fiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 288 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10594 times:
This has been discussed before, at some length, but I think the consensus was that the ME link will enhance their ability to send people on to their favored destination.
Singapore will still be linked via codeshare partners.
The aviation industry being what it is, is moving more to alliances, so that you can still get some revenue, rather then none.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3074 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10467 times:
Quoting United Airline (Thread starter): Will HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR as well as AKL-LAX resume some day? Seems that Qantas has downsized quite a bit.
In the past, these routes carried a lot of traffic that previously connected in London. MEL-HKG for example was replacing BA's old SIN-MEL-LHR flight, giving PAX another option and departure time. I took that flight plenty of times because I liked its late night departure, and in J sat next to people going to Paris, Madrid etc. The very last time I took it I too was headed to spain. However the gulf carriers now allow you to go so much deeper into europe than before, and also give me that late departure time I wanted. It's just not competitive the way it was once to force everybody to stop at LHR like it or not.
I can't see the BKK/HKG LHR flights back in a hurry, if anything they'd probably be replaced with more flights to DXB or an onward flight from DXB, say to some place where EK can't get more traffic rights etc. I'd also expect more Australia-DXB flights to come online in the future. the UAE side of bilateral traffic rights is closed to maxed out, but the Australian side has heaps of room to grow. If you were to see a new flight to LHR via somewhere else you'd have a better chance of India, with significant growth in that market. The only thing is last time I checked Indians generally didn't have the highest opinions of Australians so they may not be too keen on an Aussie version of what 'service' should look like.
Historically it is very sad, since QF and partner IA/BOAC/BA have served the route in some form or other since 1934, BUT we must be realistic these days and EK and the DXB hub is much better positioned for QF needs today.
theobcman From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9242 times:
Can I just clarify : PAX wishing to fly SYD-LHR will be routed to DXB on QF metal (A388 ?) and then transferred to EK metal for DXB-LHR ? is that correct ?
vaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8871 times:
Quoting United Airline (Thread starter): Will HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR as well as AKL-LAX resume some day? Seems that Qantas has downsized quite a bit.
First 2 very unlikely with the EK partnership. Maybe they will resume AKL-LAX if there is sufficient demand, could be a good fit for the 787s.
Quoting United Airline (Thread starter): With the new Dubai deal, will ALL LHR flights go through DXB? Any via Singapore still?
All eventually through DXB.
Quoting United Airline (Thread starter): FRA will be gone right? Sad to see LHR being the ONLY European destination they have. They had CDG, FCO etc.
I thin it's just too expensive to fly these very long routes to multiple ports and that's why the flights to CDG, FCO and soon FRA have been/will be dropped (most airlines won't drop profitable routes). The only feasible method of such long haul flying from Australia to Europe is via hubs.
flylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8379 times:
Quoting vaus77w (Reply 8): I thin it's just too expensive to fly these very long routes to multiple ports and that's why the flights to CDG, FCO and soon FRA have been/will be dropped (most airlines won't drop profitable routes). The only feasible method of such long haul flying from Australia to Europe is via hubs.
It has been stated in the past that there is sufficient traffic for a dedicated flight to CDG, but the bilateral agreements stand in the way, only allowing 3 x weekly flights.
It's a shame, I would love to see QF operating a flight to CDG.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7343 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8195 times:
Quoting theobcman (Reply 6): Can I just clarify : PAX wishing to fly SYD-LHR will be routed to DXB on QF metal (A388 ?) and then transferred to EK metal for DXB-LHR ? is that correct ?
Wrong, Qantas is still flying two A380's to LHR arriving at the same time they used to arrive when Singapore was the stop. Qantas passengers will fly from Dubai to othe European destinations on Emirates planes.
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2373 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7219 times:
They still do arrive from SIN, DXB launches in the spring. Bear in mind they had four flights a day until recently, QANTAS in London is only going one way IMHO. I suspect pride may mean a single daily QF A388 is used going forward but the stop in DXB favours EK more than QF.
CiC From Germany, joined Jun 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6104 times:
In my opinion is the decision for QF to drop FRA a mistake - EK is fighting hardly to get an approval for a fifth or even more German destinations, and now they have a chance-
they could use the traffic rights of QF to operate 4 daily or more to FRA, and they can drop FRA in favor of another 4th destination... or maybe the rights of QF would allow to fly to another destination than FRA, I don't know...
Currently QF has 2 A380's to LHR stopping in Singapore, at the end of March when the Emirates deal starts those two flights will stop in Dubai. BA and Qantas are stopping their UK to Australia JV which has been around for 15 years because the Middle East ha 3 airlines which 20 years ago didn't exist. Qatar, Etihad and Emirates have changed everything from the Atlantic to the pacific.
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1965 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4612 times:
Quoting United Airline (Reply 13): Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4):
Well you can blame the French of them dumping CDG.
Why?
The Australia-France bilateral limited QF to three flights per week if I recall. QF really wanted to be able to operate a daily flight, like it does with FRA, to be more competitive against AF and SQ.
This is potentially where the deal with EK could pay-off in a few years, once QF starts taking 787s for longhaul itself, because the theory is that it could look at exploiting fifth freedom rights to Europe via DXB to help EK gain access to markets it's currently restricted in. This was why there was some surprise amonst some ANet members when it was announced that FRA would end rather than be switched to operate via DXB too.
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4433 times:
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 16): This is potentially where the deal with EK could pay-off in a few years, once QF starts taking 787s for longhaul itself, because the theory is that it could look at exploiting fifth freedom rights to Europe via DXB to help EK gain access to markets it's currently restricted in. This was why there was some surprise amonst some ANet members when it was announced that FRA would end rather than be switched to operate via DXB too.
More 788 will change the world drivel !
The QF 788 is for South East Asia it won't be coming to Europe imo !
Qantas has not downsized at all; they have slowed their expansion and moved assets to different markets. Within the last month they took on one new A330 and will add more in the future. Next year 8 x 738-838s will be added to the fleet. 787-9s will begin being added next year, initially allocated to Jetstar but later Qantas will begin to get them as well.
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3530 times:
Quoting TempestDriver (Reply 20): 787-9s will begin being added next year, initially allocated to Jetstar but later Qantas will begin to get them as well
Quoting TempestDriver (Reply 20): 787-9s will begin being added next year, initially allocated to Jetstar but later Qantas will begin to get them as well
Don't think so the 789 test plane is even under construction yet !
At the current rate the A359 will be airborne and under test and ready for delivery before the 789 !
Anyway Qantas has canx/deferred their 789 order indefinitely.
Jetstar are getting the 15 788s for South East Asia as previously stated.
QF International have without doubt certainly downsized.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2980 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3212 times:
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4): QF can serve its customers to Europe better using EK out of DXB then it can from SIN
That's half-correct.
Emirates offers a better route network at both ends than Qantas previously did, granted.
But Singapore would have been a much more economical transit point due to:
1) The sector length is half as long from Sydney, meaning that the fuel burn is less than 50% of what it is to Dubai, where the airline has to carry more fuel for the near-ULH sector.
2) Singapore has a far larger premium travel sector to London than Dubai does, in fact I'm not even sure that Qantas has UAE-UK traffic rights.
There are benefits to the new EK partnership. But there are also the costs associated with operating a 12,000 km sector.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3074 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2999 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 23): Singapore has a far larger premium travel sector to London than Dubai does, in fact I'm not even sure that Qantas has UAE-UK traffic rights.
They do, basically DXB grants just about everybody full 5th freedom and beyond rights as part of the negotiations. It was done that way very early in the piece before anybody had any idea what they had envisioned EK to become.
As far as the costs are concerned though, I guess the is also the revenue part. QF would get a larger chuck of the pie too, for operating the longer flight surely?
25 gemuser: Half Right, as far as you go! BUT SYD-DXB is almost the same distance as SIN-LHR, 6500nm v 5879nm and SYD-SIN is almost the same distance DXB-LHR, 33
26 qf002: You must be thinking of QF in the alternate universe where there was no GFC and the company had never been privatised... The A332 taken a few weeks a
27 FlyCaledonian: Did I say the 788s? I'm fully aware as to where the 788s are going. I was talking in a few years time, when QF International could be in a position t
28 rutankrd: Still unsubstantiated drivel ! The reality for QF and the Jetstar group is South East Asia (Japan/China/Korea and Vietnam) - that's where they will m
29 FlyCaledonian: At present yes. But if bilaterals permit, and EK is restricted in certain markets, QF could operate additional flights beyond DXB, this is potentiall
30 koruman: How do you work that out? Japan's economy has been stagnant for years, and Jetstar is reduced to low-yield inbound package tourism from Japan. Jetsta
31 flylonghaul: What are the possibilities that the agreement with France will change to allow the additional flights? Does anybody know if this is even remotely like
32 rutankrd: UK unlimited EK access , France expanding on EK (and as pointed out QF are limited by the France/Australia bilateral) , Amsterdam EK looking at going
33 rutankrd: Note the reference to Boxes - Very important revenue stream on all wide body routes !
34 Lufthansa: Yes, it's a little sad, but it's now largely true. Australia's top 3 trading partners are Japan, China and then the USA. the UK still makes the list
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