RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8474 times:
Saw this in A4A today. So how long until we see a major with service to Iraq? And who will it be? So far they have only opened up 2 airports, but as that relaxes, what should we expect?
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6293 posts, RR: 23 Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8336 times:
Good news for Iraq - another step towards normality and growth. Presumably there could be fairly good demand for service - are we likely to see more than perhaps one new route in the near future?
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8226 times:
I'm very curious how much demand these routes will generate. ATL-Iraq would be very interesting. Maybe DL could make it work with a weekly A332, assuming there is sufficient demand.
Also, how likely is it that the TSA will approve USA-Iraq commercial pax operations?
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8115 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 7): I'm very curious how much demand these routes will generate.
Presumably there is some government traffic between the two nations, so perhaps one of the legacies can pull the whole "gov employees must fly US flag carrier when available" card and get some traffic that way?
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 461 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7973 times:
What about security issues?
No US airline serves Saudi Arabia either (yet they serve smaller markets such as KWI, BAH or DOH), and I am sure that security has a lot to do with that.
raffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1646 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7934 times:
Really odd that US - Iraq flights will be permitted but not Beirut? Really odd.
Has this got anything to do with American companies winning tenders in the country?
SonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7855 times:
The U.S. spent hundreds of billions of dollars there in fighting a "war" as well in reconstruction of various parts of Iraq's infrastructure. It should surprise no one that the US will allow flights into Iraq as soon as possible.
Given the oil industry, we could see some flights from IAH to Mosul or Bagdad. I really don't see this happening for a while though.
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7797 times:
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 12): No US airline serves Saudi Arabia either
This could have something to do with it:
"All visas require a sponsor, can take several months to process, and must be obtained prior to arrival.... There have been reports by U.S. citizens that they were refused a Saudi visa because their passports reflected travel to Israel or indicated that they were born in Israel....... Women visitors and residents must be met by their sponsor upon arrival. Women who are traveling alone and are not met by sponsors have experienced delays before being allowed to enter the country or to continue on other flights. "
Saudi Arabia does things in such a way that it would be very difficult to maintain service relying on primarily US based travelers.
Nothing to do with that. KWI or DOH are not touristic hot-spots either for Americans and they have services to IAD with UA.
Actually if you check the largest increases in the very last years in traffic in international city pairs from the US, RUH and JED consistently are in the top places from some large US markets. There are a lot of economic and government US interests in the country (even if there is no official military presence such in BAH), the number of Saudi students in the US has multiplied in the last 2-3 years, Saudi is a large market by itself (almost 30m people) and relatively wealthy... SV flies to JFK and IAD from both JED and RUH (and from my experience, Saudis are expats likely avoid SV when flying to the US, and they rather do a stop-over in Europe) and they have increased frequencies lately.
I am sure that under normal circumstances we could see direct flights with UA to IAD (government traffic and connections in IAD, they serve smaller markets in the region - BAH, DOH, KWI -) to JED/RUH, and even DL from ATL (such as to DXB) or JFK (specially now SV is part of SkyTeam).
funkywabit From United States of America, joined May 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7637 times:
Just because the FAA opens up the route doesn't mean people can start flying there... The TSA has to approve, and since they would not approve Delta to fly to Nairobi (which has service from several non-us airlines) due to a credible threat to civil aviation, I cant imagine they would approve flights to Iraq.
xjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 52 Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7579 times:
Quoting funkywabit (Reply 18): Just because the FAA opens up the route doesn't mean people can start flying there... The TSA has to approve, and since they would not approve Delta to fly to Nairobi (which has service from several non-us airlines) due to a credible threat to civil aviation, I cant imagine they would approve flights to Iraq.
+1
And even if the TSA deems the security is up to TSA "standards", each airline's corporate security has to scout the airport, meet with officials, check the routes to and from hotel, the area around the hotel, credible and not-so-credible threats in the area, what kind of transportation they will use, etc. If there are problems or credible threats to the crews, they won't fly there regardless of what TSA/FAA allow.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7480 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 4): Makes me wonder if DL still holds the old PA rights to Baghdad??
Quoting tb727 (Reply 11):
Or from NW? Didn't NW have the rights to fly there once it opened up?
From what I understand, at a certain point a few years back, it was announced that Northwest got the rights to fly to Iraq, once things settled. Of course, everything NW went to DL. And DL probably holds the old PA rights, as well. So, if ANYONE goes there, it will be DL or nobody.
The Detroit area has the most Iraqi expatriates of any US city......AND it is a DL hub and gateway. DTW-Baghdad on DL is the logical choice all around.....
RDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1063 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7367 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 20): Of course, everything NW went to DL. And DL probably holds the old PA rights, as well. So, if ANYONE goes there, it will be DL or nobody.
What good are these "rights"? The US government certainly isn't going to stop multiple airlines from flying there, and we all know this is a different Iraqi government ENTIRELY than the one that issued those rights.
NWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7170 times:
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 20): The Detroit area has the most Iraqi expatriates of any US city......AND it is a DL hub and gateway. DTW-Baghdad on DL is the logical choice all around.....
Now that would be sweet! and help solidify DTW as the hub it still is and once was
And even if the TSA deems the security is up to TSA "standards", each airline's corporate security has to scout the airport, meet with officials, check the routes to and from hotel, the area around the hotel, credible and not-so-credible threats in the area, what kind of transportation they will use, etc. If there are problems or credible threats to the crews, they won't fly there regardless of what TSA/FAA
+1, and almost no one would bid a line with Iraq on it. Low man on the totem pole and people on reserve I feel for ya.......
corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2519 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7057 times:
The article didnt specifically mention this, but does this mean SFAR 77 is liftted?
25 tb727: Yeah I thought I remember it was planned to run a DC-10 from DTW-AMS-BGW then it was possibly going to be a non-stop 787 flight when they arrived but
26 FreshSide3: I don't remember UA being part of it, although it may have.......but yes, Kalitta was definitely mentioned.....
27 enilria: Judging from BEY which is FAA, but not TSA approved, I'm guessing it won't happen except for charters.
28 B4REAL: YES! It was announced in 2003, discussed here: Northwest Files Application To Fly To Iraq (by Neilalp May 8 2003 in Civil Aviation) I think DL or UA
29 FI642: NW was granted rights from DTW DL does have the PA dormant rights. Agreed, crew security. My friend P.E. was on 'the" BA flight into KWI, and was used
30 B4REAL: Agreed - I see it quite a long time away. Europe flights can do the route without keeping the crew there overnight I belive, a big benefit - keeping
31 XFSUgimpLB41X: Baghdad layovers are going to go even more junior than Lagos!
33 avek00: For those who bothered to read before pontificating, the lifting of restrictions only applies to two airports in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. In
34 tonytifao: Would an american airline be a target for terror attacks by anti-american regimes? Still every now and then you hear attacks against americans.
35 SCQ83: But things are different than in 2003 in a few ways. The Iraqi VFR traffic in DTW has now more options, because Middle Eastern carriers in 2003 were
36 FreshSide3: The big money is in Baghdad and Basra, anyway. I don't think rest of the other cities in Iraq have that big of a market.
37 raffik: Possibly but then you could say that about operations to Cairo, Jordan and Kuwait where there isn't a whole lot of support for America (American poli
38 BHMNONREV: Erbil sounds like the most logical destination right now from a demand standpoint, not sure about Sulaimaniyah. The US State Department has a good si
39 kngkyle: I wouldn't write off Erbil. It's turning into the Dubai of Iraq. Lots and lots of new development, foreign companies moving in, and infrastructure im
40 UA772IAD: This can be avoided by US carriers if they wished to serve Iraq as a tag-on. UA could do this from KWI or DXB and DL could do the same from DXB. Of c
41 blueflyer: I can't imagine a US carrier flying into Iraq anytime soon, even Kurd-controlled Northern Iraq. Far more likely that this is for code-share purposes.
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