture


User currently offlinemarchie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

Cathay Pacific has just welcomed the decision not to strike over Christmas & New Year.

The following is taken from Cathay Pacific's Media Centre.

Link:

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_...b24598b310VgnVCM62000007d21c39____

Article:

Cathay Pacific Airways today welcomed the announcement by the Flight Attendants Union (FAU) not to stage a strike during the peak travel period over Christmas and New Year.

Chief Executive John Slosar said, "This is good news for our passengers, for all Cathay Pacific staff and for the Hong Kong travelling public."

He added, "Working together as a team to make the airline successful is in everybody's interest, and I think we should never miss a chance to deliver the very best service to our passengers."

Mr. Slosar continued, "Aviation has been a difficult business in 2012, and we have tried very hard to explain the challenges we have faced to our staff. In total over the past 3 years even after the 2% awarded this year, most of our staff have received pay increases totalling almost 12%, plus an additional 13th month bonus in each of those 3 years, and I think this is a pretty good result given the performance of our business. The Cathay team do a fantastic job so we always try to look after them as best we can. The pay increases we have awarded in recent years show that, when times are good, we share the benefits with the Cathay team."

Cathay Pacific wrote to the FAU at the end of last week inviting them to continue discussions on lifestyle and operational matters, but as yet has not received any response.

General Manager Cabin Crew Liza Ng said, "We are still waiting to hear from them and hope we will soon."


User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Quoting senliture (Reply 21):
I have worked in a few roles, and faced the eternal question of pay rise. Like I said earlier, I do not see why pay rise must associate with inflation. If you and your team perform well, you will get more. If you and your team is not as good, you get less. That's how the world works. Inflation from my point of view, is to differentiate betters from others. Of course one would argue that it's a flat increment for all, and I still not getting more. My take is, that's what promotion is for. You outperform the rest, you can promoted and you get a bigger pay cheque. So, for a few years you may have less to spend, but once you are at a stage that you are better than the others, you get promoted and get more. Free economy anyone?

Wow, it must be nice to part of the 1%. You and Mitt Romney (or whoever your equivalent Aussie politician is) should hang out.

You might not understand this, but just because you work hard doesn't mean you'll get a raise or promoted. In an optimum world, it would, but you can get paid less and work far harder but nobody above you cares.

I don't know why having milk costs a greater percentage of my income is somehow a reflection of my work performance.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

No Smiles? No booze? Oh no!

Cathay Pacific Crew Threatens No-Smile, No-Booze Strike: http://www.businessinsider.com/catha...booze-strike-2012-12#ixzz2EkzZWGb9

Says union general secretary Tsang Kwok-fung: "We will be selective in providing our services...This could include not smiling at passengers, not providing certain types of beverages — such as alcohol — or stop serving meals... In a nutshell it means passengers will still be able to reach their destinations except they are paying a five-star price to get a three-star service."


25 OzGlobal : I'm flying CX to Oz from CDG via HKG on 18th in J for Christmas. This is the sort of union action that I hate: punish the public, not the company and
26 Post contains links Catiii : I'm not so sure it does anything to help engender support for their efforts either from the passengers. I won't post the link to the photos (which ar
27 CX Flyboy : As someone else pointed out, that is unrealistic idealism. As I mentionned before, our crew remain in that junior positon for a great number of years
28 qf340500 : to Oz Global: I am 100% on your side and i am fed up with this BS from unions.... no matter how people try to justify their actions... I am PAYING FOR
29 qf340500 : how can one woman, the chairwoman of the cabin-crew union, influence negatively so many peoples (customers) travel plans and jeopardize employment for
30 cmf : What is wrong with trying to fix the place you're at first?
31 CX Flyboy : Who or what would you suggest fighting it out over? If there is a better alternative I am sure the unions would love to hear it. No-one enjoys messin
32 qf340500 : Not sure if "she" doesn't enjoy messing up people's plans, it sounds like at least she doesn't really care about paying customers (not only people's)
33 CX Flyboy : You do realise that a union is not one person right? A quote from leader or spokesperson should be representative of the feelings of all the union me
34 Post contains images qf340500 : ok, understood, thanks for the inside, guess its really hard to see from outside the company whats going on. But i am still not HAPPY about them messi
35 zeke : And I see a lot of the same crew with the latest handbags, latest phones, latest fashion etc etc. I am not buying into this hand to mouth existence f
36 CX Flyboy : So Zeke may I read between the lines to assume that in your opinion the crew are paid fairly well, have already got a large pay raise incuding the 2%
37 zeke : They are your words not mine. I made the observation that the very crew that seem you have portrayed as living on a hand to mouth existence also seem
38 CX Flyboy : I don't see a denial of my assumption though. Would you care to put your opinion in black and white? I'm curious to see your opinion on the matter. W
39 PHX787 : Buddy of mine received an email from CX about his upcoming trip from NRT-HKG....he said that should a strike occur, he is being offered a voucher to f
40 OzGlobal : Then they should never again allow themselves to take pride in their "service culture" or "client centric attitude" as it is a lie. There can be no '
41 OzGlobal : Then you're disagreeing with yourself, not me. I said, "I hate this sort of ACTION", and I really, really mean it. Never said I hated any 'human bein
42 cmf : Yes I did. My comment still stand. Why not try to fix the issues you have at the place you're at before moving on? The 13th month is just one part of
43 zeke : My opinion, which is backed up with the evidence of the number of new hires that turn up and apply each time CX advertises, is that CX seem to pay ab
44 CX Flyboy : My opinion is that many new joining crew do not see being a cabin crew as a career and I think that is a real shame. I think the service standards ar
45 zeke : I actually think it is when a greater percentage of local crew were hired, the expat crew really tried to make a go of it, and really tried fit in. I
46 cmf : 10% bonus per year, many places do that. Trying to do this about what I do is beside the point. Reality is that there is nothing wrong with employees
47 CX Flyboy : Yet you seem to have accepted your fate. I'm speechless. I admire your work ethic, however morale is such that you must realise that you are in the s
48 zeke : The cabin crew elected a new leadership a while back, and that leadership did negotiate and signed the pay deal at the conclusion of those negotiatio
49 CX Flyboy : I disagree actually. Some problems you can just throw money at, and if salaries were higher, and weighted towards more senior crew, then the junior c
50 Post contains images cmf : If there is a contract in place at this time then there are no grounds for these actions. Sorry, I can't imagine actions like this unless there are n
51 Post contains links LAXintl : The flight attendants union and company have settled their dispute. Main points are: - A commitment that all destinations will remain available to Hon
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