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This Is Too Low - Rotate, Rotate!  
User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2156 times:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Toni Marimon



Why did this 738 take its gear up so soon and not rotate more?

Airbus380

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1920 times:

I think it was a delivery flight fly-by to show off the new aircraft and new colors.


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

The caption of the photo says it all.A low pass upon delivery.

I suppose the pilots have pulled a circuit breaker or two to silence the GPWS!  Laugh out loud



"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineSxmarbury33 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

I dont know why there is a flap and gear inhibit on the GPWS. I mean i could understand the thinking behind it but if you know that you are doing a flyby cant you just ignore the warnings. Also donsnt it inhibit the sink rate woop woop pull up warnings i might want some of those depeneding on what i was doing.

User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Flap override is available on the Dash 8 for training purposes, allowing flapless landings without that annoying voice. Other a/c have various mode inhibit switches, but no one switch inhibits all modes, unless you call the circuit breaker a switch! BTW, I don't recall ever seeing a gear override for the gpws. Gear warning horns, yes, but not gpws.

User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

Of course you can ignore the warnings,but they are loud and very annoying and there will be several modes working to get your attention,too.


"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1640 times:

That photo is cool.. Like they say.. Reach out and touch someone!

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineJabpilot From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

Low enough?
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson

Jeff

User currently offlinePHLFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Doen't anyone read the captions of pictures they put in their thread?

"Delivery arrival of the first aircraft in the new colours, making a low altitude pass above one of the runways at PMI"


User currently offlineBigmikenice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

Yeah you wish that Islandsflug shot was real. Tell me how the horizontal elevator casts a shadow, but not the rest of the plane on the ground? If it was real that plane would have you running for the port-o-potty cuz you would have just crapped your Hanes.

User currently offlineAirbus390 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

It looks like it didn't get enough wind beneath it's wings, not allowing the bird to get up with enough velocity.

User currently offlineBig777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

On December 1, 1984. I was the first passenger on Delta's Boeing 757 in Birmingham, AL. Pilots wanted to fly low pass on the runway before climb out to Atlanta.
It was fun! I never forget about the adventure first flight 757.

Big777jet



User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

The only thing I'd question is the altitude of the "low pass". The AF A320 that crashed was supposed to make a "low pass" at 100 feet, which the pilot thought he was at. He was shocked to see on the video that he was about 30 ft off the ground. Seems to me the plane in the first post is a tad lower than he should be.

User currently offlineDash8tech From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 732 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Being an NG 737 the 800 may have the capabilty of Aural Wanring override. In the CRJ 700 and Q400 you can turn off all aural warnings.

Cheers.


User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

What are you talking about?

User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

PHL you can see the shadow in that picture. take a second look!
Iain


User currently offlineRapo From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

Here's the full Islandflug sequence.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



Look how soon after t-o the gear comes up - WOW!

Me? I think it's real.

rapo


User currently offlineTurbulence From Spain, joined Nov 1999, 963 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1276 times:

Bigmikenice:
The shadow of the Islandsflug plane is not the closer black asphalt. It is a little further, and if you open the large photo and look carefully enough, you'll see the perfect shadow of the whole airplane.

Goingboeing:
The 320 that crashed was not supposed to do a low pass. Have a look at the video: it has the gear down, and a landing attitude (nose up). The low passes (exhibition ones) must be with the gears up, in order to avoid wheel contact with the ground, and for granting an optical effect. Otherwise, from afar, people would think the low pass was a "touch&go" instead. Also, low passes are flown horizontally, for pilots and tails "health".
The 320 crash was a misprogrammed autoland.

Discussions on "low passes" have been held here. The "secret", if any, for doing them is the "ground effect". The wings lift the plane, but below a minimum altitude, the airflow under the wing gets "compressed" between the wing and the ground, thus increasing lift substantially.
The next time you fly, pay attention to something: a very short while after the main gear lifts, a slight sensation of "descent" can be felt. It is the critical moment when, increasing the distance from the asphalt, the "ground effect" is lost, resulting in a slightly lesser sustemptation. As far as I understood, this is a critical moment strongly related to Vr (therefore Vr being always higher than stall speed, if I am not mistaken), and taken care of, because below a certain speed, the airplane can get airborne without being able to keep up there and fall down again. Maybe a pilot could enlighten us better about this very special moment. In that other forum, someone wrote that the airplane would be able to fly a little sooner than it really does, but it is "kept" on the ground until the lift generated by clear speed is higher than the lift generated by the combination of speed and ground effect.
This is also why Formula 1 cars carry inverted wings: they would not fly because they do not have the proper propulsion, but they would lift from ground, due to speed alone.
The Europeans will remember the Ford Sierra (predecessor of today's Ford Mondeo in Europe/Contour in USA), the 1986 model SR Cosworth, 2door version, and the huge aileron mounted on the trunk, (the 4door's aileron was quite smaller). By then I was a mechanic at the biggest Ford workshop in BCN, and drove the first one in the whole Spain. OK. Without that aileron, the Sierra Cosworth was unable to go above 180 km/h (115mph) safely because the rear wheels were loosing the capacity of solidly transmitting 220 HP to the ground...
Back to the topic, and not being too sure if I made my explanation clear enough, this ground effect is the reason why flying so low is safe: the ground effect prevents the airplane from falling lower than it is.
Back in time, there was also a post about "ekranoplanes"

See that the "thing" is not touching the water, in spite of what, the water below is waving and being sprayed. See also how small the "wings" are.

wich are boats that "sail" at 500 km/h (315 mph) or "fly" at few feet from the water, the truth being that they do not do one thing neither the other: they take advantage of ground effect.

Hope I helped...

Best turbulences


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1254 times:

Turbulence - I got my info from this site:

http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/af296.shtml

And the section entitled "The Captains Version" states:

"Captain Asseline flew the aircraft manually. He had been instructed by Air France to overfly the airfield at 100 ft above ground. When he increased throttle to level off at 100 ft, the engines did not respond. So after some seconds he got worried and thought there was something like a short-circuit in the completely computerized throttle control. So he pulled the throttle back all the way and forth again. By that time the aircraft had touched the trees.

After the accident, Captain Asseline was very astonished when he saw on an amateur video tape that the gear was only 30 ft above ground when the aircraft was passing over the runway. He affirms the altimeter of the Airbus A320 indicated 100 ft. "

I dunno, maybe that report was wrong.


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1202 times:

Those low passes still look very dangerous in my opinion


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineTurbulence From Spain, joined Nov 1999, 963 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1122 times:

Goingboeing:
I have heard and read many negative comments about airdisaster, mainly accusing them of beeing too "sensationalist" about crashes. I don't trust them too much.
But the facts are clear: compare the attitude of the airplanes of two photos above with the one of the 320 video. Do not match AT ALL.

Tbar220:
Low passes are done every while (not every day), without passengers. Writing "safe" as I did does not necessarily mean "appropriate for commercial use".

Best turbulences


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

Hell, If that Islandsflug airplane was a Piper or a Cessna I would say that he was practicing a soft field takeoff.

For those of you not in the know, for a soft field takeoff you hold the stick back untill you get airborne, Not at a set airspeed. This lightens the weight on the tires as quickly as possible and keeps you from digging into the surface you are lifting off from.

As soon as you break the surface you push the stick slightly forway to lower the nose as you gain airspeed. This step is needed because you are right on the stall margin when you lift off with this technique.

The fastest way to do this is to get the airplane level as quickly as possible, because of ground effect increasing with airspeed the airplane will want to climb. So the nose down pitch keeps this from happening allowing the speed to come up faster.

It is pretty fun to do this when you take off.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1099 times:

Very cool photo !!! (Islandsflug)

User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1055 times:


Hi!

I remember a few years ago reading an article about a Northwest 707 making a very low flypast in a way that it flipped small airplanes that where parked in a grass runway, that was really not a low but a "mow" flypast!!!
I think with a 737 it makes a nice effect but it doen'st really put your addrenaline pumping, with a 707 or a widebody I would like to experience that!!
Regards


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1026 times:

The a/c was on its delivery to AEA and so flew along the length of Palma's runway 24R I think. This is customary with every new a/c arriving in Spain I believe.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
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