PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Posted (5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9387 times:
Wow! Part four already!
Welcome to our fourth thread, and presumably, the last one of 2012!
We have had a nice discussion since the first thread was made in July.
Some talking points:
BA Starting daily flights last week
Now that this merger is presumably in full swing, what's going to happen?
G4 and AZA
Here is the list we have been working on since the last thread. I have updated it since you guys posted your replies. In regards to AS, I have included both the 9ER and 900 as part of its service to PHX.
AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735 (seasonal), 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D
CARGO:
A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain
EM Cessna 208B
FX Boeing 722F (seasonal) Airbus A300F, A310F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
5X Airbus A300F, Boeing 752F, 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9153 times:
I forgot who but someone said that the WN 735 is summer seasonal, but this flight I found on Flightaware is still operating as a 735 and has been for a while:
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9056 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 3): Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p
There are plenty of open gates that VX could use already, I suspect the biggest reason they haven't started flying here is the amount of competition on both LAX-PHX and SFO-PHX that's in place.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9049 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 4): There are plenty of open gates that VX could use already, I suspect the biggest reason they haven't started flying here is the amount of competition on both LAX-PHX and SFO-PHX that's in place.
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 3): Maybe if a merger does happen,sommaybe e gate space will clear up and make space for VX :p
What's the whole attraction with VX? Last I checked that airline was in hot water...what kind of routes could they operate out of here?
Quoting 4holer (Reply 2): Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.
Anyone have recent photos? PHXSpotters didn't post anything recently.
mach2is2slowAZ From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8987 times:
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.
I'm assuming the list is what flies out of PHX, but I am unfortunately too lazy to look at the last thread to know for sure. Anyway. UAL uses B73G and B738 (not mentioned), but I haven't seen any -500s in a while aside from the occasional IAH run since there are fewer than a dozen left in the fleet these days. Having said that, I could be full of crap. Although I can vouch for the -800 because one took me to IAD on Saturday. They ran a few B753s a week a few months back if I recall correctly.
I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.
Also, I'm pretty sure SWA uses B735 year round. They only have 15 or 20 floating around so they aren't as prevalent as in the past, but they're still around. SWA generally doesn't seasonally do much of anything with their fleet, but that may start changing with the -800. I don't fly them so I don't really care.
Happily the theme of my post until now appears to be about dying airplanes, so I'll move on..
When I got to T2 around 8am Saturday, I found a nice surprise (considering PHX typically boasts remarkably unsurprising traffic). The fairly routine bit was that UAL had a chartered B764 (the Lions, I assume) parked just west of T2 where UA always parks, so neat-o. The noteworthy bit is that at 6A and 6B (or however the hell that PMCO charlie fox of a gate area is numbered) was the UA retro A320 parked next to the CO 75th B739. I'm guessing those two aren't parked side-by-side too often, so it did provide a brief distraction before returning to my search for coffee.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8972 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 6): I don't think we get any 727s here at PHX anymore, FX typically is all MD-10s A300s or MD-11s.
Quoting 4holer (Reply 2): Are we still seeing FedEx 722s at all? They have been pulling them from the fleet and don't know where they are still going.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8): I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.
The operating pattern has been a little sketchy, but we've had a 727 here about 12 times in the last month. Haven't seen it in about a week though. Usually comes up from TUS and goes out to AFW.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1): I forgot who but someone said that the WN 735 is summer seasonal, but this flight I found on Flightaware is still operating as a 735 and has been for a while:
From the last thread, that was for UA, not WN:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 246): UA - B735 appears to be summer seasonal
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (5 months 2 days ago) and read 8927 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7): With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.
It should pick up soon with the Amazon center in the west valley.
On Saturday UPS had a MD-11 and A-300, FX had MD-11 and MD-10 in the mix.
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 9): After all these years, we'll probably see VX in Ch.7 court before we see them in PHX.
Agree, the only way I can see VX surviving is for them to be acquired by someone else. That being said, I do not see a long life for VX.
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8908 times:
I wish there was a way to get to Sfo from phx.
Oh wait there is! Withn UA, WN, and US only an idiot would start another route on this highly competitive, highly served route. VX has no place/ need here
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8863 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7): With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.
Evergreen is bringing in a B742 from SDF today, its flight EIA2856 and is scheduled to land at 4:12PM MST.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8827 times:
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8): I'm assuming the list is what flies out of PHX, but I am unfortunately too lazy to look at the last thread to know for sure.
Yep in and out of PHX
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8): I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.
Ok I'll scratch them off.
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7): With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.
I keep checking flightaware but I see nothing of the odd. I saw a 5X MD-11 last week though which was odd to me.
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 9): After all these years, we'll probably see VX in Ch.7 court before we see them in PHX.
That's my expectation.
Quoting wn676 (Reply 10): From the last thread, that was for UA, not WN:
Ok I'll edit the list later.
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 13): G4 announced St Cloud Minnesota to Gateway. Should do quite well
Very nice addition! Maybe G4 can do some east coast cities.
What's it like at AZA with G4? Can airlines connect here or is it all purely O&D?
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8798 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15): Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 8):
I haven't seen a FDX B722 in a long time so you can probably scratch that off. They're only going to have a handful over the next couple of years as they get replaced.
Again, they still continue to show up every year around this time.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15): I saw a 5X MD-11 last week though which was odd to me.
They've been running up to 5 daily MD-11s since right after Thanksgiving, in addition to their other flights. Last Thursday they had 12 total movements and FDX had I think about 10 or 11. Very busy down there.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2844 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8766 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 14): Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 7):
With about 9 days left until Christmas anyone know when the heavy metal will start flying into PHX again for the last minute holiday cargo rush? Last year we had 2 to 3 747s per day leading up to Dec 25th. Evergreen N482EV and National Airlines N919CA along with the daily BA flight.
Evergreen is bringing in a B742 from SDF today, its flight EIA2856 and is scheduled to land at 4:12PM MST.
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8654 times:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 10): The operating pattern has been a little sketchy, but we've had a 727 here about 12 times in the last month. Haven't seen it in about a week though. Usually comes up from TUS and goes out to AFW.
Apparently the part of my post saying that I'm full of crap proved correct (nothing new there). I always notice the Coyotes 727 so maybe that distracts me from the ones from FDX. Unfortunately it sounds like they may only be around for another year or two before they're all retired...sad, but they've gotta be expensive as hell to run.
mach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (5 months 19 hours ago) and read 8654 times:
It would be cool to start a heavy tracking page into PHX for the next few days so that we can all keep track of what's coming and when they are leaving. It's pretty cool to watch the 747s and even the MD11s departing from PHX to the East from Chandler. They look like they are barely moving and it seems to take a long time for them to climb out. When they depart to the West sometime they get routed right over Chandler and circle back to the North.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 30, posted (5 months 18 hours ago) and read 8649 times:
Man I've got to get out to PHX soon before all the cargo heavies are done for the season. I would love to get a picture of an Evergreen 742 landing between 4-5PM, when the light is perfect for arrivals from the east.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 31, posted (5 months 18 hours ago) and read 8642 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 30): Man I've got to get out to PHX soon before all the cargo heavies are done for the season. I would love to get a picture of an Evergreen 742 landing between 4-5PM, when the light is perfect for arrivals from the east.
I didn't see anything on Flightaware today unfortunately
Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 29): It would be cool to start a heavy tracking page into PHX for the next few days so that we can all keep track of what's coming and when they are leaving
I second that but PHXSpotters on FB was supposed to apparently do that, but they didn't for the Atlas flight this morning....
If you guys catch anything interesting coming inbound, post it here, I guess
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (5 months 17 hours ago) and read 8620 times:
OK, This got me wondering what the frequencies of cargo aircraft was at PHX, so I complied a list of arrivals from 00:00 today until now using Flightaware.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 34, posted (5 months 17 hours ago) and read 8631 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 33): Also who uses the callsign, "Company"? I have heard it in the past, but have been unable to find who uses it.
When ATC uses the word "Company" they are telling the flight crew they are fallowing another one of their company's aircraft, like a US plane fallowing another US plane.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (5 months 17 hours ago) and read 8605 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 34): When ATC uses the word "Company" they are telling the flight crew they are fallowing another one of their company's aircraft, like a US plane fallowing another US plane.
Thanks, I was trying to deduce this for the longest time.
SiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 367 posts, RR: 1 Reply 36, posted (5 months 17 hours ago) and read 8611 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 33): Also who uses the callsign, "Company"? I have heard it in the past, but have been unable to find who uses it.
When ATC refers to "Company," it simply means that they are also speaking to another aircraft of the same airline. For example; "UPS834 follow behind company MD-11." Meaning that the said MD-11 is also UPS. Does this make sense?
Quoting wn676 (Reply 37): Depending on the time of year, sure. Between January and mid-November, there was a grand total of one that came through here in March.
excuse the self-plug and quality again but there was another that flew over ASU earlier today when it was actually light outside
Ignore the self-plug again, and the excessive wind noise.....rather, enjoy it because I doubt I'll ever do anything like this in this pathetic weather again!
I just needed a break from dealing with my crazy ex girlfriend
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12556 posts, RR: 64 Reply 45, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8371 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): Here is the list we have been working on since the last thread. I have updated it since you guys posted your replies. In regards to AS, I have included both the 9ER and 900 as part of its service to PHX.
AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735 (seasonal), 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D
Let's hear it for T2 getting all the 739/739ER love at PHX!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
mach2is2slowAZ From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8332 times:
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21): Apparently the part of my post saying that I'm full of crap proved correct (nothing new there). I always notice the Coyotes 727 so maybe that distracts me from the ones from FDX. Unfortunately it sounds like they may only be around for another year or two before they're all retired...sad, but they've gotta be expensive as hell to run.
A few days back there was talk about 727s flying into PHX. A Capital Cargo ( Cappy) 727 came in last night at 12:07am from BFI. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCI969
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 48, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8317 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47): Soon T-3 when DL gets their 739s
Their fine at T2, I like T3 the way it is with all the 757s.
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
osubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 189 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8252 times:
Horrible in the spring when they have one belt open for the red-eyes. I've experienced the worst of it when there was a 767-300 sub and a 757-300 on the same night a year or two ago. Line is so long.
Love it I am not a quality-guy when it comes to rarities.
Someone should snag a video next time he's in town. Unfortunately, I'm back in Ohio for the holidays.
I wish I joined and started this thread sooner. The day before I joined Airliners, the 787 came to town, and before I began the thread, we had a upgauge to DTW on a 744, as well as a JL 77W Charter and an Atlas 744 charter (the SonAir one that usually flies out of IAH)
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2844 posts, RR: 11 Reply 59, posted (4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8062 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowAZ (Reply 58): He should fly over head since this approach typically brings them over Chandler a 8000 feet. I hope to get a shot of his 45 deg approch to base.
Yup, just watched. Would have liked to see it flying a little lower, but any 747 is a good 747!
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 64, posted (4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7938 times:
Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 63): Interesting. Looks like a repo to me.
Could be. It originated in HNL and flew in yesterday as well under the same flight number. Routing looks to be SDF-NHL-KOA with a tag back to PHX for a trip to SDF. If it flew from SDF to HNL originally, couldn't it make it from KOA to SDF if it was loaded? I'm saying this as if it flew into PHX for a fuel stop.
Any flights being delayed/diverted to PHX because of snow in the midwest ?
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 67, posted (4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7830 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 64):
Could be. It originated in HNL and flew in yesterday as well under the same flight number. Routing looks to be SDF-NHL-KOA with a tag back to PHX for a trip to SDF. If it flew from SDF to HNL originally, couldn't it make it from KOA to SDF if it was loaded? I'm saying this as if it flew into PHX for a fuel stop.
Any flights being delayed/diverted to PHX because of snow in the midwest ?
According to Boeing.com
"In the freighter mode, the MD-11CF can carry 197,400 pounds (89,540 kg) of cargo up to 5,235 statute miles (8,415 km)."
According to the great circle mapper the HNL - SDF would be 4,383mi, so in theory it could make it, but I do not know if they are using PHX as a top-off location or if that they just want an extra layer of safety for their flight. If they offload the weight of fuel, they can carry more cargo and this could be another possibility. I have ordered flowers form Hawai'i and they flew from KOA to SDF directly, but this was also in October.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 68, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7802 times:
Emirates Skycargo 747-400F is en-route to PHX. Flight is GTI9731. Estimated arrival is 12:47PM. N415MC.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 71, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7696 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 68): Emirates Skycargo 747-400F is en-route to PHX. Flight is GTI9731. Estimated arrival is 12:47PM. N415MC.
Quoting wn676 (Reply 70): Great seeing the EK colors here today! Here it is departing to PHL:
Hot damn! I can't believe I am missing all the action in Phoenix this week! Stuck in Ohio till the 30th
By the way, if you guys haven't noticed, PHXSpotters has recently tapped me as an "admin" for their Facebook page, so you'll be seeing a lot of relays from them on here, and vice versa. I hope you guys hop on over to FB and "like" their page! I know Treebeard and wn76 are active members of the group.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 73, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7467 times:
Is it possible for FLG to ever get any new service? not even on eagle?
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 75, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7451 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 74): I doubt it as there is not the load needed from PHX to FLG. Other than NAU students and then that is only when school is in session.
This route is going to die when the TUC-PHX-FLG high-speed train goes into effect, as the rumors continually say
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 74):I doubt it as there is not the load needed from PHX to FLG. Other than NAU students and then that is only when school is in session.
This route is going to die when the TUC-PHX-FLG high-speed train goes into effect, as the rumors continually say
In that case it should be safe for the next couple of hundred years PHX-TUC has been discussed for the past 20 years at least, with practically zero progress. Can't recall PHX-FLG been discussed, the topographic and geographic challenges are very significant.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 77, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7317 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 76): In that case it should be safe for the next couple of hundred years PHX-TUC has been discussed for the past 20 years at least, with practically zero progress. Can't recall PHX-FLG been discussed, the topographic and geographic challenges are very significant.
They have been talking about the PHX-TUC train for a long time, but they need to put down a whole new set of tracks because the ones that run between Phoenix and Tucson cannot handle the train's speed. I have never heard of a plan to go to Flag with the rail as the terrain is not conducive to such a mode of transportation as well as there would be very little demand.
Inter-state travel in Arizona is not that big of a draw due to the fact that we all have vehicles. With that being said, I did fly between TUC and PHX when I was younger and love it, but it was only like a 30 minute flight.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 78, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7280 times:
Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 79, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7227 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78): Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?
The top at the east or west end?
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
DFWneedsQF From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7187 times:
Did anyone see the World MD-11. I almost was run off the road by cops trying to escort the charter buses full of what I assume were football players. Any more info?
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 81, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7176 times:
I can tell you for a fact that every OO 200 is close to sold or over booked. Things get interesting when they shut down FLG and you have 4-5 flts canceled
Horizon tried to connect to LAX but was short lived.
I'd like to see service to the Grand Canyon again.... Gone are those days of 737s and even the dc9s from the flying banana etc
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 83, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7166 times:
Would another turboprop operator ever come into and serve PHX or even take a risk on IWA and bid for either EaS routes or open new ones/ fly under the express/connection banner of someone
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 84, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7142 times:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 79): The top at the east or west end?
Both, I tried from the west and east and they had it coned off and signs stating that you needed a badge to get up to the top.
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 81):
I'd like to see service to the Grand Canyon again.... Gone are those days of 737s and even the dc9s from the flying banana etc
I thought US did have a flight up to the South Rim, but stopped it pretty quick as it was not very profitable.
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 83): Would another turboprop operator ever come into and serve PHX or even take a risk on IWA and bid for either EaS routes or open new ones/ fly under the express/connection banner of someone
If there is a demand for the flight then someone would/will fill the spot. I wounder if Great Lakes would take that flight, but I think that they would need womething bigger than 1900's
Quoting SANFan (Reply 82): Ummmmm, FYI, Tucson's code is "TUS".
Cactus742 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7094 times:
Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 87, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7080 times:
Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 86): Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?
It was an A320. First time I've ever seen those foam nozzles actually put to use.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 88, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7090 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78):
Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?
The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 89, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7031 times:
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 88): The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.
OK, thanks. I was wondering if it was due to the season and wanting to give employees a place to park closer to the terminal. Do you know if they will open up the upper decks once they are done rewiring the garage?
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 90, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7036 times:
Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 86): Just saw on the news that there was a plane on fire at Sky Harbor. Looked like a US A319. That Could be what's causing the problems around the airport. Anyone have any details?
Quoting wn676 (Reply 87): It was an A320. First time I've ever seen those foam nozzles actually put to use.
"The tail of a U.S. Airways plane at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport caught on fire Monday evening, forcing the evacuation of its crew, officials said.
Fire officials were dispatched to Terminal 4 to investigate a possible fuel leak in the aircraft and came upon a small fire in the back of the plane, which fire crews put out, according to Phoenix Fire spokesman Jonathan Jacobs. Flight 504 was scheduled to take off from Phoenix for Vancouver.
Passengers were reportedly boarding when the fire ignited, but US Airways spokeswoman Michelle Mohr later said there were no passengers on the plane. The two pilots and three crew members were evacuated as a precaution, Mohr said.
Jacobs said no one was injured, and that the fire apparently began in the auxiliary power unit of the craft. Mohr described it as a small motor under the plane’s tail that supplies additional power.
The passengers were scheduled to be re-routed to another flight about two hours later, US Airways said."
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 91, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6968 times:
Merry Christmas all
I'll be back in the valley on the 30th.
Quoting DFWneedsQF (Reply 80): Did anyone see the World MD-11. I almost was run off the road by cops trying to escort the charter buses full of what I assume were football players. Any more info?
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 78): Does anyone know why the top of the parking garage of T-3 is now restricted to people with badges? I tried to go spotting there, but I discovered this little change. Is this seasonal?
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 81): I can tell you for a fact that every OO 200 is close to sold or over booked. Things get interesting when they shut down FLG and you have 4-5 flts canceled
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 88): The parking garage is getting "rewired". They are starting up on levels five and six and working their way down. It was restricted to people with badges because the roof top parking on level 5 is for terminal employees only.
When was this? I went to the top of 3 last week and had no issues.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 94, posted (4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6741 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 89): OK, thanks. I was wondering if it was due to the season and wanting to give employees a place to park closer to the terminal. Do you know if they will open up the upper decks once they are done rewiring the garage?
Yeah, the levels upper levels will reopen. The upper levels are usually for employees. All sorts of employees us the T3 garage, even some US employees park there.
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 95, posted (4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6730 times:
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 94): Yeah, the levels upper levels will reopen. The upper levels are usually for employees. All sorts of employees us the T3 garage, even some US employees park there.
Whatever happened to the Mojave Employee Parking lot and one other lot I cannot remember it's name.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 96, posted (4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6719 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 95): Whatever happened to the Mojave Employee Parking lot and one other lot I cannot remember it's name.
Tonto East? We got moved out of there in summer '09 when the city closed the lot and sent to South Mojave. Then the city closed that lot in summer '11 and we got split between East Economy and T2 Upper.
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wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 98, posted (4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6598 times:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 97): I heard someone on the Employee...err East Economy Shuttle saying employees are getting moved once the SkyTrain is running.
Yep, they built a new surface lot out at 44th/Washington. They've been soliciting for an initial group to move out there. Eventually I've heard they'll build a multi-story garage and move all employees out there over the next couple years.
Word around here is that the train will open on January 8th...
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AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 99, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6558 times:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 96): Tonto East? We got moved out of there in summer '09 when the city closed the lot and sent to South Mojave. Then the city closed that lot in summer '11 and we got split between East Economy and T2 Upper.
What are they using these lots for now? Are they sitting bare and vacant at the moment?
Why can't they do what DEN is doing: Airside Parking and Landside parking.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 100, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6501 times:
I don't know. They probably are sitting bare and vacant. I know the old rental car lots off 24th street and FedEx and ups are storing trailers over there
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 101, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6448 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 99): What are they using these lots for now? Are they sitting bare and vacant at the moment?
Yep, bare and vacant for the most part. Tonto East got resurfaced and re-striped about a year ago. Don't know why they would spend all that money after closing it. I noticed there seemed to be some bus driver training going on in Mojave a few days ago as well.
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PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 102, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6479 times:
I got booted once from the lot at the end of 26 near 24th street by the fuzz while I was spotting. Its strange because I typically saw spotters there too.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 103, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6468 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 102):
I got booted once from the lot at the end of 26 near 24th street by the fuzz while I was spotting. Its strange because I typically saw spotters there too.
Yeah they seem to not like people over in that spot anymore. It's good for a quick shot if you know specifically what you want to get.
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aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 106, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6337 times:
OK, I have lived in Phoenix for a LONG time and have been here when it snowed, but I would of never thought that PHX would of had De-icing equipment.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 107, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6314 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 106): OK, I have lived in Phoenix for a LONG time and have been here when it snowed, but I would of never thought that PHX would of had De-icing equipment.
They've always had deicing equipment...it's called sunshine!
Both WN and US have trucks, I'm not sure about the others though. They were out doing frost removal again this morning.
[Edited 2012-12-29 12:23:10]
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SiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 367 posts, RR: 1 Reply 108, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6283 times:
Delta 330-300 on the ground now, came in from LAX earlier today after taking some Badgers fans from MSN for the Rose Bowl. United 772 also coming in tonight from SFO with ASU.
PSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6234 times:
A Lancair IV-P with three people aboard crashed near San Diego this morning killing all on board. The plane departed Montgomery Field (KMYF) and was enroute to Phoenix Deer Valley Airport (KDVT). The FAA has withheld the aircraft registration until next of kin are notified.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 110, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6224 times:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 107): They've always had deicing equipment...it's called sunshine!
PSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 112, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6060 times:
The three people killed in the crash of a Lancair IV-P just outside San Diego have been identified as 65 year old William Stern, Jr. (President of Stern Produce), his wife Jennifer (53) and daughter Katelyn (19).
The aircraft N5M was built in 2003 and it appears that Mr. Stern bought the homebuilt craft in July 2011.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 113, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6039 times:
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 114, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 113): That's what Mesa uses. I remember one morning we were deicing planes on the mainline side until almost 9AM... let's just say Express had a bad day.
You know what? Who is actually doing the de-icing? is there a special crew? Or is it just the ground guys? Because at airports like PHX I wouldn't expect anyone to have a specialized de-icing crew that ONLY does de-icing.
This morning at CVG we waited for god knows how long for a crew to get into the trucks and then waited much longer than usual for them to de-ice the CRJ.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 115, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6028 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 114): You know what? Who is actually doing the de-icing? is there a special crew? Or is it just the ground guys? Because at airports like PHX I wouldn't expect anyone to have a specialized de-icing crew that ONLY does de-icing.
Serviceair was doing the US Airways aircraft using US Air equipment. WN has one of their own de-icing trucks that they were using.
Boston From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 14 posts, RR: 0 Reply 116, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5917 times:
Does anyone know how much it's costing DL per day to park that A330 at PHX? In MT where I used to work airport ops, it didn't cost much to park an airplane, but I don't know how much it costs a heavy aircraft at a major airport like PHX.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 117, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5855 times:
OK who is doing the charters for the Fiesta Bowl? If you guys got any info, post it here or on the PHX Spotters page! I wanna do some spotting finally I missed all of the good stuff while in Ohio
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 118, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5819 times:
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 119, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5745 times:
Happy New Year to you guys!
It's been a fun year and I'm really happy to see the contributions to this thread. I have a feeling that by the end of this month we'll be in our 5th thread!
It's a big year for me personally....a big month, actually. I learn on the 29th if my transfer to Japan is finalized or not. If indeed I am going to transfer, my departure from Phoenix will be on March 12, and etween the 29th of this month and March 12, I will be busier than hell trying to sell my stuff here and bringing stuff back to my parents' house in Ohio....so it's going to be busy for me, and I hope you guys step up and fill in for me while I am gone. One of the guys over at PHX Spotters say that he really enjoys the enthusiasm I put into this thread, and I hope you guys contribute more as my contributions begin to fade a bit...but only a bit! I'll definitely still be around, as I said!
While in Japan, I will of course be continuing the thread, as I enjoy staying on top of goings-on out here. I'll also be sharing some photos and what-not from Japan
If you guys are interested in adding my personal facebook please feel free to drop me a P.M. and I'll send you the link....or if you already know me from the PHX Spotters FB page go ahead and add me. I have albums full of aviation photos (that aren't necessarily A.net worthy )
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 120, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5719 times:
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 121, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5721 times:
Silly me looks like there is 2 of them
Here is the second flight
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 122, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5711 times:
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 124, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5702 times:
I have a question about the WN flights. I do not remember WN being that big of a charter provider. Is this a change that has just recently occurred?
I would like to see what people biggest predictions for PHX for 2013.....
I predict that the US/AA merger do not happen due to labor issues. Parker becomes prosona non grada at all events in Tempe and Phoenix. (Hey, one can hope)
HA will start the transition to the A330 from PHX when they change their gate. Hopefully before December of 2013 so that I will be taking that while vacationing on the Big Island for Christmas
SiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 367 posts, RR: 1 Reply 125, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5672 times:
WN does a fair amount of charter flying mostly for fans during the bowl season. And for some teams during the regular season. We also do alot of military flying all year round. It's a department that WN is really starting develop, later this year there is hope the -800 is going to be marketed for charter customers.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 126, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5643 times:
Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 125): WN does a fair amount of charter flying mostly for fans during the bowl season. And for some teams during the regular season. We also do alot of military flying all year round. It's a department that WN is really starting develop, later this year there is hope the -800 is going to be marketed for charter customers.
Thank you for the information. I was under the idea that the business plan that WN uses has their planes at optimal usage most of the time and would not allow for much charter work. Do they use any available plane or do they try to use planes that could be flexible. I noticed all the planes coming in from Kansas were 700's and I also could imagine that WN really did not mind to much that the panes were coming into PHX as they could rotate them into the cycles really easily.
SiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 367 posts, RR: 1 Reply 127, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5614 times:
We usually deploy charters from one of our mx bases, there is enough slack in the fleet to cover all this flying given the time of year. Both -300s and -700s are used as charters, no - 500s or -800s (yet). 137 seats are marketed because not all -700s have been converted to the new 143 seat configuration. Also, keep in mind flightaware does not always show the difference between the -300 and -700 for whatever reason. Often times they are listed as -300 but is actually operated by a -700. It's a glitch with the website.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 128, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5609 times:
Wouldnt it of been cheaper for them just to get one/two large planes instead of 4 -700s?
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5597 times:
More WN flights/charters came in today from EUG on top of the few that came in 2 days ago. Also, looks like G4 sent a flight to PHX rather than to IWA.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 130, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5582 times:
Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 127): We usually deploy charters from one of our mx bases, there is enough slack in the fleet to cover all this flying given the time of year. Both -300s and -700s are used as charters, no - 500s or -800s (yet). 137 seats are marketed because not all -700s have been converted to the new 143 seat configuration. Also, keep in mind flightaware does not always show the difference between the -300 and -700 for whatever reason. Often times they are listed as -300 but is actually operated by a -700. It's a glitch with the website.
Thank you for the information. That is partially why I was wondering if they chose WN due to their presence in PHX. Can they still run charters during the summer months with the fleet is maxed out?
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 131, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5543 times:
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1769 posts, RR: 4 Reply 132, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5492 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 130): Can they still run charters during the summer months with the fleet is maxed out?
They often run troop charters during the summer. It's not like every plane is running a full schedule, every day, in the summer.
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 128): Wouldnt it of been cheaper for them just to get one/two large planes instead of 4 -700s?
Not necessarily. It's likely that WN came back with better per person rates than a carrier that could put everyone on a 777 or 767 or something big. Plus the company arranging the charter has to pay for the full plane, not just the seats used.
Just as an aside, these travel packages are not cheap. One package for Oregon State's trip to San Antonio cost $1200+ per person just for PDX-SAT (nonstop) charter airfare. Hotel etc all rolled in put the cost up around $2000 (for a 5 day stay, IIRC). A co-worker who is a diehard Beavs fan just cashed in AS miles and Hilton points and saved a hefty amount of money.
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 134, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5310 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 133):
Kindof an odd question, but what are the odds of FX sending a 77F into PHX instead of their MD10s and MD11s?
Low. I'm pretty sure most of them fly to Asia. They wouldn't see enough efficiency gains flying PHX-MEM to warrant a 77F. Their original order was only around 30 + 10 options or something. There isn't a huge difference in cargo capacity 77F vs MD11, so utilizing an aircraft intended for long-haul ops on a medium-haul route would be a waste.
I'm sure the FDX guys around here have more info, but I'd be willing to guess that if one does fly to PHX, it would be for a very specific reason and likely be a one-off.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 136, posted (4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5249 times:
Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 137, posted (4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5239 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 136): Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.
Most of the "PHX must die!!" nonsense is coming from idiots who never lived here or even been to PHX.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 138, posted (4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5218 times:
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 137): Most of the "PHX must die!!" nonsense is coming from idiots who never lived here or even been to PHX.
People immediately think PHX is nothing but dust storms. Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"
PHX is never going to be de-hubbed. The region is growing again, O&D is massive (all the time I hear of overbooked flights) and it's just a good facility. What the Phoenix Airport Board needs to do is upgrade the facilities for US and make sure that these facilities stay top of the line. I think improving the international gates at B would be a step- for example, providing a second jetway at B25 for 747 flights.
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 136): Ok so im asking this because its been bothering me lately,In all the threads about a US/AA merger they are saying that PHX is going to be very much downsized or cut in half,but also a merger hasnt been announced so it could just be rumers and such.But i dont entirely understand why a merged AA would want to downsize PHX just becuse of a "hub" operation in LAX.but AA's operations in LAX is like nothing, 159 flights. So to sum it all up can we really see cuts as big as what people are saying flight wise if a merger is to happen.
It's just nonsense to me. If-and I strongly say IF - PHX is de-hubbed, so many airlines will come in to fill the void. AM, DL, F9, B6, UA, WN especially, AC and HA will beef up their service.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 139, posted (4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5212 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138): Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"
When I first moved to PHX in 2002, I was so amazed on how huge that place is. It takes an hour and 15 minutes to get from IWA to Peoria! That's how big the Metro area is.
And Sky Harbor is a very beautiful airport. I miss it dearly!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 140, posted (4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138):
It's just nonsense to me. If-and I strongly say IF - PHX is de-hubbed, so many airlines will come in to fill the void. AM, DL, F9, B6, UA, WN especially, AC and HA will beef up their service.
Agree
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 138): People immediately think PHX is nothing but dust storms. Then they see photos I post and say "wow this place is huge!"
I was on top of T-4 parking garage waiting for my wife to come back from a trip two years ago and a guy from New York game up to look. We started to talk and he wanted to know where the desert was and how far would it take to get there. I told him he was in a desert and he told me I was wrong. I simply asked him what does he mean by a desert and he told me the type in Egypt with all of the sand. I laughed and said that if he wanted to travel to Yuma he could see some sand dunes, but this was the Sonoran Desert and this is what it looked like.
People that have never been to Phoenix or Arizona have no idea of the size of this city. With the population as high as it is and most flights leaving full, if they do cut some capacity it will be taken up by other airlines.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 141, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5170 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 140): With the population as high as it is and most flights leaving full, if they do cut some capacity it will be taken up by other airlines.
Exactly,All these people in the merger threads are saying is that PHX will be De-Hubbed. But im not entirely sure why a merged AA would want to back out of 40 million yearly passengers
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 142, posted (4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5163 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 141): Exactly,All these people in the merger threads are saying is that PHX will be De-Hubbed. But im not entirely sure why a merged AA would want to back out of 40 million yearly passengers
Because like everything from the East, we are nothing more than hayseeds. I could see DL, WN, HA and UA increasing at any loss of traffic due to a merger. But what to I know.
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 143, posted (4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5099 times:
First of all, PHX won't be de-hubbed like LAS after the US-HP merger, so any grumblings from the media or a.netters that PHX will be de-hubbed is just wrong. However, it will be downsized IF a merger happens, although I find it highly unlikely that it will receive regulatory approval if things even get that far.
This is where some of you will start to hate me, but I don't care..
PHX is a pretty weak hub. There, I said it. Here's why:
What does PHL and CLT have that PHX doesn't?
- Widebodies
- Actual international service (sorry, Mexico and Canada don't count)
- Growth and expansion of service to new markets
What does PHX have that PHL and CLT don't?
- Competition
- Some cactus
Why do widebodies matter? Widebodies are flagships. Flagships go to places the company cares about. Yeah, yeah...the pilot contracts (or lack thereof) complicate things, but if US wanted widebodies and TATL/TPAC flights from PHX, they would have made it happen by now. The notion that US has made anything more than a half-assed attempt at making any of this happen is a pipe dream.
Why does competition matter? US has operated from PHL and CLT for decades with almost no competition. Last I heard, they account for 85% of the traffic at CLT. Only SEVEN other carriers even serve CLT, three of which are *A partners. PHX has 15 other carriers, and direct competition with a LCC that maintains intense brand loyalty in a leisure market makes it less desirable and far less lucrative.
Even if an AA/US merger were to happen -- which I think is unlikely -- PHX would continue to be the least important hub. DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA, and ORD are markets which will always outperform PHX and already profitably serve a large number of domestic and international destinations. PHL and CLT aren't on-par with with the others, but their status as fortress hubs makes them very valuable.
If a merger happens, it won't be good for PHX. It won't be de-hubbed, but service will be cut and PHX will continue to be the redheaded stepchild.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 144, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5062 times:
I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?
I agree that for a true hub, PHX is a weaker one, but also the presence of US in anything further west is weak to non-existent. The :757 to Hawai'i is the farthest west that I believe US fly with its own metal. Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 143): What does PHX have that PHL and CLT don't?
- Competition
- Some cactus
I think you could also say, a lot more sunshine....
K-State Fans were going home this morning on a Miami Air plane.
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 145, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5014 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144): I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?
No. If US wanted to they could make it happen, even with the flight crews split. It wouldn't be the most optimal in terms of crew scheduling, but it's not holding them back from anything.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144): Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.
Of course not, a TATL flight from PHX would supplement a route already flown from PHL or CLT and would primarily handle west coast/intermountain west connecting traffic.
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wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 146, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5018 times:
Oh, almost forgot. G4 was operating a fan charter for Oregon today. The first plane (N864GA) broke and a new one (N417NV) had to be ferried in from LAS. Something you definitely don't see at Sky Harbor that often:
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dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 147, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5008 times:
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 149, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4968 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144): I could the fact that PHX is not a wide body hub like CLT and PHL come from the fact that the division of US east and west?
I agree that for a true hub, PHX is a weaker one, but also the presence of US in anything further west is weak to non-existent. The :757 to Hawai'i is the farthest west that I believe US fly with its own metal. Going east it would not make sense to move a flight from CLT or PHL to PHX and have people backtrack all the out here to get a European flight.
It's a division of east and west because they make it a division. Which is exactly why an AA merger probably won't happen. US has been in complete disarray since 2006, but if there were a desire for US to make PHX a *real* hub and if there were money to be made, pilot contracts and annoying technicalities would hardly stop them.
Fact is that US makes more money on every int'l route from PHL and CLT than they could make on routes serving PHX. The increased cost for a longer stage to/from a primarily leisure market makes it less profitable for them from the start. Only 16 aircraft in the US fleet are efficiently capable of PHX-Europe or Asia, of which two would be required to operate a single daily route (anything less than daily would fail).
Post-merger US had a strong foundation of customers from the former America West days and they had opportunities to capitalize on it. Had they attempted PHX-LHR/LGW or FRA in 2006 or 2007, it would have had a more legitimate chance of success than it does now. There were opportunities here for them, but they did what they do best and squandered them.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 144): I think you could also say, a lot more sunshine....
That too! But LAS gets plenty of sunshine and it didn't save them from decimation at the hands of US.
Quoting wn676 (Reply 145): No. If US wanted to they could make it happen, even with the flight crews split. It wouldn't be the most optimal in terms of crew scheduling, but it's not holding them back from anything.
My point exactly. If they wanted to, they would have. They've failed to make any concerted effort at making something happen, which tells me they just aren't interested.
Quoting wn676 (Reply 146): Oh, almost forgot. G4 was operating a fan charter for Oregon today. The first plane (N864GA) broke and a new one (N417NV) had to be ferried in from LAS. Something you definitely don't see at Sky Harbor that often:
Looks like IWA. Perhaps PHX's future? (kidding). I've seen them at PHX a few times, but it is rare -- a couple times on charters from Mexico and a while back when IWA had fuel issues. Great photo though...thanks for sharing!
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 150, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4913 times:
Who handled the K-State 737-800 from Miami Air this morning? I know it came from the north side, but I was shooting at 40th St area and just saw it coming down T taxiway.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 149): Fact is that US makes more money on every int'l route from PHL and CLT than they could make on routes serving PHX. The increased cost for a longer stage to/from a primarily leisure market makes it less profitable for them from the start. Only 16 aircraft in the US fleet are efficiently capable of PHX-Europe or Asia, of which two would be required to operate a single daily route (anything less than daily would fail).
That is what I was trying to get at, albeit a lot less eloquent than you. The cost was/is too high to have PHX as a gateway to Europe. Also LH pulled out when it was just BA and their selves due to lack of desire for the product. If you already have the infrastructure established in the east where it is more flexible then why not use those resources to their fullest.
Also while it is nice to have direct flight to all locations, sometimes it is not feasible or desirable.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 149): That too! But LAS gets plenty of sunshine and it didn't save them from decimation at the hands of US.
I could be wrong, but I thought that US pulled back at LAS because of WN's market share and the fact that they were not making as much as they could using the planes of different routes. It also dose not help that there are a lot of LLC's flying from the Phoenix area to LAS.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 151, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4917 times:
That sweedish guy in the other thread is a total noob
Yeah really he was pissing me off. Of course it's bias but wouldn't you expect us to know about our own airport better?
BTW- funniest thing I've read all week
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150): Also while it is nice to have direct flight to all locations, sometimes it is not feasible or desirable.
Well define 'desirable."
Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far, I'm trying to get someone to start service from here to CVG so I don't have to be a slave to DL's one-hopper system anymore
Business leaders in CVG were PISSED when they cut this route. Some of the bigger banks are trying to buy PHX service with US or WN to CVG....but I don't think they're doing enough.
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1769 posts, RR: 4 Reply 153, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4866 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152): Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far
No offense, but just because your friends support the route, does not mean the route will be profitable. Unless you happen to have 300 friends who need to fly daily between the two cities, with 100 or so of them buying full fare business/first seats.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150): It also dose not help that there are a lot of LLC's flying from the Phoenix area to LAS.
There are two airlines that fly PHX-LAS, and Allegiant that flies from Mesa. I wouldn't exactly call it "a lot." US still has a pretty robust schedule between the two places.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 154, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4862 times:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 153):
No offense, but just because your friends support the route, does not mean the route will be profitable.
I hate that word- profitable That word always comes at the expense of customer service.....
Quoting chrisair (Reply 153): Unless you happen to have 300 friends who need to fly daily between the two cities, with 100 or so of them buying full fare business/first seats.
Well the 787 in comparison between JL and NH:
NH: 42 — 180 total 222 (The International models)
46 — 112 total 158
JL: 42 — 144 total 186 (only model they have)
I think NH could fill the second international model with no issues. JL shouldn't have an issue either.
Here's the thing a lot of reports I've read have said..... people want more options between Asia and the US other than LAX, SFO, and SEA.
SAN is now an option, same with SJC. DEN soon, so why not PHX?
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 155, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4830 times:
I still think that the best option for PHX is to be the termination point of a intermediate flight from NRT like a NRT-LAX-PHX or NRT-SAN-PHX. Use this as a test market for expansion. If it proves to be a good route move to a direct NRT-PHX.
The problem with PHX is people think it is still a small city. We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming. We have companies coming to Phoenix metro area all of the time. As a person that has lived here for 40 years, I have seen the ebbs and flows in the size of Phoenix. While I can see that there is more market demand here from people, how much that can translate into service is unknown.
The really funny thing is when you look at the population difference between Las Vegas (1.6 million) and Phoenix (4.7 million) and the growth over the last 10 years LAS 36.9% and PHX 33%. When discussing thing with people they cannot give a good explanation on why hub exist at places that they always have. Once it is established they very rarely go away. Cleveland and Philly are the same distance apart as PHX and LAX, but they would never think that these are redundant hubs.
EricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 156, posted (4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4819 times:
In defense of the Sweedish noob, his comments pertained to the survival of the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network. This is a very different situation than saying the city of PHX cannot support a hub (which we all know it can, including Mark).
The problem with the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network is that it is wedged between LAX and DFW. The question to ask yourself is what connecting traffic flows can only be served by the PHX hub. Then ask yourself whether these few connecting traffic flows that can only be handled by PHX warrant the existence of the hub. Keep in mind hubs are costly and profitability means more than whether the combined carrier can fly a passenger from a select few points around the southwest (ie. ELP-SLC or TUS-GJT).
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 157, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4768 times:
Quoting EricR (Reply 156): The problem with the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network is that it is wedged between LAX and DFW. The question to ask yourself is what connecting traffic flows can only be served by the PHX hub. Then ask yourself whether these few connecting traffic flows that can only be handled by PHX warrant the existence of the hub. Keep in mind hubs are costly and profitability means more than whether the combined carrier can fly a passenger from a select few points around the southwest (ie. ELP-SLC or TUS-GJT).
That is the problem is that, in a US/AA combined market, PHX is redundant and in the middle of their strongholds of LAX and DFW. I also look at it this way, if US/AA dose reduce its service from PHX, WN, DL and UA will take up the slack. I think that the biggest winner would be WN.
Hubs
DL- SLC
UA - SFO, LAX, IAH (This would put PHX in the same situation as with AA/US)
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 158, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4758 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 157): That is the problem is that, in a US/AA combined market, PHX is redundant and in the middle of their strongholds of LAX and DFW. I also look at it this way, if US/AA dose reduce its service from PHX, WN, DL and UA will take up the slack. I think that the biggest winner would be WN.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 157): Hubs
DL- SLC
UA - SFO, LAX, IAH (This would put PHX in the same situation as with AA/US)
Wait a second here:
UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.
LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 159, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4710 times:
Quoting wn676 (Reply 148): Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 147):
Great pictures, I was surpised to see that US was handling them...
I was too. Thought Servisair would have picked that up. Or that anti ground handling DL...
haha, I recall saying something on instagram about that hmm.....
Speaking of servisair, the past couple nights HA has been parked on gate 26 on T3 north and after the plane lands it will sit 10 to 15 minutes waiting for a crew to park it.... that is unacceptable
You never know... Maybe they will do a split operation like what G4 had in SFB and MCO....
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152): I'm trying to get someone to start service from here to CVG so I don't have to be a slave to DL's one-hopper system anymore
The route will be back for spring training.. I think a daily DCI flight would work like the daily 9E flight to MEM but I just throw bags what do I know.
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 160, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4704 times:
LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.
I don't see a problem.
Yes, but US/AA would need and want to keep PHX at the level it is now. There would have to be come redundancy in the AA and US flights in PHX. To have major presence/hubs in LAX, PHX and DFW I think is too much.
This being said, I still have my doubts that there will even be a merger between US and AA. The longer the time in bankruptcy court and showing the creditors and the courts that they can turn a profit without a US presence.
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1423 posts, RR: 9 Reply 161, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4691 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152): Of course it's bias but wouldn't you expect us to know about our own airport better?
No, I wouldn't. There are a lot of people here who do a lot of data analysis, planning, and other work for airlines or aviation consultants. At your urging in the JAL thread, I've read through this thread and it is rife with speculation based on less important numbers (such as total airport throughput and metro population) and anecdotal evidence such as what your "contacts" say while ignoring fares, yields, actual market demand, etc. The fact that people here have a specific interest in PHX doesn't mean they know better than people who have a specific knowledge of the industry.
Quoting EricR (Reply 156):
In defense of the Sweedish noob, his comments pertained to the survival of the PHX hub in a combined AA/US network. This is a very different situation than saying the city of PHX cannot support a hub (which we all know it can, including Mark).
In further defense, he is one of the more knowledgeable members on a.net and has demonstrated considerable knowledge of international markets as well as American Airlines. I don't think Mark is suggesting PHX can't support a hub, he may instead acknowledge that it is currently supporting TWO hubs (let's not forget WN), and a combined AA/US may not fight it out with WN for market share if they can handle volume through DFW and LAX while just keeping enough service to maintain the high-yield traffic at PHX.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155): The problem with PHX is people think it is still a small city. We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming. We have companies coming to Phoenix metro area all of the time. As a person that has lived here for 40 years, I have seen the ebbs and flows in the size of Phoenix. While I can see that there is more market demand here from people, how much that can translate into service is unknown.
I don't think anybody thinks Phoenix is a small city, but if you're going to site Phoenix based on its metro population of 4.7 million people, you should at least acknowledge that it is the 14th largest metro area (barely behind Seattle-Tacoma) as opposed to the 8th largest city. There is plenty of market at Phoenix, but it has a distinct domestic tilt and hasn't had the greatest international yields.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155): Cleveland and Philly are the same distance apart as PHX and LAX, but they would never think that these are redundant hubs.
Many people do think that CLE is a redundant hub to ORD and EWR (better comps since they are hubs for the same airline), but part of the difference is that the population in the eastern portion of the country is far more dense. There isn't nearly as much population base between PHX and DFW as there is between CLE and EWR, for example. Regardless, I think a lot of people would concede that PHX will maintain a hub the size of CLE (or likely larger) in a combined AA/US, so I'm not sure that comp demonstrates much of a point.
LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.
I don't see a problem.
PHX is no SFO or LAX, even you have to admit that. Yields and O&D traffic are clearly higher out of both metro areas, and that's especially true when it comes to international demand. PHX would likely maintain a place in a combined network, but not the same prominence.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 162, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4679 times:
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 159): Speaking of servisair, the past couple nights HA has been parked on gate 26 on T3 north and after the plane lands it will sit 10 to 15 minutes waiting for a crew to park it.... that is unacceptable
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1769 posts, RR: 4 Reply 163, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4658 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155): We are the 8th largest city in the nation with a population booming.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4716 posts, RR: 15 Reply 164, posted (4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4651 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 155): I still think that the best option for PHX is to be the termination point of a intermediate flight from NRT like a NRT-LAX-PHX or NRT-SAN-PHX. Use this as a test market for expansion. If it proves to be a good route move to a direct NRT-PHX.
On several occasions I've mentioned (on this thread) that foreign flags very rarely do US tag-ons any more. (I can't think of any in place now. Can anyone?) They are simply not economically feasible -- or necessary -- any more.
PHX tagged onto LAX, SFO, or even SAN is not going to happen. (I assume you've noticed that none of the many cx serving TYO-LAX/SFO apparently has thought this to be a viable option to serve the Asia-PHX market -- whatever it may be...)
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 165, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 164):
On several occasions I've mentioned (on this thread) that foreign flags very rarely do US tag-ons any more. (I can't think of any in place now. Can anyone?) They are simply not economically feasible -- or necessary -- any more.
PR had a YVR-LAS tag for awhile but I believe they stopped it. KE in the past served LAS from ICN as a tag on from LAX but its now a non-stop from ICN. I want to say that there was a NRT-LAX-LAS tag before too. The only one I know is still being flown today is QF LAX-JFK run, but you can't book it from LAX you have to start at SYD or JFK. I do agree with you however, a tag-on in today's market isn't viable, certainly not so for the small PHX-NRT market size.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 166, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4716 posts, RR: 15 Reply 168, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4533 times:
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 165): PR had a YVR-LAS tag for awhile but I believe they stopped it. KE in the past served LAS from ICN as a tag on from LAX but its now a non-stop from ICN. I want to say that there was a NRT-LAX-LAS tag before too. The only one I know is still being flown today is QF LAX-JFK run, but you can't book it from LAX you have to start at SYD or JFK. I do agree with you however, a tag-on in today's market isn't viable, certainly not so for the small PHX-NRT market size.
The PR tag between YVR and Vegas was a bit different as PR could carry local traffic over the segment (although it was limited.) You're absolutely right about QF; that's been around so long that I forgot about it.
There certainly have been many in the past, including PHX-SAN on Speedbird years ago. With the economics of today, plus all the alliances and marketing arrangements in place, it would be unnecessary as well as a major waste of $$ for a foreign flag to fly a nearly-empty jet (due to no local traffic rights) on a relatively short segment within the US.
mach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 169, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4526 times:
I was in El Paso over the Holidays and spotted this AN-124 at Biggs Army Air Field. Not the best quaity because we were driving as the photos where taken. Note the C-17 that is parked next to and behind the 124. This is not KPHX related but I wanted to share.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 170, posted (4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4488 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 169): I was in El Paso over the Holidays and spotted this AN-124 at Biggs Army Air Field. Not the best quaity because we were driving as the photos where taken. Note the C-17 that is parked next to and behind the 124. This is not KPHX related but I wanted to share.
allegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 172, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4327 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 171): Acc to the oag thread UA is adding another flight to PHX soon
mach2is2slowaz From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 175, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4202 times:
Based on flight aware data there are already 23 flights a day between Untied, USairways, Frontier and Southwest. Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 177, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4205 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 175): Based on flight aware data there are already 23 flights a day between Untied, USairways, Frontier and Southwest. Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?
I don't know the numbers, but every time I have flown up to DEN the flight is usually full. UA has used 752s on the route and currently has a 739 on one of the frequencies. PHX-DEN is one of the most popular routes out of PHX in terms of passengers and available flights. There have been 3-4 airlines serving the route daily for close to a decade now.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 178, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
I guess it depends on what B6 operations are doing since both airlines share a gate... But I heard that the HA A330 will start service to PHX next year
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
93Sierra From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 179, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4143 times:
Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21 and things got interesting the other night with westjet coming in at the same time. Any updates on sky train?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 180, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4112 times:
Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 175): Not sure what the load factors are but is another flight needed between these two cities?
Yep. All of The UA and F9 flights between the two cities are packed to the gills!!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 181, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 179): Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21
B21 isn't an FIS gate, maybe you're thinking of B23?
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 182, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4037 times:
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 179):
Any wonder why the Aeromexico Erj has been running late as of lately? They have been using b21 and things got interesting the other night with westjet coming in at the same time.
That was a one-off charter, and they used B23.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 184, posted (4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 178): I guess it depends on what B6 operations are doing since both airlines share a gate... But I heard that the HA A330 will start service to PHX next year
Good, then next December I can fly HA's 330 to the island for Christmas.....
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 188, posted (4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3800 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 187):
does anybody have more information about Piedmont starting service to PHX "effective january 2013" according to the western option in the route map
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 189, posted (4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3783 times:
Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 185):
Check again westjet uses b21 we can't part there after 1900. I know it's it a customs gate and they don't tow it over from one of the end fis gates.
WS is able to use B21 nightly for their YYC turn because they preclear in Calgary. It's not an FIS gate. 5D had a charter flight that came in around 18:30 on 1/5 from HMO and used B23. Their regular HMO flight hasn't left later than ~15:45 in the last two weeks.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 192, posted (4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3732 times:
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 187): does anybody have more information about Piedmont starting service to PHX "effective january 2013" according to the western option in the route map
Look at the map legend. Their entire Western Operation is customer service/ground handling only.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 188): Piedmont does customer service here and ramp service for US Airways. Mesa and Skywest are the only US regionals at PHX.
They only do ramp and gates for Express. US has their own mainline employees.
[Edited 2013-01-11 23:26:26]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
mach2is2slowAZ From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 214, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 215, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 216, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 215): That being said, do people see WN flying PHX-Hawaii at all?
I can see it as an originating portion for a flight, but not a direct to Hawai'i. I can see a
PHX-ONT-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH),
PHX-SAN-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH)
PHX-OAK-HNL (OGG, KOA, LIH)
My question about this on WN would be if this is going to far out of their business model? They are going to have to have planes just on these routes and that seems to go against the model of having flexibility in their fleet.
Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 217, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2640 times:
News is reporting that the 787 investigation is going to go to a company in Southern Arizona. They will be going to the company in Tucson where the battery chargers are manufactured and then test them up in Phoenix.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4935 posts, RR: 15 Reply 218, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2556 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216): Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?
I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 219, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 215): No it is not. It seems to always come up, for reasons I can't understand, but no A330 for PHX in 2013 with current planning.
I was talking about next year(2014). I heard that from a line mech that the A330 will be coming to PHX.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 220, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2454 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 218): Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?
I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.
If HA were to use the 321NEO here to PHX, I'd expect they would run more then one daily flight. I think they would run a schedule closer to what US Airways does with the 752, with 2-3 daily PHX-HNL flights. It would actually be an up-gauge if they run more flights with a smaller aircraft, more frequencies means more flight time options for passengers. An A330 may have more prestige, but it will ultimately be a business decision on what makes the most money.
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3056 posts, RR: 2 Reply 221, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216): Since HA has put int the order for a A321 NEO, could that make it to PHX? I know about the head winds and the stats say it can make it from HNL to Denver, but that is a theoretical model. If it can make it here, does anyone think that HA would operate a PHX - OGG, PHX - KOA or PHX - LIH?
I know A LOT more on the NEO's than I feel comfortable sharing, so I can't say. I would not rule that out though. Can't really rule anything out per se...
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 218): I highly doubt the flight will be down-gauged. It's such a lucrative market from HNL, but MAYBE it could work well from PHX-KOA.
I don't know about "lucrative" (as in printing money), but I would agree that it won't be down-guaged.
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 219): I was talking about next year(2014). I heard that from a line mech that the A330 will be coming to PHX.
That could be. I can't speak to that because the extent on my financial planning works on a calender year basis.
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 219): True but aren't the 763s on their way out at HA?
They are, but not all at once of course. 4 this year and then some more as we go on and more 330's come aboard.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 220): An A330 may have more prestige, but it will ultimately be a business decision on what makes the most money.
True...and don't forget, we are still in the running for a bunch of A350's. That being said, AT SOME POINT 5-6 years from now, the A330 will be the down-gauge aircraft. Funny when you think about the future of aviation
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 222, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2361 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 150): That is what I was trying to get at, albeit a lot less eloquent than you. The cost was/is too high to have PHX as a gateway to Europe. Also LH pulled out when it was just BA and their selves due to lack of desire for the product. If you already have the infrastructure established in the east where it is more flexible then why not use those resources to their fullest.
Eloquent? You are far too kind. I agree with all of your points. BA makes it work somehow, but they're actually a good airline. I would only spend 12 hours on a PHX-Europe flight operated by US if it were either against my will or very, very cheap. Like free. Or maybe they pay me. I think I'd rather get bird flu though.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 152): Not only am I trying to get a flight from here to NRT, which has quite a large amount of support from most of my contacts near and far
Is this one of those psychological tricks that if you say it enough times, it'll become true? It never worked for me. I kept saying over and over that Mila Kunis would be waiting for me with a sandwich when I get home, but it still hasn't happened. PHX-NRT wouldn't even survive with a B788. There's literally no market for it, despite your insistence. Airlines have to make something called money, and on a route like that, they'd be better off taking cash and using as insulation to fix their 788 batteries. PHX-FRA has a remote chance of surviving. Maybe. PHX-NRT would be DOA.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 154): I hate that word- profitable That word always comes at the expense of customer service.....
You are aware of how businesses work, right? The pre-1978 regulated days were cool and all except you'd never be able to afford to fly because profitable didn't matter. "Profitable" means you can afford to fly with a brief layover in Chicago. If you want direct flights to NRT or wherever, try moving to LA.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 158): Wait a second here:
UA Has a 'hub' in LAX and SFO but makes it work.
LAX is not a fortress hub or any sort of stronghold for AA.
I don't see a problem.
I see a problem. Los Angeles and San Francisco > Phoenix in pretty much every category of everything. Also, UA is a real airline. US is not. LAX is not a stronghold for AA, but they have a decent market share and have for a very long time with a loyal customer base. Travelers in PHX are *maybe* loyal to WN. US is still a relatively new thing here, and everyone loyal to HP has since moved on because US is a far cry from the old HP. If AA moved here, it would only get worse. For airlines to succeed in a city they don't already hold a commanding market share, there HAS to be a loyalty base. VFR travelers bring no money -- which is basically the entire PHX market. Elites account for less than 5% of ticket sales but more than 1/3 of the revenue. No elites means no money. Case and point: PIT, CLE, CVG, MEM, LAS. PHX isn't that bad, but close.
Quoting chrisair (Reply 174): Great. When will T2 get PreCheck, like it was supposed to in October?
Ain't happening. I'm pissed. I got four different excuses ranging from, "there's a glitch" to "there's not enough space", but the most recent one is "no one in T2 qualifies". What a load of BS. He said they did a survey for *a day* (typical diligent TSA) and had only 30 people who qualified or something. They still have Pre-Check signs up too which is really annoying.
Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 198): Does anyone know how Spirit doing on DEN-AZA and ORD-AZA?
I don't have numbers, but I know they have been unable to match the success of G4. They've done better than F9, but that's like saying they've done better than the Cards did this season.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 204):
Can you guys answer this question about the A380 in Arizona??
Tucson area makes me think MZJ, which makes me think Dreamlifter. It's a fat piece of crap so I can understand how one might mistake it for the A380, which obviously has similar aesthetic attributes. The Dreamlifter was at MZJ until about two years ago when Boeing found some sleazy loophole and transferred its flying from Evergreen to Atlas.
I suppose there's a chance it was the doomsday machine (aka E-4). I've seen it at DM a couple of times in the past.
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Soon T-3 when DL gets their 739s 
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