Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United Express Future Plans?  
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8538 times:

On a recent trip I had the chance to fly United Express on the outbound leg (an E145) and Delta Connection on the home bound leg (CR9). I was struck by the significant differences in the United and Delta products, and while I recognize that Delta's product is much more mature following the Northwest merger I wondered what UA's plans are for its Express product going forward.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

I would guess the plan is to sign the pilot contract with the new scope clause and start flying more 70 seaters.

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8427 times:

Should the pilot contract pass, the UAX fleet will become pretty much identical to the DL connection fleet though they'll be a few years behind. The scope in the contract is partly based on UA purchasing a new small mainline aircraft much like DL with the 717s. As of right now, in the long run assuming the contract passes and conditions are met, DL and UA will both have a hard cap of 450 regional aircraft with 325 of those allowed to be 51-76 seats.


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8414 times:

So I would imagine the logical step after that is to have a similar F/Y+/Y onboard product with the new fleet?

User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

Quoting Catiii (Thread starter):
I was struck by the significant differences in the United and Delta products,

Can you expand on the differences you experienced? I have not been on a DL Connection in a long time. Did it have Economy Comfort? Did the UAX have E+?


User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8280 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 4):

Can you expand on the differences you experienced? I have not been on a DL Connection in a long time. Did it have Economy Comfort? Did the UAX have E+?

Sure thing (I probably should have done so from the outset).

The UAX experience was onboard an E145 out of EWR to SAV. My sense at EWR is that the E145 makes up the vast majority of the UAX ops. I don't have status on UA, but I was traveling on an unrestricted fare and did also purchase an economy plus seat. I was somewhat surprised that purchasing an economy plus seat doesn't allow for boarding in one of the earlier groups I think I boarded in group 6 and was in seat 1A. The crew could have not been nicer, although the boarding process at A concourse at EWR is a bit of a mess given the configuration of the terminal. The onboard product was an all coach product, little overhead space (by the time I had boarded all the overhead space was taken and although I pink tagged my rollaboard they wanted me to also pink tag my laptop case). I know the airplanes are utilized hard but it was rundown inside. Onboard the offering was water and pretzels.

The DL experience was onboard a CR7 to LGA with an F and Y product (F has 9 seats in it). I'm Diamond on DL and upgraded to F. DL offers a predeparture beverage, and after takeoff a full complement of beverages and the snack basket. Coach has a full complement of beverages, Biscoff and peanuts.

So I guess the comparisons are this:

1. DL offers an F/Y product (and Y+ on the E170/175) allowing pax with status the ability to upgrade. UAX does not.
2. DL offers Economy Comfort pax on Delta Connection priority boarding; UAX does not for Economy Plus.
3. The DL Connection onboard beverage offering is more expansive then the UAX offering (at least in my experience).
4. DL is making a conscious effort to retire their 50 seat RJ's, while it appears on UAX the 50 seat RJ's are the bulk of the fleet.

Let me close by saying this: I'm not criticizing the decisions UA is making with their Express fleet. It's perfectly rational in my mind for them to continue with their current onboard product if they so choose. I'm merely curious if, as the merger integration matures, they have a plan for the future that is above and beyond what they're currently offering so that they can compete with a DL for example.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6042 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 5):
3. The DL Connection onboard beverage offering is more expansive then the UAX offering (at least in my experience).

Delta also offers a meal in first class if the flight qualifies. Not a snack box, a meal, which puts it much more in line with the DL mainline product----even if it IS, at minimum, a cold meal.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineRiverCityFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

In my opinion, the UAX operation is kind of at a stand still. EVERYTHING about that flying will depend on the outcome of the new TA. I'm sure UA will catch up to speed on there UAX service at some point, but right now are focusing on bigger things.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8155 times:

The UAX onboard product has really fallen behind the competition; even bankrupt American Eagle offers HOT meal service on CR7 flights between ORD and, say, AUS during meal times.
DLX does meals too.

Meanwhile, on a four-hour flight from LAX to DFW, you get..... nothing. They wanted $400 to upgrade to F, where all you get is a slightly wider seat. Hard to justify that, folks.

And as much as I like the ERJ's, they're getting REALLY shabby inside. I've been flying on them for about ten years, and at first, I was pleasantly surprised! Now, however, I board to find filth in the seats, wall panel damage, overhead PSU damage, nasty carpet, etc. And the OO CRJ's aren't much better!


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8055 times:

Well, one issue is that you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to aircraft amenities. UA's 50-seat ERJ-145s do not have first class or Economy Plus. They have priority seating, such as the bulkheads, front-rows-of-economy, and emergency exit rows, but there is not a proper Economy Plus offering. That's also the reason you were not given priority boarding in EWR--you were not actually sitting in Economy Plus.

On your return flight on DL, you were either on a CRJ-700 or -900 (you used both). These are larger aircraft that, on UA, do offer a First Class cabin and Economy Plus (on the CR7. UA does not fly the CR9).

A better comparison to UA's ERJ-145 would be DL's CRJ-200, which I flew on a couple of weeks ago. Although the service was friendly, the airplane was cramped and I think most flyers would pick an ERJ-145 over the CRJ-200 on any carrier.

As for beverage selection, I would be curious to know what DL offers that UA does not? I have flown both UAX and DLX aircraft in the past few weeks and the collection of Coca-Cola soft drinks and Minute Maid juices was almost identical.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8001 times:

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
UA's 50-seat ERJ-145s do not have first class or Economy Plus.
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
That's also the reason you were not given priority boarding in EWR--you were not actually sitting in Economy Plus.
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
They have priority seating, such as the bulkheads, front-rows-of-economy, and emergency exit rows, but there is not a proper Economy Plus offering.

Then they shouldn't sell it as Economy Plus on the website when you book an E145. Seat 1A, and the exit rows have a surcharge from $12 to $35 under the heading of Economy Plus.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
On your return flight on DL, you were either on a CRJ-700 or -900 (you used both).

Yeah, fat fingers. It was a CR7 coming back  
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
As for beverage selection, I would be curious to know what DL offers that UA does not? I have flown both UAX and DLX aircraft in the past few weeks and the collection of Coca-Cola soft drinks and Minute Maid juices was almost identica

The only option offered on the flight was water.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 9):
A better comparison to UA's ERJ-145 would be DL's CRJ-200, which I flew on a couple of weeks ago. Although the service was friendly, the airplane was cramped and I think most flyers would pick an ERJ-145 over the CRJ-200 on any carrier.

I was comparing the UAX experience at large vs. the DL experience. DL has made a concious effort to do away with their Y only Connection product. That's the comparison.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21627 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7962 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 5):
1. DL offers an F/Y product (and Y+ on the E170/175) allowing pax with status the ability to upgrade. UAX does not.

UAX does offer a F/Y+/Y product on all its aircraft larger than 50 seats (CR7 and E70).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7926 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
UAX does offer a F/Y+/Y product on all its aircraft larger than 50 seats (CR7 and E70).


Yes, the SkyWest CRJ7's that I have flown on offer F/Y+/Y, but without an ovens of course they can't serve hot meals. The SkyWest CRJ9's flying for DL I have been told offer the hot meals as they have ovens, but I've never been on board a CRJ9 so it's only by word of mouth.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
Yes, the SkyWest CRJ7's that I have flown on offer F/Y+/Y, but without an ovens of course they can't serve hot meals.

Ovens or not, UAX doesn't even serve COLD meals in F, much less hot ones.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 10):
The only option offered on the flight was water.

I intended to respond to that point in my rant on how behind UAX has fallen; that's actually NOT normal. Especially on a flight that long, UAX offers sodas for free. Why they didn't on your flight, I don't know, but would chalk up to either a catering error (hard to imagine) or a lazy FA (which I HAVE encountered).

What's irritating is the difference between UAX carriers, and their service policies: on a DAL-IAH run, if you're on ExpressJet, you get a Coke. If you're on SkyWest on the same DAL-IAH, often times the FA will say, "Due to the short nature of this flight, we're only offering water." Funny, the flight isn't any shorter on ExpressJet....


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

Now you know why they want to minimize the ERJ-145 and CRJ-200 fleet and expand the CRJ-700 and ERJ-170 (70 seater) fleet.

sCO doesn't allow 70 seater jets (due to pilot scope clause), so I imagine many of the operations at EWR are the smaller RJs.

There is priority boarding on the ExPlus 70 seaters on UAX. They get the standard meal service (free soft drinks, Buy On Board food, pretzels on flights more than 2.5 hours - last time I flew UA). The 70 seaters have same size (larger) bins on both sides of the aisle (in Y and Y+), so no problems with a laptop bag. Roller bags have to be tagged generally.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7551 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 5):
1. DL offers an F/Y product (and Y+ on the E170/175) allowing pax with status the ability to upgrade. UAX does not.

United Express and DL Connection offer very similar service levels. The only difference is the hot meals.

United Express launched F/Y+/Y regional service in this country.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 10):
Then they shouldn't sell it as Economy Plus on the website when you book an E145. Seat 1A, and the exit rows have a surcharge from $12 to $35 under the heading of Economy Plus.

...those seats offer additional legroom. What were you looking for?

Quoting Catiii (Reply 10):
The only option offered on the flight was water.

Was this flight 45 minutes or less?

If not, I'll be quite honest and not intentionally rude, but I don't believe you. All United Express flights that reach a workable altitude offer a full beverage service, and shorter flights where its not possible offer water and juice.

NS


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6815 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 5):
Onboard the offering was water and pretzels.

On EWR-SAV this is due to a bad FA, I would complain. There should be a full beverage offering, same as you get on mainline. Not sure when they get snack boxes available, I believe they are hit or miss.

I also think paying to upgrade on the 145 is a crime! 1A on the ERJ might be one of the worst seats on the plane. The only seats they should be selling as E+ are the exit row seats.


User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
What's irritating is the difference between UAX carriers, and their service policies: on a DAL-IAH run, if you're on ExpressJet, you get a Coke. If you're on SkyWest on the same DAL-IAH, often times the FA will say, "Due to the short nature of this flight, we're only offering water." Funny, the flight isn't any shorter on ExpressJet....

I'm glad you bough that up. This ought to be fixed by now. I personally brought that up when I was at UA Corporate office. I had a nice conversation with Mark Bergsrud (Senior Vice President Marketing) about this very issue and I mentioned when it was COEX under ExpressJet & Colgan things were consistent (both did full beverage service) and that Skywest seems to never serve a beverage on Intra-Texas flights [EVERY Skywest flight I was on Intr-Texas had NO beverage service not even water in CRJ-200] with me putting much emphasis and DAL-IAH and how Skywest uses incorrect flight time always saying DALto IAH is 35 or 30 minute flight. He had no idea this was going on and assured me he will personally take care of this. He was talking to us about consistency and improvement.

I also told the same thing to Scott O'Leary (Managing Director, Customer Solutions at United Airlines). Scott was quick to point out Southwest and what the competition does. CO seemed to understand the importance of consistent product and that their major competitor in Intra-Texas and most short haul flight in the South is Southwest which always does a beverage service. Both of the guys are from sCO, was surprised this was going on and said it will be fixed. They did it at CO so I have no doubt when they both personally assured me it will be fixed at UA>

There are growing pains and things can fall through the cracks and I think this was one thing upper management wasn't aware of. I was impressed by UA Management over those couple of day in Chicago and I believe things will be fixed and get better.



Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6042 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 17):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
What's irritating is the difference between UAX carriers, and their service policies: on a DAL-IAH run, if you're on ExpressJet, you get a Coke. If you're on SkyWest on the same DAL-IAH, often times the FA will say, "Due to the short nature of this flight, we're only offering water." Funny, the flight isn't any shorter on ExpressJet....

I'm glad you bough that up. This ought to be fixed by now.

You can't exactly blame them, per se. Both were just following pre-merger policies; doing EXACTLY as they've been told to from their respective major carriers. Although, I call bullocks with no service on all intra-Texas flights; IAH-ELP, especially.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 18):
You can't exactly blame them, per se. Both were just following pre-merger policies; doing EXACTLY as they've been told to from their respective major carriers.

Per se, I don't blame the F/A's, unless they're being lazy and violating service standards, which in that case I doubt, given the consistency of OO not serving anything, and XE doing a full beverage service.
I do indeed blame the upper management not getting things in order.
Hopefully, this has been solved; I've been avoiding OO's CR2s in and out of Love Field for a while.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 5):
1. DL offers an F/Y product (and Y+ on the E170/175) allowing pax with status the ability to upgrade. UAX does not.

all 70/76 seat jets have F/Y+/Y and Wifi. (so CR7/9 E70/5)

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 6):

Delta also offers a meal in first class if the flight qualifies. Not a snack box, a meal, which puts it much more in line with the DL mainline product----even if it IS, at minimum, a cold meal.

isn't Delta adding ovens to the big RJs? thought i saw this somewhere.(along with the ovens back on the 88s)



yep.
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1571 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6107 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 16):
I also think paying to upgrade on the 145 is a crime! 1A on the ERJ might be one of the worst seats on the plane. The only seats they should be selling as E+ are the exit row seats.

I'm rather fond of 1A, myself... though I probably wouldn't pay extra to get it...



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6042 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6001 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
isn't Delta adding ovens to the big RJs? thought i saw this somewhere.(along with the ovens back on the 88s)

I've heard that they've been added to the E170s, but I've not heard the same for the CRJs. I know that many European carriers have ovens on their CRJ-200s, and offer full meals for the entire cabin, so I know it's entirely possible.

Back when OO flew for Midwest, they actually had small ovens put into the galleys so that the cookies could be baked; however, they were taken out when that ended. I could be wrong, but AFAIK, neither DL or UA are interested in putting ovens on the CRJs.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5863 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 10):

The only option offered on the flight was water.

I could not imagine a flight from EWR to SAV only serving water. This doesn't seem true. If true, I could not imagine that the flight attendant on board did not offer some type of an apology or explanation via the PA system. And the only time we serve pretzels (yes I am an ERJ-145 flight attendant) is if we are delayed on the tarmac for 90+ minutes.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 10):

I was comparing the UAX experience at large vs. the DL experience. DL has made a concious effort to do away with their Y only Connection product. That's the comparison.

You are comparing your ONE experience on UAX vs your ONE experience on DLC and drawing a conclusion. I tell you what, when you fly again sometime within the next few years please book an outbound on a DLC CRJ-200 and then a return on an UAX E-170. I wonder why this is even in Civil Av... sounds like this thread is better suited for Travel Polls/Prefs or Trip Reports

Quoting gigneil (Reply 15):

If not, I'll be quite honest and not intentionally rude, but I don't believe you. All United Express flights that reach a workable altitude offer a full beverage service, and shorter flights where its not possible offer water and juice.

I agree



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23014 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 17):
Scott was quick to point out Southwest and what the competition does. CO seemed to understand the importance of consistent product and that their major competitor in Intra-Texas and most short haul flight in the South is Southwest which always does a beverage service.

Correct, although IIRC unlike some other legacies (cough . . . DL . . . cough),the service level doesn't depend on whether or not there's competition. I flew BTR-IAH on 9L over the summer and there were two full beverage services.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 lhcvg : And that's a very good point to add - DL seems very good at cherrypicking where they have to put their best product to be competitive. One thing that
26 planespotting : Ha - as someone who's flown DAL-HOU quite a bit, that's hilarious. It's typically blocked for at least an hour, with flight time wheels up/wheels dow
27 RDH3E : They do, just not on that aircraft as others have pointed out. This surprises me, but it's probably just some oddity with the way the 145's are ticke
28 Catiii : Priority boarding, which they do not offer. No, it was blocked for 2h 27m (EWR-SAV). Ok, don't believe me. She walked through the aisle three times a
29 Post contains links RDH3E : Just so we're all on the same page, this is data info but telling: The Delta Connection fleet (as of 2011 10k) consisted of: 50 or less- 364 70+ - 25
30 Cubsrule : I don't know how telling it is. DL and UA both merged with carriers that were extremely dependent on 50 seat flying; people forget that NW was little
31 Goldenshield : The product was different even BEFORE DL started cutting back on 50 seaters.
32 RDH3E : It absolutely is telling about the current situation of the fleets as it affect this persons current flying... It helps explain why he gets 50's all
33 Acey559 : As I'm sure you're well aware our Embraer aircraft are getting pretty long in the tooth. Rumor is that they're holding off on any refurbs until brand
34 Cubsrule : That is a fair point. To be honest, the ratios are closer than I would have guessed without pulling the numbers.
35 CO777DAL : You left out a very important part of my quote. I said flight **"I have been on"** I haven't flown IAH-ELP. I do about 50 IAH-DAL flights a year. IAH
36 Deltal1011man : why would they put them on the E-jets but not CR9/7? odd.... Just a note, DL has a set in stone plan to reduce the 50 seaters. UA(as of yet) doesn't.
37 NASBWI : If that's the case, she definitely didn't seem to be the 'lazy' type (as one poster speculated). However, it is odd that she only offered water; perh
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Q400s For United Express (Republic) posted Wed Nov 28 2012 05:56:37 by SaabFA71
Dulles Incident Aug.10 Lufthansa/United Express posted Fri Aug 10 2012 13:40:20 by irishtexan
United Express ERJ-135 Routes Out Of IAH posted Mon May 21 2012 19:19:28 by 96texan
United Express - Colgan Air Saab 340B posted Fri May 4 2012 10:31:46 by N8911E
WN's Future Plans At STL? posted Sun Apr 29 2012 11:41:05 by CIDFlyer
2 United Express Planes Clip Wings At LAX posted Sat Apr 21 2012 09:18:47 by LAXintl
Delta Connection/United Express Rumor posted Wed Mar 7 2012 05:44:47 by dtwpilot225
United Express Q400? posted Fri Nov 26 2010 13:00:48 by NASBWI
USA3000 Future Plans posted Sat Nov 6 2010 14:27:17 by stlAV8R
United Express A/C In New Livery? posted Sat Aug 14 2010 18:35:40 by B777UA