Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
MU To Extend YVR Service To JFK  
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8586 times:

From the official Weibo (the chinese vision of Twitter) of MU, they plan to extend their PVG-YVR service to JFK using 332. And they are actively applying for 5th Freedom on the YVR-JFK route. Passengers won't need a Canadian Visa to transfer at YVR. But personally I really doubt whether they can get the traffic rights.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8578 times:

Is this in addition to the existing non-stop PVG-JFK?

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2149 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8489 times:

Sounds like they are pulling a move a la CX attempting to tap into the purported lucrative YVR-JFK/NYC sector.


next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinerampbro From Canada, joined Nov 2012, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8392 times:

Quoting justinlee (Thread starter):
But personally I really doubt whether they can get the traffic rights

If the agreement to sell Nexen to CNOOC is any indication, they probably will.

Didn't Cathay cut one of the legs YVR-JFK recently?


User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8250 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 1):
Is this in addition to the existing non-stop PVG-JFK?

I think so. There is no sign they will drop the non-stop PVG-JFK.


User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8215 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 2):
Sounds like they are pulling a move a la CX attempting to tap into the purported lucrative YVR-JFK/NYC sector.

why does Cathay still fly YVR to JFK ? all its JFK flights should be nonstop to Hong Kong.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7114 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

This is an odd addition....I'm doubting they'll get 5th freedom though


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7811 times:

cx still flies it because the route is very profitable

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7558 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
This is an odd addition....I'm doubting they'll get 5th freedom though

Well, without 5th freedom rights, there is no point for this new service. MU already operates daily from PVG to JFK using an A346 and I am sure it could apply for additional nonstop frequencies.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCPA62 From Canada, joined Jan 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
why does Cathay still fly YVR to JFK ? all its JFK flights should be nonstop to Hong Kong.



It is a money maker for CX! they do very well on this route both in terms of pax yield and cargo


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7615 times:

I flew HKG-YVR-JFK last year and there was a really good load of pax who got on the flight in YVR and many in business and one or two in first as a matter of fact. So I would think if it wasn't making money for CX, they would have dropped it by now as this has been operating for a very long time

User currently offlinedc1030cf From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7535 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I flew business on both CX888 / CX889 in Oct. The new business seat and inflight service were superb, Since I started and ended my trip at SEA, I had to take a Dash-8 between SEA/YVR/SEA. It was worth the extra hours. My other choices would be on either AA or AS. Neither comes close to what Cathay has to offer. BTW both CX888/CX889 had only two or three seats left in business. I will keep flying Cathay if I have to go New York or DC in the future.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 9):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
why does Cathay still fly YVR to JFK ? all its JFK flights should be nonstop to Hong Kong.


It is a money maker for CX! they do very well on this route both in terms of pax yield and cargo

If they operated it as a YVR turnaround there may not be enough demand year round for 2 daily HKG-YVR 77Ws, along with AC's daily 77W. By extending it to JFK they probably pick up enough additional traffic to make the 2nd YVR flight economic. It also gives YVR-HKG the option of an overnight westbound departure in addition to the daytime CX (and AC) flights.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

I hope they do get awarded the fifth-freedom rights! Will be a nice addition to complement the DL flight that starts up in June. Any idea what the timings will be? I assume the YVR timings won't change, so can anybody tell me what they are?

User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7182 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
If they operated it as a YVR turnaround there may not be enough demand year round for 2 daily HKG-YVR 77Ws, along with AC's daily 77W. By extending it to JFK they probably pick up enough additional traffic to make the 2nd YVR flight economic. It also gives YVR-HKG the option of an overnight westbound departure in addition to the daytime CX (and AC) flights.

The demand on YVR-NYC route certainly is there. Currently, there is only AC to EWR and CX to JFK fly non-stop.
I am curious why would CX not make an push for their 2nd daily YVR service to continue to JFK as well. If Canada is that restrictive on 5th freedom rights, I don't see how MU will get it. Who knows though.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
there may not be enough demand year round for 2 daily HKG-YVR 77Ws, along with AC's daily 77W.

AC traffic is O&D - there is no strong Star presence in HKG to feed AC flight. For CX flights, there is vast Asia network beyond HK. So market segments do not completely overlap.


User currently offlinebartonsayswhat From Canada, joined Oct 2007, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7126 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 14):
AC to EWR

And that flight is the worst.
14:45 departure with a 23:50 arrival, it's well after midnight before you can get into Manhattan. You're way better of going to YYZ than on that flight. Hopefully this MU flight will be properly timed.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
hope they do get awarded the fifth-freedom rights

I believe the Canada-China bilateral gives Chinese carriers 5th freedom rights to 2 points of their choice beyond Canada. If that's correct, then it's a question of whether the U.S.-China bilateral permits the 5th freedom rights. I believe there's a similar provision in that bilateral, but the U.S.-China bilateral also has frequency restrictions so would depend on whether the additional flights to JFK fit within the current frequency limits.


User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
I believe the Canada-China bilateral gives Chinese carriers 5th freedom rights to 2 points of their choice beyond Canada.

It says that AC will also have the same kind of 5th freedom if MU uses YVR-JFK traffic right. Let's see what will they do  
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
but the U.S.-China bilateral also has frequency restrictions so would depend on whether the additional flights to JFK fit within the current frequency limits.

Chinese companies haven't used up all the frequency on US-China bilateral so this will not be a problem.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6972 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 14):
Currently, there is only AC to EWR and CX to JFK fly non-stop.

DL are starting JFK - YVR next year too, so things will begin to get a bit crowded.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineCPA62 From Canada, joined Jan 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6828 times:

I am surprised it is JFK is the chosen route. There had been talk MU wanting YVR-BOS

User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 19):
There had been talk MU wanting YVR-BOS

And what kind of traffic is there between Vancouver and Boston?


User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18):
DL are starting JFK - YVR next year too, so things will begin to get a bit crowded.

I think DL 737 is a good addition to existing capacity in the market, though apparently DL product will probably be not competitive with that of even MU, let alone CX. Though, SEA nearby, a city of size similar to Vancouver, gets like 3x daily DL and 3x daily UA to EWR, plus B6 and AS services - overall at least 10x daily 737-757, which is much more capacity than 77W+332+738+319, which we will get if MU gets approved and decides to start the service.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1604 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 21):
I think DL 737 is a good addition to existing capacity in the market, though apparently DL product will probably be not competitive with that of even MU, let alone CX. Though, SEA nearby, a city of size similar to Vancouver, gets like 3x daily DL and 3x daily UA to EWR, plus B6 and AS services - overall at least 10x daily 737-757, which is much more capacity than 77W+332+738+319, which we will get if MU gets approved and decides to start the service.

The Seattle area is significantly larger than the Vancouver area, not to mention that JFK-SEA as a domestic market is noticeably larger than the international JFK-YVR market.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

On a side note, MU is to start PVG-SFO service this coming April and is showing on GDS but not bookable on MU's website. Are they still planning the service?


John@SFO
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 23):
On a side note, MU is to start PVG-SFO service this coming April and is showing on GDS but not bookable on MU's website. Are they still planning the service?

MU want to use 332 to fly this route but it will need ETOPS 180. MU is still working on it.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1631 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

I always felt that this was a route that NZ should take up - extending its AKL-YVR route to JFK. Am I correct in thinking that no Canadian airline flies it, just CX?


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 14):
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
there may not be enough demand year round for 2 daily HKG-YVR 77Ws, along with AC's daily 77W.

AC traffic is O&D - there is no strong Star presence in HKG to feed AC flight. For CX flights, there is vast Asia network beyond HK. So market segments do not completely overlap.

Airlines don't only interline with their alliance partners. I would bet that AC has many connections to/from CX (and Dragonair) at HKG every day, and also carries many CX connecting passengers within Canada.

For example, I believe CDG tried to force AC to move to T1 a few years ago (where virtually all other Star Alliance carriers are, on the opposite side of the airport), but AC refused to move from T2 since they have many connections to/from AF and thus wanted to stay close to AF.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 25):
Am I correct in thinking that no Canadian airline flies it, just CX?

Correct, AC fly to EWR.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
SU JFK-SVO Flight Diverted To KEF Due To Threat posted Thu Aug 16 2012 00:10:36 by planenutz
Sichuan Airlines Service To YVR To Begin In June posted Fri May 18 2012 12:18:34 by PeterJ
DL Expands @ JFK, DL Ups LAX To 8 Daily, SFO To 6 posted Mon Nov 14 2011 06:44:17 by g500
DL Going To Start JFK To PVG,PEK Or HKG? posted Tue Oct 18 2011 06:21:40 by staralliance85
AA Applies To Delay JFK-HND Startup posted Mon Dec 20 2010 12:45:20 by LAXintl
DL To Launch JFK/BOS-CDG posted Fri Nov 19 2010 11:43:06 by HVNandrew
NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ posted Tue Nov 9 2010 18:23:33 by STT757
AA To Launch JFK-BNA posted Fri Nov 5 2010 11:21:42 by MAH4546
AA/BA To Start JFK-LHR Shuttle In April posted Wed Oct 6 2010 14:27:28 by MAH4546
B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK posted Wed Sep 8 2010 05:39:20 by scflyboy