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SWA, JetBlue, US Air Apply For DCA Slots  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25519 posts, RR: 50
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9825 times:

Last month the DOT established proceeding to reallocated of two former Spirit Airlines within perimeter (1,250 miles) Air-21 slot exemptions at DCA.

Under the Air-21 rules the departments selection criteria consist of;
• New entrant air carriers or limited incumbent air carriers (hold fewer than 40 slots at DCA)
• Service to communities without existing nonstop air transportation to DCA.
• Service to smaller communities.
• Provide competitive nonstop air service on a monopoly DCA route.
• Produce competitive consumer benefits including low fares.

Applications were due yesterday December 5, 2012.

Following were received:

JetBlue
JetBlue proposes to introduce low fare competitive service in the DCA - Jacksonville, FL market, currently a monopoly market operated by US Airways the dominant carrier at DCA. JetBlue proposes to utilize 150-seat A320 equipment.

DCA-JAX 0800-1010
JAX-DCA 1745-1955

JetBlue states the plan to introduce competitive service in this market should provide consumers average airfare savings of 20-30% based on its experience with other DCA markets.

Southwest Airlines
Southwest applies for the slot exemptions in order to provide low-fare service between DCA and Houston, one of the largest and most over-priced monopoly routes at DCA. Southwest proposes to utilize 737 equipment with service to Hobby airport along with beyond connectivity to potentially 42 additional cities.

HOU-DCA 1025-1420
DCA-HOU 1500-1720

Southwest projects its single flight would generate $19.1mil in annual consumer savings over current market fares charged by United Airlines.

US Airways
US Airways, proposes to inaugurate the first-ever nonstop service between DCA and Oklahoma City using 99-seat 2-class E190 equipment.

DCA-OKC 1350-1610
OKC-DCA 1640-2030

US Airways states its proposal fully meets the departments goals as it would not replicate current service, but would provide access to a community without existing nonstop service to DCA.


OST-2000-7182

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2799 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

Yes!!!!!

I really hope US Airways gets this. Would love to see them in OKC!

Man, these DCA slot processes are nail biting!



No info
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1966 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9697 times:

How does DCA-HOU satisfy one of the requirements of being a "smaller community" as per the criteria? I agree WN should would be huge on this route, but seems contrary o the rules.

Also, didn't WN apply for DCA-OKC like JetBlue is doing or was that something else?



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9682 times:

I'm really torn on this one. WN should have just stuck with OKC and would likely have got it. US going after it now makes it pretty interesting. Not really sure how this will turn out though.

Side note. What happened to the thread yesterday that was on this very same topic? I searched and it is gone now. Are threads just getting deleted for some random reason?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9613 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 3):
Also, didn't WN apply for DCA-OKC like JetBlue is doing or was that something else?

WN applied for DCA-OKC for the last pair of slots that were retained by US for JAN-DCA.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

I love OKC but I do no agree with giving more slots to US. If they want to serve the route, they have plenty of slots to use; give it to carriers that have very few slots.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 3):
How does DCA-HOU satisfy one of the requirements of being a "smaller community" as per the criteria?

It is a medium hub, just like OKC. It satisfies the qualification just as much as DCA-JAX on B6 or US at OKC.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 3):
Also, didn't WN apply for DCA-OKC like JetBlue is doing
WN applied for DCA-OKC like US is doing. WN didn't get it back then, I bet they will use some of what US used against them last time against US this time.

[Edited 2012-12-06 13:49:10]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9589 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 3):

How does DCA-HOU satisfy one of the requirements of being a "smaller community" as per the criteria? I agree WN should would be huge on this route, but seems contrary o the rules.

With these proceedings there is never a way to satisfy all 5, so airlines usually pick destinations that will give them the most criteria and run with it. I'm surprised WN didn't pick OKC again, but HOU is a much more important "hub" for them.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25519 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9517 times:

To me, Southwest has the strongest case if you follows DOTs logic in what generates the most consumer benefit.

Houston is indeed a large and a monopoly market from DCA. Not only can SWA inject some pricing competition its Hobby flight also opens up beyond markets options for consumers. So there is not only a direct benefit, but larger network benefit. Also SWA like JetBlue is considered a limited incumbent.

JetBlue, plans for a Jacksonville flight is basically a point-to-point leisure offering. Sure it might be great for that specific market, but its not exactly a large one, nor provide broader network benefits for consumers.

For US, they are the slot king of DCA today and could serve OKC tomorrow if it was a corporate desire. Also their proposed E190 service is the smallest capacity offering of the 3 proposals.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2799 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9475 times:

Politics will play a large role in this decision.

US got theirs in the last award process, WN will get theirs this time around. I think WN knows this, so they applied for one of their stronger hubs (in lieu of OKC) knowing they are owed one now by their lobbyists/politicans.

US is picking OKC because they know they have some politicians on their side and picked OKC specifically because WN did the last time around, and can use WN's previous argument against them and WN really can't contest it without flip-flopping.

I still believe this will go to WN/HOU. As much as I'd like to see US/OKC.



No info
User currently offlineb757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9416 times:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):

Rumor is that if that is approved they will launch PHX-OKC and CLT-OKC on express fleet.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9406 times:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 9):
Politics will play a large role in this decision.
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 9):
I still believe this will go to WN/HOU.

You are spot on.

Quoting b757capt (Reply 10):
Rumor is that if that is approved they will launch PHX-OKC and CLT-OKC on express fleet.

US states in the application if approved they will have 1 daily DCA-OKC and 2 daily CLT-OKC. No PHX.

[Edited 2012-12-06 14:14:52]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9319 times:

I would love to see the OKC flight come from CLT, probably on 2 CRJ 700 or 2 E175

Would love to see TUL


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 12):
Would love to see TUL

The TUL economy needs to be doing better before there is even a point. They are sputtering up there whereas OKC is still booming pretty well.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
US states in the application if approved they will have 1 daily DCA-OKC and 2 daily CLT-OKC. No PHX.

I don't see US trying to go west again from OKC until they would get established with a good customer base. Otherwise WN will kick their tail again.


User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2799 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
US states in the application if approved they will have 1 daily DCA-OKC and 2 daily CLT-OKC. No PHX.

Here's the application for those who would like to view it:

http://www.regulations.gov/contentSt...osition=attachment&contentType=pdf


Proposed Flight Schedule:

OKC-CLT 715a Departure CRJ7/9
CLT-OKC 1247p Arrival CRJ7/9
OKC-CLT 130p Departure CRJ7/9
DCA-OKC 410p Arrival E190
OKC-DCA 440p Departure E190
CLT-OKC 1002p Arrival CRJ7/9



No info
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6617 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9180 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
To me, Southwest has the strongest case if you follows DOTs logic in what generates the most consumer benefit.

I agree. WN has the strongest case and should win.

If OKC had been such a priority for US, they would have launched it already with all their other slots. Instead, they chose smaller markets like TLH, VPS and FAY....that should tell you something.

B6 has a slightly better case, though I have doubts they can make this route work at 1x daily. It's not quite the same kind of leisure route like MCO/TPA/FLL. My guess is that if B6 won, they'd downgrade to an E190 very quickly.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 3):

How does DCA-HOU satisfy one of the requirements of being a "smaller community" as per the criteria?

It's not a requirement, though it is preferred. Remember these slots were used by NK flying to FLL....hardly a small market either. In fact, these slots were specifically created to allow LCC's to serve larger markets...as other slots actually required you to serve small markets (slots like those held by US to serve JAN and CHA and DL to serve LEX).


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8920 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
US Airways states its proposal fully meets the departments goals as it would not replicate current service, but would provide access to a community without existing nonstop service to DCA.

I'm still confused. US Airways can hardly be called a "limited incumbent" at DCA, yet that is one of the criteria:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
• New entrant air carriers or limited incumbent air carriers (hold fewer than 40 slots at DCA)

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8633 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
I'm still confused. US Airways can hardly be called a "limited incumbent" at DCA, yet that is one of the criteria:

Go back to the previous points. They aren't requirements, just preference points on who it will go to.


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8390 times:

It is frustrating and pointless US won't launch a DCA-GPT route. It would make bank with high LF.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8385 times:

I for one think US has a chance... OKC has a lot of federal agencies, and the connection would be pretty useful. I also imagine some pressure from government employees who frequently fly this route won't hurt...

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8342 times:

I think WN will get this one. It would provide competition to UA's service from IAH, and would gain access to a new airport. One could even argue that government employees would be more in favor of this route because it would end the monopoly and resulting overpricing.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8266 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16):
Go back to the previous points. They aren't requirements, just preference points on who it will go to.


Yes, I understand that, and I understand that the DOT can use its discretion. My confusion is that US Airways lists the "limited incumbent" clause but then goes on to say that it "meets the statutory criteria." Some, sure, but not all.

Then I'm confused that Southwest didn't go for OKC-DCA, as it did last time, and (I thought) put up an excellent case. If it had done it this time, I doubt US would have had a chance.

As it stands, I don't see an obvious frontrunner.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8169 times:

US is done before they start.

They are not getting anymore slots at DCA...they could start this route tomorrow if they were interested.

A horse race between WN and B6. DOT likes both...but I think they like B6 a bit more.

HOU makes more sense than JAX though.

Dont forget Navy connections in JAX.

Also, Purple state vs Red State...Blue State Airline vs Red State Airline

Current admin plus all of the above...I would say B6 gets it


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

So if US gets rejected can they still launch service to OKC from CLT?

Also if DCA gets rejected would US fly 3 Daily flights from CLT to make up the capacity or just 2x

[Edited 2012-12-07 03:13:28]

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7753 times:

None of these are smaller communities. I was hoping to see US apply for DCA-GRR.

WN has the strongest case due to the hub in HOU and potential to maximize consumer benefits. B6 is the weakest, it is just point to point. US at least as a hub in DCA and wound be a new entrant to OKC


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6617 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 22):
So if US gets rejected can they still launch service to OKC from CLT?

US can start service from CLT to OKC anytime they want...tying it to the DCA service is just a political ploy and nothing else.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 23):
None of these are smaller communities.

Not required to be smaller communities and again these slots were previously used for FLL...also not a small community.


25 sdoyon : The US application is pretty weak in my mind, especially if you take out the CLT-OKC section of the proposal (as the DOT should, as it has no bearing
26 HPRamper : US wants DCA to be a fortress. DCA-OKC is what US is gambling on to further strengthen the hub. I don't understand why many here think US should just
27 Post contains links ouboy79 : WN is starting a petition drive for the DCA-HOU application just like they did with DCA-AUS: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/he...ca-%E2%80%93-hou-r
28 Post contains images enilria : Couldn't agree more.
29 GentFromAlaska : I hope they evaluate Houston-Washington as a whole not just HOU but the fares between IAH-DCA. If memory serves me the two airports are separated by
30 southwest737500 : I love the idea on a 2X OKC route from CLT I think US should be more aggressive and do 3X and one A319 flight and 2 CRJ700 That's what I think. They'l
31 HPRamper : Southwest in their blog claims 30 miles. Too bad CLT is not an E-jet base, I think the Embraers would be perfect for this route. The CRJ will seem cr
32 sdoyon : I don't believe they should bow out either--it's anyone's game. I'm of the opinion that US's proposal is not only weaker than the other two, but also
33 southwest737500 : I agree I love the CRJ but OKC is about 2hours 15 min flight they should get the E190 on that route I would love to see a E190 base back in CLT. Why
34 jetmatt777 : Not just ATC, but the FAA does a huge amount of training for all of their various workgroups in OKC. I'd say at any given time there are around 1,000
35 jetmatt777 : US is proposing E190 on DCA and CRJ7/CRJ9 on CLT.
36 LAXintl : Yes SWA specifically in its argument as to the importance of adding competition to the Houston market points out how disjointed the fares are on Unit
37 GentFromAlaska : I found one URL which mentions 38 km or 23.6 miles between IAH and HOU; a 45 minute drive with favorable traffic. The two airports are further than I
38 OM617 : I am trying to learn the business aspects of airlines, so feel free to set me straight! Looking at the US proposal, they project carrying 56,000 passe
39 LOWS : I have done IAD-OKC on multiple occasions on CR7s. It's not great, but it's not awful either.
40 Flighty : First, connections would occur through both DC and CLT... splitting one each is very feasible. Since there is no nonstop DCA-OKC right now, the marke
41 southwest737500 : I understand that I was just hoping that they flew the EJets for that route
42 bobloblaw : Nonstop service will stimulate the market. I think a 2030 arrival will have connections there is a 2130 or something bank.
43 sdoyon : With the deadline for comments coming up (tomorrow, I believe)...has anyone heard anything?
44 ouboy79 : What do you expect to hear? We probably won't see an announcement until Jan/Feb.
45 sdoyon : More expecting responses from the airlines in regards to other proposals. I remember the ones from before [US-JAN, WN-OKC, F9-SDF] were particularly
46 SouthernDC9 : Those were awesome, I was waiting for Southwest to file official notification that if US got the slots WN wanted, then WN was never, ever talking to
47 apodino : I smell a rat with the US application. Didn't US pull out of OKC not long ago on the PHX route it inherited from HP? Unless they started CLT service,
48 SouthernDC9 : Actually though the last time one of these slots was up for grabs WN proposed service to OKC... so it seems somebody thinks there's a market there. A
49 usflyguy : With WN, OKC could have provided connections to DAL, HOU, DEN, LAS, PHX. Now with HOU, they'll still have all of those connecting opportunities plus
50 airliner371 : Today Southwest sent in there response to B6 and US. Something new I discovered is they plan on offering direct service to ABQ.
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