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Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue  
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14606 times:

While scanning the Chicago Trib this morning I noticed this; an irate man aboard a Jet Blue flight departing Orlando, one Robert Ramirez, punched and broke a window on the plane because the cabin crew seated him away from his mother. The plane had to return to the gate, where it was delayed app. one hour, while a crew replaced the window.

A federal grand jury in Orland has indicted Ramirez on a charge of "destruction of an aircraft".

Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit ?


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...lane-window-20121203,0,86305.story

Charley


Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14546 times:
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Unfotunately? He might not be sitting next to his Mommy for quite a while.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14457 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit ?

Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

From a civil aviation standpoint, I was surprised at first but considering the millions of passengers carried every year, I guess we should expect stupidity like this incident ever so often. Someone needs anger management



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14362 times:

There was similar situation on a WN flight I was on last week (involving a child sitting with his mother, but Dad was many rows back and the kid was bawling that he wanted his daddy). Maybe it was the kid's behavior, but the passenger next to the mother & kid offered to change seats with the father, solving the problem. Wonder why no one on this B6 flight apparently offered to do that?


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3827 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14312 times:

Incredible replies on this thread, and very typical for this forum in the last years. Anyone realize that this guy might have a mental disorder? Yeah, throw him in jail I guess. This man might need some serious help. I realize he committed a crime by destroying the aircraft but:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit?

seriously? To cool off? So the answer to all problems is to jail everybody so they can "cool off"?
I'm shocked.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14301 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

I tend to agree with you about the already over-crowded prisons; here's what I would do if I was in the Judge's seat:
First.......order him to reimburse Jet Blue for the cost of the window replacement, plus costs incurred by the return to gate (and the scheduling boondoggle it caused); then...... 5 years probation, during which he will be hand-cuffed any time he boards a commercial aircraft, plus, he is required to wear a "special T-shirt" with a prominent message: "This is what happens when you act stupid on an airliner"; (that ought to do it)

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14223 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 3):
There was similar situation on a WN flight I was on last week (involving a child sitting with his mother, but Dad was many rows back and the kid was bawling that he wanted his daddy). Maybe it was the kid's behavior, but the passenger next to the mother & kid offered to change seats with the father, solving the problem. Wonder why no one on this B6 flight apparently offered to do that?

Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5757 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 14160 times:

Why does the prospect of sitting apart for a couple of hours make people so crazy?

Just last week I watched a fortysomething woman become hysterical upon boarding a Frontier flight because she was seated a few rows behind her husband.

Some poor soul exchanged his aisle seat for a center seat so they could sit together. I hate it when people get their way by acting unreasonably.

[Edited 2012-12-06 08:19:05]

User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3094 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 14064 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 6):
Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .

The two situations aren't identical, but definitely analogous IMO. It doesn't hurt anyone (other pax who could potentially offer to change seats) to be kind.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13982 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Why does the prospect of sitting apart for a couple of hours make people so crazy?

Just last week I watched a fortysomething woman become hysterical upon boarding a Frontier flight because she was seated a few rows behind her husband.

Some poor soul exchanged his aisle seat for a center seat so they could sit together. I hate it when people get their way by acting unreasonably.

Do keep in mind that some people have a fear of flying. That said, they could have planned ahead a lot better to get seats near each other...unless it was on WN with's free-for-all seating.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13863 times:

Inexcusable behaviour IMO. Apart from the damage done by venting his frustration physically, it must have been very unpleasant for the person sitting next to him. A little less thought for what he wanted and a little more thought for the people around him was in order.

Forgetting the calls for him to spend years in prison, what sort of penalty might one expect him to receive from a court? A big fine? A prison sentence? One or both of those plus an order to reimburse the airline for its costs?

I like the use of English in the charge against him - "destruction of an aircraft". Makes it sound like the aircraft was a total loss because of his actions.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21793 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13865 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
The plane had to return to the gate, where it was delayed app. one hour, while a crew replaced the window.

Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1610 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13775 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3424 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13725 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 12):
Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.

yah, I can't imagine any human being strong enough to break the window used for pressurization.


User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13607 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):

The two situations aren't identical, but definitely analogous IMO. It doesn't hurt anyone (other pax who could potentially offer to change seats) to be kind.

Unless they paid a premium for an Even More Space seat. In any event a grown man should have the maturity level to be seated apart from his mother for the 1h45m flight to EWR. A young child doesn't know any better. The "kind" thing to do is for the passenger who acted out like an idiot to not act like an idiot, not act out and break the window, and not delay the flight for everyone else. It's not the responsibility of the rest of the passengers to accommodate him.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6183 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13429 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

From a civil aviation standpoint, I was surprised at first but considering the millions of passengers carried every year, I guess we should expect stupidity like this incident ever so often. Someone needs anger management

100% agreed. He goes to jail and now we are paying for it with taxes. This stuff is going to happen with so may people flying. A nice FAT FINE and a ban from B6 sound good to me.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

It seems Jet Blue has the "nut job" market cornered lately.

I've noticed that when passengers have their seat it kind of becomes "MY seat" and they get kind of possessive about it. Perhaps the F/A didn't bother to find out if someone would change seats with him (I know, not their job). Maybe the person(s) sitting next to Mama were a couple that didn't want to be moved either. The possibilities of this situation are endless.

I wonder if he hurt his hand breaking the inner window?


User currently offlineluvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13217 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
It seems Jet Blue has the "nut job" market cornered lately.

its all those NYC-FL flights, lol!


User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13146 times:
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Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):

Any one think that the other people might have been flying with someone else? Maybe children or loved ones. It was a flight from Orlando.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13056 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 6):
Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .



I think that this was more than inconveniencing the man. He clearly had a mental problem. The mother was needed to keep him in check, it appears. We are seeing more and more mental illness situations and don't recognize them for what they are.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 19):
He clearly had a mental problem.

Is there a source for that? If not, there's not a lot of point speculating one way or the other, as there are equally as many violent jerks as there are people who might lapse into violence for medically-attributable reasons. If that was indeed the case, presumably the court will consider any connected mitigation.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2600 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12744 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

Like a previous poster said he most likely only broke the inner scratch pane. Even if he did break the outer pane they are pretty quick to change. Not sure about the Bus but on Boeings they are just held in by a hand full of clips that just screw in place. For some you don't even have to remove the entire sidewall panel.


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12712 times:
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Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
A federal grand jury in Orland has indicted Ramirez on a charge of "destruction of an aircraft".

Being picky here, but that seems like a strange charge. As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to destroy an aircraft. It's illegal to destroy an aircraft that's not yours. So perhaps the charge is criminal mischief or malicious destruction of property or something.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6814 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12678 times:

About the mother it could be that she's old and needs him and not the opposite. Still they should have asked for a pair of seats from the start. And if it's that big a deal don't even enter the aircraft, wait for the other passengers to seat then see with the crew what is possible.

I changed seats on my three last legs, although each time it was because I had a crappy window seat (once it had no actual window since the engine compressor was next to it !) and there were always several options so no big deal in my case.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12652 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

  

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 22):
...As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to destroy an aircraft. It's illegal to destroy an aircraft that's not yours. So perhaps the charge is criminal mischief or malicious destruction of property or something.

On the contrary, it is very illegal to willfully damage or destroy aircraft under federal law. Federal law is very sensitive about crimes relating to aviation.

http://aviation.uslegal.com/offenses...s/federal-crimes-and-prosecutions/



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
25 TSS : But it hurts society as a whole when bad behavior gets rewarded.
26 727LOVER : Why should I? I do everything to get the seat that I want, From booking to check-in. Now I'm supposed to give up my window seat because someone else
27 EagleBoy : Better point that out to the USAF/USN/USMC
28 JAAlbert : So the plane goes back to the gate and it takes just one hour to replace the window? I assume this is one of those inner window panes - doesn't the en
29 Post contains images SXDFC : Is it appropriate to ask if they will re-name this particular A/C "Blue My Stack"? [Edited 2012-12-06 14:28:06]
30 Mir : Good point, that's probably what it was. -Mir
31 capitol8s : the flying public never ceases to amaze me.... unfortunate as it is for a family to be separated there is no excuse to act like you need a bed a Belle
32 GALLEYSTEW : I have NO sympathy. You GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You want seats together??? JetBLUE provides for that. Pay up if it is that important to you. I have flow
33 AussieItaliano : Not knowing all the facts of what exactly happened, I can't really say a whole lot ... except ... 1) People have a right to travel safely without fear
34 Lufthansa : I'd also like to touch on the mental illness part. Let's not forget, prior to flying its quite common with people who have anxiety disorders to be in
35 Post contains images YVRFlyer : Absolutely, an airline is not a charitable endeavour, despite what all the crybabies and their frivolous lawsuits would have us believe. Plenty of cr
36 flyBTV : Understood, but if flying makes you that uncomfortable, there are plenty of other options. One can drive, take the bus, and there are several trains
37 zippyjet : I like this idea, quite original. Talk about 15 minutes of fame! Jail? Not sure. Some have brought up emotional/mental issues. Have him receive a psy
38 varigb707 : Such persons, should be banned from the airline industry, entirely. IMHO.
39 SmittyOne : He should have just grabbed a couple of beers and...
40 pvjin : Depends from why he did that, if he just has some kind of mental problem that he can't control himself it would be wise to treat it and when he's hea
41 soon7x7 : Airline policies of late leave much to be desired but to suppose the man has a mental disorder?...Kind of like the sport of football causing Belcher
42 brilondon : Unfortunately we really don't have much to go on, the article was rather lacking in any details about it.We have to question if there could have been
43 SmittyOne : If a person plans ahead and potentially pays more to secure what they want or need for a flight, they shouldn't automatically be expected to yield th
44 longhauler : Very well stated. Unfortunately, that is what flying has become ... an exercise in stress. As we don't know the whole story, he may well have done ju
45 jamake1 : Really? I'm cabin crew and frequently solicit passengers to see if they'd be willing to change seats in order to accommodate a family. I don't see it
46 richierich : My first thought was the glass on the divider between Row 1 and the FA, inside the cabin. I could easily see this being a one hour fix. I can't imagi
47 SmittyOne : I get that...but not sure that other passengers inherit some sort of moral obligation to make up for the airline's SNAFU if that is the case. Either
48 brilondon : Maybe he did plan ahead, make the arrangements and then found a person in his seat and was told to take another seat, the F/A should have been more a
49 longhauler : That is my guess, as due to proximity of the middle and outer windows, the inner panel can be no more than "cracked" from the inside. It can be dispa
50 Post contains images OB1504 : I see this every day when checking people in. On most flights, there are only middle seats left scattered throughout the cabin because most travelers
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