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BA Going 4x To Boston In 2013  
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4085 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15413 times:

Three 744s and a 777 each day, to complement AA's twin 757s and a Virgin A340. That's a lot of seats. I'm wondering whether BA senses that AA may drop the route and they are planning to back-fill lost capacity. AA cut BOS from a 'focus city' long ago, but even so...I think they will hold onto the London route. Which, all else being equal, means a big jump in capacity next year.

That's pretty bullish given that even Chuckles the Clown is saying a big recession is coming.

[Edited 2012-12-13 18:58:23]

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19411 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15421 times:

What do you think BA would use as an equivalent once the 744 is gone? Four 77W's?

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15384 times:

AA's not dropping the route.

AA is taking over an MIALHR frequency from BA this summer; BA is taking over an AA BOSLHR frequency from BA this summer. Quite simple.

And how does BA sense anything about what AA does? The trans-Atlantic operations are one, single combined merged entity. Everything AA does, BA does with it - and that includes capacity planning.

AA's 75L is perfect for the market in the winter months when demand drops like a rock between Boston and Europe. Orlando is probably the only major U.S.-EU market that more seasonal demand flux as Boston.

[Edited 2012-12-13 19:05:30]


a.
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4085 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15333 times:

So you're saying that AA is going single-daily 757, and between the 2 carriers there will still be 5 flights?

I do like trading a 744 for a 757, though.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15091 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 3):

So you're saying that AA is going single-daily 757, and between the 2 carriers there will still be 5 flights?

I do like trading a 744 for a 757, though.


AA traditionally operates 3x daily during the summer.



a.
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15080 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Thread starter):
Three 744s and a 777 each day, to complement AA's twin 757s and a Virgin A340.

What about DL daily B767 flight?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
AA's 75L is perfect for the market in the winter months when demand drops like a rock between Boston and Europe. Orlando is probably the only major U.S.-EU market that more seasonal demand flux as Boston.

Umm are you sure? I would be interested to see some data. To my knowledge the only TATL seasonal services are BOS-CDG with both AA and DL and SNN-BOS with EI. While many routes might have lower capacity in winter (as in many TATL routes by the way), they still fly during winter (and for instance BA still sends 3x daily with 777/747, LH still sends their 747 in winter, etc.).

That includes AZ from FCO (yet they fly seasonal to EWR, LAX and ORD), FI from KEF (and they also fly seasonal only to IAD, MSP or YYZ) or VS from LHR (which to ORD and YVR are only in summer).


User currently offlineAirBuffalo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14998 times:

Don't forget the daily 767 DL flight as well ... started as slot handover when the JV between AA and BA was approved for transatlantic flights.

Why would anyone fly AA when their joint venture partner has more flights, better service, on better planes?


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1048 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14965 times:

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 6):
Why would anyone fly AA when their joint venture partner has more flights, better service, on better planes?

Whether they do or not makes no difference to AA/BA.


User currently offlinePDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 6):
Why would anyone fly AA when their joint venture partner has more flights, better service, on better planes?

Price, better connection options in BOS or LHR, most pax don't know the difference or don't care, etc.

Flight 108 has been mostly running more than 90% full this month, with solid bookings through the end of the year (though BA's 744 is disappearing between the 23rd and 31st). So it looks like a lot of people would fly AA despite BA's larger/better/superior presence/service.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14420 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
Umm are you sure?

Yes, I'm sure. I'm not talking about capacity - O&D between. BOS and Europe drops significantly during the summer.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
That includes AZ from FCO (yet they fly seasonal to EWR, LAX and ORD),

The only year round U.S. service for AZ is JFK and MIA. BOS is seasonal just like the rest.



a.
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13163 times:

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 8):
Price, better connection options in BOS or LHR, most pax don't know the difference or don't care, etc.

Flight 108 has been mostly running more than 90% full this month, with solid bookings through the end of the year (though BA's 744 is disappearing between the 23rd and 31st). So it looks like a lot of people would fly AA despite BA's larger/better/superior presence/service.

Exactly, AA, BA or IB will sell you any of the flights interchangeably in their respective websites (just with the "operated by") so likely many people will not even notice whether they are buying AA or BA. And AA's flight has quite a good schedule arriving to LHR at 7 AM (and leaving Boston at 7.20 PM), good to connect with European destinations (even if you have to change from T3 to T5), just in case BA's BOS-LHR at 6 PM (that arrives at 5 AM) is too early.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
Yes, I'm sure. I'm not talking about capacity - O&D between. BOS and Europe drops significantly during the summer.

I am surprised... in summer there is a lot of additional traffic (believe it or not New England is quite a popular place for European tourists... and they are not visiting in January for obvious reasons), VFR to the likes of UK, Ireland, Italy or Portugal (just see additional Aer Lingus flights, for instance), and New England/BOS has the highest rates of international travel in the US (wealthy and educated region, so locals are more likely to travel to Europe... specially in summer). Probably seminar/student/corporate traffic declines but still I would have thought it would be offset with the additional summer traffic (and additional "leisure" services such as the BOS-CDG or BOS-SNN would be on that line).

Again I would be happy to see some figures.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
AA's 75L is perfect for the market in the winter months when demand drops like a rock between Boston and Europe. Orlando is probably the only major U.S.-EU market that more seasonal demand flux as Boston.

I respect a lot of what you have to say when it comes to internal happenings at AA. However, I think your'e a little off base with this one. The fact that BA is adding a 4th flight AND AA is keeping their flights contradicts your claim that BOS is a seasonally fluctuating market like MCO. Unless I'm misunderstanding something this isn't a summer only addition, correct? While MIA is a popular place for Europeans, the ONLY reason MIA has the service it does to LHR - 3x BA and 2x AA is due in part to AA's mega hub status at MIA and BA's mega hub @ LHR. BOS isn't even a focus city, let alone a hub for AA and we have 3x daily (7x daily with BA's flights). As for BOS the only airline that operates seasonally into BOS is AZ (and they only curt service for like 1 month - February). Every other airline maintains daily flights through the winter and most operate double daily in summer.

And while I realize it's not a transatlantic route, if the BOS market was so seasonal would we be seeing BOS-NRT daily all year round?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
Yes, I'm sure. I'm not talking about capacity - O&D between. BOS and Europe drops significantly during the summer.

Summer is actually the busiest time a year for BOS-Europe. Now i'm truly convinced you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the BOS market.


User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11905 times:

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 8):
Price, better connection options in BOS or LHR, most pax don't know the difference or don't care, etc.

I hear this alot on these forums and while I tend to agree is most cases I think that a passenger would notice a difference between crossing in a 757 vs. a 747. Also the service and inflight experience on BA vs AA would also probably be noticable as well.



RUSH
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10761 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 12):
Now i'm truly convinced you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the BOS market.

I'm pretty sure he meant winter:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
AA's 75L is perfect for the market in the winter months when demand drops like a rock between Boston and Europe.


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10607 times:

I've been told AA is dropping LHR completely but keeping seasonal CDG. That was word of mouth.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 13):
Summer is actually the busiest time a year for BOS-Europe. Now i'm truly convinced you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the BOS market.

I'm talking about winter, my error.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 13):
The fact that BA is adding a 4th flight AND AA is keeping their flights contradicts your claim that BOS is a seasonally fluctuating market like MCO

That's simply because AA hasn't updated schedules yet. The current plan is for AA to reduce BOSLHR by one daily RT next summer, and use the BA 744 capacity to replace it. These changes are currently not reflected in schedules.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 13):
Unless I'm misunderstanding something this isn't a summer only addition, correct?

It is a summer-only addition.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 13):
While MIA is a popular place for Europeans, the ONLY reason MIA has the service it does to LHR - 3x BA and 2x AA is due in part to AA's mega hub status at MIA and BA's mega hub @ LHR.

MIALHR is a larger local market than BOSLHR, albeit not by much. MIALHR and BOSLHR are both around 700 PDEW. MIALHR demand is quite consistent year-round, but BOSLHR demand drops quite a bit in the winter months outside of December and picks up dramaticlly in the summer. MIA is also a larger market to just about every major European gateway city than Boston - Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Rome, Brussels, Moscow, etc. - except Dublin, Shannon and Manchester. Further, VS flies MIALHR, too.

Miami is actually quite underserved to Europe comparing capacity to demand - but a lot of the large markets like Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Paris are simply low-yielding. MIA-Europe is a mixed bag, though, because then there are markets like Milan, Moscow, Zurich and London which have high fares and robust premium demand.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 13):
And while I realize it's not a transatlantic route, if the BOS market was so seasonal would we be seeing BOS-NRT daily all year round?

What does BOSNRT have to do with BOS-Europe?

U.S.-Asia market in general does not have the great seasonal flux that U.S.-Europe has. Demand is a lot more consistent year-round.

[Edited 2012-12-14 13:07:41]


a.
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4085 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10165 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 16):
I've been told AA is dropping LHR completely but keeping seasonal CDG. That was word of mouth.

That makes sense. Ever since the 777s went away I've felt that AA flew the route more as a use-it-or-lose-it placeholder than a route they really wanted and needed. Their focus on JFK explains that. AA and UA seem to generally see Boston as a necessary evil, missing the point that the BOS metro area is huge and economically healthy. As though the 'northeast' means 'New York' and nothing else.


User currently offlinevectismanpaul From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

Is there a possibility in the future that maybe during peak periods such as the summer months both BA and AA could use Gatwick for some seasonal flights to destinations in the USA. With BA looking for expansion eastwards this could ease pressure on slots during the peak periods. O&D is heavier in summer and maybe at Christmas time. Such traffic is less fussed about which London Airport it arrives at. BA already serve Las Vegas, Orlando and Tampa all year round from Gatwick.

V


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9057 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):

I agree with you on that Chris.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8988 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
That's simply because AA hasn't updated schedules yet. The current plan is for AA to reduce BOSLHR by one daily RT next summer, and use the BA 744 capacity to replace it. These changes are currently not reflected in schedules.

Even with AA's reduction of 1 757, BA picking that up with a 747 not only increases capacity, but still puts BOS-LHR ahead of MIA with 6x daily between AA & BA compared to MIA's 4x daily between the two. Add in the fact that BOS also has VS 1x daily and DL 1x daily you have 8x BOS-LHR and 5x MIA-LHR. I don't think I need to provide anymore data to suggest that BOS-LHR and Europe overall is a much larger market.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
MIALHR is a larger local market than BOSLHR, albeit not by much. MIALHR and BOSLHR are both around 700 PDEW. MIALHR demand is quite consistent year-round, but BOSLHR demand drops quite a bit in the winter months outside of December and picks up dramaticlly in the summer. MIA is also a larger market to just about every major European gateway city than Boston - Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Rome, Brussels, Moscow, etc. - except Dublin, Shannon and Manchester. Further, VS flies MIALHR, too.

Miami is actually quite underserved to Europe comparing capacity to demand - but a lot of the large markets like Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Paris are simply low-yielding. MIA-Europe is a mixed bag, though, because then there are markets like Milan, Moscow, Zurich and London which have high fares and robust premium demand.

I think I've already proved you wrong that BOS-LHR is the larger market. IF you have concrete data and a link to that that shows concrete passenger stats, please provide it and prove me wrong.

Even in the winter months BOS still maintains 3X daily BA BOS-LHR, 2x AA, 1X VS, 1X DL. Take away even AA's and we're still ahead of MIA's 4X (2 BA, 2 AA) in the winter months. BOS-FRA is equal to MIA-FRA in the winter. MIA-AMS is a market that gets dropped and added so quick who can keep up with it, yet BOS-AMS maintains double daily DL year round. MIA-BRU and BOS-BRU isn't served so no point comparing the two. MIA-Moscow is a measly 2x per week. Boston also maintains the following European service that MIA doesn't:
**KEF
**DUB
**SNN
**PDL



I'm not here to argue with you, I'm here to prove to you that your knowledge of the BOS market is off and isn't the seasonal market you claim it to be. BOS is, and will always be a much large business market than MIA.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):
I think I've already proved you wrong that BOS-LHR is the larger market. IF you have concrete data and a link to that that shows concrete passenger stats, please provide it and prove me wrong.

I have MIDT O&D passenger data.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):
Even in the winter months BOS still maintains 3X daily BA BOS-LHR, 2x AA, 1X VS, 1X DL. Take away even AA's and we're still ahead of MIA's 4X (2 BA, 2 AA) in the winter months. BOS-FRA is equal to MIA-FRA in the winter. MIA-AMS is a market that gets dropped and added so quick who can keep up with it, yet BOS-AMS maintains double daily DL year round. MIA-BRU and BOS-BRU isn't served so no point comparing the two. MIA-Moscow is a measly 2x per week. Boston also maintains the following European service that MIA doesn't:

Irrelevant. The amount of non-stop capacity a route has does not coorelate with it's O&D traffic. And Miami-Moscow has five weekly flights on two airlines. I will gladly supply you with approximate O&D for major markets from Boston/Miami to Europe. Based on FY2011 MIDT traffic data.

Boston's largest trans-Atlantic markets:
1) LON ~700 PDEW
2) PAR ~290 PDEW
3) DUB ~220 PDEW
4) FRA ~125 PDEW
5) ROM ~120 PDEW
6) AMS ~115 PDEW
7) MAD ~100 PDEW
8) ZRH ~80 PDEW
9) SNN ~75 PDEW
10) MUC ~70 PDEW

Miami's largest trans-Atlantic markets:
1) LON ~700 PDEW
2) PAR ~340 PDEW
3) MAD ~210 PDEW
4) FRA ~190 PDEW
5) ZRH ~170 PDEW
6) ROM ~160 PDEW
7) MXP/AMS ~140 PDEW each
8) TLV ~130 PDEW
9) DUS/BCN ~100 PDEW each
10) CPH ~95 PDEW

MIA is a significantly larger market to Europe than Boston. I never argued that Boston-Europe isn't a strong premium market. It absolutely is. Boston has stronger business ties to Germany, the UK and northern Europe than South Florida; but South Florida has much stronger corporate ties to Spain, Italy, Switzerland and Portugal than Boston. And the correlating fares reflect that - Miami attracts stronger J traffic than Boston to southern Europe; Boston attracts stronger J traffic than Miami to northern Europe. Premium demand from Miami to many parts of northern Europe is absolutely attorcious, which is why Miami struggles to support routes like Amsterdam despite significant local demand, and has no service to markets like Stockholm, Munich or Copenhagen (all over 80 PDEW). At the same time, Boston struggles to maintain links to Italy, Spain and Portugal at consistent frequency, while Miami maintains such links year-round and, in the case of Portugal, on a non-charter airline.

[Edited 2012-12-14 16:46:57]


a.
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

I don't want approximate data, I (and the people of this forum) want concrete figures - i.e. a link to back up these stats. You're pulling all of this out of your a** as far as I'm concerned.. You may say that non-stop capacity a route has is irrelevant, but I guarantee you an airline doesn't throw an airplane on a route unless there's passengers to be carried and more importantly - money to be made. When you want to stop throwing out numbers and start providing links, then your input will be taken seriously. Otherwise, I think it's pretty obvious the airlines know what they're doing and adding capacity where it's needed - which ISN'T @ MIA.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 24):
I don't want approximate data, I (and the people of this forum) want concrete figures - i.e. a link to back up these stats. You're pulling all of this out of your a** as far as I'm concerned.. You may say that non-stop capacity a route has is irrelevant, but I guarantee you an airline doesn't throw an airplane on a route unless there's passengers to be carried and more importantly - money to be made. When you want to stop throwing out numbers and start providing links, then your input will be taken seriously. Otherwise, I think it's pretty obvious the airlines know what they're doing and adding capacity where it's needed - which ISN'T @ MIA.

I can't link to MIDT data. Other's here that can view it will gladly be able to back-up the figures, which are 100% accurate, albeit I rounded out the numbers to the nearest 5 or 0.

Sorry you choose not to believe them, but if you want to live in a fantasy land where Boston-Europe is the bigger market, that's your choice.

Further, I think your disilussioned if you think Boston is support that capacity on its own. Both Miami and Boston are major transit connecting hubs for traffic to/from Europe and have capacity far in excess of local demand.

In addition, Miami is seeing capacity to Europe increase this summer. So what exactly do you mean by your last, sentence?

[Edited 2012-12-14 16:57:17]


a.
User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8896 times:

If a fantasy land is one where airlines, such as BA, are adding 747's on routes to LHR from BOS (on top of AA's 3x daily) and not MIA, then that's where I'm living.

User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8972 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 25):
Further, I think your disilussioned if you think Boston is support that capacity on its own. Both Miami and Boston are major transit connecting hubs for traffic to/from Europe and have capacity far in excess of local demand.

MIA is a huge hub for OneWorld with AA's presence there. This thread was specifically stated to BA adding a 4th daily LHR-BOS frequency. Please tell me who is flying LHR-BOS for a connecting flight?!?! No major airline has a hub in BOS or uses it for connecting purposes. AA has all but dismantled BOS for any connecting purposes.


25 mah4546 : What are you talking about? BA added a third daily 747-400 to Miami, coincidently, this past weekend. And keep in eye on that AA BOSLHR schedule. It'
26 mah4546 : Look up something called interline connecting. It's an extremely common industry practice. As for where connecting people are coming from: MIA itself
27 chrisnh : Frankfurt is 125 people each way per day out of Boston??? That's a 757 with seats left over!! Lufthansa must be running some VERY empty planes on this
28 VS11 : I feel like BOS-LHR will be just BA and VS in view of the recent VS/DL JV. I totally think AA will drop entirely the market and so would DL giving up
29 SCQ83 : FRA could make sense... an A340 seats about 300... pure hypotesis... since I don't know about LH's figures O&D VS transit, but 40/60 (a massive hu
30 mah4546 : And? People grossly overestimate how much traffic on long-haul routes is local. It's rarely more than 30-40%, from any city sans NYC. On top of that,
31 Post contains images OA412 : Isn't this thread supposed to be about BA adding a 4th daily BOS-LHR flight next year, rather than about the glories of Miami?
32 theginge : I have read that midt data does not include people who book on airline websites hence numbers look low.
33 FreshSide3 : In both cases, the lack of anything else to get them where they're going....there are a lot of markets for BOS, but not enough to warrant having any
34 Post contains images clrd4t8koff : BA hasn't added a 3rd 744 at MIA. I've looked at ba.com and used several dates over the summer (7/11 & 8/15) and there are only 2 LHR flights BA
35 Post contains links VV701 : The number of passengers carried in 2011 were, according to the British CAA: Between LHR and BOS: 1,030,867 Between LHR and MIA: 953,878 Source: http
36 chrisnh : Since I started the thread, I'll divert it: Boston is gaining some international steam with international carriers...not U.S. flag carriers. Which is
37 clrd4t8koff : Thank you! I appreciate not only a link to concrete data, but someone else stepping in to prove to MAH4546 what I've been saying all along - BOS IS T
38 VV701 : I guess this reflects the fact that the international carriers are flying from their main hub to BOS and that BOS is not a significant hub for any of
39 Post contains images Super80DFW : Why are you in this for a competition? MAH4546 is simply stating a correlation between AA dropping BOS, and AA adding extra capacity from MIA. You're
40 mah4546 : Here's an idea: check the BA schedule for TODAY. Three daily 754s MIALHR. That's the number of passengers carried. That includes people connecting. F
41 mah4546 : I think it's possible. Lets see if this is the summer that AA finally takes advantage of ATI to open up secondary markets like BDLLHR or CLELHR. Also
42 Post contains links adamh8297 : All, Something close to 2003 and 2011 O&D data is listed here: http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation Its a gold mine for those o
43 iowaman : Fellow members, I kindly ask to keep this thread on topic and to avoid turning this into a MIA vs BOS argument. Thanks, Kevin/iowaman
44 VS11 : Why are you surprised? It makes perfect sense - AA has been in contracting mode for a long time. It will be some time before they can have a product
45 adamh8297 : Don't rule out EK starting BOS-DXB as well. The only domestic carrier I could see starting a long-haul would be the off chance DL starts BOS-ICN in c
46 thenoflyzone : Just checked random dates for this summer on AA.com, and all BOS-LHR-BOS flights are operated by BA. For some reason, only 3 flights were listed. Not
47 clrd4t8koff : [quote=adamh8297,reply=45]Everything MAH4546 posts matches up with these numbers except: 2011 O&D BOS-LON (includes MHT but not PVD) = 512,648 MIA
48 mah4546 : You accused me of lying and making up traffic figures, which have since been shown to be true. My O&D data is for APR11-MAR12, in which MIALON wa
49 adamh8297 : What will AA do with the freed up slots? Add 1-2 secondary U.S. Destinations or Increase hub-LHR flights?
50 FlyCaledonian : The three AA flights are still showing up on ba.com, but the the four BA flights also show up there. Looks like AA is withdrawing from LHR-BOS. I kno
51 chrisnh : I hope the media makes a big deal of this. Increasingly, AA is a minor player at Logan and needs to be portrayed as such. Same with United.
52 FlyCaledonian : The BA/AA ATI deal is metal neutral, so those four BA LHR-BOS flights will be marketed fully by AA.
53 Post contains images airbazar : I don't get this discussion. It's common knowledge that TATL demand between the US and Eurupe is far greater in Summer than in Winter, not matter wha
54 bobnwa : Could you furnish some numbers to back up that statement
55 thenoflyzone : AA/BA, VS and DL have BOS-LHR covered. Why would EK or another Gulf carrier waste a LHR slot over BOS. Gulf carriers will come, and they will come non
56 chrisnh : I'm guessing the airline that has said NOTHING about Boston--Emirates--will trump the airlines that have (Qatar, Turkish).
57 Post contains links adamh8297 : QR recently announced DOH-ATH-JFK. EK's CEO has mentioned serving North America one-stop via Europe or Asia. (article is in German). It may not be ne
58 adamh8297 : They do have the codeshare and frequent-flier reciprocity with B6 so they are the ideal airline with the only caveat being they may not have the righ
59 SCQ83 : That is comparing apples to oranges. QR is interested to start ATH non-stop services to the US, which doesn't mean they are cutting direct services f
60 airbazar : EK can make anything happen. This year they started LIS with 772 and it quickly became 773. Who knew LIS had so much demand. Surely BOS has more dema
61 Post contains links VV701 : Passenger numbers flying between LHR and BOS through 2011 as published on the UK CAA web site at: http://caa.searchimprove.com/search....20statistics
62 Post contains links rob2507 : AA cancels BOS-LHR altogether? http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/17/aa-boslhr-s13cxld/
63 thenoflyzone : Yes. Overall, a downgauge of seats on the route for AA/BA during the summer season. Thenoflyzone
64 commavia : Sad to see AA dropping BOS-LHR altogether, although not entirely surprising. Back two years ago when the AA/BA deal was finalized, BOS-LHR was the mos
65 ChrisNH : And in keeping with the recession many 'experts' say is coming. No sense in flying seats that people don't have the financial wherewithal to fill. I
66 VS11 : There is no recession coming but that's another topic... The laws of competition sooner or later kick in...the better (in this case European) carrier
67 adamh8297 : VS going from A340 to A330 as well drops another 30-40 seats daily off the route.
68 bobnwa : How has DL evolved into a ticket taker at BOS?
69 Post contains links clrd4t8koff : That depends - VS goes back and forth between the A346, A343, 744 quite regularly @ BOS, with the A343 being the primary aircraft. VS's new 3 class A
70 apodino : How does the recently ratified TA handle the JV issue? Is it a 50 percent thing like Delta, or since BOS is no longer really a focus city, does it eve
71 VCy : HOPE ITS LCA! Lots of demand for the USA from Cyprus. its been done in the past with gulf air.
72 Post contains links VV701 : This is a publicly stated objective. Here is an extract from Slide 117, "Hub Development", of a presentation by then BA CEO Willie Walsh at the BA In
73 AIR MALTA : Bad... I think that passengers rather enojy the hassle free Terminal 7 in New York...
74 ChrisNH : If we understand that 3x 757s > 1 744 (the tradeoff between AA leaving and BA adding 1x 744), will either Delta or Virgin see this as an opportunit
75 B377 : It should be no surprise that the slots are probably already allocated based on the JV rules with BA to 1 slot each way for DL's DFW-ATL-LHR service
76 DolphinAir747 : I am not surprised that AA has cut the route, seeing as they have less premium traffic...
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