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WN To Add New Fees  
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14022 times:

To be sure, first and second bags will still be free, but third bags and overweight fees will be going up, in addition to a new "no-show" fee and jacking up fees for FL.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...westair-fees-idUSBRE8BD0SY20121214

Quote:
The company told investors on Friday that it will raise fees on third bags and overweight baggage, increase fees for flights on AirTran, the carrier it bought last year, and roll out new fees tied to the sale of open and premium boarding positions at airport gates. The company also said it would implement a no-show fee for restricted tickets that are not canceled by passengers prior to departure.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13918 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Thread starter):
in addition to a new "no-show" fee

WN doesn't charge change fees, even with the other changes, so I see this as taking advantage of customers that don't know about or want to use WN's no-change-fee policy.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9390 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13756 times:

In addition, Bloomberg is reporting 300 jobs will be cut through attrition in 2013.


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6818 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13719 times:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: WN has a revenue problem and they over-committed with the "bags fly free" deal long ago (only because they didn't ahve the means to collect said revenue).

Now they've got to find a way to backtrack and ameliorate that position, whilst looking like they're still not nickel and diming like the other majors.

So this is a testing-the-waters move as well, to see what can be absorbed without too much protestation. They'll incrementally start to layer on fees to help make up for the MAJOR bucks they have decided to leave on the table.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9390 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13704 times:

Fee details -

AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

Southwest earlybird fee up from $10 to $12.50
Southwest overweight bag fee up from $50 to $100

Southwest reducing overhead by $100m in 2013
Southwest fleet won't grow before hitting ROIC goal



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13600 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 1):
WN doesn't charge change fees, even with the other changes, so I see this as taking advantage of customers that don't know about or want to use WN's no-change-fee policy.

I guess I don't see it quite that way. I see it as encouraging people who aren't going to fly to take advantage of the no-change fee to open up the space for potential last minute passengers for more potential revenue, but then again, I guess it's just another creative way to get money out of people without going down the pay-for-bags road. At least they can say these fees will affect a small minority of passengers vs. the legacies, whose fees affect virtually every passenger.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13599 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):
AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

Might as well enjoy it while they are still a separate brand!   



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13306 times:

In the no fee vs. fee arena WN needs to decide if they want to be WN or FL and move forward from their. Both brands fly under a single certificate at least in the eyes of the feds.

This undoubtedly has/will become confusing to the flying public and may end up being a public relations quagmire. I'm pondering if it might benefit WN to spin off the FL as a ULCC; keeping WN as a LCC.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2363 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 2):
In addition, Bloomberg is reporting 300 jobs will be cut through attrition in 2013.

Can you post the link to that please...

[Edited 2012-12-14 09:23:05]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13011 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 3):
(only because they didn't ahve the means to collect said revenue).



If WN doesn't have the means to collect fees on the 1st and 2nd bag then how do they have the means to collect fees on overweight bags, pets, unaccompanied minors, and any number of bags over two?


User currently offlineplateman From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12994 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
Can you post the link to that please...

Yes, please post the link. I just read the Bloomberg story (both public and on terminal) and it makes no mention of any job cuts at all.



"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7231 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12991 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

Fee details -

AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

It's pretty interesting that they are raising bag fees at FL while saying they add no value to WN branded flights.


User currently onlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12864 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
It's pretty interesting that they are raising bag fees at FL while saying they add no value to WN branded flights.

More evidence they are intrigued by the whole concept of charging for bags otherwise why be so gung ho about it on Airtran.

Once they have a taste they will want to grow ancillary revenue.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12866 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

Fee details -

AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

It's pretty interesting that they are raising bag fees at FL while saying they add no value to WN branded flights.

This right here is the reason I think WN wants bag fees. I hear the arguments that no bag fees has attracted business but I am not convinced that it's outweighing the bag fees.

Of course, if/when they do start charging, that will cause a lot of dismay, but what are people supposed to do? Just about everyone else charges for them



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7524 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12656 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

Fee details -

AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

It's pretty interesting that they are raising bag fees at FL while saying they add no value to WN branded flights.

This right here is the reason I think WN wants bag fees. I hear the arguments that no bag fees has attracted business but I am not convinced that it's outweighing the bag fees.

Of course, if/when they do start charging, that will cause a lot of dismay, but what are people supposed to do? Just about everyone else charges for them

B6 still allows for one free checked bag. That said, I can possibly see WN start charging for the 2nd bag once the FL brand disappears for good as part of a consolidation compromise of sorts.

However, I don't see WN charging for the 1st checked bag until B6 does so. It'll be a game of Chicken of sorts between those 2 carriers.

I find it very interesting that everytime fees (baggage fees in particular) get discussed, everybody (supposedly on the side of 'shareholders') slams WN on the subject but completely ignores B6.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12548 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
This right here is the reason I think WN wants bag fees. I hear the arguments that no bag fees has attracted business but I am not convinced that it's outweighing the bag fees.

It's probably attracted the business of cheap people on excursion fares with heavy bags--not profitable business flyers who don't usually check bags anyway.


User currently offlinePDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12547 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

AirTran first bag fee up from $20 to $25
AirTran second bag fee up $25 to $35

Southwest earlybird fee up from $10 to $12.50
Southwest overweight bag fee up from $50 to $100

You know what the new fees are for 3rd+ bags?


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7231 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12513 times:

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 12):
More evidence they are intrigued by the whole concept of charging for bags otherwise why be so gung ho about it on Airtran.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
This right here is the reason I think WN wants bag fees.

I think they definitely do. The only issue probably is that the WN system can't charge bag fees effectively. They can only use the old style MCO type system where the agent can easily override it. Presently, they can't inhibit a boarding pass issuance or deny boarding automatically without bag payment. It's all essentially honor system on the part of the agents.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 14):
That said, I can possibly see WN start charging for the 2nd bag once the FL brand disappears for good as part of a consolidation compromise of sorts.

They need to do that to make the code share work. If there is a code share and the fees are this different, it's a huge mess and it's getting worse.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 14):
However, I don't see WN charging for the 1st checked bag until B6 does so. It'll be a game of Chicken of sorts between those 2 carriers.

They hardly overlap with B6. Irrelevant.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12462 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
I think they definitely do. The only issue probably is that the WN system can't charge bag fees effectively. They can only use the old style MCO type system where the agent can easily override it. Presently, they can't inhibit a boarding pass issuance or deny boarding automatically without bag payment. It's all essentially honor system on the part of the agents.

I hear this all the time and I can't wrap my head around it... why can't they just hire some programmers to fix this?! (besides the obvious answer of they don't want to charge for bags so they don't need to.) But as far as them using said excuse to not being able to charge for bags, I don't buy it, at all.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12147 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 9):
If WN doesn't have the means to collect fees on the 1st and 2nd bag then how do they have the means to collect fees on overweight bags, pets, unaccompanied minors, and any number of bags over two?

I have posted that same argument multiple times on here and never once has anyone had an explanation for it.

The anti-WN people are quick to say that the only reason WN is not charging fees is because they don't have the technology to to it... yet they can charge for extra bags, UMS, etc....Not sure what technology is needed to charge for the first and second bag that isn't already being used to add for the third and fourth.

I hear ya, 737tanker!


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1919 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11986 times:

So what's the no-show fee entail? Personally, I have no problem with it...if you're dumb enough to not canx it beforehand, then that's the risk you take.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2125 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11568 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 21):
So what's the no-show fee entail?

I don't think it's been announced, but I imagine it'd be a $50/$75 "fee" to reuse the funds--similar to how they charge you to reissue expired ticketless travel funds.

I think it's a good idea. Just don't start charging me change fees.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7524 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
They hardly overlap with B6. Irrelevant.

I wouldn't go that far. While they may not overlap too much in terms of non-stop routes at many airports; they can (& do) compete on routes involving connections. WN isn't going to hand over a bag fee advantage over to B6; especially since they now serve many of the same airports now regardless of route overlapping or lack thereof.

Personal take: the only reason why B6 hasn't charged for the first bag yet was very likely due to the fact that WN started invading their home turf (BOS & NYC). They're not going to give WN an additional upper hand advantage.

I'm almost willing to bet money that had WN already been in ATL years before its merger w/FL; FL would've likely never considered charging a fee for the 1st checked bag.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2193 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 7):
In the no fee vs. fee arena WN needs to decide if they want to be WN or FL and move forward from their. Both brands fly under a single certificate at least in the eyes of the feds.

Trust me. Once WN and FL move to a single IT platform (Amadeus) they will implement bag fees stat. Whether 1st or 2nd, I'm not sure, but it's either that or find another way to curb costs, i.e. layoffs, which would have a much more resounding, undesirable effect from a PR perspective.

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
I think they definitely do. The only issue probably is that the WN system can't charge bag fees effectively. They can only use the old style MCO type system where the agent can easily override it. Presently, they can't inhibit a boarding pass issuance or deny boarding automatically without bag payment. It's all essentially honor system on the part of the agents.

  



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5126 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10990 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 23):


Trust me. Once WN and FL move to a single IT platform (Amadeus) they will implement bag fees stat. Whether 1st or 2nd, I'm not sure, but it's either that or find another way to curb costs, i.e. layoffs, which would have a much more resounding, undesirable effect from a PR perspective.

I see the first bag free, they can still advertise: Your Bag (singular) Flies Free! and commence with the 2nd bag charges...

And though they may be loathe to do so, a proper business class section on aircraft may be forthcoming down the road as well. They've certainly had time to see the numbers at FL and as they move to longer route segments this may become a necessity. Hell, even NK has "The Big Front Seat" option.



Ozark Flies Your Way
25 ouboy79 : It is quite obvious WN will be WN and the brand will not change from much of what we have today. More and more FL cities are converted to WN and FL i
26 hohd : I see WN charging for 2nd bag in the future for all except refundable fares and A-list members. I doubt they will charge for the first bag ever, unles
27 airliner371 : I think the new "no-show" fee will address that but we will see tomorrow.
28 ouboy79 : Work rules are the main thing to get costs under control, and WN is still below the other "big guys" in terms of CASM. People really need to just wai
29 infiniti329 : This ship as sailed a longgggg time ago, and WN will not want their name associated with an ULCC First off is we wanted to charge bags we could do it
30 MaverickM11 : The math never made sense--one bag fee that is virtually 100% non-taxed profit, or an additional passenger "shifted" at the average fare of around $1
31 DeltaMD90 : I agree, which is why I don't understand the many people claiming that WN's system is incapable of bag fees so that's why they don't do them...
32 ouboy79 : When people aren't directly involved or educated on what is going on, they can only speculate.
33 canyonblue17 : My only argument in favor of this is that since the other airlines have instituted bag fees, roughly the last five years, Southwest's load factor has
34 Post contains images mayor : Probably because B6 doesn't shove the fact in your face.
35 DeltaMD90 : Yes, but that still doesn't change the fact that a huge, multi-billion dollar company's business decisions are at the mercy of a unmodifiable compute
36 mayor : Then why have they been unable to do the codeshare with FL that was talked about? THAT should be a very easy programming change.
37 Post contains images B757forever : An so has everyone elses, even the "mean" airlines that charge bag fees.
38 RamblinMan : The problem being that the type of pax they are likely to attract with this sort of thing are not the type of pax that they make any money on. Now th
39 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I forgot about that, same alley as what I was talking about... Sure, it might take a few million dollars and a few weeks, but it can easily be done.
40 mayor : I'm not even saying that this is something WN said, BUT, if they want to do the codeshare, why don't they? Seems like it might be a programming probl
41 AirCalSNA : I really don't get your logic. Isn't the no-change fee automatic, whether you know about it or want to use it? If so, then the no-show fee actually s
42 Post contains links Atrude777 : Well....are you referring to a Cancellation Fee which is what it sounds like WN will implment IF the passenger does not cancel the itinerary in advan
43 SKC : You're comparing the tech differences in being able to charge for a bag vs being able to merge two entirely different airline networks? Are you being
44 mayor : They don't have to merge the networks, in the computer.........if their computer and tech department is so top notch, they should be able to merge FL
45 AirCalSNA : So the only change is that the risk of forfeiture is rising to 100%? Makes sense.
46 Atrude777 : I typed all that and left out the key note that was the point of the whole post... In addition to that...you will have to pay a fee (amount undecided
47 Post contains images lightsaber : I find it amusing how adamant people are about bag fees on a.net. Oh, I highly dislike them. Its one reason I fly B6. Agreed. The 'last one standing'
48 Post contains images ouboy79 : The amounts aren't that bad compared to what we have now. I'll wait for it to be on the blog before commenting further though. It can also be much lo
49 Atrude777 : Oh wow, that has changed since I worked there then, interesting to know! Just quoting the article! Hahaha Alex
50 AirCalSNA : So they would charge your credit card an extra fee, in addition to not refunding your fare? That sounds very harsh, and just seems like it would be a
51 chrisair : I've been flying WN routinely for 10 years--it's always been this way. No show your flight and you can reuse the whole ticket. I don't think it'll wo
52 AWACSooner : I can say with some degree of common sense that WN will just keep a chunk of the remaining airfare as a penalty...say you bought a r/t for $350...the
53 AirCalSNA : I thought that's what I said ... but maybe not clearly. Anyway, it sounds like a reasonable move to me.
54 N867DA : I agree--I think they are horrible idea from a customer's standpoint and make air travel more difficult. I prefer to fly Southwest over Delta on trip
55 ouboy79 : One thought that I would have with that is that as more FL cities are full converted over, that is going to reduce the effectiveness of the ATL hub.
56 GentFromAlaska : I would add to the list any potential charge for persons of girth for the extra seat and reimburse them if the seat is not sold to another customer.
57 ouboy79 : Customer of Size charges were eliminated about a month or two ago. The company no longer changes for an extra seat for a COS, unless the customer cho
58 OB1504 : Shouldn't the ticket agents already be weighing bags and assessing overweight fees before putting the bag on the belt? Agents can also immediately te
59 MountainFlyer : That's what my take was. Yes, but there will probably be some sort of time frame in which you have to cancel or change without penalty, similar to a
60 airplaneboy : I believe the no show fee will apply to the "Wanna Get Away" fare class only (the lowest fare class available). This makes sense, especially when you
61 ouboy79 : Well, Business Select and Anytime are fully refundable anyway so that is why they aren't really part of this. Plus if the flight is packed, do you wa
62 par13del : Guess the management may not be as bright as we thought if they are going to let pride kill their business. So if they never gained pax by not chargi
63 MountainFlyer : I'm assuming you're in the know? When might we be expecting an announcement?
64 Asteriskceo : This is not procedure anymore. If the customer volunteers to pay for the extra seat, then obviously WN will charge them. But, if they don't, they jus
65 ScottB : There's no need to do so as the ticket agent has a scale at the counter which is used to weigh the bag. RFID isn't really necessary, either, when bar
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