Dalavia From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 398 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10871 times:
If you run the text of the article through Google Translate, this is what you get:
Pegasus Airlines for 90 Airbus A320neo will get the agreement on December 18 at 15:00 Transportation, Communication and Navigation signing ceremony attended by Minister Binali Yildirim. 70 final, 20 a total of 90 aircraft converted into an option agreement that will make the exact order, Pegasus, all Boeing 737 fleet consists of changing the joint session.
List purchase price, including 96.7 million dollars opsiyonyar for A320neo'lar Pegasus Airlines Airbus will pay a total of 8 billion 703 million dollars. New member of the family of Airbus A320 NEO model, will begin to be delivered from 2016.
Pegasus Airlines from Sabiha Gokcen Airport is near the newly built Airbus head office at a ceremony held at the level of Vice President will attend.
Northstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10719 times:
Yes, it is not firm yet, but looks like the order will be signed on the 18th. 70 firm + 20 options for A320 NEOs.
Funny thing is; they only have 737s and the owner was very enthusiastic about the 737 -> even their call center phone number is 250 0 737 !!!
You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1880 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10705 times:
I know Pegasus did a RFP with both Airbus and Boeing back in July for an order for about 40 to 50 new planes, excluding options.
Looking at it, Airbus is the winner with an order for 70 A320NEO's, with an option for 20 planes.
Pegasus is currently operating around 40 planes, mainly B737's, with still a a dozen B737-800s to be delivered. I expected Pegasus to remain loyal to Boeing, so this can be seen as a coup for Airbus.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 36 Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10475 times:
Quoting sturmovik (Reply 5): IIRC, this wouldn't put much of a dent in B's lead, right?
No, it won't. Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011. The NEO was the big driver of sales for Airbus then, and the MAX is the big driver for the sales success Boeing has this year. Over time it will probably (more or less) even out in the market which is owned by Airbus and Boeing together.
Chiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 907 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10316 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6): Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011
If confirmed the NEO order-book will stand at 1649 frames!
The MAX order-book is at the moment 969.
I expect the NEO order-book might "always" be about 500-800 frames larger than the MAX because of the difference in EIS (about 18 months).
If this changes for the benefit of either Airbus or Boeing I would call it a "lead" by that model.
Otherwise they are pretty even IMO.
edit to add: Above article also would also suggest they'd be taking VX's slots (google translation):
"The new generation A320neo less carbon emissions and fuel economy and the environment, which aims to take delivery of orders as of 2015, is aimed at Pegasus."
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6): Boeing has a year now which is more or less comparable with the year Airbus had in 2011.
In terms of percentages and excluding the possible Pegasus order, they're darn near identical. Boeing is currently at 64%, the same percentage Airbus held in 2011
Focker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10015 times:
Quoting flood (Reply 8): In terms of percentages and excluding the possible Pegasus order, they're darn near identical. Boeing is currently at 64%, the same percentage Airbus held in 2011
Does that include the unidentified order for 100, of which it seems the client is AirAsia?
"AirAsia Bhd. (AIRA), the region’s biggest discount airline, plans to unveil an order for 100 Airbus A320 jets today as the carrier expands operations to fend off rising competition, two people familiar with the contract said."
SEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8224 times:
Quoting Chiad (Reply 12): Does that mean that it's not AirAsia who's included as unidentified in Novembers spreadsheet?
No, that article is dated December 13th. So the order is unidentified until tomorrow. In next month's O&D spreadsheet, it will show the orders for AirAsia.
LLA001 From Turkey, joined May 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7501 times:
Do you know if Pegasus has any long haul plans? If I remember correctly at some point they were thinking about US routes but I am not sure.
It would be lovely if they add a few wide bodies to the order ( I know a big no no for LCC's but still it will be good to see some big aircraft at SAW )
I bet in the next decade, TK will be challenged on its trunk long haul routes, like JFK, by a Turkish based company.
It would be awesome if this was Pegasus, I know even though it doesn't match its business plan (though look at AirBerlin), or it could be a revamped Atlasjet....
And wouldn't it be awesome if this was out of SAW. It could work, IST-JFK is probably around 60% O&D, but yet Pegasus have enough of a hub to accommodate transfers.
Maybe 100 NEOs, could be a sweet negotiating platform for a handful of 332/333s???
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 27, posted (5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5790 times:
Congrats to Pegasus and Airbus.
It is nice to point out that Pegasus outdid TK in terms of the largest onetime order.
I can see TK reversing this very shortly. TK is in love with numbers
I find it surprising that the last 3 orders (185 frames) has gone to the NEO, resulting in almost 2 of 3 planes on firm order in this battle being NEO's.
IMO this is starting to look like some domination even though the MAX is to EIS some 18 months later.
Do anyone know about some upcoming orders that might change the balance either way?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 38, posted (5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4863 times:
Congrats to Airbus and Pegasus
Quoting LLA001 (Reply 16): Do you know if Pegasus has any long haul plans? If I remember correctly at some point they were thinking about US routes but I am not sure.
The owner/CEO has talked about his personal dreams to connect his family home town of Adana with the world, however only last week there was a news story that he clearly stated there was no place for longhaul in the Pegasus LCC business model. I know Boeing has certainly made 787 presentations to Pegasus in the past.
Might also be interesting to know that Atlasjet got very close to acquiring A340s. They even signed a LOI with ILFC for a pair of ex Virgin Atlantic aircraft. Their plans were to offer both New York and Bangkok service. Unfortunately their ownership changed just at the juncture that this was happening which changed the companies strategy away from scheduled service back into more charter and ACMI flying which killed the deal.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5025 posts, RR: 29 Reply 40, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4600 times:
Turkey seems to fly under the radar as an airline power, but I suspect this will change over the next few years. I believe it won't be to long before they provide a real challenge to the Gulf carriers.
This is great news for Airbuss, but it must be quite a concern to those airlines currently studying both types. If you assume a production rate of about 30 a month (which it will probably take some time to reach, being a new aircraft), that's about four and a half year's production. Assuming production begins on time and the first delivery takes place in 2015 as planned, then an airline ordering now would not get its own aircraft (i.e. ordered directly) much before 2020.
Looking at the current production list, lessors account for around 360 of the orders placed.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 40): Turkey seems to fly under the radar as an airline power, but I suspect this will change over the next few years. I believe it won't be to long before they provide a real challenge to the Gulf carriers.
I agree totally - up to the point that I think TK does, in many markets. TK recently announced that it serves more countries than any other airline and it has ambitious growth plans for next year, not to mention a plan to order 100 narrowbody types next year. (I realise you're talking about the country, whereas I'm talking about TK!). One of the biggest challenges facing Turkish aviation, and by implication TK, is the lack of capacity at IST and the need to get the new airport opened NE of Istanbul by 2016 - a very tall order!
With the collapse of Syria, strife in Egypt and the isolation of Iran, Turkey's geopolitical importance is going up and up and that can only help Turkey economically, and indeed its airlines.
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2657 posts, RR: 59 Reply 42, posted (5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4268 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 41): This is great news for Airbuss, but it must be quite a concern to those airlines currently studying both types. If you assume a production rate of about 30 a month (which it will probably take some time to reach, being a new aircraft), that's about four and a half year's production. Assuming production begins on time and the first delivery takes place in 2015 as planned, then an airline ordering now would not get its own aircraft (i.e. ordered directly) much before 2020.
Thankfully for the airlines, real-world production isn't 'stacked-up' like that. For instance, AirAsia only planned on taking @ 25 NEO's a year. I don't know if that has changed with last month's order, but even if it did, my hunch would be that figure only increased by 2-4 more frames a year. Otherwise, you're talking about a HUGE capital expenditure in a very short time frame, and that would be a burden on even the most profitable of company's.
In addition, there is often also a certain amount of 'jockeying for position.' Case in point: this very order. Airbus was able to win the Pegasus deal by offering the airline Virgin America's 2015/16 slots.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26700 posts, RR: 83 Reply 43, posted (5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4109 times:
Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 42): In addition, there is often also a certain amount of 'jockeying for position.' Case in point: this very order. Airbus was able to win the Pegasus deal by offering the airline Virgin America's 2015/16 slots.
I wonder if Airbus will reconsider their decision not to increase A320 production to 44 per month...
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2657 posts, RR: 59 Reply 46, posted (5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3867 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 43): I wonder if Airbus will reconsider their decision not to increase A320 production to 44 per month...
I'm sure they're still studying it for the future. But the final decision will likely have to do with: a) their confidence in the supply chain being able to support it. And: b) what Boeing (and their respective supply chain) does as well.
As it stands, both Boeing and Airbus will be producing at 42/month very soon, which to my knowledge is unprecedented. Both in the number produced, as well as the fact they'll be producing at equal rates. Which is why we're seeing near-perfect parity in terms of orders.
Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1 Reply 47, posted (5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
Yes, it did. Good point about Pegasus developing in the similar pattern as Air Berlin. I am glad they've chosen Airbus but what, in your opinion, made them go for an entirely different fleet than the one they already have? Are they unhappy about their Boeing performances or...?
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11360 posts, RR: 50 Reply 48, posted (5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2414 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47): I am glad they've chosen Airbus but what, in your opinion, made them go for an entirely different fleet than the one they already have? Are they unhappy about their Boeing performances or...?
In this specific case, availability seems to have been a significant factor. It's been suggested that Airbus was able to offer earlier slots thanks to the deferral of early neo deliveries by VX.
Despite what both OEMs claim with regard to their product vs the other, overall buying patterns suggest there's very little between them. So it looks as though earlier availability for neos swung it sufficiently for Pegasus to jump to Airbus.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2240 times:
Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 46): As it stands, both Boeing and Airbus will be producing at 42/month very soon, which to my knowledge is unprecedented. Both in the number produced, as well as the fact they'll be producing at equal rates.
From what I understand, since B's annual production is at monthly times twelve and A's at monthly times eleven, having equal monthly rates would translate into B outputting more anually.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26700 posts, RR: 83 Reply 50, posted (5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2053 times:
Quoting scbriml (Reply 48): Despite what both OEMs claim with regard to their product vs the other, overall buying patterns suggest there's very little between them. So it looks as though earlier availability for neos swung it sufficiently for Pegasus to jump to Airbus.
And this likely explains SilkAir switching from the A320 classic to the 737MAX.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 51, posted (5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Even before the order was placed the CEO of Pegasus had made public comments some 6-months ago that delivery of the 737 delivery would be 2-years later compared to Airbus.
Imo this order was Boeing's to lose, which they did. I'm sure the combination of earlier delivery slots, and competitive pricing was enough to push Pegasus into the Airbus camp.
Many carriers these days seems agnostic in the A vs B debate when the products are so comparative.
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