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BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots  
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5309 posts, RR: 16
Posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13917 times:

From this mornings Financial Times:

quote:

British Airways stands to strengthen its grip on Heathrow by gaining the right to buy a large chunk of take-off and landing slots at the airport, as part of proposals Ryanair is offering European regulators to seek approval for its contentious takeover of Aer Lingus.

and

In the same regulatory process, Flybe, the smaller UK airline that has issued four profit warnings since its 2010 flotation, has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

source: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28317...80-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2F6uHVath

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12600 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13242 times:

And in further "we're not regular visitors to Planet Earth" news, Benjamin Netanyahu has offered to form the next Israeli government in coalition with Hamas, and EL AL will begin a three times weekly service to Tehran."

These are about as likely as the above to happen; I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11723 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13201 times:

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
In the same regulatory process, Flybe, the smaller UK airline that has issued four profit warnings since its 2010 flotation, has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

And some people still wonder why it is that FlyBe have posted so many profit warnings... If this is true I'd be seriously looking at dumping any investment in BE ASAP - what the hell are they thinking.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
And in further "we're not regular visitors to Planet Earth" news

  


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5309 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13185 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
These are about as likely as the above to happen; I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.

Because BA ( IAG ) wants those slots. They even confirm the deal:

"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.” "


User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12917 times:

Wiat for more PR from Branson.....!!

If this goes ahead then O'Leary is unlikely to want to operate VS domestic services either....remedy slots or not.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12164 times:

Quoting edina (Reply 4):
Wiat for more PR from Branson.....!!


Ah, what a tempting prospect....a MOL v SRB fight, ideally promoted and refereed by Harry Hill

Quoting KL911 (Reply 3):
"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.”


Note, IAG have also signed a MoU with Comac for the 919...ain't ever gonna be a 919 with the union (or indeed spanish) flag on its tail however



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7319 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12076 times:

So much for Aer Lingus continuing to operate under FR ownership - Heathrow gone, and their European network given to flybe for three years.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 3):
Because BA ( IAG ) wants those slots. They even confirm the deal:

"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.” "

Dublin to Heathrow becomes a monopoly! wonderful - just what the doctor ordered.

No, they did not confirm any deal. They have only confirmed that they will review, which is something very different. A non binding MOU is as useful as a broken light bulb.

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

So, after three years a monopoly appears. Thats great news!

Has offered and operating are two different things.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5309 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12004 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
Dublin to Heathrow becomes a monopoly! wonderful - just what the doctor ordered.

Well, LHR is handy for connections, but for O&D you might as well fly into one of the other airports. There will be more travel time for some, sure, but from LGW to the city or LHR to the city is not such a big difference. LGW has good rail connections.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 9516 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
Well, LHR is handy for connections, but for O&D you might as well fly into one of the other airports. There will be more travel time for some, sure, but from LGW to the city or LHR to the city is not such a big difference. LGW has good rail connections.

The Dublin - London market is so huge that this is incorrect.

Not everybody is going to central London.

Heathrow works for those people not only in Central London, but in West London and the surrounding counties too.

This deal is bad for Dublin, bad for Ireland, and it would seem bad for the UK (at least that portion of it who travel to Ireland)



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8144 times:
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Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.

I guess that BA probably figure that LHR slots are so precious that they are just staking their claim in the (highly unlikely) chance that FR has to sell off a large portion of them. I cannot see the Irish government selling its 25% stake if it means that not only DUB but SNN and ORK are all left with a greatly diminished LHR service. I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?



Next Flights: CX178 MEL-HKG; CX257 HKG-LHR; EI387 LHR-SNN; EI384 SNN-LHR; CX250 LHR-HKG; CX135 HKG-MEL
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8049 times:

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 9):
I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?

Given the fury when Shannon lost its only European hub connection to LHR a couple of years ago (since re-instated of course), you can only imagine how this would play, not only at SNN, but even more so at Cork.

People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 9):
I guess that BA probably figure that LHR slots are so precious that they are just staking their claim in the (highly unlikely) chance that FR has to sell off a large portion of them. I cannot see the Irish government selling its 25% stake if it means that not only DUB but SNN and ORK are all left with a greatly diminished LHR service. I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?

Actually, maybe BA would guarantee to serve ORK and SNN under any such deal to acquire the EI slots at LHR. If the FR/BA MoU is about satisfying the competition authorities about London-Ireland service, then I could imagine BA looking at an increased frequency on LHR-DUB (it now operates its own service after the BD merger), as well as say 3x Daily SNN and ORK service. Heck, this could be a good deal for BA even if it had to surrender some slots to allow a competitor to serve LHR-DUB and LHR-BHD.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 11):
Actually, maybe BA would guarantee to serve ORK and SNN under any such deal to acquire the EI slots at LHR. If the FR/BA MoU is about satisfying the competition authorities about London-Ireland service, then I could imagine BA looking at an increased frequency on LHR-DUB (it now operates its own service after the BD merger), as well as say 3x Daily SNN and ORK service. Heck, this could be a good deal for BA even if it had to surrender some slots to allow a competitor to serve LHR-DUB and LHR-BHD.

They only have to promise to operate for a certain period. After that, slots go wherever BA feel like. BA have even cut the DUB service from a planned 8 frequencies to a paltry 5. Even at the capital city, they cant offer a frequency the market wants. I cant imagine how Cork or Shannon would fare would they can use the slot on a more lucrative long haul. EI simply have a better cost base to offer what the Irish market wants - and that's value fares.

There is no way to compel any airline to operate a service in perpetuity. You can only hope that the particular airline's place in the market ensures such a thing (as EI's does - it's core is Ireland - it really could not use those slots at LHR any more profitably than it does).



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7687 times:
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Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.

That ultimate is the crux of FR's takeover attempt. They have been trying to beat EI for years and although they have gained the upper hand at time in the battle between the two, the reality is EI unlike many others who have gone face to face with FR are still there and in a healthy situation in spite of the horrific economic climate in Ireland at the moment. FR's takeover bit is merely a plan is to take EI out by buying them.

That said, given that BA have now publically announced their interest in EI's LHR slots, I think the ultimate worst fate for EI would be to get swallowed up by IAG in which case it would probably end up loosing alot of its LHR slots to BA anyway. EY so far seem to be the most suitable airline to buy up a large shareholding in EI.



Next Flights: CX178 MEL-HKG; CX257 HKG-LHR; EI387 LHR-SNN; EI384 SNN-LHR; CX250 LHR-HKG; CX135 HKG-MEL
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5309 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5583 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
Given the fury when Shannon lost its only European hub connection to LHR a couple of years ago (since re-instated of course), you can only imagine how this would play, not only at SNN, but even more so at Cork.

People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.

If there is a market for a route to be operated someone will, if there's not.... No route. That's normal.

Regarding EI maybe disappearing , what is so terribly wrong with that? Europe doesn't need 40 Airlines, Europe needs maybe maximum 8 healthy airlines, plus 2 LCC's.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14142 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5178 times:

I wonder if the OP ever realised that if FR would get a monopoly on western European air traffic (in another thread he advocated a split of Europe between FR for the West and Wizzair for the East) that the fares would not stay as cheap as he likes them to be (as he has mentioned in other threads that he likes FR because with them he can cheaply fly to places e.g. over a long weekend, something we used to take the bus for when I was in my 20s).
FR will then only reduce the fares if a competitor comes up, to fly for a while at dumping fares to crush the competition, and then raise them again as soon as the competitor goes broke.


User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
If there is a market for a route to be operated someone will, if there's not.... No route. That's normal.

The problem with Heathrow is that there may be a profitable market for a route but there are so few slots available that other airlines may make more money from using them on other routes. So the question then is should Aer Lingus be forced to sell its slots because other airlines want to use them.

Currently DUB-LHR is profitable. 2 airlines operate on it. BA and EI. BA wants to remove its competition on the route. Its an understandable position for BA to take but if you aren't involved in BA, hard to see why anyone else would support it.


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5309 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Quoting EI564 (Reply 16):
So the question then is should Aer Lingus be forced to sell its slots because other airlines want to use them.

Didn't the same happen to BMI? Being bought and dismantled, just for slots?


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):

BMI was a basket case that would have collapsed anyway. EI is an expanding, profitable carrier and one of the only carriers able to turn a profit on shorthaul. It also has more capacity out of Ireland than anyone else, even FR.

Apples and Oranges.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14142 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

You didn´t get it? I know that you love FR because of the (subjective) low fares, which allow you to fly all over Europe on short notice. Do you really think those fares will stay low once FR got a monopoly on a route? And no, the profit won´t be seen by the staff.
Fares will only be lowered to dumping levels to prevent a competitor from getting a foothold.


User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3866 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):
Didn't the same happen to BMI? Being bought and dismantled, just for slots?

It could happen. But chances are that the EU wouldn't be so willing to approve of this takeover. shamrock604's post gives an idea why.


User currently offlineeicvd From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2193 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Regarding EI maybe disappearing , what is so terribly wrong with that?

Maybe a large % of the Irish population & regular visitors here would rather not like to have FR as their number 1 option of flying for business or leisure to & from Ireland?. I doubt the Irish public would want to see family & friends unemployed either, unemployment is bad enough at the moment!

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Europe doesn't need 40 Airlines, Europe needs maybe maximum 8 healthy airlines, plus 2 LCC's.

EI is a healthy airline by the way, it can easily hold its own as 1 of those 8 airlines.


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