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US Airways Makes Formal Merger Offer For AA  
User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40921 times:

We knew this day was coming

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-73612409/

Says the combined company will be valued at $8.5 billion. A deal could be concluded next month.

[Edited 2012-12-07 13:04:10]


UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
241 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40884 times:

Finally. Article is kinda vague... what is standing in the way / helping the merger out? DOJ concerns, AA's management not wanting a buyout, etc?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40809 times:

Finally.... Now lets get our hands dirty!


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinenw1852 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40837 times:

Great...Looks like AA will have their new livery for about 10 seconds.

User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 478 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40754 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Finally. Article is kinda vague... what is standing in the way / helping the merger out? DOJ concerns, AA's management not wanting a buyout, etc?

Horton's ego and his stock options in a post-BK AMR standalone, which will never exist at this point.

Since the NDA, US has had plenty of time to dig through AMR's finances and has, in all likelihood, presented the UCC with an offer they are certain Horton will not be able to beat, now that AMR's fixed costs are finally established in the wake of today's ratified AA pilot LBFO.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40433 times:

All it took was the APA agreement to get US on bended knee. Although it seems more like a shotgun wedding.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 687 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40380 times:

Can't say I'm surprised. Hopes it works out for all of us on both sides. There is great potential for success or failure with this merger if approved.


The New American is arriving.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40334 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 4):
LBFO.

What's this?

Good to hear that this is moving forward; I always thought that AA would welcome US; after all, it's an airline that makes AA look very good indeed.

Seriously, though, AA needs help to get its act together and there does not seem to be a lot of confidence in the current AA management. I guess the key question I would have (and I'm sure employees of both airlines would have) is this: over and above raising the $8.5b to buy AA, does US have the resources to invest in AA and bring it around. Will it invest in its product, cabin crew training (including rebuilding morale - and that applies across the airline, not just cabin crew). I really do hope that this is a success for both carriers.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40341 times:

Well the boys in Tempe better start packing    Not looking forward to this at all... the shuttering of another hub at an airport I have connections to is not something I can handle well.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40336 times:

Damn.......gone are the days of a nice US Airways livery and Star Alliance benefits for us Divdend Miles members.

User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40216 times:

Screw this merger. US Is a great airline, there goes the livery and bye bye star alliance I loved the star

User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4281 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40098 times:

Y'all give up too easily, LOL.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40102 times:

Bad news for Tempe and PHX.

User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 832 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 40000 times:

US Airways is bringing no cash to the table. It will be a 100% stock transaction. If Parker thinks the combined company will be valued at 8 billion he is dreaming. Far from a done deal ... Especially in current market conditions considering this is an all stock transaction

Patience people.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39981 times:

Not surprised, but this could be good or bad for FWA.

If things turn out positively, PHL and/or CLT could be added from FWA (with the Lincoln Financial and Wells Fargo connections, I wouldn't be surprised). Or US/AA could pull a PIT dehubbing on FWA and tell pax to just take them out of IND. I will be eager to see which route they take.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 9):
gone are the days of a nice US Airways livery
Quoting nw1852 (Reply 3):
Great...Looks like AA will have their new livery for about 10 seconds.

I'm willing to bet that the brand for the merged airline will be named American Airlines and the livery will be the new AA livery that we don't know much about other than it's based on silver paint. The idea of the AA image surviving isn't far-fetched: AA creditors would own 70% of the new US/AA per the article.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Well the boys in Tempe better start packing   

Arizona will flight hard to ensure that US/AA HQ remains in Tempe. They don't want a repeat of UA/CO where Chicago won out over Houston due to sUA contracts, even though Houston is a far better place to do business. But I think that Texas will win out, even though both Arizona and Texas are very pro-business states.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39973 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Well the boys in Tempe better start packing Not looking forward to this at all... the shuttering of another hub at an airport I have connections to is not something I can handle well.

I don't think they are going to give up PHX. It's too important of a sun destination and it also has good West Coast connections. I know DAL is close, but MSP is close to DTW and they both operate fine, too.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 9):
Damn.......gone are the days of a nice US Airways livery and Star Alliance benefits for us Divdend Miles members.

Well, you get OW instead, which isn't exactly something to sneeze at. We all know that US's days as a *A member were numbered once the UA/CO merger happened.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39921 times:

US and HP merger is still working itself out how many years later?
I can't wait to see the results of THIS one...someone get me a decade's supply of popcorn!!!


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39895 times:

If you'd told me 10 years ago that in a decade only United, USAir, and Delta would exist, I'd tell you you were nuts...


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39823 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
Arizona will flight hard to ensure that US/AA HQ remains in Tempe.

US Airways has said the merged airline will be HQed in Dallas, no question about it.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineYflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39829 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Finally. Article is kinda vague... what is standing in the way / helping the merger out? DOJ concerns, AA's management not wanting a buyout, etc?

Well, a few nights ago I heard on NPR that AA's management will get a large bonus if the airline emerges from bankruptsy as a standalone company, so I would imagine they're doing everything in their power to avoid merging.


User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 478 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39761 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
What's this?

LBFO = Last Best Final Offer.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39770 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 13):
US Airways is bringing no cash to the table. It will be a 100% stock transaction. If Parker thinks the combined company will be valued at 8 billion he is dreaming. Far from a done deal ... Especially in current market conditions considering this is an all stock transaction

Patience people.

Hallelujah.

I don't understand why some people think that the phrase "US Airways makes merger offer for AA" means "AA/US are merging." People, they are not the same thing.

The fact that the APA and AA came to an agreement today takes away most of DP's leverage, IMO. This will be a decision made by AA's creditors, not Doug Parker or Tom Horton.

US trying to turn around AA is the blind leading the blind. No offense intended, but that's the way I see it. AA can do it by themselves, and they'll be better off for it.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 39769 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
Arizona will flight hard to ensure that US/AA HQ remains in Tempe. They don't want a repeat of UA/CO where Chicago won out over Houston due to sUA contracts, even though Houston is a far better place to do business. But I think that Texas will win out, even though both Arizona and Texas are very pro-business states.

I sure hope so, but I haven't seen crap from Jan or Greg or Mark about trying to stop this.

if things go PHX's way, we may finally see Asian service, however.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 16):
US and HP merger is still working itself out how many years later?

   this. There's no way this can actually proceed before east and west merge together. If not, we'll have east, west, and south   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 39595 times:

Still not buying that it's as "done" a deal as some here continue to claim. I think the merger stands a good chance of happening, but I don't think it's a done deal - still plenty ahead to work out.

If it happens, the good news for me personally and other DFW-area travelers is that DFW will inevitably remain the headquarters, and largest hub, of American Airlines - with or without a merger. The name would stay AA, which I'm happy about, and the resulting airline would remain in oneworld, which I'm also happy about. In addition, the headquarters remaining in DFW would virtually guarantee that a large portion of the corporate functions running the company would be legacy-AA, not legacy-USAirways, regardless of who the actually executives are at the top. As somebody who views AA as the superior airline in a wide variety of areas including most aspects of hard and soft product, ground and onboard service, frequent flyer program, and IT/systems, that to me is a good thing. The combined company would have an expanded network with improved access to the northeast and to some extent Europe. I just hope that if Parker does get his hands on one of the largest and most storied brands in the industry he doesn't royally screw it up by imposing cheapened and suboptimal service or systems (SHARES) onto the "new AA."

And if a merger doesn't happen, I think AA will be just fine as well. The last year has seen AA improve dramatically in a variety of areas - without any "help" from Doug Parker. New (and very nice) planes are arriving at the rate of almost one per week. New onboard products and amenities are and will soon be rolling out, including the new longhaul premium meal service which I'm looking forward to enjoying soon. AA's IT systems from AA.com to the mobile app to tablets for pilots and FAs are continuing to see more and more enhancements. All of that is very positive.

I believe now, have believed, and will continue to believe regardless of the revisionist history that the unions have been and will always continue to be pushing that AA has very bright long-term prospects with or without a merger. AA does not "need" a USAirways merger (in fact quite the opposite - Parker desperately needs this merger far more than AA or Horton does). So whatever happens, I look forward to it just happening already. Merger or no merger, I'm looking forward to some clarity soon.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 18):
US Airways has said the merged airline will be HQed in Dallas, no question about it.

Fort Worth, not Dallas.  


User currently offlineaa77w From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 40912 times:

Maybe I'm naïvé, but I don't see this as a done deal. I mean AA has requested the ability to come out of BK as a standalone carrier be extended through March, 2013 and with labor relations as they are at both companies, it seems to me that there is no way that this will happen by Jan, or anytime in the near future. Again, not an expert by any means, but there seems to be a long road ahead before this could be a reality.

25 commavia : They've got nothing to say. Earlier reports alluded to Parker's sales pitches all over Capitol Hill, where he was almost certainly - and not surprisi
26 b757capt : Totally and respectfully disagree with you. There is so much value that the AMR Managment has left untouched.
27 phxa340 : I am talking about what the financial markets value the new AA. Nothing to do with untapped value that management is leaving on the table. IPOs have
28 seatback : With AA creditors holding a 70 percent stake in the new company, wouldn't that put AA in the driver's seat? The creditors will determine who runs the
29 Post contains images Acey559 : Not to argue semantics, but it won't be Delta, United and US Airways; it would be Delta, United and American. I'm not convinced either though. I'd pr
30 brilondon : Why? This sounds something like the TWA/AA merger and the USAPA will just have their seniority list stapled to the bottom of the APA's list. What is
31 blueflyer : The surviving image has very little to do with who owns what. The post-merger airline could be 100% owned by US Airways shareholders and it would sti
32 deltaffindfw : That will most likely not be the case. With the new laws, binding arbitration is mandatory if they can't come to a compromise. I seriously doubt an i
33 deltairlines : Doubt it. Maybe eventually a 4x/week 787 on JAL to Narita. Still doubtful though - the LAX operation will remain pretty respectable and that's where
34 JBirdAV8r : Last Best Final Offer This is nothing like the TWA/AA merger. There will be no stapling of seniority lists.
35 platinumfoota : So..... no American Airways??
36 LAXdude1023 : This was inevitable. We knew this day was coming, but lets keep a few things in mind: 1) So far this is just an offer. We already know AA itself will
37 EricR : I would like to clear up one item. Parker doesn't "desperately need" this merger far more than American. US is very profitable (more so than AA) and
38 DocLightning : No. TWA was broke. Not just bankrupt but broke. On the day AA took over, TWA did not have enough cash on hand to fund their operations for the day. T
39 GSPSPOT : Wow! So the merger potential is becoming reality - at least solicitation of a merger is reality. Can't wait to see what happens!
40 allegiantflyer : all we can do is hope that this doesn't happen! It would be a complete mess!
41 dcann40 : One of the reasons cited for the United-US Air merger failing was the question of leadership (Tilton). No way to predict who would run the show in th
42 CoachClass : Good god. I hope that the livery isn't like what UA/CO did.
43 Post contains images SPREE34 : I see no similarity at all. If there is a merger, there will be negotiations, then arbitration if necessary. (Not that USAPA understands the concept)
44 gilesdavies : So, so, so hope this does not go through... I love US Airways, just the way they are! I like their Dividend Miles, being a member or Star think their
45 Post contains images Viscount724 : AA was American Airways until 1934. August 1933 timetable. June 1934 timetable.
46 mayor : Exactly..........during US' failed attempt to gobble up DL during our BK, it was clear that Parker wanted it to be basically US Airways, but with DL'
47 kevindca : So true. Kirby seems to think that this merger will solve the labor issues because AA employees will be the overwhelming majority, and since they hav
48 Beardown91737 : I hope this merger doesn't happen because US adds to, and fills the gaps in UA's network, without taking me way out of the way like SLC or DFW. I also
49 Pu : AA's primary raison d'être is the relentless pursuit of premium markets and the most premium fliers. Their cornerstone plan, route structure, allianc
50 commavia : I generally agree. The combined airline would have an impressive network that is essentially at parity with Delta in terms of scope, breadth and acce
51 usairways85 : From the perspective of the top tier AA elites they probably have a different opinion I agree here, but just look at the UA/CO merger. Without going
52 southwest737500 : US please look at how great your airline is, your doing great financially, you don't need to merge just build on what you have Oh yeah and the US live
53 mayor : Perhaps it was because that Delta was a more well known brand, compaired to US. The order should be USAirways, Delta and now AA. US Air was already "
54 commavia : My typo - I meant United, not USAirways.
55 Post contains images CGKings317 : Doesn't this merger, if ultimately approved by the creditors, also require DOJ approval? If it does, is it necessarily a foregone conclusion that DOJ
56 incitatus : With labor costs in parity with other airlines US is not a viable entity. US's days as it is today are numbered - merger or no merger.
57 LAXdude1023 : I know what you're thinking: that a merger will harm the CLT hub. I might be inclined to share your concern if I lived out there. Don't worry too muc
58 JBirdAV8r : I enjoy reading many of your posts because you often raise cogent points that really get my wheels turning. However, I think your rationale for worry
59 Post contains images AA94 : They did at one point, but with contracts getting figured out, do the unions still need a merger? The merger with US was the APA bargaining chip, but
60 Post contains images bos2laf : And said laws were passed largely as a result of the brutal rape of the TW workforce in that merger.
61 dcann40 : Remember, people thought that the AT&T/T-Mobile merger would proceed without a hitch as well. We all know how that turned out. The combination sug
62 Byrdluvs747 : Oh, how soon people forget the past. I'll never forget his attempt to charge for water. All of you who are praising this merger will be cursing it onc
63 rj777 : Although a lot of people think it's almost a certainty, considering everything that's happened with the unions and all, until we see the thread that s
64 dcann40 : I readily admit, I forgot that. But just ask the FAs over at US what they think of him versus the FAs at AA? Odd circumstance of the grass is always
65 BDL757 : I agree with what you're saying. American is/was known for promoting its' classiness and upscale service particularly on trans-cons and international
66 etops1 : All I see on here is a bunch of US haters as usual who don't know jack of what they are talking about . This merger is a done deal wether you guts lik
67 LAXdude1023 : Then you need to open your eyes. There's quite a few "Keep US my US" people on here.
68 Post contains images flyguy89 : Refreshing to see a formal proposal finally on the table after all the speculation. I doubt Mr. Parker will be able to woo AA's creditors in the short
69 Byrdluvs747 : Are you saying the US FA's like Parker? I have talked to many FA's who have less than stellar things to say about him. Don't forget the wine service
70 Post contains images Beardown91737 : 1. I knew that. My post that you quoted was about how you said the TX congressional delegation is telling Parker in 'no uncertain terms' that the HQ
71 commavia : I hear you that he's a smart guy and he isn't going to "change things just for the sake of change." But I also hear (or rather, see) in my head the c
72 AAplat4life : First, we do not know what Parker is bringing to the table yet or what AMR is offering as a stand-alone entity. Chance are that the secured creditors
73 micstatic : I'm mixed on this merger. The last few rounds of mergers have eliminated enough capacity to make the current carriers profitable. I'm wondering if a t
74 BE77 : And if you were a bit older, you would have thought the same about TWA, Braniff, PanAm, (and CP and WardAir for us canoeheads). Not being cynical, bu
75 EricR : The last few rounds of mergers have eliminated enough capacity to make the current carriers profitable. I'm wondering if a tie-up between US/AA would
76 AAIL86 : As you should know - Parker has already officially proposed that the headquarters would remain in Fort Worth. What, you think someone from AA is now
77 einsteinboricua : It's only an offer. If a car salesman makes you an offer for a car, does it mean that it's already sold?
78 avek00 : AMR gets little of value from a merger with US Airways, and is better off building strengths at existing hubs rather than tosing a billion dollars dow
79 Post contains images AA94 : Agreed. .. and good for him. But who says that Parker's business plan is right for AA? It clearly isn't. AA is a different airline than US is, and th
80 mayor : This merger (only an offer) is about as much of a done deal, at this point, as when US went after DL. Was THAT a done deal? Hardly.
81 AAIL86 : I didn't endorse Parker's plan at all. There's no bigger AA cheerleader then I am, having worked there for 8 years and am now a very regular customer
82 Pu : Which could be duplicated anytime by AA if it was so valuable; and AA already has the better TATL hub. Much of US in Europe was tried and rejected by
83 flyingbobcat787 : Also do not forget that US made an offer for Delta and we all know how that one ended as well
84 LAXdude1023 : I would argue that what US brings to the table that AA cannot get on its own is two fold: 1) The PHL and CLT local markets. Both of these US has host
85 AirframeAS : They said the exact same thing when US went after DL, and look what happened to that now. This is a proposal, not a "done deal". Two totally differen
86 BarryH : Consider these points: - AA retrenched while others grew primarily because their cost structure was so out of whack they couldn't effectively compete.
87 AAIL86 : [quote=BarryH,reply=90]Consider these points: An excellent analysis, thanks. I wonder if the BK court and creditors will see it this way?
88 strandedinbgm : Dear Lord, please do everything in your power to not let this happen.
89 Post contains images AA94 : Well stated on all points. Sorry if it came off as saying that you endorsed Parker's plan - not my intent. And while I agree with your points about A
90 Pu : On the face of it, yes, I agree these are things US brings to the table. But certainly nothing else. AA made a serious effort at RDU. It doesn't work
91 Cubsrule : I share your skepticism about whether AA "needs" CLT, but failure at RDU at a time when the region was much smaller and there was a much larger hub t
92 Flighty : People need to remember this is about running a business, not running a fantasy airline for the glory of its own staff. US has proved their business s
93 Cubsrule : The point is that the "ruthless service" of customers paying $200 to fly MDT-MCO isn't the same as the "ruthless service" of customers paying $3,000
94 commavia : I agree with those who believe AA does not "need" USAirways in order to be viable and successful long-term. Nonetheless, I also disagree with those wh
95 deltaguy767 : One aspect which has not been discussed is the potential pressure from Wall Street to make a deal happen. All of the bulge-bracket Investment Banks ar
96 Flighty : Mostly I mean US serves its customers well. They are ruthless about infrastructure cost. They would see a lot behind the scenes at AA that is entirel
97 Pu : Outstanding contribution, thanks for adding new thinking to those of us constrained by routes, hubs, etc. How plausible is it that the investment ban
98 Cubsrule : Maybe not, but the inflight product at US did see impact and customers balked. Remember the charging for water debacle?
99 avek00 : A couple responses: 1. AA is still able to pursue the expansion of its footprint at Kennedy if so desired, and a nicely built out Kennedy hub trumps
100 commavia : I disagree. AA does have an enviable facility footprint at JFK - one that I'm sure will be a major asset for them to continue capitalizing on for dec
101 D L X : Also, US's management made an offer for US, and it apparently went pretty well.
102 dcann40 : While this depends on connections and flights, I think that JFK has greater mindshare in the minds of travelers than PHL which is why it in that resp
103 Cubsrule : When CLT is lower cost and, for many itineraries, less out of the way, why would this be so?
104 BarryH : On what basis? It's easy to be lean when you're running a primarily domestic operation. Throw in government control of operations overseas, internati
105 deltairlines : I'd add one more thing to the list - granted it's more short-term, but still beneficial, and that is the ability to have a good sized large RJ fleet.
106 Cubsrule : Unless the MIA-PUJ local market is underserved - and I have a hard time swallowing that argument - what does flowing that traffic over MIA accomplish
107 LAXdude1023 : 1) AA can't have at JFK what US has at PHL. It's as simple as that. AA can't have a hub that serves not only almost all major cities in the US, but a
108 Post contains images flyguy89 : My sentiments exactly. I think with the continuing vast improvement in AA's performance over the past year, their "new" management has proven themsel
109 Cubsrule : You are making a different argument. Removing capacity from CLT rather than MIA is much different from what he suggested, which was shifting connecti
110 flyguy89 : Well I think shifting traffic flows to an extent will be a result of removing capacity from the market, but no I don't believe that connecting flows
111 Cubsrule : . . . then we are saying the same thing. The shifting traffic is going to be more in markets like SKB, ANU or UVF that will likely lose the CLT conne
112 FSXJunkie : I'd think that fleet repainting will be handled in a similar fashion as United/Continental. All birds would be in current US Airways colors with "Ame
113 RyanairGuru : Not necessarily. From GSO it is a shorter flight to IAD than ATL, meaning that unless I want to got to SAV or MSY, total trip isn't really much diffe
114 avek00 : My sentiments exactly. CLT ain't a bad hub, at all - it's quite good, actually. However, I stand by my assertion that AA would realize more upside in
115 rj777 : Actually, I have a feeling that the new AA livery has something to do with the merger. I mean think about it. AA confirms a new color scheme around t
116 tpaewr : I know Sabre spun off from AMR in 2000, does anyone know if AA retained the intellectual property rights the way CO did for SHARES. Also US got SHARES
117 dcann40 : I would suspect AA got favorable licensing terms (very favorable) but the entire purpose of spinning Sabre off as a separate business was a bit diffe
118 crAAzy : For those who fly and pay for F the answer is an easy yes. It doesn't need to be in every market but many of us will even go as far as choosing an ex
119 Wingtips56 : It is pretty much a coincidence. AA is going to be getting in new fleets of aircraft with fully composite exteriors (787) or increasingly composite e
120 flyguy89 : Sure, but that's only for certain markets and certain traffic flows. The number of markets where IAD, domestically, is more ideal than CLT or ATL is
121 dcann40 : That pretty much sums up my thinking. There is little downside for AA in terms of emerging from bankruptcy alone. The chances are that US will deteri
122 AA94 : Absolutely. I'd bet a large sum of money that you are incorrect. AA is already developing a new branding and livery, and the entire fleet would be re
123 DocLightning : It's more than "only" an offer. It's an offer that occurs at the end of an extended NDA for discussing this very possibility. And remember, AA's cred
124 Post contains images commavia : Exactly. JFK (and LGA) and PHL can be optimized for different purposes. PHL is and always will be a larger, and better, hub, for the reasons already
125 777STL : Not to mention that if a combined US/AA went all in with AA's branding, it wouldn't make much sense to muddy that by continuing to keep US's livery w
126 Post contains images JBo : What's really going to muddy the waters is the thought of adding so many more heritage liveries to the fleet. Which, as cool as that would be, I woul
127 EricR : -The byproduct of the bankruptcy will be a "new AA" both cosmetically and structurally. Growth opportunities are virtually limitless and what's known
128 STT757 : Isn't there something to be said for adding the millions (?) of loyal US fliers to the AA network, thus expanding their "base" of travelers. As mentio
129 commavia : I'm not sure if I'd agree with the characterization as "not as solid," although it is true that AA has intense competition in most of its cornerstone
130 Post contains images commavia : Definitely true - that would actually be one of the biggest network benefits of the combination. In many large markets, this would instantly create a
131 dcann40 : I tend to agree. US is unknown in almost every region of the world and has a weak brand IMO (I think it was stronger before the change from US Air to
132 STT757 : Otherwise their business strategy is simply to emerge from bankruptcy alone and try win back lost travelers in their "cornerstone" markets of Chicago
133 EricR : While I understand what you are getting at, I think there is a lot more value in a specific hub airport than in a hub region. For example, UA's EWR h
134 BarryH : One word. Yields. All the "cornerstones" are big O/D markets and AA has lucrative corporate contracts with large companies that book premium fares an
135 Post contains images Flighty : Well said. People have this knee jerk reactions that hubs such as JFK and LAX are the primary moneymakers in the airline biz. It just isn't so. Their
136 commavia : True, although I don't think AA will have much trouble addressing those competitive pressures now that they are finally freed from the union contract
137 DocLightning : Yes, that was stopped (and rightly so) by the government. If ATT and TM had merged, then Verizon and Sprint would have merged and that would have lef
138 BarryH : No it's not. It's been profitible because of lower-than-industry pay scales for what accounts for 1/3 to 1/2 of their overall labor expense because t
139 avek00 : Not really. By its own admission, US Airways operates at a 10-15% revenue DISADVANTAGE compared to its legacy peers. Put another way, what US brings
140 commavia : Yes. Well nobody has fully "addressed" it publicly, but of course we all know what Parker's plan is: he's betting that the revenue "synergies" will o
141 BarryH : No one should doubt that a merger will eventually happen. The question is timing and who's the hunter and who's the pray. AA is stronger than US even
142 commavia : I'm less concerned about the semantics of who buys who. The bottom line is that the combined airline will be called "American," and headquartered in
143 BarryH : Parker's offer has already been deemed to have overvalued US' worth by a $1B. That's a pretty big number. If I were doing the analysis I'd produce tw
144 commavia : Well that may be a pretty big number, but whose number is it? Everybody on all sides are doing one big dance right now. It's called negotiation. Park
145 BarryH : Here's an analogy. You're living in a house you're perfectly fine with (AA). There's a house you want to buy that no one else wants and you know that
146 STT757 : But isn't that more indicative of their business model then their hub market's potential. Again their stock ticker is "LCC", not exactly indicative o
147 commavia : Well as has been previously discussed I think that if a merger happens the USAirways employees (especially the ex-America West folks) would soon have
148 Cubsrule : I've long wondered whether US has some revenue management problems. Here's a case in point: I buy a lot of tickets to other cities in the southeast 3
149 deltairlines : Keep in mind that the second character is Cost, not Fare. It absolutely has an impact on the hub market's potential - if they cannot stimulate higher
150 usairways85 : Well they don't have the code LCC for nothing. But I agree, for last minute tickets (less than a week before travel) US is typically several hundred
151 Post contains links EricR : Unfortunately, those cornerstone markets are in competitive hubs where average fares are below those of fortress hubs. This information is publicly a
152 Cubsrule : What happens when you adjust for stage length? Surely, IAD and JFK move down some (and JFK is pretty bad already), and DCA moves up some. I don't kno
153 BarryH : You answered your own question. "Average fares" are based on O/D and don't take in to account the full revenue value of the JFK/CDG portion of someon
154 phxa340 : According the the WSJ , that is the creditors number. They believe Parker is overvaluing US. I said this in the beginning of the thread ... Parker re
155 EricR : You answered your own question. "Average fares" are based on O/D and don't take in to account the full revenue value of the JFK/CDG portion of someone
156 CIDFlyer : Finally it looks like something is going on here. I kind of would like to see it happen, AA would be a powerhouse along the east coast with PHL/DCA/CL
157 dcann40 : Well, apparently something has been happening for several weeks and some of the details were just leaked on Friday.
158 flyguy89 : But what good does that do the airline if the number of people paying those high average fares is so small? Say US is transporting ~2 million O&D
159 dcann40 : There's no question that quantity can over come most obstacles. I suspect quantity is what US is after, when all is said and done.
160 BarryH : You can't look at it that way. Let's say AA assigned a pro-rate value of $99 to the LAX/JFK leg of a $499 fare LAX/JFK/CDG. Based on lower CASM, the
161 ckfred : I saw the Zagat list of worst airlines. As you would suspect the worst airlines were Ryanair, Spirit, and Easyjet. Aeroflot was number 4. US was numbe
162 LipeGIG : A merger means chances to increase revenue while driving costs down. Service improvement is a great chance to improve yields as if US become a better
163 etops1 : Yes, but since no body cares what you think , it's irrelevant . At the the end of the day , these airlines are going to do what they want . The credi
164 LAXdude1023 : The consensus seems to be that it depends on what type of aircraft you are on with US. Their 330's are great and the Airbus 319/320/321 are decent as
165 Cubsrule : YMMV, but I find both the 319s/320s and the 737s pretty bad.
166 Post contains links EricR : Before looking at a Zagat poll and automatically drawing a conclusion based on their poll, I would recommend looking at the criteria they used to com
167 LAXdude1023 : Im no US apologist, but polls are worthless. Give me some scientific evidence or something that can be quantified. Polls are often based on one-off e
168 nwcoflyer : The Airbus fleet makes up the majority of the US service now. All of the 737-300s have been retired, and the -400's will be out next. The 767-200's w
169 dcann40 : Zagat's methodology for this is the same as for the restaurant reviews.
170 Cubsrule : It is hard to compare on-time arrivals across carriers when discussing a number of hubs with serious structural on-time arrival issues (JFK, LGA, PHL
171 Post contains links VFRontop : Worst at what? Financially Ryanair is one of the most successful airlines in the world as well as one of the most punctual. If you look at punctualit
172 EricR : While I can see this point of view, it is the carrier's choice to have a hub in a highly congestion location (they are afterall contributing to the c
173 Cubsrule : That is, of course, true, but you seem to imply that US would have a better on-time performance than AA given AA's network. Otherwise, why compare th
174 EricR : The only reason why I compared both AA & US is because I was replying to a previous post where the poster asked why AA would want to merge with U
175 avek00 : I totally get what you're saying, but I'm highly skeptical capacity reductions on a strongly revenue-disadvantaged network will result in yield incre
176 nwcoflyer : So just to play devils advocate... you believe that Parker, Kirby and the US group have no solid basis for their case to merge with AA and are just d
177 Cubsrule : How 'bout putting it this way: their plan for merging with AA is as solid as their plan for merging with DL was.
178 N737AA : 737-400's???? N737AA
179 nwcoflyer : I was Comparing the 734s at us to the M80s at AA
180 EaglePower83 : Uhhh, if you've seen what's been going on at United....it really does matter who's sitting in the Sears Tower.
181 Flighty : This merger is better thought out, and more justifiable, than the UA CO merger. That said, it has maybe a 50% chance of happening. Strong forces for
182 dcann40 : I would say a 50-50 chance, or even odds, if about right. Lots of things can happen on the way to the wedding chapel, as people say.
183 Post contains images commavia : In individual markets - especially PHX - I agree it's unlikely. Some of the capacity will inevitably be back-filled. But overall if they take some po
184 dcann40 : Should I quote George Santayana again? While I agree with everything you said, people have very very short memories.
185 AA94 : I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. I understand the "more justifiable" part, but the "better thought out" part? Perhaps it's because of the un
186 Flighty : This has been going on for years. It was public as early as 2009.
187 rampart : Polls have their shortcomings, but they aren't worthless. They're data, and difficult to find that kind of measurement anywhere else. Zagat use a ran
188 EaglePower83 : LOL! Way to misunderstand me. UA isn't a cluster because Smisek is "from" CO or anywhere.....it's because he's a bad leader and I was getting at it r
189 commavia : Well I would take the news that both pilot unions have now been included in the nondisclosure agreement and merger talks that the inertia is moving to
190 Post contains links 727LOVER : Horton says AA turnaround nearly done: http://baynews9.com/content/news/bay...irline_turnaround_nearly_done.html
191 nwcoflyer : I agree. If they can work out some kind of deal with the pilots this deal may very well be a go. Having the pilots "buy-in" and all the labor groups
192 rj777 : Didn't the AA FA unions support a merger with US when Parker was wooing them?
193 nwcoflyer : They still do, as do the TWU workgroups and APA. All of those agreements they signed with Parker are still valid.
194 HPRamper : The only way to properly rank the airlines voted upon would be to have the voters required to have recently flown every airline they are voting upon.
195 EricR : Actually that is a bad example. The polls that showed a 50/50 split poll based on popular vote. The final popular vote was 51% Obama, 47% Romney, 2%
196 gegarrenton : You're right, they're the worst.
197 nwcoflyer : Yes they are horrible. US runs one of the best A:14's of the network carriers, have one of the lowest MBR's, one of the youngest fleets and has been
198 rampart : It's not that bad. It would be ideal if a large sample of customers had flown every airline recently, but that's obviously impossible. No customer se
199 rj777 : Ok. so if (when) this merger goes through, for major US Airlines (meaning airlines with widebody aircraft) that leaves us with: AA UA DL
200 usairways85 : Pretty crazy when you think ~15 years ago it was UA US NW CO TW AA DL HP
201 iFlyLOTs : HA as well. They seem to fit that criteria.
202 rj777 : Still....... only 4. The government is going to have a hard time OK'ing this one.
203 ckfred : But, the unions talk about how current and past AA management have run AA into the ground. Yet, they want to merge with another carrier, who many fee
204 seabosdca : Poor definition. It's just not reasonable to say WN is not a major airline. It's even getting unreasonable to say WN is not a legacy, given how its c
205 micstatic : On a domestic basis, I prefer US Airways to American.
206 dank : How's it unreasonable? They never served interstate flights under regulation. Now, it may be getting unreasonable to say that they don't have some of
207 incitatus : There is no reason to think that in the medium term this would be it. We might see a surge in capacity from Spirit and/or Virgin. Also if there are e
208 silentbob : Definitions change over the years.
209 commavia : I suspect the AA unions' expectation is that the US unions will be largely a non-issue if the AA employees outnumber the US employees 2-to-1 in most
210 gigneil : I dont know anyone that feels that. US is one of the best run airlines in the world. Major US airline is defined by the DOT as an airline with revenu
211 aaexecplat : There is the possibility that they think exactly that. Given how tone deaf they have been all along, one can't rule out this possibility. Otherwise,
212 dank : I don't see how this one does. It is defined by the fact that these airlines were legacies from the era of regulation. Just because an airline like s
213 Cubsrule : I agree with that, but they are well run in a different niche within the airline industry than AA. I wouldn't necessarily expect Hyundai management t
214 commavia : The change is amazing, but it was natural and ultimate it has been, and will continue to be, good for the industry. If a merger does occur, we will e
215 Cubsrule : I'm not convinced that US has done anything good with cost containment that AA hasn't done or won't do on its own in bankruptcy. What are you thinkin
216 777STL : I completely agree. How many aircraft does WN have? 7xx? I'd have a hard time *not* considering that to be a major airline. Likewise for B6 and AS, a
217 SPREE34 : Sort of ironic, at least in the case of USAPA, wouldn't you say?
218 silentbob : I call it Karma. It would be even more appropriate if they use a three list solution and the West guys move farther up the list than they would have
219 iFlyLOTs : Okay, so if this merger happens, what would the fleet look like and where would it all be utilized?
220 Post contains images gigneil : I can say for sure nobody knows I bet they have some Airbus planes.... NS
221 seabosdca : That seems obvious, with one exception. Rapidly disappearing MD-80s, huge fleets of A319/A320/A321 and 738, 757 sticking around for some niche market
222 etops1 : Don't forget the E190's .
223 ckfred : I was just looking at a financial website, pointing out that the smaller carriers, such as Frontier and Jet Blue, get far better marks for customer s
224 d93 : Exactly. USAir's stock is trading at double what it's worth based on merger rumors. The shareholders will take a bath on this deal as it's currently
225 seabosdca : I keep seeing comments like this and it just doesn't square with my experience, *except* if we are talking about ground staff at PHL. I've found ever
226 phxa340 : Welcome to my RR list. Less than 5 remembers on here are actually talking about the financials of this merger. US shareholders would be extremely ups
227 milemaster : My personal experience with US staff has been typically a positive one, especially during irregular ops. The domestic in-flight product is not great
228 BarryH : And, ironically, that's all that matters. Assigning a value to AA that US shareholders think is equitable and putting a value on US that AA stakehold
229 HPRamper : I would say most US employees have quite neutral feelings toward Parker. Most, if any, animosity within US is between equivalent work groups.
230 D L X : Actually, US Airways' stock has risen because its earnings have skyrocketed. Consider this: US's stock trades at 3.6 times earnings. Delta, on the ot
231 EricR : Neither one when you consider that the S&P 500 trades at about 15 times earnings. However, DL's PE premium over US is warranted. DL is positioned
232 D L X : The S&P includes a lot of tech companies, which trade for well over the P/E ratios of non-tech companies. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
233 EaglePower83 : I would agree. With my last minute travel to SJU from BDL last week, my US experience was rather positive. We were late leaving BDL due to arrival "b
234 etops1 : It was def not the Pilot making the announcement about the credit card . It was most likely a male FA .
235 EaglePower83 : Unless I dozed off for 2 seconds, the CC msg was immediately followed after "this is the captain" and some aeronautical information, by the same voic
236 phxa340 : [quote=D L X,reply=237][/ They are entirely way more leveraged than DL. Outstanding debt for US is still relatively high compared to its peers. Also t
237 BarryH : Their earnings have skyrocketed because of artificially low labor costs due to the unions not being able to get their act together to get an industry
238 D L X : 1) I don't know if that's true or not. Do you have a source showing that US workers get paid less than their counterparts at DAL or UA? 2) That reall
239 silentbob : Stock prices are not based on rational numbers anymore. Look at what has happened to apple in the last year or so for definitive proof of that. 1. ye
240 AAplat4life : I think that, if Parker gets control, a lot of the AA management team below the executive level would stay. AA has a lot more going on that US--plann
241 AAIL86 : Interesting. Would it be fair to say that AA employees like him more then US employees at the moment?
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