usflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1809 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10179 times:
I am generally pretty skeptical about VX but I actually think VX will do pretty well out of EWR. If any airport ever needed fare relief it is EWR! Thanks to UA's pricing power, fares are often 2-3x higher out of EWR compared to JFK or LGA.
dbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 795 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10039 times:
Are they getting more aircraft for this, or decreasing frequencies on other routes? I thought they were only getting one additional aircraft between now and 2015..and I'm sure they'll need more than one aircraft to fly 6 transcons per day.
They aren't getting airplanes so something else is going away. I wonder if that is where the slots come from. Perhaps they are closing IAD and did some sort of deal with UA? Something has to be closing.
The other interesting part is that assuming they bought these slots from somewhere, it means they must have gotten a new infusion of cash...
KLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9978 times:
This is great! I know its grueling if you live in Jersey to drive all the way to JFK just to fly Virgin America. This will be a great way for the NJ passengers to get a good experience. I would expect a lot of business travel with TOUGH competition. We'll see...
airliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 887 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9828 times:
Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 8): I would expect a lot of business travel with TOUGH competition.
Most businesses in NY that are already established have their own carrier unless the carrier doesn't fly somewhere. New Yorkers take loyalty very seriously, not only airlines but look at the Yankees. I am not saying they won't get business travelers, I am just saying don't expect any amazing number.
boilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9512 times:
I'm not so sure that UA's service to EWR from LAX & SFO is O&D. I imagine a lot of customers are connecting to int'l itineraries. Whenever I fly into NYC, I prefer JFK P.S. service if it was pure O&D. But when you go on to someplace in Europe you don't have a choice (alas) and you are in a regular service flight to EWR.
That said I'm sure UA will protect this with low fares, some new 739s that are coming in in 2013 and even more service. Hopefully a double EQM offer or two...
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4576 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9464 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 14): Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
They are a force to be reckoned with especially considering the rather decent fares they garner in the market compared to peers.
and yet the are still burning money.
The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are still kicking even after losing as much as they have makes them all the more formidable.
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1808 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8745 times:
As much as I love UA/CO, I am glad to see more competition in any airline's fortress hub. It increases choice and that's not a bad thing.
3x a day will make a dent. Let's see how UA responds that'll be real interesting. I think it was in the 2000s or late 1990's another smaller airline (don't remember which one--the memory is vague) decided to enter the EWR-SFO market. CO really retaliated heavily and really crushed them. Maybe someone recalls who this competitor was.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8630 times:
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 19): I think it was in the 2000s or late 1990's another smaller airline (don't remember which one--the memory is vague) decided to enter the EWR-SFO market. CO really retaliated heavily and really crushed them. Maybe someone recalls who this competitor was.
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1808 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7931 times:
Yes, that is right. I knew it was an airline starting with "A." CO dumped all sorts of capacity and drove them out. Now we're dealing with the resources of the combined entity. Who know maybe UA won't respond that hard.
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2618 posts, RR: 31 Reply 23, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7756 times:
I am very happy to see VX finally adding service to EWR. They have been wanting to do so for years, but complained that they could not get commercially viable slots. Congrats to them for this long-awaited accomplishment! However, it does raise some questions:
- Gate space came from AA. However, where did the scarce EWR slots come from? The only equivalent assets that VX could trade to other airlines would be their JFK slots (I don't think the beyond-perimeter DCA slot is transferable), and I doubt VX would want to give any of those up when they finally seem to be getting good pricing power and yields on their JFK routes.
- How does VX, which has slashed near term growth by capping the fleet for several years, come up with the aircraft capacity to offer this service? In the past, they cut underperforming routes within a year. If that is the case, then ORD and Mexico should be safe, while PHL and PDX should be worried right now. They could also cut frequency across the board.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
Philly65 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7599 times:
Looks like PHL is safe although they did drop one round trip on the LAX route...now at 2x's/day. I bet it will be frequency adjustments on other routes especially Mexico and/or Florida. Didn't they announce a few frequency cuts on other routes? That is probably funding the aircraft requirements for the EWR service.
25 usairways85: Yes I know the EWR-SFO/LAX market is much different than PHL-SFO/LAX but if US/UA can run VX out of PHL then UA better be able to run VX out of EWR.
26 slcdeltarumd11: I agree 100%. I am often skpetical of VX also but I really could see them do well out of EWR. Fares are often so high on these two routes. Very simil
27 ScottB: The schedule looks like it takes the better part of four aircraft since there look to be some lengthy turns at EWR. The evening arrival at 2129 from
28 usairways85: True, though so many people in the NYC area pay outright for F and aren't necessarily die hard loyalists. In the late summer/Fall I was on EWR-LAX on
29 slcdeltarumd11: I wonder if we see united try to up its game and at least put PTV only aircraft on those routes. A united 757-300 is so inferior to virgin america its
30 as739x: Been to SFO lately? They have a minimum of 3 or 4 planes always sitting around during the day. This actually should help them get aircraft up moving
31 OOer: ...and then people wonder why they have yet to post a profitable quarter. Hopefully they'll run out of money next year and we can put them out of the
32 slcdeltarumd11: That is a little over 5 cents a mile ($0.058 for SFO) for a brand new plane with one of the best inflight experiences out there. There is no way that
33 jetMarc: Keep in mind "starting fares" usually only mean two or three seats and probably not even for all flights... its just a marketing gimic, not an entire
34 SANFan: It is interesting to look at a turn-schedule. The 2 "normal" (afternoon) turns at EWR are both :55 on the ground. But the other 4 turns are RONs (~10
35 VCy: Thank God for Virgin America & America has a quality carrier
36 tommy767: Well this is good for me since it means FARE REDUCTIONS on these routes. It's f-ing ridic that UA is charging $697 for a one way flight to LAX from EW
37 sqsfo: I have been on many UA flights and a few( 7 in total) on VX. The product offering and service onboard VX was FAR FAR FAR more superior. UA's tired and
38 NWADTWE16: Great news! and this will be a huge hit..lots of Northern Jersey/NYC catchment that doesnt want JFK that can now choose something other than UA...
39 flyby519: Any updates on this? Inquiring minds would like to know
40 PHLwok: These times for the first flight each day really aren't that good. First arrival westbound doesn't even allow for a business lunch. The eastbound red
41 Deltal1011man: All it shows is someone(or people) are stupid enough to keeping letting VX burn money. and FWIW losing money doesn't make them more formidable. This
42 STT757: The slots are indeed coming from AA, as are the gates. It's mentioned in the Port Authority Press release: Also: http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/pre
43 SANFan: Can someone clarify if the EWR slots are time-specific? Maybe this would explain the strange times and long turns of some of the VX flights... bb
44 Flytravel: EWR attracts a greater catchment including more high yield and more destination traffic. I wonder if this will just cannibalize VX's own PHL service,
45 skycub: So... they have yet to earn a profit flying trans-cons from LAX and SFO to major east coast cities.... so what do they do? Add yet more trans-cons fro