Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!  
User currently offlineaerolover27 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21901 times:

read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways. This development comes from the recent change in rules frm indian govt, where foreign airlines can purchase stakes upto 49% in domestic carriers. but is this really going to get back kingfisher and what would be the strategy is unknown.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTriple7X From Singapore, joined Dec 2012, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21762 times:

Will Etihad saves Kingfisher from the debt hole? I certainly hope they will as I still had not have a chance to experience the 'Kingfisher Experience' before it shut down....


1x Airbus A300B4-600R, 2x Airbus A330-300, 2x Boeing B777-300/-300ER, 4x Boeing 777-200/-200ER, 7x Airbus A320-200
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21675 times:

Interesting to see EY are attempting to save a OW carrier (not officially a member), bought a stake in AB and signed an agreement with KL/AF/AB/GA... Is EY establishing its own alliance...?

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21649 times:

Quoting aerolover27 (Thread starter):
read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways. This development comes from the recent change in rules frm indian govt, where foreign airlines can purchase stakes upto 49% in domestic carriers. but is this really going to get back kingfisher and what would be the strategy is unknown.

Are you sure? EY is reported to be intersted into buying a stake in 9W, thus buying into IT seems unlikely to me.


User currently offlineaerolover27 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21549 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):

link to this: http://www.mydigitalfc.com/companies...rways-set-buy-kingfisher-stake-672


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21400 times:

I smell a red herring and an attempt to put off the 9W stake sale, KFA's stock saw a significant upside today though...


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21328 times:

I can't really see why anyone would want a stake in Kingfisher. What would they gain? An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

User currently offlineTriple7X From Singapore, joined Dec 2012, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21242 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):

I agree with you. As much as I like to see Kingfisher back in its glory days, I felt that the amount of debt that Kingfisher had will certainly keep buyers/inventors away...



1x Airbus A300B4-600R, 2x Airbus A330-300, 2x Boeing B777-300/-300ER, 4x Boeing 777-200/-200ER, 7x Airbus A320-200
User currently offlineUnflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 480 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21196 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):
An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

If the link quoted in post #4 is correct about price for the 49% stake (30 billon rupees) and debt (2.5 billion rupees) I'd have to assume that there are assets worth more than Kingfishers debt. Do they own their fleet?


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21111 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):
I can't really see why anyone would want a stake in Kingfisher. What would they gain? An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

According to the report mentioned in mydigitalfc.com above, the offer is about US$555 million at today's exchange rate for 48% of the shares. Correct me if I am wrong but IIRC all or nearly all KF aircraft are leased. And apart from owing money to banks KF has "trade" creditors - unpaid fuel, airport fees etc. Seems like a lot to pay for a concern that is not going anywhere (a grounded airline with few or no airliners). How much is international status worth to EY?


User currently offlineaerolover27 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21069 times:

not sure if they still have their own fleet as most of the aircrafts are taken over by indian airports due to nonpayment of airport taxes/parking charges and other services.
Etihad might have a strategy here to rule the domestic market by buying stakes in jet/KF as i heard emirates were trying hard to gain more airspace in the indian territory....


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18731 times:

This story has no legs. KFA has now denied that EY is interested. Why would EY be interested in KFA when it is going to buy 24% of Jet Airways. This is just a story by KFA to extend the Dec 31st deadline for license expiry.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18733 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting aerolover27 (Thread starter):

read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways.

Planning is different than "saves Kingfisher." Please change title.

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
Are you sure? EY is reported to be intersted into buying a stake in 9W, thus buying into IT seems unlikely to me.

EY is negotiating with both. I personally think it is a ploy to have 9W cut their price.

Quoting aerolover27 (Reply 10):
Etihad might have a strategy here to rule the domestic market by buying stakes in jet/KF as i heard emirates were trying hard to gain more airspace in the indian territory....

Its also for feed to AUH.

Quoting art (Reply 9):
Seems like a lot to pay for a concern that is not going anywhere (a grounded airline with few or no airliners). How much is international status worth to EY?

If EY buys IT, it will be throwing good money after bad.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
I'd have to assume that there are assets worth more than Kingfishers debt.

   The only 'asset' is access to the Indian market. Its value?

I'm willing to bet a beer, to be collected somewhere near LAX, that IT folds. Any takers?


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18247 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
I'm willing to bet a beer, to be collected somewhere near LAX, that IT folds. Any takers?

Sorry to disappoint you but you won't be getting a beer from me (Kingfisher or otherwise.)  


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18121 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
Do they own their fleet?

As I understand it, almost their entire fleet was leased and the lessors have recovered all those planes.

Per Wikipedia, the current fleet is one A319CJ, one 727BBJ, two A320s and three ATR-72s.


User currently offlinegauravpai From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 17953 times:

well according to sources the deal is all but confirmed and lets hope for the aviation sector IT can be revived.

here is an article link

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...-kingfisher-airlines-report-314578

godspeed

cheers
GAURAV PAI


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 17782 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 15):
well according to sources the deal is all but confirmed and lets hope for the aviation sector IT can be revived.

That same website is now reporting that Kingfisher have issued a statement to an Indian stock exchange (didn't say of it was the NSE or BSE) that they were only in early negotiations "with a number of airlines" and that no deal is ready.

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...ort-of-stake-sale-to-etihad-314594


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7625 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 17572 times:

Because EY wants a fast track to throwing money away faster?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 17190 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
Because EY wants a fast track to throwing money away faster?

I'd hazard a guess it would be to give them a strong(er) presence in the domestic Indian market (though either 9W or IT)?


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16167 times:

Either the have gotten the creditors (incl banks and lessors) to agree to a 50-75% haircut on their dues, or they have more money than brains. Or it could just be Mallya blowing smoke. I suspect the latter.

User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9512 times:

If $360m buys you 49% of Virgin Atlantic then why is 48% of bankrupt Kingfisher worth $555m???


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlinetioloko100 From Australia, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9045 times:

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 20):
If $360m buys you 49% of Virgin Atlantic then why is 48% of bankrupt Kingfisher worth $555m???

I guess Kingfisher has more potentials and Etihad can see that.


User currently offlineaerolover27 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8715 times:

I guess its more to do with emerging into the indian market than kingfisher airlines itself. Vijay mallya, the owner who also owns a F1 team is good in talking about unexisting money and assets. I agree buying stakes in jet would do the same but etihad can never own it in total, but with kingfisher they might plan to buy more stakes later on..

User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

Guys -- relax, there is no deal. This is just Indian media reporting on rumour and speculation, possibly due to tactical leaks by VJM himself to buy himself more time from his creditors. The implied valuation is ludicrous especially for a bankrupt airline that has almost $2Bn in debt. And KF themselves have denied it officially, as their intention was just to start an unofficial rumour.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8172 times:

What is etihad thinking.....


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8090 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
That same website is now reporting that Kingfisher have issued a statement to an Indian stock exchange (didn't say of it was the NSE or BSE) that they were only in early negotiations "with a number of airlines" and that no deal is ready.

Mods, please change the title. This was always a rumor and a.net tradition has the title ending in a ? for a rumor.
e.g., Etihad to save Kingfisher from shutting?

Quoting sankaps (Reply 23):
The implied valuation is ludicrous especially for a bankrupt airline that has almost $2Bn in debt. And KF themselves have denied it officially, as their intention was just to start an unofficial rumour.

I see no business case for IT.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1361 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7575 times:

When the depth of your pockets is governed by extracting hydrocarbons from the ground; when a large part of your traffic is to/from the sub-continent; when the Indian authorities are best persuaded to grant you access if you throw money at them; when an ailing Indian carrier is in dire need of a financial partner with deep pockets, there might very well be a business case for EY to throw money at IT. Not so much to save the airline, but to buy their way into the Indian market. I doubt EY is interested in domestic feed, they're probably after access to more gateways in India served on their own metal directly from Ab Dab.

In short, I think EY is aiming to become the second national carrier of India. The primary being EK  



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7630 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
EY is negotiating with both. I personally think it is a ploy to have 9W cut their price.

  

I concur.

That said, I doubt it would be particularly effective - 9W management isn't that stupid.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 24):
What is etihad thinking.....

Maybe a good distressed asset investment. It really depends on what price EY can get.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2015 posts, RR: 24
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

It's crazy. But I wonder if it could work. KF becomes EY's India regional carrier. They go all narrow body and are committed to domestic flying and feeding EY.

Long shot. But not the craziest idea. Imagine all the destinations they'd serve.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7357 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 27):
9W management isn't that stupid.

We'll see.  

Ok, kidding aside, I agree with you.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 29):
Long shot. But not the craziest idea. Imagine all the destinations they'd serve.

But for potentially several BILLION in liability? Even oil nations need an expected ROI.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6967 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

oh god....please let it die....IT has more lives than a cat


Cheers;
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5979 times:

Quoting justinlee (Reply 28):

Maybe a good distressed asset investment. It really depends on what price EY can get.

With the Accumulated losses.....still makes sense to NOT invest in KF.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days ago) and read 5148 times:

Any update on possible investment in Kingfisher or on the airline's operating status? Is Kingfisher in a position to take to the air again in January?

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

Quoting art (Reply 33):
Is Kingfisher in a position to take to the air again in January?

not a chance.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
But for potentially several BILLION in liability? Even oil nations need an expected ROI.

And I think there may very well be. The question is really what kind of timeline are EY willing to live with...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3848 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Today's Financial Times sheds a bit of light.

Etihad was in talks with Kingfisher and Jet over an investment in one of the two carriers. When Kingfisher had its license suspended in October, Etihad decided to focus exclusively on Jet.

Besides the obvious, the other reason Jet is interested in selling a share to Etihad is to comply with a new Indian stock market regulator requirement that listed companies not have more than 75% of their shares held by a single shareholder. Currently, Jet's largest shareholder owns 80% of the shares.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/54076...be/Transport/product#axzz2GzRG9VJ5
(registration required)



I've got $h*t to do
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Etihad Will Start New Flights To AMS? posted Tue Nov 27 2012 11:36:25 by vlad1971
Jet Airways In Talks With Etihad - Stake Sale posted Sun Nov 25 2012 22:34:14 by AF185
Kingfisher Still Sinking In Debt posted Fri Nov 23 2012 08:12:07 by tioloko100
Etihad To Add More USA Destinations (?) posted Thu Nov 15 2012 11:39:49 by globalflyer
Tcas RA Saves The Day Over Colombia posted Mon Nov 5 2012 18:10:53 by Gonzalo
Kingfisher Airlines To Lose Aviation License posted Fri Oct 19 2012 20:19:00 by gauravpai
Garuda - Etihad To Form Partnership posted Wed Oct 17 2012 17:35:30 by LAXintl
Kingfisher Airlines Owner Could Face Arrest! posted Sun Oct 14 2012 15:49:10 by adityashankar
Kingfisher Could Stop Flying Oct 20 posted Mon Oct 8 2012 05:31:07 by gonzalo
AF/KLM And ETIHAD/Air Berlin Parnership Announced posted Mon Oct 8 2012 03:12:43 by factsonly