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FAA Lifts Ban On US Airlines To Iraq  
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1599 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9984 times:

Saw this in A4A today. So how long until we see a major with service to Iraq? And who will it be? So far they have only opened up 2 airports, but as that relaxes, what should we expect?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-ban-on-commercial-flights-to-iraq

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 524 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9987 times:

Would be nice to see a UA tag-on from another Middle East destination.


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User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 911 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9912 times:

Would be nice to see an IAH-Iraq flight.


Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9913 times:

I'm shocked this came before Beirut!

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10347 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

Makes me wonder if DL still holds the old PA rights to Baghdad??


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9846 times:
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Good news for Iraq - another step towards normality and growth. Presumably there could be fairly good demand for service - are we likely to see more than perhaps one new route in the near future?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7197 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

I wonder though if anyone will actually fly there. Doesn't look like a viable airline right now.


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User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9736 times:

I'm very curious how much demand these routes will generate. ATL-Iraq would be very interesting. Maybe DL could make it work with a weekly A332, assuming there is sufficient demand.

Also, how likely is it that the TSA will approve USA-Iraq commercial pax operations?

[Edited 2012-12-06 12:40:26]

User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1599 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9625 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 7):
I'm very curious how much demand these routes will generate.

Presumably there is some government traffic between the two nations, so perhaps one of the legacies can pull the whole "gov employees must fly US flag carrier when available" card and get some traffic that way?


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

Quoting sulley (Reply 1):
Would be nice to see a UA tag-on from another Middle East destination.

  

Maybe UA from IAD? Would seem appropriate.



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User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9567 times:
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Quoting jporterfi (Reply 7):
Also, how likely is it that the TSA will approve USA-Iraq commercial pax operations?

If the politicians want to see air traffic to Iraq opened up then oretty likely, I would guess.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1576 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9520 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 4):
Makes me wonder if DL still holds the old PA rights to Baghdad??

Or from NW? Didn't NW have the rights to fly there once it opened up?



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User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9483 times:

What about security issues?

No US airline serves Saudi Arabia either (yet they serve smaller markets such as KWI, BAH or DOH), and I am sure that security has a lot to do with that.


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9444 times:

Really odd that US - Iraq flights will be permitted but not Beirut? Really odd.
Has this got anything to do with American companies winning tenders in the country?



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User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9365 times:
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The U.S. spent hundreds of billions of dollars there in fighting a "war" as well in reconstruction of various parts of Iraq's infrastructure. It should surprise no one that the US will allow flights into Iraq as soon as possible.

Given the oil industry, we could see some flights from IAH to Mosul or Bagdad. I really don't see this happening for a while though.


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1599 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9307 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 12):
No US airline serves Saudi Arabia either

This could have something to do with it:

"All visas require a sponsor, can take several months to process, and must be obtained prior to arrival.... There have been reports by U.S. citizens that they were refused a Saudi visa because their passports reflected travel to Israel or indicated that they were born in Israel....... Women visitors and residents must be met by their sponsor upon arrival. Women who are traveling alone and are not met by sponsors have experienced delays before being allowed to enter the country or to continue on other flights. "

Saudi Arabia does things in such a way that it would be very difficult to maintain service relying on primarily US based travelers.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...s/cis_1012.html#entry_requirements

[Edited 2012-12-06 13:24:16]

User currently offlineShuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9295 times:

If I was any US carrier I would be very careful about operating anywhere like there...

User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9205 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):

Nothing to do with that. KWI or DOH are not touristic hot-spots either for Americans and they have services to IAD with UA.

Actually if you check the largest increases in the very last years in traffic in international city pairs from the US, RUH and JED consistently are in the top places from some large US markets. There are a lot of economic and government US interests in the country (even if there is no official military presence such in BAH), the number of Saudi students in the US has multiplied in the last 2-3 years, Saudi is a large market by itself (almost 30m people) and relatively wealthy... SV flies to JFK and IAD from both JED and RUH (and from my experience, Saudis are expats likely avoid SV when flying to the US, and they rather do a stop-over in Europe) and they have increased frequencies lately.

I am sure that under normal circumstances we could see direct flights with UA to IAD (government traffic and connections in IAD, they serve smaller markets in the region - BAH, DOH, KWI -) to JED/RUH, and even DL from ATL (such as to DXB) or JFK (specially now SV is part of SkyTeam).


User currently offlinefunkywabit From United States of America, joined May 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9147 times:

Just because the FAA opens up the route doesn't mean people can start flying there... The TSA has to approve, and since they would not approve Delta to fly to Nairobi (which has service from several non-us airlines) due to a credible threat to civil aviation, I cant imagine they would approve flights to Iraq.

User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

Quoting funkywabit (Reply 18):
Just because the FAA opens up the route doesn't mean people can start flying there... The TSA has to approve, and since they would not approve Delta to fly to Nairobi (which has service from several non-us airlines) due to a credible threat to civil aviation, I cant imagine they would approve flights to Iraq.

+1

And even if the TSA deems the security is up to TSA "standards", each airline's corporate security has to scout the airport, meet with officials, check the routes to and from hotel, the area around the hotel, credible and not-so-credible threats in the area, what kind of transportation they will use, etc. If there are problems or credible threats to the crews, they won't fly there regardless of what TSA/FAA allow.



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8990 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 4):
Makes me wonder if DL still holds the old PA rights to Baghdad??
Quoting tb727 (Reply 11):

Or from NW? Didn't NW have the rights to fly there once it opened up?

From what I understand, at a certain point a few years back, it was announced that Northwest got the rights to fly to Iraq, once things settled. Of course, everything NW went to DL. And DL probably holds the old PA rights, as well. So, if ANYONE goes there, it will be DL or nobody.

The Detroit area has the most Iraqi expatriates of any US city......AND it is a DL hub and gateway. DTW-Baghdad on DL is the logical choice all around.....


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1599 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8877 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 20):
Of course, everything NW went to DL. And DL probably holds the old PA rights, as well. So, if ANYONE goes there, it will be DL or nobody.

What good are these "rights"? The US government certainly isn't going to stop multiple airlines from flying there, and we all know this is a different Iraqi government ENTIRELY than the one that issued those rights.


User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8680 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 20):
The Detroit area has the most Iraqi expatriates of any US city......AND it is a DL hub and gateway. DTW-Baghdad on DL is the logical choice all around.....

Now that would be sweet! and help solidify DTW as the hub it still is and once was


User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1378 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8680 times:

Quoting xjramper (Reply 19):
+1

And even if the TSA deems the security is up to TSA "standards", each airline's corporate security has to scout the airport, meet with officials, check the routes to and from hotel, the area around the hotel, credible and not-so-credible threats in the area, what kind of transportation they will use, etc. If there are problems or credible threats to the crews, they won't fly there regardless of what TSA/FAA






+1, and almost no one would bid a line with Iraq on it. Low man on the totem pole and people on reserve I feel for ya.......

[Edited 2012-12-06 16:32:31]

[Edited 2012-12-06 16:33:38]


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlinecorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8567 times:

The article didnt specifically mention this, but does this mean SFAR 77 is liftted?

25 tb727 : Yeah I thought I remember it was planned to run a DC-10 from DTW-AMS-BGW then it was possibly going to be a non-stop 787 flight when they arrived but
26 FreshSide3 : I don't remember UA being part of it, although it may have.......but yes, Kalitta was definitely mentioned.....
27 enilria : Judging from BEY which is FAA, but not TSA approved, I'm guessing it won't happen except for charters.
28 Post contains links B4REAL : YES! It was announced in 2003, discussed here: Northwest Files Application To Fly To Iraq (by Neilalp May 8 2003 in Civil Aviation) I think DL or UA
29 FI642 : NW was granted rights from DTW DL does have the PA dormant rights. Agreed, crew security. My friend P.E. was on 'the" BA flight into KWI, and was used
30 B4REAL : Agreed - I see it quite a long time away. Europe flights can do the route without keeping the crew there overnight I belive, a big benefit - keeping
31 XFSUgimpLB41X : Baghdad layovers are going to go even more junior than Lagos!
32 Deltal1011man : IIRC it was DTW-AMS-BGW....
33 avek00 : For those who bothered to read before pontificating, the lifting of restrictions only applies to two airports in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. In
34 tonytifao : Would an american airline be a target for terror attacks by anti-american regimes? Still every now and then you hear attacks against americans.
35 SCQ83 : But things are different than in 2003 in a few ways. The Iraqi VFR traffic in DTW has now more options, because Middle Eastern carriers in 2003 were
36 FreshSide3 : The big money is in Baghdad and Basra, anyway. I don't think rest of the other cities in Iraq have that big of a market.
37 raffik : Possibly but then you could say that about operations to Cairo, Jordan and Kuwait where there isn't a whole lot of support for America (American poli
38 BHMNONREV : Erbil sounds like the most logical destination right now from a demand standpoint, not sure about Sulaimaniyah. The US State Department has a good si
39 Post contains links kngkyle : I wouldn't write off Erbil. It's turning into the Dubai of Iraq. Lots and lots of new development, foreign companies moving in, and infrastructure im
40 UA772IAD : This can be avoided by US carriers if they wished to serve Iraq as a tag-on. UA could do this from KWI or DXB and DL could do the same from DXB. Of c
41 blueflyer : I can't imagine a US carrier flying into Iraq anytime soon, even Kurd-controlled Northern Iraq. Far more likely that this is for code-share purposes.
42 burnsie28 : Yes Correct
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