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UA Adding SFO-FLL  
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...sco-fort-lauderdale-route/1763001/

Looks like VX and B6 are going to get a little more competition.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9949 times:

MIA must have super high fees if airlines keep chosing FLL over MIA, SFO-MIA is a former UA route. SFO-FLL is an entirely new route, I'm guessing a 738.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9879 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
MIA must have super high fees if airlines keep chosing FLL over MIA, SFO-MIA is a former UA route. SFO-FLL is an entirely new route, I'm guessing a 738.

A 319 could make the journey too, no? I'm guessing a 320 as well with UA's generally lower density configs



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9865 times:

Plus i mean theres alot of people who FLL is closer and easier to use. Much like EWR it has its fans there is alot of highway traffic in the area so FLL has lots of fans. Its not purely a fees thing there would be a large market for FLL regardless of fees

User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9810 times:

This route will be a bloodbath. ..not sure why they are starting it

I'm sure it already loses lots of money for b6 and vx


User currently offlineboslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9700 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
I'm sure it already loses lots of money for b6 and vx

If that was the case, why would UA be interested? FLL is one of the few markets from SFO where VX enjoys a fare premium (35%) over the other airlines. Could well be B6 and VX are operating profitably and UA wants to join the party. There are 114 PDEW's that are using connecting services in the SFO-FLL market - maybe UA sees the opportunity to capture some of that traffic.


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9678 times:

B6 and VX do it with airbus now so no big deal I would think. and unlike MIA FLL is basically right on top of North/South I95 and East/West I595 going across the state west as I75. You can see your cruise ship from the airport unlike a lot of other ports making it very convenient. Only one runway currently while the skijump one is built on the south side is one drawback...other being Customs is on the south side and not a seamless transfer. UA is in the newest terminal with great access to rental cars and parking and is the first one coming into the airport.

perhaps UA thinks VX is vulnerable and has started to make plans on a post amr/us structure down at MIA....perhaps...


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9677 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
I'm sure it already loses lots of money for b6 and vx

Put more pressure on VX as their main hub and secondary hub are both UA hubs.

Was the last route out of SFO that VX didn't have competition from UA on?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
MIA must have super high fees if airlines keep chosing FLL over MIA, SFO-MIA is a former UA route. SFO-FLL is an entirely new route, I'm guessing a 738.

Well, yes, MIA's fees are high. That's not a secret. Landing fees were lowered this year, though.

But MIA is the nation's fastest growing airport - so to say airlines "keep chosing FLL over MIA" is a lie. They don't. Domestic airlines generally do; international airlines don't.

But FLL's has so many improvement programs going on right now, it's enplanement costs are set to triple and get into dangerously high territory for a low-fare mecca. MIA can support it's high enplanement costs - just like SEA, JFK, YYZ, etc.; FLL can't. It's going to be in the same club as SMF, IND and ONT.

As for this route, it probably has little to do with costs. Newark's newest airline doesn't fly to Miami; and United Express carrier Silver Airways is hubbed in FLL, not MIA.



a.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9618 times:
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If the 73H is too large for this market, UA can always downgauge it to a 73G/A319.
From what I understand, FLL is a much better, friendlier airport to fly into compared to hellish MIA.


User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9402 times:

So MIA being deemed as the fastest growing airport in the US is based on % increase in passengers, correct? I mean, ATL is growing by 3.5% this year, which equates to 2.5 million additional passengers. Just wondering how that compares @ MIA in terms of raw numbers. ATL's growth percentage is relatively low but on a huge base so the actual passenger equivalent is a big number. They're likely to end the year up 3 million passengers over 2011.

I'm going to SoFla in Feb and am looking at MIA vs FLL. Even though I am destined for MIA, I am likely to fly into FLL as the fare is more than $200 cheaper. That's a significant difference, at least to me, for a domestic trip.

And, what @ FLL is leading to the projected skyrocketing operating costs there? Isn't the runway project primarily funded via FAA? If so, that's not something the airlines are going to eat. Is there a massive CIP list over the next 5-years which will drive up the CPE for carriers operating there? FLL is very unlike SMF/IND/ONT in that it is much busier than any of those three..I'd go so far as to say its total pax traffic is rougly the total of those three airports combined. Also, I doubt MIA or PBI are in a position to tackle a huge surge in traffic by airlines looking to defect from FLL. Also, if MIA's costs are already high, then there will be no real incentive for airlines to shift capacity there. FLL may be a "low cost" mecca, but I'm certain the airlines are staying very close to any plans the Airport has which will significantly increase their costs. Also, the additional runway capacity will allow for increased aircraft operations and the ability to add new flights. The more service there is by each carrier, the less of an impact increasing costs have as they're spread across a larger passenger base.

Also, WN, B6, and NK all operate in some high cost airports around the U.S. That doesn't, in any way, justify FLL's costs going however high they are projected to, just to say that this isn't something which is foreign to these three carriers.

AAflyguy


User currently offlineboslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9380 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 7):
Was the last route out of SFO that VX didn't have competition from UA on?

you are correct sir


User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9330 times:
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Anyone have any times for the new flight?

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9297 times:

Great news! Saw this one coming and dont forget about silver airways feed in fll!


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9297 times:

They better have IFE/AVOD with Direct TV and a good flight schedule if they want to compete with Virgin America and jetBlue.

Looking at Seat Guru, it looks like the 739 may be the best fit with the IFE.


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9027 times:

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 14):
They better have IFE/AVOD with Direct TV and a good flight schedule if they want to compete with Virgin America and jetBlue.

Don't need it. They have a cadre of Mileage Plus flyers in the Bay Area who will choose UA for the miles regardless of IFE.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9010 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
But MIA is the nation's fastest growing airport
Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 10):
So MIA being deemed as the fastest growing airport in the US is based on % increase in passengers, correct?

Actually no. Compared to 2011, SFO is seeing around a 10% increase in passenger numbers this year. Miami is growing by nearly 6%, impressive, but still pretty far off from SFO.


I just have to ask... Is American's operation so fortified in MIA that United couldn't take a shot there instead of FLL?



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8822 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
t's going to be in the same club as SMF, IND and ONT.

I don't believe any of those airports are equal to what FLL is. Just because MIA is right now the road from FLL doesn't mean they fight for the same market. MIA is more of an international airport, with an AA hub. It also serves purely MIA and markets south and slightly north of it.

Compared to FLL where their market is Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, Pompano Beach, Boca Raton and West Palm Beach. They also have a large cruise liner feeder market.

Now compared to SMF, IND, ONT they serve secondary markets. Besides ONT, but the whole LAX basin market is kind of flooded with the four other airport.

So no, FLL is not going to become a secondary market like the rest of those airports when the costs rise. It can hold it's own against MIA.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8820 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 16):
I just have to ask... Is American's operation so fortified in MIA that United couldn't take a shot there instead of FLL?

UA is much larger in FLL than MIA. They also, as Tommy767 mentioned, have feed there from Silver Airways dba United Express.


User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3094 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8735 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
A 319 could make the journey too, no? I'm guessing a 320 as well with UA's generally lower density configs

Definitely can; that's what Virgin America uses.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8728 times:
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Quoting CoachClass (Reply 14):
They better have IFE/AVOD with Direct TV and a good flight schedule if they want to compete with Virgin America and jetBlue.

Bring a Kindle and an MP3 too since right now -- with strong winter headwinds -- flights from the Atlantic Ocean to San Francisco are going over six hours. Boston -- at 6h 50m -- seems to be the longest.


User currently offlineboslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8685 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 16):
just have to ask... Is American's operation so fortified in MIA that United couldn't take a shot there instead of FLL?

American is flying 3 daily roundtrips in the SFO-MIA market with an average annual load factor of 90%, which means there's probably some spill occurring. 40% of AA's on-board passengers are local, with the remaining 60% more than likely connecting beyond MIA (some traffic may be connecting to oneworld carriers at SFO). So if UA entered the market, they would compete head-to-head for the local traffic with AA, while each carrier would have a distinct pool of traffic beyond their respective hubs - (UA beyond SFO, AA beyond MIA). 57% of the local SFO-MIA market originates in SFO - very very slight advantage to UA. To compete with AA, I believe UA would need to offer more than one daily roundtrip. At 11.5 block hours, we're talking about one aircraft per roundtrip. Might be too much to ask.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8656 times:

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 14):
They better have IFE/AVOD with Direct TV and a good flight schedule if they want to compete with Virgin America and jetBlue.

It's a 738, and yes they have DirecTv.

http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....-newsArticle&ID=1766728&highlight=



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3094 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8566 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):

It's a 738, and yes they have DirecTv.

Has the whole 738 fleet been equipped with DirecTV? I figure they're close by now.

[Edited 2012-12-12 13:56:59]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks ago) and read 8525 times:

Quoting Catiii (Reply 23):
Has the whole 738 fleet been equipped with DirecTV? I figure they're close by now.

100 out of 130 737-800s currently have DirecTV, all but the 8 that operate from Guam will have DirecTV.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 OB1504 : As mentioned earlier, MIA can justify the fees. UA already has a larger operation at FLL to begin with, so it made sense to fly there. When was the l
26 IcelandairMSP : This isn't about the size of the market, it's about the cost of airport improvements and how that affects fees. IND and SMF both built large new term
27 BOACCunard : It's not just people here. A lot of people still perceive FLL as a more user-friendly airport than MIA. It can take a long time for perceptions to ch
28 modesto2 : Just because UA enters this market doesn't mean they think B6 and VX are making money. Both competitors could be losing money, and UA could enter to i
29 777jaah : If schedule is right, maybe AV can feed some if that traffic too. Ohh boy, I'm just counting before you get flamed and then your post get deleted....
30 bobnwa : Couldn't the poster just be wrong? rather than being called a liar?
31 kgaiflyer : Most especially since "Airlines keep choosing FLL" and "MIA is the nation's fastest growing airport" are different warrants and are not logically all
32 Stratacruiser : I was on one last Thursday PHX-IAH that had no IFE of any kind.[Edited 2012-12-13 18:30:50]
33 FlyDeltaJets : Starts 3/2/2013 - Saturday only 4/9/2013 - Daily service begins Departs SFO 0830 Arrives FLL 1705 Departs FLL 1755 Arrives SFO 2115 Will be loaded fo
34 OB1504 : I think that may have been one of the (newer) aircraft that was originally intended for Alaska Airlines, delivered complete with AS interior. Persona
35 boilerla : I think the majority of the 738s without any IFE were to be delivered with the Koito seats that had to be swapped. Also there are some new 739s that w
36 klwright69 : True. But the CO merger has some rejuvenated UA to MIA. Exactly...
37 STT757 : The majority of the 738s without the DirecTv are the Mid-Cabin lav 738s, they are waiting to be reconfigured. The only 738s that will not receive the
38 as739x : Interesting timing. This will be primary O/D traffic leaving this early from SFO.
39 tommy767 : Absolutely. EWR-MIA regularly sees PMUA 757 metal. Regardless, it seems United wants to be more dominant at FLL with the recent IAD and SFO adds, and
40 psa1011 : Now that UA serves SFO-South Florida, what will be the largest U.S. metro area without nonstop service? ATL? Then further down the list, CLT/BNA/MEM/T
41 EASTERN747 : Timing sucks for cruise ship passengers. The ships usually leave around high tide, between 4-6 or so. Ships arrive in port around 6am and everyone is
42 tommy767 : Has to be ATL or TPA. CLT is flown by US, but if/when they merge with AA I'm sure UA will jump in with a daily frequency to SFO. There are also some
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