DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13625 times:
Hello fellow A.nutters,
I am planning to relocate to the environs of SFO next year, and with all the changes coming to SFO and the rest of the Bay Area I thought it would be best to create a full discussion thread.
So far we know:
*NH will be launching NRT-SJC on the 788 on Jan. 11.
*UA will be launching CDG, TPE, and FLL.
*TK has SFO as part of a large wishlist.
*AA will move from the 762/763 to the 321 in 2014, and DL will soon move to the 762.
*VX is interested in further expansion.
*UA to GRU has been rumored but not from a formal source.
In terms of aircraft up/downgauges, is the LH 388 here to stay? Also, will AF resend the 388, and when will CX move to all 77W? Has LA announced f they will send the 788 to SFO?
planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13471 times:
I'm flying SFO-NRT and SYD-SFO in February and am stuck on the old 747-400 for both legs. I typically don't poo-poo any chance to fly a 744, but since I'm not in J the experience won't exactly be pleasant, especially for 11 and 13 hours at a time.
Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?
shengzhurou From China, joined May 2010, 32 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13431 times:
SQ will operate A380 on the SFO-HKG flight soon, CX will is keeping the 744 for a while, since their SFO base crew are 747 only, a triple daily 77W could happen if more loads on business class. UA's 744 are mainland base out from SFO in which I tried to avoid for going NRT or HKG. No Hawaii for VX at the moment until the ETOPS A320 arrive, rumor that they have frozen the ETOPS program. we still see KLM's MD11 in the winter.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 13373 times:
Southwest-I thought VX flew to PHX. Oops.
My question, which may have been phrased confusingly, is whether VS and VX codeshare on each other's flights for routings where VS operates LHR-SFO and VX operates SFO-smaller city.
Overall, is VX ex-SFO interested in any connecting traffic or only point-to-point?
iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4098 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13283 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Any one know how WN is performing in SFO? Certainly must be decent as they have added a little over the past few years since the station was opened (unlike IAD which has been cut since station opening). Is there any terminal/ramp space for them to add additional flights? I would expect any expansion by any airline will be fairly limited in SFO due to delays and limited space.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, RR: 80 Reply 11, posted (5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13271 times:
Quoting planespotting (Reply 6): Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO
SFO will remain 747-400s to Tokyo.
Enjoy the 747s while you can. The new interiors on UA are just fine in coach. I've done the SFO-NRT leg in the new coach and it was fine.
Quoting planespotting (Reply 6): will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?
All the other UA NRT destinations will be downgraded to a 777.
LAX will downgrade to a 787.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, RR: 80 Reply 14, posted (5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13210 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 13): Yes, will be CPH-SFO 6x weekly beginning April 8.
Sadly they're dropping Bangkok.
I lived in San Francisco for 15 years and SAS always 'talked' about coming to San Francisco and nothing happened. Then I move to Bangkok and now SAS is dropping Bangkok in favor of San Francisco.
SAS doesn't like me.
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13217 times:
Welcome to SFO Dolphin
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 9):
Also, is there any chance AI will launch their strange DEL-SIN-SFO flight as they suggested?
No
Quoting planespotting (Reply 6): nyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?
The 747's are all being moved to SFO. There will be 2 flights operating from LAX, but rotated back when need to SFO for maintenance.
Quoting iowaman (Reply 10): Any one know how WN is performing in SFO?
They are doing well according to an inside source. However I don't see much expansion while they merger/transition continues with AirTran. Also, they have no additional gate space available to them.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 2): I believe SAS will be starting service in the spring with their beautiful A340s.
Service begins April 8th with 6 weekly (X2) CPH
An addition to this, China Eastern has express they will start service April 6th SFO-PEK
On an exciting note for UA, the steel for concourse E has arrived and is starting to go up. We should see the full frame work doen in the coming months.
The new ATC tower is well underway between T-1 and T-2. I don't know the timeframe for when you will see the structure moving up. Currently the underground work is being done, but there has been a 200 ft crane in place for about 2 weeks, so could be soon for a frame to show.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 13211 times:
Nice thread.
A couple of other notes.
MU will restart their PVG-SFO service coming April on a daily A332.
UN applied for seasonal service twice a week this coming Spring.
Non aviation but airport related. SFO will once again have an onsite Hotel. It will be located in a current overflow lot near the A- Pier of the International Terminal. It will not be connected to the Terminal but I would expect the air train to be reconfigured to allow access. No word on the operator.
Quoting planespotting (Reply 6): Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?
Per another thread last week on 787s out of SFO & LAX it appears UA plans on using the 787 exclusively out of LAX and will continue the 744/777 out of SFO. The 777 rules the roost at SFO for long haul routes across the Pacific.
Per AA & VX they both are enjoyin the new T2 but not sure that VX has any firm expansion plans for Q1 of 2013. My guess is they will have a formal announcement in mid January regarding new slot pairings. I know that SMF has been courting them for the new Terminal B. AA most likely will need to sort out the issue of merge or not before they offer up any new slot pairs.
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 13174 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 16): Non aviation but airport related. SFO will once again have an onsite Hotel. It will be located in a current overflow lot near the A- Pier of the International Terminal. It will not be connected to the Terminal but I would expect the air train to be reconfigured to allow access. No word on the operator.
Funny you mention that. I dropped my wife of this morning at 4am to work a flight and the lot was being used with a bus operating through it. They got that lot up and running fast.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 26, posted (5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 13553 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 25): All other flight will rotate the 747's to/back from SFO as needed. The ORD 747 pilot base is in the process of closing as well.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (5 months 1 week ago) and read 13734 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 21): Funny you mention that. I dropped my wife of this morning at 4am to work a flight and the lot was being used with a bus operating through it. They got that lot up and running fast.
They certainly did. They have light polls and everything.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13623 times:
@Doc—I won't move until (most likely) the fall but I'll be studying in the Bay Area.
How serious is TK's desire to fly to SFO? It seems like a good 3x weekly 77W route to offer connections to India and the Middle East. Neither EY nor QR has announced a flight to California yet so TK could fill that gap. Also, as a *A hub SFO must have lots of *A FFs.
For an out-of-the-box idea, what about BA sending a 788 (though the 763 has the legs) to SJC?
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 34, posted (5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13515 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 33): Why?
They send two 747s daily to SFO which is just 35 miles away from SJC
Well BA and AA have together 13 daily flights to JFK, and yet BA sends another 3 daily flights to EWR. Distance between JFK and EWR, 21 miles.
It might not be a fair comparison, because the NYC market is much larger, but point is, there might still be a demand for a SJC flight to LHR in the future, even if it is so close to SFO.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13427 times:
@B747, that was my analysis as well. I fly NYC-CDG a lot and the fact that BA serves both EWR and ORY in addition to JFK and CDG is a huge plus. San Jose is a large city, and the Silicon Valley area has large links (both wealthy VFR and business) to places like IKA, BOM, BLR etc. Being the only longhaul carrier at an airport certainly helps, and BA would get this at SJC (NH doesn't count because with the exception of California-India, BA and NH don't connect on similar routes.
I know that in NJ many people will pay a premium to avoid flying out of JFK, is that the case with SJC in the South Bay or is SJC's international network too weak for that to be a question?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, RR: 80 Reply 36, posted (5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13377 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 35): is that the case with SJC in the South Bay or is SJC's international network too weak for that to be a question?
SFO is a great airport and I rarely hear of complaints about catching flights out of SFO. It's only problem is fog.
SJC is much smaller and smaller than EWR.
AA used to have a 777 to NRT out of SJC but I can't think of any international service out of SJC to Europe or Asia.
There may be service to Mexico but I'm not sure.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 37, posted (5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13330 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 36): AA used to have a 777 to NRT out of SJC but I can't think of any international service out of SJC to Europe or Asia.
There may be service to Mexico but I'm not sure.
AA also did SJC-CDG and SJC-TPE for about 6 monhts in 2001. 9/11 helped end that. As you noted, Asia did in fact have international service from SJC since NRT is in Asia. CDG was SJC's only Europe non-stop ever.
AA was about to start LGW and GDL about the same time, but it never happened. If it had, AA would have had international flights from SJC to LGW, CDG, NRT, TPE and GDL.
SJC currently has GDL on AS and Volaris and SJD on AS, the latter being seasonal. MX also flew to Morelia and I think MEX at one time. AS also once had seasonal service to PVR. AC did YYZ for several years and YOW for a very short time (for high tech traffic). QQ, Air Cal, AA and Canadian Regional Airlines each did SJC-YVR at one time or another. There in no current Canada service from SJC.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 38, posted (5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13307 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 36): SFO is a great airport and I rarely hear of complaints about catching flights out of SFO. It's only problem is fog.
That "only" is a big problem. If the weather isn't clear, delays of ~3h are pretty common. Leaving that aside, SFO is a great airport.
SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 40, posted (5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13215 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38): SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.
A friend of mine lives near the 92/280 interchange in San Mateo. He used to fly out of SJC, over SFO, for business trips to places like NRT and BOS because he felt it was so much more convenient to get in and out of than SFO. San Mateo is much closer to SFO than SJC, yet here's an example of someone who preferred SJC.
What's the cachement area for SJC itself, something like 2 million people?
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13181 times:
Well, if every other day the NH flight gets two Silicon Valley businessmen going to Tokyo who are ready to pay a premium to have only a 10 minute drive to the airport, that in itself may turn the flight from money-bleeding to profitable. However, I'm sure that only NH management knows the profitability of their own flights.
UA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13071 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38): SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.
I think that SJC could really benefit from the proposed (controversial?) BART extension into Santa Clara county, with a similar BART arrangement as SFO. I'm sure that they would be able to draw business pax from SFO and the rest of the Bay Area looking to escape the roulette-esque delays at SFO. Heck, I used to know businessmen from my old digs up in Berkeley who were willing to make the hour-long drive to SJC to bypass SFO.
But then again, that was around 11 years ago when SJC still had transpacific service.... Under the same situation, though, I also think that SJC could capture leisure pax from SFO if the Y fares were low enough to be competitive with OAK.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 43, posted (5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13002 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 39): I guess. So do you think NH's SJC flight will be able to hold?
I don't see why not. AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC. The 787 is a smaller airplane and very economical to operate. I assume that NH has done their homework and traffic projections and are marketing and advertising very well. From what I know of NH, those folks at HND are not dummies. If they let San Jose talk them into flying into SJC, I expect that they feel it will be successful and be able to hold.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12830 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 43): I don't see why not. AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC. The 787 is a smaller airplane and very economical to operate. I assume that NH has done their homework and traffic projections and are marketing and advertising very well. From what I know of NH, those folks at HND are not dummies. If they let San Jose talk them into flying into SJC, I expect that they feel it will be successful and be able to hold.
Couple that with the fact that a large percentage of the Bay Area's senior executives live in the South Bay, and many of them would love nothing more than to be able to bypass SFO in favor of SJC, I suspect that NH's service will do well.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38): That "only" is a big problem. If the weather isn't clear, delays of ~3h are pretty common. Leaving that aside, SFO is a great airport.
What he said. I don't fly as much as I'd like to these days, but my job has me practically living at SFO, and I regularly have the "pleasure" of sitting around and waiting 3 or 4 hours for pax on the delayed flights. "Frustrating" is an understatement...
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38): SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.
You make a good point; OTOH I think there's enough of a population base in the South Bay that I think SJC can still be a viable alternative, especially since a considerable portion of the Bay Area's wealth is in the South Bay (Saratoga, Los Gatos, Los Altos, etc). The biggest issue is a lack of service...I've lost track of how many clients I've driven who've flown out of SFO but would have preferred SJC...
BTW, good thread nice to see the SFO area finally get some love...now, if only someone (WN or VX) would start an SFO-BUR flight to compete with UA Express's ridiculous fares...
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12870 times:
As we all know, SQ will start service into SFO this month on SQ 1/2 using their A380. I snapped these shots at SFO of a display. Out of curiosity, how much does one of these models cost? I would say a couple of thousand.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12757 times:
Quoting warden145 (Reply 45): Couple that with the fact that a large percentage of the Bay Area's senior executives live in the South Bay, and many of them would love nothing more than to be able to bypass SFO in favor of SJC, I suspect that NH's service will do well.
Another question is would these CEO types settle for J as the NH flight will not have an F class? IMO, the new SJC flight is not really a new market for NH but an extension of their SFO flight. NH has added double daily into JFK,LAX and ORD(?) the last year or so.
SFO still handles 90% + of the nonstop International traffic into the Bay Area.
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 43): AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC.
AA is on record stating the flight was losing money the last couple of years before cancellation. After the LAX-NRT flight was added and the pull down of the SJC hub, it was a natural goner.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4969 posts, RR: 14 Reply 48, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12726 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 46): As we all know, SQ will start service into SFO this month on SQ 1/2 using their A380. I snapped these shots at SFO of a display. Out of curiosity, how much does one of these models cost? I would say a couple of thousand.
9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 740 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12602 times:
@ DolphinAir747, welcome to the Bay Area in advance!
@ DocLightning, an SFO meetup sounds fun! I enjoy going to the park opposite the Westin, especially when the heavies to Europe or Asia are leaving the A gates!
I am debating on whether to fly the NH B788 to NRT to DEL or the SQ WhaleJet.... Lets see what the price gods say early next year!
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12579 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 47): Another question is would these CEO types settle for J as the NH flight will not have an F class?
That's a fair question and I'm not sure as to the answer. However, I get the impression that it's getting more and more difficult for corporate travelers (except those at the VERY top) to even be allowed to fly Business, let alone First Class, so I'm not sure how much of an effect that'll have.
Quoting legacyins (Reply 47): SFO still handles 90% + of the nonstop International traffic into the Bay Area.
That is true, and I would be very surprised if that changed. However, I think a few SJC flights would be successful as a niche.
Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12357 times:
Quoting warden145 (Reply 51): Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?
They may be trying a AF move and bring it in to test the market. AF brought in their A380 last summer season due to the Japan tragedy and drop off in traffic. SQ was using their A380 on the JFK run but I tend to believe the traffic drops off during the Winter season from Europe. LH extended their A380 into SFO through the Holiday season.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16824 posts, RR: 57 Reply 55, posted (5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11760 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 47): AA is on record stating the flight was losing money the last couple of years before cancellation. After the LAX-NRT flight was added and the pull down of the SJC hub, it was a natural goner.
At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).
I see it as being better as a domestic hub. SFO has better connections to Bay Area transit, domestic connections, etc. etc. etc.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11713 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 55): At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).
Yes, NH will start service on the NRT-SJC route next month. The layout of NH's 787 is 46J and 112 Y. One thing that might help this flight is the connections out of NRT and any cargo that may be carried.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 58, posted (5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11686 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 57): Quoting DocLightning (Reply 55):
At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).
Yes, NH will start service on the NRT-SJC route next month. The layout of NH's 787 is 46J and 112 Y. One thing that might help this flight is the connections out of NRT and any cargo that may be carried.
One downside is that NH won't have any connections at SJC. At most there might be a UA SJC-DEN connection.
AA had connections from the NRT-SJC flight to SNA, SAN, LAX, AUS, LAS, BOS, DFW, SEA, etc. But as I said, I'm still optimistic that it will work, or NH wouldn't be starting it. From what I know of NH, they are a well-run airline with smart leadership.
Asiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 1 Reply 60, posted (5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11559 times:
Quoting warden145 (Reply 51): Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?
It is just a seasonal change. The SIN-HKG-SFO A380s are coming from SIN-FRA-JFK, which gets the 77W Dec 28 until Mar 23.
After Mar 23 the aircrafts are swapped again so SIN-JFK goes back to A380 and SIN-HKG-SFO becomes 77W again.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38505 posts, RR: 80 Reply 61, posted (5 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11395 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44): We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.
I had fun hanging out at the last meet there with HoonsAir a few years ago.
I really miss the early Airliners.net meets inside the TWA terminal back in 2000 and 2001.
Wow that sounds so dated now. Impossible for non-ticket holders to be inside the airport and of course TWA is no longer with us.
chiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 884 posts, RR: 2 Reply 64, posted (5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11205 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38): SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.
What are you talking about?
Majority of hi-tech company are much closer to SJC than SFO. Apple, Cisco, Google, FB... etc are all closer to SJC.
I would glad to pay slightly more to fly out of SJC instead of SFO. SJC is too small to handle international traffic. But it does not mean customers are happy to go up north to catch flight out of SFO.
chiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 884 posts, RR: 2 Reply 65, posted (5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11196 times:
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 60): It is just a seasonal change. The SIN-HKG-SFO A380s are coming from SIN-FRA-JFK, which gets the 77W Dec 28 until Mar 23.
After Mar 23 the aircrafts are swapped again so SIN-JFK goes back to A380 and SIN-HKG-SFO becomes 77W again.
I really would hope SQ makes this permanent change.
I flew on SQ1 on 12th and will return on SQ2 on 23rd. The J is pretty much full.
I miss the first A380 flight on 12/22. SQ is sending the A380 on friday. For that just one day before the 28th official launch.
Quote: The United States are a strategic growth market for airberlin. This will continue to be the case in the future. By restructuring its network in North America, airberlin has set the course for further growth in this market from summer 2013 onwards. The new non-stop service between Berlin and the American Airlines hub of Chicago from March 2013 underpins the strategy of the second largest German airline as regards developing the existing synergies from that association.
Against this background, airberlin will also be increasing its non-stop services to New York JFK, Los Angeles and Miami from May 2013 onwards, while at the same time cancelling its seasonal non-stop flights from Düsseldorf to Las Vegas, San Francisco and Vancouver.
mikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 67, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10623 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 40): A friend of mine lives near the 92/280 interchange in San Mateo. He used to fly out of SJC, over SFO, for business trips to places like NRT and BOS because he felt it was so much more convenient to get in and out of than SFO. San Mateo is much closer to SFO than SJC, yet here's an example of someone who preferred SJC.
I also live in San Mateo and have not once in my life taking a flight from SJC. Granted I only take about 3 international trips a years and maybe some hops down to so-cal I have never once been delayed. Maybe i'm lucky. Its just funny to hear all the talk about fog and not once in my 27 years of existence been affected by it. Just sayin
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44): We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.
That would be awesome. Can I join? Lol. Also Elephant bar is a good view point too
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 68, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10582 times:
Quoting mikeology (Reply 67): Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.
That would be awesome. Can I join? Lol. Also Elephant bar is a good view point too
I'm flying to San Jose tomorrow afternoon for the holidays and will have some free time for a few days before the girlfriend arrives on Saturday (not sure she'd like to sit there and watch airplanes all day with other A.net geeks). I'd love to join in.
Might you be doing your meet-up this week? Where is the Elephant Bar? Is that out in that waterfront area in Burlingame near the 28s? (been so long since I lived in that area, I forget the name of that road).
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 70, posted (5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10568 times:
Quoting Irishpower (Reply 62): SU to SVO
VN to SGN
JQ to SYD or BNE
CZ to CAN
AB to TXL or DUS
Any airline to GRU
EY to AUH
and as mentioned above AI to BOM or DEL
VN: No, not unless they stop enroute. The flights to long and a very low yield route
JQ: QF just dropped SFO last year, why would they launch this with JQ
CZ: They are busy flying empty A380's to LAX. No need to start SFO. UA has route authority on SFO-CAN
AB: Stated below, just been dropped
EY: Been talked about, but honestly haven't heard anything new.
Anyway, both El Torito and Elephant Bar are south/east of SFO on the shore of the bay. They are both at the eastern end of the 28's. Especially fun when takeoffs are off the 19's. Your smartphone should be able to tell you. Elephant Bar is sort of California Fusion-esque cuisine. They're a national (international?) chain, so you can check out their website. I've never been a huge fan of their food, and they are a bit pricey. El Torito is Mexican food with good (not amazing) margaritas and good (not amazing) Mexican food, but prices are reasonable. The other favorite local spotting spot is BayShore Park, which is just before the Hyatt (I think it's the Hyatt).
Also, Benihana has a restaurant some ways down the road. When you walk in, if you go to the sushi bar side (to the left when you walk in the door) that dining room has a beautiful view right down the 28's.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (5 months 6 days ago) and read 10376 times:
Quoting mikeology (Reply 67): Nope. Glad I got to try it while I was hear. Loads sucked so i'm not surprised
AB averaged a 80-85% LF for the summer season so that really was not the issue. They are in an identity crisis. Am I scheduled or charter and am I focusing on leisure or business paxs. They are not doing well financially and just sold their frequent flier program. In the end, they are doing what QF did at SFO. Focus on their OW hubs and partners. They are closing LAS and YVR also.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10341 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 78): AB averaged a 80-85% LF for the summer season so that really was not the issue. They are in an identity crisis. Am I scheduled or charter and am I focusing on leisure or business paxs.
That describes the situation well, in addition to the whole alliance problem.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 81, posted (5 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10316 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 80): If we do something that is not this calendar year, I will attend it.
NS
Send me a note please if you do. I'll be traveling back to SJC every month or two for family reasons in the upcoming months. I'd love to join you guys if I'm down there. Thanks.
Citing LaxIntl from the Turkish Aviation forum:
IST-LAX: 77% LF, 45% O&D vs 53% transfer, top 5 destinations IKA, BEY, TLV, BOM, AMM
As loads seem to be good SFO makes perfectly sense to me as capacity will be added to the entire west-coast.
chiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 884 posts, RR: 2 Reply 83, posted (5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10270 times:
Quoting mikeology (Reply 67): I also live in San Mateo and have not once in my life taking a flight from SJC. Granted I only take about 3 international trips a years and maybe some hops down to so-cal I have never once been delayed. Maybe i'm lucky. Its just funny to hear all the talk about fog and not once in my 27 years of existence been affected by it. Just sayin
I fly international once a month (made UA GS every year for last 5 years- usually able to renew status about 7 months into the year).
Fog is a problem for me. I have been delayed by Fog about three times this year. Usually on the inbound flights from Asia that arrives early in the morning. To me its pain in the rear.
In addition, because of all UA international arrival in the morning, often it would take close to an hour to get out of baggage claim. Even traveling in J, I have never made out of SFO in less than 30 minutes after getting off the plane. Those three times i was delayed, i was not able to get out of airport until close to 11am, three hours after getting to SFO air space.
I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient. I fly into Japan, China, Hong Kong, and Singapore a lot. Narita, PVG, HKG, and Changi all do a better job in getting me out of custom. Last week I was able to get out of HKG airport into my limo 12 minutes after landing.
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 84, posted (5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10247 times:
Quoting chiawei (Reply 83): I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient. I fly into Japan, China, Hong Kong, and Singapore a lot. Narita, PVG, HKG, and Changi all do a better job in getting me out of custom. Last week I was able to get out of HKG airport into my limo 12 minutes after landing.
Your comparing Apples to Oranges. HKG is a primary Int'l airport, not exactly a lot of domestic service. The comparing USA airports vs. Asia gets old. You seem very bitter about SFO, but the fact is if your a UA GS, then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination. SFO is what it is.
The fog is a problem, however until the new GPS procedures go into effect it will continue to be so.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 85, posted (5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10249 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 84): The fog is a problem, however until the new GPS procedures go into effect it will continue to be so.
Is AS the only airline that does RNP procedures into SFO? Doesn't WN do them too?
Quoting as739x (Reply 84): then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination.
That's not a bad choice. Deal with fog delays and long waits, or fly a NH 787 into the very convenient SJC. That's not a bad deal at all. Hopefully a lot of people will feel the same way and the SJC-NRT flight will prosper. How about a KL AMS-SJC flight while we are at it.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10222 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 85): That's not a bad choice. Deal with fog delays and long waits, or fly a NH 787 into the very convenient SJC. That's not a bad deal at all. Hopefully a lot of people will feel the same way and the SJC-NRT flight will prosper. How about a KL AMS-SJC flight while we are at it.
As is obvious, SJC biggest problem in the gorilla up the road called SFO. SJC courted BA,VS and EI but nothing ever developed. Will the 787 change this? maybe. SJC is a niche' airport. The big European carriers are not going to fly into SJC and drain their yields/LF out of SFO.
The only Asian carriers I could possibly see is either CI or BR. I would say CI more as BR will shortly be in *A and will have UA as a partner.
Quoting chiawei (Reply 83): I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient.
This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.
mikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 87, posted (5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10184 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 86): This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.
Funny too is SFO must not see a problem with fog. Taking on what 4 new carriers next year plus an added UA flight?
On a side note is XL Airways coming back next year or was that a one time thing?
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 94, posted (5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10069 times:
When the new ATC Tower opens, are they planning on tearing down the old Tower? Wishful thinking but it would be nice if they opened an outdoor or even covered observation deck. Kind of like NRT.
chiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 884 posts, RR: 2 Reply 95, posted (5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10070 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 84): Your comparing Apples to Oranges. HKG is a primary Int'l airport, not exactly a lot of domestic service. The comparing USA airports vs. Asia gets old. You seem very bitter about SFO, but the fact is if your a UA GS, then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination. SFO is what it is.
I don't think i am. The SFO international terminal is indep. of domestic operation. So i don't understand the bag issues. UA has shanghai, PEK, HKG, NRT flights coming early morning. I believe those are the only 4 flights that arrives that early. I can somewhat understand number of flights.
HKG on the other hand has a lot more flights coming at morning rush hour. I believe majority of NA flights arrives between 6-9am. But I was still able to come out within 12 min.
I have no choice to live with SFO. But does not mean i like it at all. When ANA starts to NRT from SJC. I will take that flight over UA out of SFO.
Quoting legacyins (Reply 86): This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.
I don't know about that. I am still always amazed how UA is not able to handle 4 wide body flight in timely manner. When i come in from Asia. Often it will be packed with UA 838, 858, 888, and 862. Being SFO is UA hub and these flights has been operating for a long time, you would think UA will have enough ground crew to handle bags.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 96, posted (5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10016 times:
Quoting mikeology (Reply 93): Quoting legacyins (Reply 90):
Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 92):
I'll only be offended if you don't share the contents of said flask.
It should be noted then that whenever this meet takes place it involves a bar or one in near proximity
Yeah, and your point is? I like that plan. Liquid refreshments are always in order when engaging in our other favorite hobbies - namely watching airplanes. hope you guys plan it when I'm in town, so I can join in. Otherwise, SEA isn't a bad place to watch plane either - especially if you happen to like somber looking Eskimos.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 98, posted (5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10051 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 86): SJC courted BA,VS and EI but nothing ever developed.
SJC also courted NW to put an A330 on SJC-NRT to replace the dearly departed AA 777. Like I said, NH is an excellent carrier from my particular experience with them. I'm really glad they decided to start SJC and I wish them luck, and really expect they'll make it prosper.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 99, posted (5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10041 times:
Quoting chiawei (Reply 95): I don't know about that. I am still always amazed how UA is not able to handle 4 wide body flight in timely manner. When i come in from Asia. Often it will be packed with UA 838, 858, 888, and 862. Being SFO is UA hub and these flights has been operating for a long time, you would think UA will have enough ground crew to handle bags.
Well, this is an airline issue you are describing, not an airport issue. There are 4 high capacity baggage carousels in the G- International arrivals. If the ground crews for United are not getting the luggage up in a timely manner, you should ask UA.
I also fly across the Pacific often out of SFO and UA is not my first choice even as *G.
chiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 884 posts, RR: 2 Reply 100, posted (5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10030 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 99): Well, this is an airline issue you are describing, not an airport issue. There are 4 high capacity baggage carousels in the G- International arrivals. If the ground crews for United are not getting the luggage up in a timely manner, you should ask UA.
I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed. I was there earlier in the summer when the custom systems crashed and it took them 1 hour to get backup system (ancient pentium laptop) to start clearing custom. Each passenger took about 5 to 10 min to clear. So SFO does have rooms for improvement.
UA- I am already given up on UA in terms of service. But UA is my company preferred carrier, so at times I am forced to take UA. But I have been clever in getting around the system by stopping at places like Seoul and SIN so I can fly SQ.
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 101, posted (5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9987 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 85): Is AS the only airline that does RNP procedures into SFO? Doesn't WN do them too?
Quoting as739x (Reply 84):
Actually back when AS did the RNP program it never got launched. Even though it was approved, NorCal needed an additional controller and they wouldn't do it. They later approved the controller and all aircraft that are able/approved can do the RNAV approaches as far as I know.
Quoting mikeology (Reply 87): Funny too is SFO must not see a problem with fog. Taking on what 4 new carriers next year plus an added UA flight?
Int'l carrier don't fall into the delay program. They could care less. As long as they plan for holding fuel and have planned alternates they will be fine.
United new service is the same. TPE/CDG will just have local holds. The new FLL service arrived in the evening which is not as delayed prone as am 8a-1130a.
Quoting chiawei (Reply 95): I don't think i am. The SFO international terminal is indep. of domestic operation. So i don't understand the bag issues. UA has shanghai, PEK, HKG, NRT flights coming early morning. I believe those are the only 4 flights that arrives that early. I can somewhat understand number of flights.
Sorry I am not following all your arguements. If its the baggage time or ATC delays?? If it's the baggage issue I can give you many reason, none that I can discuss on a public forum in my current position. But again you comparing Asian city's vs. US city's, that all i will get into there.
Quoting chiawei (Reply 100): I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed
This is my personal opinion, but you do come off Anti-SFO here. Iv'e recently flown Int'l into LAX/IAD and IAH during arrival banks and SFO moved faster then all of these.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
as739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5820 posts, RR: 23 Reply 102, posted (5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10013 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 94): When the new ATC Tower opens, are they planning on tearing down the old Tower? Wishful thinking but it would be nice if they opened an outdoor or even covered observation deck. Kind of like NRT.
All coming down. Both ATC and Shadow Tower as well as the 6 level bulding below. All non-FAA offices have already been reloacted from the building, with the exception of the company offices contructing the new tower.
T-2 will look much different in a few years.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 103, posted (5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10008 times:
Quoting chiawei (Reply 100): I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed. I was there earlier in the summer when the custom systems crashed and it took them 1 hour to get backup system (ancient pentium laptop) to start clearing custom. Each passenger took about 5 to 10 min to clear. So SFO does have rooms for improvement.
I have a little experience here. Yes, if the systems go down, it is all stop. It needs to go up the chain of command to go to the various backup procedures. Not sure if you remember, about two summers ago, same thing happened at LAX. Thousands of passengers in the arrivals hall, passengers held on arriving aircraft. Total disaster.
Staffing is always an issue, no matter where you are. They use ratios in determining Officers to passengers. It use to be 45 to 1. Still in the end, there is always one passenger out there that might be of a concern. Better to play it safe and have a little inconvenience than not to have the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning, if you know what I mean.
Not yet. It my understanding that they notified the financial/regulatory(?) bodies in Turkey of their proposed list of destinations they would like to serve. Nothing firm and still a ways off yet.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9649 times:
Interesting.
Also, there's a separate thread on UA making EWR-SFO 14x daily. I need to fly that route 5 times or so next year so I selfishly hope this leads to trash fares in the short term!
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 110, posted (5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9653 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 109): Also, there's a separate thread on UA making EWR-SFO 14x daily. I need to fly that route 5 times or so next year so I selfishly hope this leads to trash fares in the short term!
I am sure that UA's fare will come down. So far they have only started phase one of the war, wait for phase two to begin soon, the pricing war
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 112, posted (5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9576 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 110): I am sure that UA's fare will come down. So far they have only started phase one of the war, wait for phase two to begin soon, the pricing war
My fellow 747, I will be watching this with great pleasure.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 115, posted (5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9510 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 114): My guess is that UA will be using more of the G- International Terminal to handle the increase of domestic flights.
That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, unfortunately. I understand the necessity of it, but it annoys me to no end! Same with UA using Terminal 1 for some flights. There's no consistency on where the passengers are going to come out from those flights, and it makes meeting people very difficult...you never know whether they're going to come out of the Terminal 3-F security exit, or if they don't have checked luggage and will come out either the Terminal 1-B exit or the Domestic Arrivals exit out of the International Terminal. Of course, the passenger then gets annoyed and calls my company's office screaming about how his driver didn't meet him where he was supposed to...
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 116, posted (5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9489 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113): If you have a choice between flying UA and VX, go with VX. Trust me.
I would if VX were in an alliance. Domestic service on American carriers is so bad anyways, so I really care about being able to gain/redeem miles on NH, SQ, NZ, TK, and (unfortunately) LH.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 117, posted (5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9450 times:
To keep this thread going....
SFO is constrained by space. They are surrounded by either a Bay or development. If they were to expand Terminal space, would it be possible to tear down the Super Bay and build a Terminal with underground train access?
I guess that's always possible. Getting United to give up the space is another matter.
Let's assume that some time in the not so distant future, a new runway is actually built parallel to the 10/28's. With that done, how about ripping up the 1/19's and building a satellite terminal in their place, connected to the new Terminal 1 development through an underground walkway. With a single linear terminal you could add around 30-40 Cat IV gates.
Put AA and VX into the new terminal and give T2 to UA, AC, and US. This would definitely give United the extra gates they most desperately need.
Speaking of LAN. They have been flying into SFO for about two years now and have not expanded from their 4-5 weekly flights. Any possibility of going daily in the future?
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8270 posts, RR: 5 Reply 121, posted (5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9346 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 120): Speaking of LAN. They have been flying into SFO for about two years now and have not expanded from their 4-5 weekly flights. Any possibility of going daily in the future?
LAN is in the process of reorganizing the schedule at the LIM hub. You will notice that LAN will change its schedule into SFO in the coming months; as well as the flight numbers, (LA2010/LA2011).
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 124, posted (5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9128 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 123): LAN markets the service as, "The only Non-Stop from San Francisco to South America":
Which is a true statement. They are the only carrier to offer non-stop service from SFO to South America.
I have heard some grubblings with LANs proposed schedule change into SFO. I guess the flight departs/arrives into GRU very early in the morning. I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?
When the LIM hub is developed, can there be more connections from S. America that are timed to connect to the SFO flight?
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8270 posts, RR: 5 Reply 126, posted (5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9109 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 124): I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?
The service operates as a direct service between GRU and SFO. Also, the service is geared towards connections to HKG via SFO. Perhaps LAN wants to offer connections to HND on JAL via SFO...
Quoting legacyins (Reply 124): When the LIM hub is developed, can there be more connections from S. America that are timed to connect to the SFO flight?
Yes, TAM plans to launch GIG-LIM and LAN plans to add new routes and more flights to destinations in the Southern Cone from the LIM hub.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 127, posted (5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9111 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126): Yes, TAM plans to launch GIG-LIM and LAN plans to add new routes and more flights to destinations in the Southern Cone from the LIM hub.
maybe at that time, they might increase to a daily flight.
I saw their 767, with winglets, today at SFO. I always liked their sharp livery.
mikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9083 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126): The service operates as a direct service between GRU and SFO. Also, the service is geared towards connections to HKG via SFO. Perhaps LAN wants to offer connections to HND on JAL via SFO...
Correct. I believe the flight arrives at 7am. Plenty of time for the many noon time flights leaving for Asia
Quoting legacyins (Reply 127): I saw their 767, with winglets, today at SFO. I always liked their sharp livery.
My favorite livery for a 767. Great looking plane. Wish it were at SFO everyday
Anybody know what the loads are like on the SFO-LIM route?
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 131, posted (5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8873 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 130): Does anyone know why 19L/R was being used today for arrivals? It was a pretty nice day but who knows how strong the winds were above.
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the storm that's on its way in...supposed to hit tonight and into tomorrow morning. There were a number of flight delays also, although I don't know how much of that had to do with SFO and how much of it had to do with the weather elsewhere...
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 133, posted (5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8678 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 132): I'm flying out of SFO this morning down South and pretty fierce weather out there. Delays about an hour and alternate runway use.
They are taking off on the 12s at SJC now, later morning 12/21. What runways are they using at SFO today, the 10s?
PSA727LAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 18 posts, RR: 0 Reply 135, posted (5 months 3 days ago) and read 8660 times:
Quoting as739x (Reply 23): Very much the opposite. The 747 will be the dominate bird T-PAC
Last time i looked SFO has huge #'s of T7's and yes still a large # of 47's too. I would love nothin more than for the Queen of the sky's (747) to keep on ruling the air but also know that a lot of the TPAC routes are or have gone to the T7's
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 140, posted (5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8493 times:
I still think the flights must have mostly O&D California side. Routings like FCO-FRA-LAX-DEN involve backtracking, and last I checked DEL-HNL isn't a huge market.
A lot of Germans and Europeans in general head for Hawaii and connect through SFO. This is of course after they tried the Canary Islands, Azores and Majorca. Also, visitors may start their journey in SFO and depart from LAX and vise versa.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8406 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 141): Also, visitors may start their journey in SFO and depart from LAX and vise versa.
I've seen that quite a bit...also, I wonder if people on the Pacific Northwest (PDX, SEA, etc) would go through SFO if they're loyal to Star? Granted I don't know what sorts of offerings PDX and SEA have, but there are quite a few UA Express flights from small cities west of the Rockies to SFO that probably help to feed.
I see a large number of corporate clients coming home to SFO who flew here from FRA, but connected at FRA from all over Europe as well, not to mention India...
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 143, posted (5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8410 times:
Quoting warden145 (Reply 142): I've seen that quite a bit...also, I wonder if people on the Pacific Northwest (PDX, SEA, etc) would go through SFO if they're loyal to Star?
What will be interesting to see is when SK starts service into SFO. When they flew into SEA, they had connecting traffic on AS from the bay Area. I am sure they will have some connecting traffic from the Pacific Northwest to SFO even though they have the option of flying BA/LH.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 147, posted (5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8006 times:
I've been hearing tell for 2 years that India and Tel Aviv are on the radar from UA... I'd think with 50 787s on the way, they can indeed make both work.
I don't recall what the delivery schedule for the 25 sUA ones are... I am hoping they get cracking on those, and that the 789 isn't going to be late for its 2014 deliveries.
Schweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 495 posts, RR: 1 Reply 148, posted (5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7999 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 147): I've been hearing tell for 2 years that India and Tel Aviv are on the radar from UA... I'd think with 50 787s on the way, they can indeed make both work.
I have heard the same thing. Particularly exciting is the fact that SFO-DEL or -BOM service would allow pax to fly UA RTW, say:
SFO-DEL-EWR-SFO
Which would take you over the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, China and Central Asia -- sweet!!
Unless, of course, the new Indian destination is one not currently served from Newark, such as Bangalore.
Cheers,
Scottie
p.s. -- If I'd been near the GB the other day when you were there, I'd certainly have popped in. I love day trips to SFO, A.M. arrival, redeye home.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 150, posted (5 months 21 hours ago) and read 7772 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 117): SFO is constrained by space. They are surrounded by either a Bay or development. If they were to expand Terminal space, would it be possible to tear down the Super Bay and build a Terminal with underground train access?
I think a better place would be the DHL and Asiana Cargo Ramp areas and the parking structure in between. Tear that down, extend Terminal F (that now ends at gate 90) all the way to Taxiway Y and use Y as the access loop to get to the back side.
I don't... It is my understanding that a large number of passengers that fly out of SFO on both Emirates and Lufthansa are connecting through to India. Likely enough to fill 1 daily 787.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 152, posted (5 months 21 hours ago) and read 7849 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 124):
I have heard some grubblings with LANs proposed schedule change into SFO. I guess the flight departs/arrives into GRU very early in the morning. I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?
Actually the times at GRU are pretty good, LIM is in the middle of the night, but from my experience on the flight, I would say well over half of the people were flying GRU-SFO or vice versa. LIM-SFO (&SFO-LIM) traffic accounted for about 30% of the passengers on the flights I was on.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 153, posted (5 months 21 hours ago) and read 7832 times:
Quoting rickabone (Reply 150): I think a better place would be the DHL and Asiana Cargo Ramp areas and the parking structure in between. Tear that down, extend Terminal F (that now ends at gate 90) all the way to Taxiway Y and use Y as the access loop to get to the back side.
This would be an interesting proposal. Unfortunately, the Asiana Building is relatively new, within the last five years, and I believe there a few long term leases that would need to be renegotiated..
On a side note, the proposed Termnal 1 rebuild looks promising. I like the Idea of the swing gates at the end that can be used for International flights. I believe there would be 2-3 Gates.
I was reading the Airport minutes, yes quite exciting, and came across a bid to reconfigure a gate or two for A380 use. Right now there is only one Gate capable of handling the A380 at the G Terminal.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 154, posted (5 months 20 hours ago) and read 7856 times:
As far as fog & low ceiling related delays at SFO, they should be reduced significantly by the end of this year as a system called CASPRS is instituted. The current arrival rate to the 28's in good weather is 60 aircraft per hour. SOIA (Simultaneous Offset Instrument Approaches) allows for 45 aircraft per hour, while ILS to 28R (or 28L if the right is closed) results in an arrival rate of only 30 aircraft per hour. To run visuals we usually need a 4000' ceiling, SOIA requires a 2100' ceiling, so it is only useful when the ceiling is less than 4000' but greater than 2100' and it requires significant set up time for both NCT and the pilots. CASPRS would have a similar arrival rate to SOIA, but a much lower ceiling requirement than SOIA. I don't remember exactly what CASPRS stands for, but in essence it reduces the spacing required between two aircraft landing on the parallel runways by increasing the glide slope of one of the ILS's and offsetting the touchdown zone (28R I think). This will allow aircraft to be 1.5 miles apart for the parallels instead of the standard IFR separation of 3 miles. It is not quite as efficient as SOIA since you can run SOIA with near side-by separation, and for both SOIA and CASPRS, you will still need a 4 mile hole between pairs to launch departures off the 1's in the most common configuration at SFO (landing on runways 28 and departing on runways 01).
The system won't get rid of weather related delays completely, but my guess is that on a day where you would normally encounter 2 hour delays into SFO due to fog or low ceilings, you will see those delays cut down to less than 1 hour.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 155, posted (5 months 20 hours ago) and read 7828 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 153):
This would be an interesting proposal. Unfortunately, the Asiana Building is relatively new, within the last five years, and I believe there a few long term leases that would need to be renegotiated..
On a side note, the proposed Termnal 1 rebuild looks promising. I like the Idea of the swing gates at the end that can be used for International flights. I believe there would be 2-3 Gates.
I was reading the Airport minutes, yes quite exciting, and came across a bid to reconfigure a gate or two for A380 use. Right now there is only one Gate capable of handling the A380 at the G Terminal.
Yeah, I know it would be a difficult proposal with the cargo ramp leases and the money they make off of the parking structure, but given the Terminal 1 redesign, I don't think you could even think of starting this until well into the 2020's, so it would be a very long term proposal (with construction beginning only after the 3 or more phases of the terminal 1 redesign are complete)
I also agree that the Terminal 1 redesign looks pretty cool. Though it won't add too many gates (I think 3-4 by my last count) it will smooth things out as far as taxiing and pushing go since most aircraft will be able to push out of their gates without blocking taxiway A or without blocking an alley.
It has been interesting to see how many fewer United/Skywest aircraft have to wait without gates now that they are parking CRJ2's and E120's at Terminal 1 and using the 76 & 77 gates for United Mainline along with CRJ7's. Even during the peak traffic periods this summer when they just started doing it, it was working out much better than before.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 156, posted (5 months 2 hours ago) and read 7615 times:
Quoting rickabone (Reply 151): I don't... It is my understanding that a large number of passengers that fly out of SFO on both Emirates and Lufthansa are connecting through to India. Likely enough to fill 1 daily 787.
At what cost? Load factors do not equal profitability if one fills the plane with cheap fares.
Also remember that passengers are flying from SFO to many different Indian cities, as well as IKA which is a large market to California, so a flight just to DEL would not help those passengers.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 157, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7422 times:
With the development of the 787, city pairs have opened up that may not have been viable using a larger aircraft. ANA will soon start SJC and JL has opened up SAN and BOS.
SFO has always had larger aircraft as the 777, 747 and to some extent the A380. Are there any routes out there that could come online using the 787? I was thinking possibly India, S. America and possibly S. Europe.
rickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 158, posted (4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7277 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 157): SFO has always had larger aircraft as the 777, 747 and to some extent the A380. Are there any routes out there that could come online using the 787? I was thinking possibly India, S. America and possibly S. Europe.
I would think India would be one of the first choices. Sao Paulo would be a good second choice to compete with LAN, Madrid in Southern Europe might work, maybe Moscow?
A 777 from the Bay Area to really any Indian destination would be low in yield.
A 787-8 from the Bay Area to a number of locations in India might do quite well.
A number of global Bay Area cities, including behemoths like Cisco and Dell, have opened major owned-and-operated centers in Bangalore and surrounds, and some other places I'm less familiar with. Whilst I was there, Cisco would contribute easily 100+ pax to an LH flight during the week getting to India, and I'm sure that they now put a large number on United via Newark (United is a "preferred vendor", Continental was not, on a lot of routes).
Wealthier Indian families in the Bay Area also do tend to travel home for a couple weeks a year... so I think, again, a 787 might do nicely.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 160, posted (4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7206 times:
With UA having 50 787 on order, they would be a natural choice to offer service from their hub at SFO. As I do not care for one carrier to have such a large share of flights from a particular airport, I would prefer a foreign carrier, who flies the 787, to offer the service.
I would say AI would be the strongest candidate to offer service from India to SFO using their 787 aircraft. It would also nice to see CZ start service from CAN using their 787 aircraft. UA still has the route authority but market conditions for a 777 may not be there. I would like to see UA open up DUB, TLV and GRU using their 787s.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 161, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6955 times:
Singapore Airlines will be flying in their A380 into SFO tomorrow for a short three month period. They will be using gate 101 at the G-terminal but the arrival time will be less than desirable for photo ops.
Speculation is that they may extend the flight beyond the March 2013 services but they seem adamant that it will only be until March 24th. Presumably, it will return to the JFK run.
Here is hoping the flight is successful and they change their minds and extend the period.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 162, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6650 times:
Maybe DEL or BOM could work on a 788, but EWR-BLR still seems like a better new 788 route to India for UA.
UA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 164, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6620 times:
SFO-CAN might start. Most major Chinese Airports aren't that low yielding. UA already has well established PEK and PVG service. The issue is that CAN is a China Southern, and therefore SkyTeam hub. Also, it is near HKG which has 744s on UA. I think we will eventually see SFO-CAN, but it might be a few years still.
flySFO From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 92 posts, RR: 0 Reply 165, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6449 times:
Once terminal 3-E is reopened, will the new tenants be US, AC, and UA? Will UA still need to use the 5 or so gates it is using as overflow in 1-B right now?
Assuming the above scenario, who would be left in terminal 1? By my count it would be AS, WN, HA, DL, and F9. WN would finally have the room to expand by taking a full rotunda in 1-B, who would take the other one?
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 166, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6455 times:
When Pier E reopens, it will have a total of 10 Gates. It is my understand that AC and US will move over and I am sure UA will be in there also. What is still a mystery is if US merges with AA. It is unlikely the new AA will split their operations but I am not sure if there would be room for them at T-2.
Also, a few years out, is the total refurbishment of T1.
Quoting flySFO (Reply 165): Assuming the above scenario, who would be left in terminal 1? By my count it would be AS, WN, HA,
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 167, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6293 times:
The BAT did a nice story on SQ A380 arrival into SFO. Pictures and story provided by BAT.
Last Friday (Dec 28), a giant double-decker Singapore Airlines Airbus A380 arrived at San Francisco International from Hong Kong at 7:10pm, marking the first A380 flights between SFO and Asia. (SFO has seen A380s from Lufthansa and Air France previously.) Singapore Airlines is offering this “pop-up” service on the San Francisco>Hong Kong>Singapore route between now and March 24 only– and will switch back to standard Boeing 777 service after that.)
To mark the occasion, Singapore held a reception at the gate for its flight SQ 1, departing at 11:48pm for Hong Kong and then continuing on to Singapore. There were 438 passengers on the departing flight, with eight in the jumbo’s well-known luxury suites (first class); 45 in business class, and 385 in economy class.
The big bird departs from gate 101 at SFO’s international terminal– specially designed to accommodate passengers entering the upper and lower levels. When boarding, economy class passengers take an escalator down to the lower level for boarding. Business and first class passengers board from the terminal’s main level via a third jetway connected to the plane’s upper deck. (See photo)
Unlike other carriers, Singapore’s seat configuration on the A380-800 has its 12 first class suites at the front end of the lower deck, with 311 economy class seats behind. Upstairs, there are 60 business class seats in the front end of the deck, then 88 economy class seats behind that. (Here’s a link to the configuration.) There are staircases at both the front and the rear of the aircraft.
UA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 168, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6275 times:
Is there any special reason SQ is flying the 380 to SFO? Or just because they can and maybe testing the waters for future service?
For UA - a SFO-BLR route would probably be highly yielding from the start (no data to back this up, just anecdotal experience on this route). Of course, their JV with LH will suffer slightly - as currently they feed pax via LH at FRA.
Alternatively (as someone suggested), EWR-BLR would fit in well with EWR as being the hub of choice for India ops.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 170, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6179 times:
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 168): Is there any special reason SQ is flying the 380 to SFO? Or just because they can and maybe testing the waters for future service?
SFO's a major Star hub, would be my guess...coupled with downgauging the JFK route for the winter. I'm hoping there's also an element of testing the waters, and I would love to see SQ happy enough with the up-gauge to SFO to make it year-round
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 171, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6144 times:
Quoting warden145 (Reply 170): SFO's a major Star hub, would be my guess...coupled with downgauging the JFK route for the winter.
Yes, the A380 came from JFK and the 77W went to JFK from SFO.
They had some pretty cheap fares from SFO to HKG and I can imagine this is the reason for the high LF.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 172, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5828 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 169): For UA - a SFO-BLR route would probably be highly yielding from the start (no data to back this up, just anecdotal experience on this route). Of course, their JV with LH will suffer slightly - as currently they feed pax via LH at FRA.
Alternatively (as someone suggested), EWR-BLR would fit in well with EWR as being the hub of choice for India ops.
Even if there is some business traffic between the Silicon Valley and Bangalore, is the market large enough? it seems strange to operate that route without having any other California-India flights, especially with SFO-BLR being longer than SFO-DEL and really pushing the limits of the 788.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 174, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5783 times:
Quoting irishair98 (Reply 173): would EI ever restart SFO is the demand there ??
I do not believe EI will restart SFO or the West Coast in the foreseeable future. There was talk that they were looking at the route last year but the economics did not work out. various chambers and business groups on both sides of the Atlantic petitioned them but to no avail.
I was thinking that UA may have a chance with a 2 class 767. They are restarting CDG this Spring using this type of aircraft.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 176, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5731 times:
Quoting irishair98 (Reply 175): EI have stated they are looking to expand on there long haul in the coming years and in my opinion SFO and YYZ would be first on EI 's list.
I agree. It would be nice to see the green shamrock at SFO again.
likewise i was in SFO last month returning to DUB and it was th ebiggest pain ever connecting in ORD and nearly missing my flight back. It would have been nice to fly back to DUB direct from SFO .
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3078 posts, RR: 9 Reply 178, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5684 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 172): Even if there is some business traffic between the Silicon Valley and Bangalore, is the market large enough? it seems strange to operate that route without having any other California-India flights, especially with SFO-BLR being longer than SFO-DEL and really pushing the limits of the 788.
Market is certainly large enough - again based on anecdotal inputs only.
SFO-DEL would work well as well, but then they already have EWR-DEL. Hence perhaps an EWR-BLR service is a better option than SFO-DEL.
For BLR - a SFO-NRT/HKG-BLR routing would be interesting - utilizing their Asian hubs to tag on an additional sector to BLR. That way the entire flight can be on their own metal and retain the hubbing benefits at their Asian hubs.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 179, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5656 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 178): For BLR - a SFO-NRT/HKG-BLR routing would be interesting - utilizing their Asian hubs to tag on an additional sector to BLR. That way the entire flight can be on their own metal and retain the hubbing benefits at their Asian hubs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't UA have an around the World Flight a few years ago that connected through HKG to DEL and onto LHR? I may be off on the routing but I believe DEL was in there somewhere.
On a side note, I believe this would be a good route for AI and their 787. Even though the mass of people is there, 9W failed at stimulating the traffic using a 77W. There were other reasons but it always dumbfounded me why this service never took off, so to speak.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 180, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5646 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 179): On a side note, I believe this would be a good route for AI and their 787. Even though the mass of people is there, 9W failed at stimulating the traffic using a 77W. There were other reasons but it always dumbfounded me why this service never took off, so to speak.
IIRC 9W pulled out right about the time the recession hit...I don't know how the route did throughout its short lifespan, but could the recession have played a significant role?
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 181, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5627 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 179): Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't UA have an around the World Flight a few years ago that connected through HKG to DEL and onto LHR? I may be off on the routing but I believe DEL was in there somewhere.
That was the old RTW flights 1/2. The last time it operated I believe it was IAD-LHR-DEL-HKG-LAX-IAD (the other flight went the other direction) mostly on a 744, although it had different stops and different gauges over the years. I recall that the segments to DEL had to be a smaller aircraft or had very restrictive capacity rules. 1 & 2 may have passed through SFO at one time or another.
Like China, demand to India turned out to be weaker than expected. When the open skies deal was signed, carriers rushed to India and several withdrew some flights and some went into bankruptcy. You can get there in one stop on LH to several destinations in India. SFO-BLR or DEL would be marginal at best on UA.
hereandthere41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 182, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5523 times:
If I'm not mistaken, UA 1/2 operated JFK-LHR-DEL-HKG-LAX-JFK, not via IAD. I believe the LAX-JFK-LHR-DEL portion was flown on a 762/763 while DEL-HKG-LAX was a 744. This was when JFK still had intl flying including NRT, LHR, EZE, GRU/GIG, CCS, and SJU.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 183, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5523 times:
American carriers have had lots of trouble with India in the past. In the past U.S. carriers served India from ORD, JFK, and ATL, but these routes were cut recently. UA has probably realized that they can't compete with EK, QR, TK etc. on India and will instead focus on other markets. SFO-DEL/BLR is not impossible, but I doubt it can work.
Wouldn't SFO-BCN/MAD be too seasonal and reliant on low-yielding tourist traffic.
hereandthere41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 184, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5514 times:
Times have changed drastically. Much of the flying is done with feed from alliance partners. On the daily SFO-FRA flight, the majority of the plane is connecting onto LH flights to India, Africa and Eastern Europe. I doubt we'll see any major deviance from the current plan of building on strengths, instead of experimenting with long, thin routes with narrow margins.
AirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 270 posts, RR: 0 Reply 185, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5440 times:
Interesting maneuver of a United 747 over Pacific/Presidio Heights at about noon today. It was much lower than normal and turned from about 360 degrees to due west when I lost sight of it. I thought perhaps it was a publicity flight for shots over the Golden Gate Bridge.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 186, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5381 times:
In the eveningtime, that's a fairly common procedure. I can hear them directly over my house often.
I used to have a chart of the arrivals and departures.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 187, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5326 times:
Being an aviation enthusiast , low flying and possibly noisy commercial aviation aircraft does not bother me. My neighbor, however, hates it and always sends an email to the SFO noise abatement office. He showed me one of their responses one time and they give the airline name, flight altitude, speed and agrees with the divination of the flight path.
AirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 270 posts, RR: 0 Reply 188, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5323 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 186): In the eveningtime, that's a fairly common procedure. I can hear them directly over my house often.
I used to have a chart of the arrivals and departures.
NS
Yep, you can practically set your watch by the various Europe-bound afternoon departures. But this was extra low and a bit early in the day.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 189, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5187 times:
As part of a Federal mandated program to extend runways for a safety barrier, SFO will shut down various runways on the weekends. This will impact operations and affect mostly short haul flights. details below:
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 190, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5062 times:
With the global expansion of the Middle Eastern carriers, I am very doubtful of a new India-U.S. nonstop service anytime soon, period. If UA hasn't launched BLR from EWR yet, why would they fly SFO-BLR?
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 191, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5025 times:
Because they haven't yet had the right plane, first off.
Second off, SFO-BLR would cater to a very, very specific market that is extremely high in yield.
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1835 posts, RR: 0 Reply 193, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4970 times:
Quoting hereandthere41 (Reply 182): If I'm not mistaken, UA 1/2 operated JFK-LHR-DEL-HKG-LAX-JFK, not via IAD.
Yes, it did go through JFK at one time but my recollection of the last time it operated, it was through IAD. I recall taking the LAX-IAD segment several times. UA gave up on their push into JFK and LGA and slowly moved flights to IAD. Stalwarts like JFK-NRT and JFK-LHR bit the dust.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 194, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4954 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 191): Because they haven't yet had the right plane, first off.
Second off, SFO-BLR would cater to a very, very specific market that is extremely high in yield.
If you have any actual numerical data on yields, I would be very interested.
SFO-DEL already pushes the limits of the 788, so would SFO-BLR even be doable nonstop both ways?
Also, even if there are some business ties between the Silicon Valley and Bangalore, are there enough pax to fill an entire plane (even a 788—it's not that big of a difference compared to a 772, though ).
The 787 may be second only to the 747 for me, but it can certainly not accomplish as many new routes as A*nutters generally say. The fact is, airlines generally tend to concentrate their international operations to certain areas at one or two hub airports, as UA has done with EWR-India (just as AA has no LAX/ORD-South America service, DL has no Asia service apart from NRT—not even ICN!—from ATL, etc.). Considering that three or four major cities on the West Coast have demand to at least five or six major cities in India, covering only the city pair SFO-BLR would not help for pax flying LAX-BOM, SEA-HYD, etc. UA has no exisiting flights to BLR, even from EWR, and no SFO-DEL/BOM flights.
UA often has trouble capturing high-yielding business pax on EWR-BOM/DEL, with many regular business travelers opting to fly BA, LH, etc. instead due to superior service, so that would certainly not help yields. Finally, until someone invents a new plane that can can connect any two points on Earth in any season with a full load cheaply, ULH routes will continue to be problematic—with the exception of SYD-DFW which is already a challenge, ULH routes have taken huge blows in the past few years.
Again, I'm not saying that SFO-BLR is not possible—IT even announced the route in 2007 but didn't launch—but I doubt that it can overcome the stated obstacles.
Finally, think of the poor, sad LH 747-8is to BLR that would end up being empty...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22054 posts, RR: 51 Reply 195, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4956 times:
Greetings from SoCal.
Let me add a bit more color to various comments here.
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 31): How serious is TK's desire to fly to SFO? It seems like a good 3x weekly 77W route to offer connections to India and the Middle East.
TK as its required to do for regulatory reasons announces a "wish list" of markets it is looking at.
If/when SFO starts up the minimum frequency would be 4x weekly. That tends to be the minimum TK finds viable.
Only prob with SFO, is that the local SFO-Turkey market is only about 40% of the size of the LAX-Turkey market, so TK would need to work much harder on generating transfer traffic flow from the Bay Area.
Quoting legacyins (Reply 90):
Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?
Delhi
Ho Chi Minh
Montreal
Mumbai
Rome
Tel Aviv
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 136): On another note, if the A380 is too much plane for FRA-SFO, will LH consider sending the 747-8i to SFO?
I'm also surprised that SFO-FRA is larger than LAX-FRA.
LH tends to use SFO has a transfer hub across the Western US and to places like Hawaii. LH LAX flights are much more focused on local traffic. The underlying local markets to Germany are larger from LA basin then Bay Area.
LH also stated its 748s were meant for markets that drove more business demand, while A380 worked better on routes with heavier leisure component.
Quoting Nimish (Reply 178): SFO-DEL would work well as well, but then they already have EWR-DEL. Hence perhaps an EWR-BLR service is a better option than SFO-DEL.
Well Delhi is the Bay Area's largest directly unserved market. But its a heck of a long way nonstop (7700mi).
Considering economic difficulties with ULH services, can probably be better served 1-stop basis or with connection with partners (see my comments below).
Quoting Nimish (Reply 178): For BLR - a SFO-NRT/HKG-BLR routing would be interesting - utilizing their Asian hubs to tag on an additional sector to BLR. That way the entire flight can be on their own metal and retain the hubbing benefits at their Asian hubs.
Anything done via Asia would be in cooperation with ANA as part of the carriers JV pact and would almost certainly operate utilizing NH equipment.
For info UA/NH just commenced NRT-DEL in October as part of the venture.
Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 192): What is the demand from NYC-BLR vs. Bay Area-BLR?
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 196, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4940 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 195): Well Delhi is the Bay Area's largest directly unserved market. But its a heck of a long way nonstop (7700mi).
Considering economic difficulties with ULH services, can probably be better served 1-stop basis or with connection with partners (see my comments below).
Bingo. Again, BLR is even further than DEL. Out of the 97 daily passengers, I doubt that too many of them would be ready to pay a huge premium to fly nonstop rather than via FRA, LHR, DXB, or SIN (an out-of-the way transfer point, yet a popular one for airline quality-conscious business pax).
Out of the list of top unserved destinations, all of them has either yields or distance as the erason for lack of service.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 197, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4729 times:
What are the PDEW numbers for SFO-DEL and SFO-BOM?
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 199, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4664 times:
Quoting questions (Reply 198):
When is the remodel and reconstruction work on Terminal 1 scheduled to begin/end?
The Terminal 1 remodel is a long term plan and is in line to start after the pier E remodel going on now.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 200, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4561 times:
Nice piece in The Chronicle about ANA starting service to NRT this coming Friday. They do mention SFO and the contrasts between the two airports.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22054 posts, RR: 51 Reply 201, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4474 times:
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 202, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4497 times:
Kinda interesting how much more demand skews for Delhi in the Bay Area. In comparison from LA basin, both Delhi and Mumbai are virtually equal.
That's ineteresting. So even if Bangalore-Silicon Valley is a market with lots of business demand, planes can't be filled on it. SFO-DEL would be an interesting route, and some LAX-originating pax might prefer a domestic connection in SFO to an international connection between two longhauls. The flight is long but not undoably long; however UA would have to try hard to gain corporate contracts (and not offend LH), in addition to having a product on par with top foreign airlines.
Maybe NH will steal some of the SFO-DEL market, since they launched DEL last year and are about to launch SJC in addition to their existing SFO presence.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22054 posts, RR: 51 Reply 203, posted (4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4467 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 202): Maybe NH will steal some of the SFO-DEL market, since they launched DEL last year and are about to launch SJC in addition to their existing SFO presence.
The NRT-DEL route was launched as part of the UA/NH JV (similar to how NRT-MNL).
Nearly 50% of the enplanements are transpac feed at the moment.
Not sure why UA would look to do SFO-DEL on its own, when it seemingly has something good (and much lower risk) running with ANA at the moment.
The new NRT-DEL segment finally returns to UA a good inhouse transpac link that was lost when the HKG-DEL segment was dropped with UA1/2 going away.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 204, posted (4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4299 times:
I checked and NH has short connection times on SFO-NRT-DEL. NH should launch BLR and time it to connect with the SJC flight.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 205, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4265 times:
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 206, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 205): That doesn't surprise me, and if you match it with United's connecting traffic, SFO-DEL probably has the traffic to drive a 787.
Don't overestimate the connecting traffic—LAX is the only reasonably sized market to India which would make sense for connections. The flight would still rely primarily on Bay Area O&D.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2309 posts, RR: 7 Reply 207, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4217 times:
Does anybody know what gate NH is going to use at SJC? 15 or 16? Will check-in be in Terminal A, or Terminal B (the latter of which is much nicer)?
Hopefully Tom or one of you guys down there can get some good photos on Friday. I'm stoked for it and I'm not even down there now.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 208, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4198 times:
Second off, SFO-BLR would cater to a very, very specific market that is extremely high in yield.
NS[/quote]
The India based airlines are such a mess financially, I don't see either of them starting SFO-India services in the near term. The 787s would definitely be a right size a/c for them, and the money they could make.......!
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 195): Only prob with SFO, is that the local SFO-Turkey market is only about 40% of the size of the LAX-Turkey market, so TK would need to work much harder on generating transfer traffic flow from the Bay Area.
Perhaps, TK should get a few 77Ls in the mean time, and perhaps order the 787s so they would have a right size a/c for SFO-IST. It seems like the 77W will be too much a/c at present.
Kinda interesting how much more demand skews for Delhi in the Bay Area. In comparison from LA basin, both Delhi and Mumbai are virtually equal.
The 787 would be a perfect a/c for these markets. I would think the yields would be higher too since the capacity would be limited on an a/c such as the 787-8.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 209, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4184 times:
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 206): Don't overestimate the connecting traffic—LAX is the only reasonably sized market to India which would make sense for connections. The flight would still rely primarily on Bay Area O&D.
I am not so sure. I'd think Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, and the like make sense as connecting markets.
DolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 210, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4162 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 209): I am not so sure. I'd think Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, and the like make sense as connecting markets.
NS
Is SEA-SFO-DEL much shorter than SEA-DXB-DEL (to speak nothing of pax going to BOM, BLR, HYD, etc?) And I mean, how many PDEW is PHX-DEL? Probably not a ton.
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1837 posts, RR: 0 Reply 211, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4126 times:
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From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 220 posts, 
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nice to see the SFO area finally get some love...now, if only someone (WN or VX) would start an SFO-BUR flight to compete with UA Express's ridiculous fares...
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I like that plan. Liquid refreshments are always in order when engaging in our other favorite hobbies - namely watching airplanes. hope you guys plan it when I'm in town, so I can join in. Otherwise, SEA isn't a bad place to watch plane either - especially if you happen to like somber looking Eskimos.
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