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SFO Aviation Thread Part 1  
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 16235 times:

Hello fellow A.nutters,

I am planning to relocate to the environs of SFO next year, and with all the changes coming to SFO and the rest of the Bay Area I thought it would be best to create a full discussion thread.

So far we know:
*NH will be launching NRT-SJC on the 788 on Jan. 11.
*UA will be launching CDG, TPE, and FLL.
*TK has SFO as part of a large wishlist.
*AA will move from the 762/763 to the 321 in 2014, and DL will soon move to the 762.
*VX is interested in further expansion.
*UA to GRU has been rumored but not from a formal source.

In terms of aircraft up/downgauges, is the LH 388 here to stay? Also, will AF resend the 388, and when will CX move to all 77W? Has LA announced f they will send the 788 to SFO?

Post any thoughts here!

238 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 16252 times:

What kind of expantion do you think VX wants to do

TPA,CLT,BNA,DEN,PHX maybe


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 16247 times:

I believe SAS will be starting service in the spring with their beautiful A340s.



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Chen Sheng Kun




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinemodesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2767 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 16221 times:

Point of clarification regarding DL at SFO. DL no longer operates the 762 and will maintain 752 (75E subfleet) equipment on JFKSFO.

User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 16202 times:

Ah yes, I forgot SK. Is the DL 762 only going JFK-LAX then?

As for VX, do they feed VS's 744 to LHR from SAN, PHX etc.?


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):

Dude VX doesn't even fly to PHX and VS doesn't even fly to SAN or PHX

Also DL doesn't operate the 762 anymore


User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 3512 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 16081 times:

I'm flying SFO-NRT and SYD-SFO in February and am stuck on the old 747-400 for both legs. I typically don't poo-poo any chance to fly a 744, but since I'm not in J the experience won't exactly be pleasant, especially for 11 and 13 hours at a time.

Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineshengzhurou From China, joined May 2010, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 16041 times:

SQ will operate A380 on the SFO-HKG flight soon, CX will is keeping the 744 for a while, since their SFO base crew are 747 only, a triple daily 77W could happen if more loads on business class. UA's 744 are mainland base out from SFO in which I tried to avoid for going NRT or HKG. No Hawaii for VX at the moment until the ETOPS A320 arrive, rumor that they have frozen the ETOPS program. we still see KLM's MD11 in the winter.


Sheng Zhu Rou
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 15983 times:

Southwest-I thought VX flew to PHX. Oops.
My question, which may have been phrased confusingly, is whether VS and VX codeshare on each other's flights for routings where VS operates LHR-SFO and VX operates SFO-smaller city.
Overall, is VX ex-SFO interested in any connecting traffic or only point-to-point?


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 15969 times:

Also, is there any chance AI will launch their strange DEL-SIN-SFO flight as they suggested?

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4312 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15893 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Any one know how WN is performing in SFO? Certainly must be decent as they have added a little over the past few years since the station was opened (unlike IAD which has been cut since station opening). Is there any terminal/ramp space for them to add additional flights? I would expect any expansion by any airline will be fairly limited in SFO due to delays and limited space.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15881 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 6):
Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO

SFO will remain 747-400s to Tokyo.  
Enjoy the 747s while you can. The new interiors on UA are just fine in coach. I've done the SFO-NRT leg in the new coach and it was fine.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 6):
will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?

All the other UA NRT destinations will be downgraded to a 777.
LAX will downgrade to a 787.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15844 times:

Greetings from the desert  
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
TPA,CLT,BNA,DEN,PHX maybe

I keep hearing about VX starting up at PHX from SFO but everyone I have talked to has drawn so much speculation to the profitability of it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
SFO will remain 747-400s to Tokyo.

Love it  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15848 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I believe SAS will be starting service in the spring with their beautiful A340s.



Yes, will be CPH-SFO 6x weekly beginning April 8.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15820 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Yes, will be CPH-SFO 6x weekly beginning April 8.

Sadly they're dropping Bangkok.
I lived in San Francisco for 15 years and SAS always 'talked' about coming to San Francisco and nothing happened. Then I move to Bangkok and now SAS is dropping Bangkok in favor of San Francisco.
SAS doesn't like me.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15827 times:

Welcome to SFO Dolphin

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 9):

Also, is there any chance AI will launch their strange DEL-SIN-SFO flight as they suggested?

No

Quoting planespotting (Reply 6):
nyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?

The 747's are all being moved to SFO. There will be 2 flights operating from LAX, but rotated back when need to SFO for maintenance.



Quoting iowaman (Reply 10):
Any one know how WN is performing in SFO?

They are doing well according to an inside source. However I don't see much expansion while they merger/transition continues with AirTran. Also, they have no additional gate space available to them.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I believe SAS will be starting service in the spring with their beautiful A340s.

Service begins April 8th with 6 weekly (X2) CPH

An addition to this, China Eastern has express they will start service April 6th SFO-PEK

http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/14/mu-sfo-s13/

On an exciting note for UA, the steel for concourse E has arrived and is starting to go up. We should see the full frame work doen in the coming months.

The new ATC tower is well underway between T-1 and T-2. I don't know the timeframe for when you will see the structure moving up. Currently the underground work is being done, but there has been a 200 ft crane in place for about 2 weeks, so could be soon for a frame to show.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15821 times:

Nice thread.

A couple of other notes.

MU will restart their PVG-SFO service coming April on a daily A332.

UN applied for seasonal service twice a week this coming Spring.

Non aviation but airport related. SFO will once again have an onsite Hotel. It will be located in a current overflow lot near the A- Pier of the International Terminal. It will not be connected to the Terminal but I would expect the air train to be reconfigured to allow access. No word on the operator.



John@SFO
User currently offlinePSA727LAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15805 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 6):
Quoting planespotting (Reply 6):
Anyone know the timeline on the 747-400s as the main TranPac metal for UA (out of SFO and LAX), and will the replacements end up as two 787s for one 744, or just shifting currently in-fleet 777s around to reduce capacity overall?

Per another thread last week on 787s out of SFO & LAX it appears UA plans on using the 787 exclusively out of LAX and will continue the 744/777 out of SFO. The 777 rules the roost at SFO for long haul routes across the Pacific.

Per AA & VX they both are enjoyin the new T2 but not sure that VX has any firm expansion plans for Q1 of 2013. My guess is they will have a formal announcement in mid January regarding new slot pairings. I know that SMF has been courting them for the new Terminal B. AA most likely will need to sort out the issue of merge or not before they offer up any new slot pairs.


User currently offlinepanpan From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15805 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Yes, will be CPH-SFO 6x weekly beginning April 8.

I hope this route does well. SAS has a great product and CPH is a wonderful airport to arrive in/connect through.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 15802 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 15):
An addition to this, China Eastern has express they will start service April 6th SFO-PEK

Nice!
Great to see some more 4-engine aircraft coming to San Francisco.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 15785 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 16):

You beat me to the correction Legs. PVG!!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 15784 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 16):
Non aviation but airport related. SFO will once again have an onsite Hotel. It will be located in a current overflow lot near the A- Pier of the International Terminal. It will not be connected to the Terminal but I would expect the air train to be reconfigured to allow access. No word on the operator.

Funny you mention that. I dropped my wife of this morning at 4am to work a flight and the lot was being used with a bus operating through it. They got that lot up and running fast.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 15772 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Sadly they're dropping Bangkok.



In order to operate SFO SAS have to drop a long haul destination because of the limited long haul fleet.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 15752 times:

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 17):
The 777 rules the roost at SFO for long haul routes across the Pacific.

Very much the opposite. The 747 will be the dominate bird T-PAC

This summer. Daily 747 across the Pacific

SFO-NRT 747
SFO-KIX 747 (as of June)
SFO-ICN 747
SFO-PVG 747
SFO-PEK 747
SFO-HKG 747
SFO-SYD 747

and

SFO-NRT 777
SFO-TPE 777

In addition to T-PAC this summer

SFO-FRA 747 (2 daily
SFO-LHR 747 daily in addition to a 777



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 15743 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 23):
Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 17):
The 777 rules the roost at SFO for long haul routes across the Pacific.


Very much the opposite. The 747 will be the dominate bird T-PAC

Isnt the whole UA 747 fleet going to be based at SFO?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 16227 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 24):

Yes, your correct. All other flight will rotate the 747's to/back from SFO as needed. The ORD 747 pilot base is in the process of closing as well.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 16167 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 25):
All other flight will rotate the 747's to/back from SFO as needed. The ORD 747 pilot base is in the process of closing as well.



Then the 744 will only do SFO-XXX-SFO rotations?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 16440 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 26):

Most of the time. Most flights will return to SFO. The SYD flight could rotate back to LAX to support the LAX-SYD flight.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 16375 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 27):
Most of the time. Most flights will return to SFO. The SYD flight could rotate back to LAX to support the LAX-SYD flight.



Oh, of course, I forgot about the LAX-SYD 744. Should have known that one.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 16425 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):

I am planning to relocate to the environs of SFO next year,

Welcome to town! What brings you here?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I believe SAS will be starting service in the spring with their beautiful A340s

Woot! A340's make me so happy.  
Quoting as739x (Reply 23):

SFO-FRA 747 (2 daily
SFO-LHR 747 daily in addition to a 777

SFO-LHR has a UA 744 and UA 777, two BA 744's and a VS 744.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 16348 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 21):
Funny you mention that. I dropped my wife of this morning at 4am to work a flight and the lot was being used with a bus operating through it. They got that lot up and running fast.

They certainly did. They have light polls and everything.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 16237 times:

@Doc—I won't move until (most likely) the fall but I'll be studying in the Bay Area.

How serious is TK's desire to fly to SFO? It seems like a good 3x weekly 77W route to offer connections to India and the Middle East. Neither EY nor QR has announced a flight to California yet so TK could fill that gap. Also, as a *A hub SFO must have lots of *A FFs.

For an out-of-the-box idea, what about BA sending a 788 (though the 763 has the legs) to SJC?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 16170 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 31):

@Doc—I won't move until (most likely) the fall but I'll be studying in the Bay Area.

This wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Stanford released their Early Admission decisions on Friday, would it?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 16174 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 31):
For an out-of-the-box idea, what about BA sending a 788 (though the 763 has the legs) to SJC?

Why?
They send two 747s daily to SFO which is just 35 miles away from SJC.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 16129 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
Why?
They send two 747s daily to SFO which is just 35 miles away from SJC



Well BA and AA have together 13 daily flights to JFK, and yet BA sends another 3 daily flights to EWR. Distance between JFK and EWR, 21 miles.

It might not be a fair comparison, because the NYC market is much larger, but point is, there might still be a demand for a SJC flight to LHR in the future, even if it is so close to SFO.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 16041 times:

@B747, that was my analysis as well. I fly NYC-CDG a lot and the fact that BA serves both EWR and ORY in addition to JFK and CDG is a huge plus. San Jose is a large city, and the Silicon Valley area has large links (both wealthy VFR and business) to places like IKA, BOM, BLR etc. Being the only longhaul carrier at an airport certainly helps, and BA would get this at SJC (NH doesn't count because with the exception of California-India, BA and NH don't connect on similar routes.

I know that in NJ many people will pay a premium to avoid flying out of JFK, is that the case with SJC in the South Bay or is SJC's international network too weak for that to be a question?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15992 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 35):
is that the case with SJC in the South Bay or is SJC's international network too weak for that to be a question?

SFO is a great airport and I rarely hear of complaints about catching flights out of SFO. It's only problem is fog.
SJC is much smaller and smaller than EWR.
AA used to have a 777 to NRT out of SJC but I can't think of any international service out of SJC to Europe or Asia.
There may be service to Mexico but I'm not sure.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15945 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
AA used to have a 777 to NRT out of SJC but I can't think of any international service out of SJC to Europe or Asia.
There may be service to Mexico but I'm not sure.

AA also did SJC-CDG and SJC-TPE for about 6 monhts in 2001. 9/11 helped end that. As you noted, Asia did in fact have international service from SJC since NRT is in Asia. CDG was SJC's only Europe non-stop ever.

AA was about to start LGW and GDL about the same time, but it never happened. If it had, AA would have had international flights from SJC to LGW, CDG, NRT, TPE and GDL.

SJC currently has GDL on AS and Volaris and SJD on AS, the latter being seasonal. MX also flew to Morelia and I think MEX at one time. AS also once had seasonal service to PVR. AC did YYZ for several years and YOW for a very short time (for high tech traffic). QQ, Air Cal, AA and Canadian Regional Airlines each did SJC-YVR at one time or another. There in no current Canada service from SJC.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15922 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
SFO is a great airport and I rarely hear of complaints about catching flights out of SFO. It's only problem is fog.

That "only" is a big problem. If the weather isn't clear, delays of ~3h are pretty common. Leaving that aside, SFO is a great airport.

SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15783 times:

I guess. So do you think NH's SJC flight will be able to hold?

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15830 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.

A friend of mine lives near the 92/280 interchange in San Mateo. He used to fly out of SJC, over SFO, for business trips to places like NRT and BOS because he felt it was so much more convenient to get in and out of than SFO. San Mateo is much closer to SFO than SJC, yet here's an example of someone who preferred SJC.

What's the cachement area for SJC itself, something like 2 million people?


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 15796 times:

Well, if every other day the NH flight gets two Silicon Valley businessmen going to Tokyo who are ready to pay a premium to have only a 10 minute drive to the airport, that in itself may turn the flight from money-bleeding to profitable. However, I'm sure that only NH management knows the profitability of their own flights.

User currently onlineUA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months ago) and read 15685 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.

I think that SJC could really benefit from the proposed (controversial?) BART extension into Santa Clara county, with a similar BART arrangement as SFO. I'm sure that they would be able to draw business pax from SFO and the rest of the Bay Area looking to escape the roulette-esque delays at SFO. Heck, I used to know businessmen from my old digs up in Berkeley who were willing to make the hour-long drive to SJC to bypass SFO.
But then again, that was around 11 years ago when SJC still had transpacific service.... Under the same situation, though, I also think that SJC could capture leisure pax from SFO if the Y fares were low enough to be competitive with OAK.

[Edited 2012-12-17 16:51:36]

[Edited 2012-12-17 16:53:52]


A or B? I'll stick with MD...
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months ago) and read 15617 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 39):
I guess. So do you think NH's SJC flight will be able to hold?

I don't see why not. AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC. The 787 is a smaller airplane and very economical to operate. I assume that NH has done their homework and traffic projections and are marketing and advertising very well. From what I know of NH, those folks at HND are not dummies. If they let San Jose talk them into flying into SJC, I expect that they feel it will be successful and be able to hold.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months ago) and read 15566 times:

Well, I still didn't find out where you just found out you'll be studying. Hoping it is, indeed, my alma mater.  

We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.


User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15444 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 43):
I don't see why not. AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC. The 787 is a smaller airplane and very economical to operate. I assume that NH has done their homework and traffic projections and are marketing and advertising very well. From what I know of NH, those folks at HND are not dummies. If they let San Jose talk them into flying into SJC, I expect that they feel it will be successful and be able to hold.

Couple that with the fact that a large percentage of the Bay Area's senior executives live in the South Bay, and many of them would love nothing more than to be able to bypass SFO in favor of SJC, I suspect that NH's service will do well.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
That "only" is a big problem. If the weather isn't clear, delays of ~3h are pretty common. Leaving that aside, SFO is a great airport.

What he said. I don't fly as much as I'd like to these days, but my job has me practically living at SFO, and I regularly have the "pleasure" of sitting around and waiting 3 or 4 hours for pax on the delayed flights. "Frustrating" is an understatement...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.

You make a good point; OTOH I think there's enough of a population base in the South Bay that I think SJC can still be a viable alternative, especially since a considerable portion of the Bay Area's wealth is in the South Bay (Saratoga, Los Gatos, Los Altos, etc). The biggest issue is a lack of service...I've lost track of how many clients I've driven who've flown out of SFO but would have preferred SJC...

BTW, good thread    nice to see the SFO area finally get some love...now, if only someone (WN or VX) would start an SFO-BUR flight to compete with UA Express's ridiculous fares...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15484 times:

As we all know, SQ will start service into SFO this month on SQ 1/2 using their A380. I snapped these shots at SFO of a display. Out of curiosity, how much does one of these models cost? I would say a couple of thousand.









John@SFO
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15371 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 45):
Couple that with the fact that a large percentage of the Bay Area's senior executives live in the South Bay, and many of them would love nothing more than to be able to bypass SFO in favor of SJC, I suspect that NH's service will do well.

Another question is would these CEO types settle for J as the NH flight will not have an F class? IMO, the new SJC flight is not really a new market for NH but an extension of their SFO flight. NH has added double daily into JFK,LAX and ORD(?) the last year or so.

SFO still handles 90% + of the nonstop International traffic into the Bay Area.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 43):
AA's SJC-NRT flight used to do very well until AA gave up on SJC.

AA is on record stating the flight was losing money the last couple of years before cancellation. After the LAX-NRT flight was added and the pull down of the SJC hub, it was a natural goner.



John@SFO
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15341 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 46):
As we all know, SQ will start service into SFO this month on SQ 1/2 using their A380. I snapped these shots at SFO of a display. Out of curiosity, how much does one of these models cost? I would say a couple of thousand.

Where is this connecting to? HKG?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15320 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 48):
Where is this connecting to? HKG?

Yes, routing is SIN-HKG-SFO



John@SFO
User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15217 times:

@ DolphinAir747, welcome to the Bay Area in advance!

@ DocLightning, an SFO meetup sounds fun! I enjoy going to the park opposite the Westin, especially when the heavies to Europe or Asia are leaving the A gates!

I am debating on whether to fly the NH B788 to NRT to DEL or the SQ WhaleJet.... Lets see what the price gods say early next year!

9V-SPJ

[Edited 2012-12-17 18:19:23]

User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15193 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 47):
Another question is would these CEO types settle for J as the NH flight will not have an F class?

That's a fair question and I'm not sure as to the answer. However, I get the impression that it's getting more and more difficult for corporate travelers (except those at the VERY top) to even be allowed to fly Business, let alone First Class, so I'm not sure how much of an effect that'll have.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 47):
SFO still handles 90% + of the nonstop International traffic into the Bay Area.

That is true, and I would be very surprised if that changed. However, I think a few SJC flights would be successful as a niche.

Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?

[Edited 2012-12-17 18:21:37]


ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14970 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 51):
Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?

They may be trying a AF move and bring it in to test the market. AF brought in their A380 last summer season due to the Japan tragedy and drop off in traffic. SQ was using their A380 on the JFK run but I tend to believe the traffic drops off during the Winter season from Europe. LH extended their A380 into SFO through the Holiday season.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14509 times:

9V, how about via FRA so you can get the A380 and the 747-8i? However, that does require connecting at FEA

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14456 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Quoting as739x (Reply 15):
An addition to this, China Eastern has express they will start service April 6th SFO-PEK

Nice!
Great to see some more 4-engine aircraft coming to San Francisco.

Will be a A332. So only 2 engines.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14373 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 47):
AA is on record stating the flight was losing money the last couple of years before cancellation. After the LAX-NRT flight was added and the pull down of the SJC hub, it was a natural goner.

At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).

I see it as being better as a domestic hub. SFO has better connections to Bay Area transit, domestic connections, etc. etc. etc.


User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

@ DolphinAir747... hadn't looked at LH, but having just looked now, its about $500 more than SIA!

Lets see if the price goes down!

Thanks for the suggestion  


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14326 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 55):
At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).

Yes, NH will start service on the NRT-SJC route next month. The layout of NH's 787 is 46J and 112 Y. One thing that might help this flight is the connections out of NRT and any cargo that may be carried.



John@SFO
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14299 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 57):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 55):
At present SJC-NRT might be able to support a 787 daily. I think JL is going to give it a try (or is it NH?).

Yes, NH will start service on the NRT-SJC route next month. The layout of NH's 787 is 46J and 112 Y. One thing that might help this flight is the connections out of NRT and any cargo that may be carried.

One downside is that NH won't have any connections at SJC. At most there might be a UA SJC-DEN connection.

AA had connections from the NRT-SJC flight to SNA, SAN, LAX, AUS, LAS, BOS, DFW, SEA, etc. But as I said, I'm still optimistic that it will work, or NH wouldn't be starting it. From what I know of NH, they are a well-run airline with smart leadership.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14281 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 58):
One downside is that NH won't have any connections at SJC. At most there might be a UA SJC-DEN connection.

This is why I believe it will primarily be O&D on the SJC side. NH can use SFO as their connection points to the rest of the US.



John@SFO
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14172 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 51):
Re: SQ's A380 service, IIRC it's being started as a seasonal service. I want to say that it's ending in March, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Does anyone know if it's going to be permanently seasonal, or is this a trial period to see if it works and may become permanent later?


It is just a seasonal change. The SIN-HKG-SFO A380s are coming from SIN-FRA-JFK, which gets the 77W Dec 28 until Mar 23.
After Mar 23 the aircrafts are swapped again so SIN-JFK goes back to A380 and SIN-HKG-SFO becomes 77W again.



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39477 posts, RR: 75
Reply 61, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14008 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.

I had fun hanging out at the last meet there with HoonsAir a few years ago.
I really miss the early Airliners.net meets inside the TWA terminal back in 2000 and 2001.
Wow that sounds so dated now. Impossible for non-ticket holders to be inside the airport and of course TWA is no longer with us.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 54):
Will be a A332. So only 2 engines.

Darn.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineIrishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13803 times:

What about these airlines and destinations? Some are new (and may have been rumored) and some used to have service-

SU to SVO
VN to SGN
JQ to SYD or BNE
CZ to CAN
AB to TXL or DUS
Any airline to GRU
EY to AUH
and as mentioned above AI to BOM or DEL


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 63, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13797 times:

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 62):
AB to TXL or DUS

Isnt Air Berlin returning to the summer?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinechiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13818 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
SJC really isn't an alternative to SFO for most of the Bay Area because it's really at the extreme south end of the Bay Area and it doesn't have an awful lot of service. Back in the 1990's when AA had a hub there, it made more sense in the middle of a silicon boom, but it's very far from SF, far from a good portion of Silicon Valley (the break-even point is rougly at Stanford), and far from the East Bay.

What are you talking about?

Majority of hi-tech company are much closer to SJC than SFO. Apple, Cisco, Google, FB... etc are all closer to SJC.

I would glad to pay slightly more to fly out of SJC instead of SFO. SJC is too small to handle international traffic. But it does not mean customers are happy to go up north to catch flight out of SFO.


User currently offlinechiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13809 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 60):
It is just a seasonal change. The SIN-HKG-SFO A380s are coming from SIN-FRA-JFK, which gets the 77W Dec 28 until Mar 23.
After Mar 23 the aircrafts are swapped again so SIN-JFK goes back to A380 and SIN-HKG-SFO becomes 77W again.

I really would hope SQ makes this permanent change.

I flew on SQ1 on 12th and will return on SQ2 on 23rd. The J is pretty much full.

I miss the first A380 flight on 12/22. SQ is sending the A380 on friday. For that just one day before the 28th official launch.


User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13323 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 63):
Isnt Air Berlin returning to the summer?

Nope  
http://www.airberlingroup.com/en/pre...2013-inspired-by-efficiency-drive-

Quote:
The United States are a strategic growth market for airberlin. This will continue to be the case in the future. By restructuring its network in North America, airberlin has set the course for further growth in this market from summer 2013 onwards. The new non-stop service between Berlin and the American Airlines hub of Chicago from March 2013 underpins the strategy of the second largest German airline as regards developing the existing synergies from that association.

Against this background, airberlin will also be increasing its non-stop services to New York JFK, Los Angeles and Miami from May 2013 onwards, while at the same time cancelling its seasonal non-stop flights from Düsseldorf to Las Vegas, San Francisco and Vancouver.



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13235 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 40):
A friend of mine lives near the 92/280 interchange in San Mateo. He used to fly out of SJC, over SFO, for business trips to places like NRT and BOS because he felt it was so much more convenient to get in and out of than SFO. San Mateo is much closer to SFO than SJC, yet here's an example of someone who preferred SJC.

I also live in San Mateo and have not once in my life taking a flight from SJC. Granted I only take about 3 international trips a years and maybe some hops down to so-cal I have never once been delayed. Maybe i'm lucky. Its just funny to hear all the talk about fog and not once in my 27 years of existence been affected by it. Just sayin

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.

That would be awesome. Can I join? Lol. Also Elephant bar is a good view point too

Quoting B747forever (Reply 63):
Isnt Air Berlin returning to the summer?

Nope. Glad I got to try it while I was hear. Loads sucked so i'm not surprised


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 68, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13194 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 67):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
We will need to do an SFO Airport Meetup. The favored place is El Torito, which is a Mexican place with a view on the 28's.

That would be awesome. Can I join? Lol. Also Elephant bar is a good view point too

I'm flying to San Jose tomorrow afternoon for the holidays and will have some free time for a few days before the girlfriend arrives on Saturday (not sure she'd like to sit there and watch airplanes all day with other A.net geeks). I'd love to join in.

Might you be doing your meet-up this week? Where is the Elephant Bar? Is that out in that waterfront area in Burlingame near the 28s? (been so long since I lived in that area, I forget the name of that road).


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 69, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13189 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 67):
That would be awesome. Can I join? Lol. Also Elephant bar is a good view point too

Yes, but the drinks are expensive and the food is "meh."


User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 70, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13180 times:

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 62):
SU to SVO
VN to SGN
JQ to SYD or BNE
CZ to CAN
AB to TXL or DUS
Any airline to GRU
EY to AUH
and as mentioned above AI to BOM or DEL

VN: No, not unless they stop enroute. The flights to long and a very low yield route
JQ: QF just dropped SFO last year, why would they launch this with JQ
CZ: They are busy flying empty A380's to LAX. No need to start SFO. UA has route authority on SFO-CAN
AB: Stated below, just been dropped
EY: Been talked about, but honestly haven't heard anything new.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 63):
Isnt Air Berlin returning to the summer?

No, they will not be returning next summer



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13176 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 68):
Where is the Elephant Bar?

Right next to El Torrito  
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 68):
I forget the name of that road)

Bayshore Highway even though its a continuation of Airport Blvd

Found this when I went to dinner with some friends at a local Japanese restaurant this past Saturday



User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 72, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13155 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 66):
Nope http://www.airberlingroup.com/en/pre...rive-

What a pity!

Well at least they will be seen at LAX.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineturk0167 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13120 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
It's only problem is fog.

Not to worry. I'm sure the California senators will soon be introducing new fog control legislation.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 74, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13113 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 68):

Might you be doing your meet-up this week?

This week is a bad week. Christmas, then New Year's. Better to wait until after the holidays.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 75, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13093 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 74):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 68):

Might you be doing your meet-up this week?

This week is a bad week. Christmas, then New Year's. Better to wait until after the holidays.

Yeah, but I won't be in town then.   I'm in the Bay Area from 12/19-12/31. Then back to the lovely Pacific Northwest.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 76, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13085 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 75):

Yeah, but I won't be in town then.

Well, poo!

Anyway, both El Torito and Elephant Bar are south/east of SFO on the shore of the bay. They are both at the eastern end of the 28's. Especially fun when takeoffs are off the 19's. Your smartphone should be able to tell you. Elephant Bar is sort of California Fusion-esque cuisine. They're a national (international?) chain, so you can check out their website. I've never been a huge fan of their food, and they are a bit pricey. El Torito is Mexican food with good (not amazing) margaritas and good (not amazing) Mexican food, but prices are reasonable. The other favorite local spotting spot is BayShore Park, which is just before the Hyatt (I think it's the Hyatt).

Also, Benihana has a restaurant some ways down the road. When you walk in, if you go to the sushi bar side (to the left when you walk in the door) that dining room has a beautiful view right down the 28's.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13009 times:

Judging by their expansion rate, TK seems the most likely...however not every "announced destination has become a reality.

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12988 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 67):
Nope. Glad I got to try it while I was hear. Loads sucked so i'm not surprised

AB averaged a 80-85% LF for the summer season so that really was not the issue. They are in an identity crisis. Am I scheduled or charter and am I focusing on leisure or business paxs. They are not doing well financially and just sold their frequent flier program. In the end, they are doing what QF did at SFO. Focus on their OW hubs and partners. They are closing LAS and YVR also.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12952 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 78):
AB averaged a 80-85% LF for the summer season so that really was not the issue. They are in an identity crisis. Am I scheduled or charter and am I focusing on leisure or business paxs.

That describes the situation well, in addition to the whole alliance problem.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 80, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12933 times:

If we do something that is not this calendar year, I will attend it.

NS


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 81, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12927 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 80):
If we do something that is not this calendar year, I will attend it.

NS

Send me a note please if you do. I'll be traveling back to SJC every month or two for family reasons in the upcoming months. I'd love to join you guys if I'm down there. Thanks.


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12954 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
*TK has SFO as part of a large wishlist.

Citing LaxIntl from the Turkish Aviation forum:
IST-LAX: 77% LF, 45% O&D vs 53% transfer, top 5 destinations IKA, BEY, TLV, BOM, AMM
As loads seem to be good SFO makes perfectly sense to me as capacity will be added to the entire west-coast.


User currently offlinechiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12882 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 67):
I also live in San Mateo and have not once in my life taking a flight from SJC. Granted I only take about 3 international trips a years and maybe some hops down to so-cal I have never once been delayed. Maybe i'm lucky. Its just funny to hear all the talk about fog and not once in my 27 years of existence been affected by it. Just sayin

I fly international once a month (made UA GS every year for last 5 years- usually able to renew status about 7 months into the year).

Fog is a problem for me. I have been delayed by Fog about three times this year. Usually on the inbound flights from Asia that arrives early in the morning. To me its pain in the rear.

In addition, because of all UA international arrival in the morning, often it would take close to an hour to get out of baggage claim. Even traveling in J, I have never made out of SFO in less than 30 minutes after getting off the plane. Those three times i was delayed, i was not able to get out of airport until close to 11am, three hours after getting to SFO air space.

I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient. I fly into Japan, China, Hong Kong, and Singapore a lot. Narita, PVG, HKG, and Changi all do a better job in getting me out of custom. Last week I was able to get out of HKG airport into my limo 12 minutes after landing.


User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 84, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12859 times:

Quoting chiawei (Reply 83):
I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient. I fly into Japan, China, Hong Kong, and Singapore a lot. Narita, PVG, HKG, and Changi all do a better job in getting me out of custom. Last week I was able to get out of HKG airport into my limo 12 minutes after landing.

Your comparing Apples to Oranges. HKG is a primary Int'l airport, not exactly a lot of domestic service. The comparing USA airports vs. Asia gets old. You seem very bitter about SFO, but the fact is if your a UA GS, then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination. SFO is what it is.

The fog is a problem, however until the new GPS procedures go into effect it will continue to be so.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 85, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12861 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 84):
The fog is a problem, however until the new GPS procedures go into effect it will continue to be so.

Is AS the only airline that does RNP procedures into SFO? Doesn't WN do them too?

Quoting as739x (Reply 84):
then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination.

That's not a bad choice. Deal with fog delays and long waits, or fly a NH 787 into the very convenient SJC. That's not a bad deal at all. Hopefully a lot of people will feel the same way and the SJC-NRT flight will prosper. How about a KL AMS-SJC flight while we are at it.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12834 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 85):
That's not a bad choice. Deal with fog delays and long waits, or fly a NH 787 into the very convenient SJC. That's not a bad deal at all. Hopefully a lot of people will feel the same way and the SJC-NRT flight will prosper. How about a KL AMS-SJC flight while we are at it.

As is obvious, SJC biggest problem in the gorilla up the road called SFO. SJC courted BA,VS and EI but nothing ever developed. Will the 787 change this? maybe. SJC is a niche' airport. The big European carriers are not going to fly into SJC and drain their yields/LF out of SFO.

The only Asian carriers I could possibly see is either CI or BR. I would say CI more as BR will shortly be in *A and will have UA as a partner.

Quoting chiawei (Reply 83):
I hate SFO. Way too crowded and in-efficient.

This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.



John@SFO
User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12796 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 86):
This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.

Funny too is SFO must not see a problem with fog. Taking on what 4 new carriers next year plus an added UA flight?

On a side note is XL Airways coming back next year or was that a one time thing?


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12752 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 87):
On a side note is XL Airways coming back next year or was that a one time thing?

I would expect XL to come back next summer. So, for S13, there will be 4 daily flights to Paris on certain days of the week.



John@SFO
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 89, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

Also I will only attend an outing I can access from BART and where nobody is offended I am carrying a flask.

NS


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12714 times:

Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?


John@SFO
User currently offlineadipasqu From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12719 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 90):
Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?

If I had to guess, I'd say FCO, DME/SVO, DUB, DEL, and BKK might be on that list?

Just a guess, though...



707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 92, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12693 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 89):

Also I will only attend an outing I can access from BART and where nobody is offended I am carrying a flask.

I'll only be offended if you don't share the contents of said flask.


User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12694 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 90):
Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 92):
I'll only be offended if you don't share the contents of said flask.

It should be noted then that whenever this meet takes place it involves a bar or one in near proximity


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12682 times:

When the new ATC Tower opens, are they planning on tearing down the old Tower? Wishful thinking but it would be nice if they opened an outdoor or even covered observation deck. Kind of like NRT.


John@SFO
User currently offlinechiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12682 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 84):
Your comparing Apples to Oranges. HKG is a primary Int'l airport, not exactly a lot of domestic service. The comparing USA airports vs. Asia gets old. You seem very bitter about SFO, but the fact is if your a UA GS, then live with it or use NH's new SJC service via NRT to your destination. SFO is what it is.

I don't think i am. The SFO international terminal is indep. of domestic operation. So i don't understand the bag issues. UA has shanghai, PEK, HKG, NRT flights coming early morning. I believe those are the only 4 flights that arrives that early. I can somewhat understand number of flights.

HKG on the other hand has a lot more flights coming at morning rush hour. I believe majority of NA flights arrives between 6-9am. But I was still able to come out within 12 min.

I have no choice to live with SFO. But does not mean i like it at all. When ANA starts to NRT from SJC. I will take that flight over UA out of SFO.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 86):
This is not a new thought. But, SFO is poised to have its best passenger year ever with passenger counts surpassing 41 million. If SFO had SJC passenger counts, there would be barely a delay.

I don't know about that. I am still always amazed how UA is not able to handle 4 wide body flight in timely manner. When i come in from Asia. Often it will be packed with UA 838, 858, 888, and 862. Being SFO is UA hub and these flights has been operating for a long time, you would think UA will have enough ground crew to handle bags.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 96, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 93):
Quoting legacyins (Reply 90):
Can anyone supply data to the top 3-5 International destinations not served from SFO?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 92):
I'll only be offended if you don't share the contents of said flask.

It should be noted then that whenever this meet takes place it involves a bar or one in near proximity

Yeah, and your point is?   I like that plan. Liquid refreshments are always in order when engaging in our other favorite hobbies - namely watching airplanes. hope you guys plan it when I'm in town, so I can join in. Otherwise, SEA isn't a bad place to watch plane either - especially if you happen to like somber looking Eskimos.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 97, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12630 times:

Look, I can show up anywhere on the Western seaboard as long as UA flies there and there is a bar.

Just not until the New Year. Cause I'm going to COS tomorrow. During a snowstorm.

Ahh, home.

NS


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 98, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12663 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 86):
SJC courted BA,VS and EI but nothing ever developed.

SJC also courted NW to put an A330 on SJC-NRT to replace the dearly departed AA 777. Like I said, NH is an excellent carrier from my particular experience with them. I'm really glad they decided to start SJC and I wish them luck, and really expect they'll make it prosper.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12653 times:

Quoting chiawei (Reply 95):
I don't know about that. I am still always amazed how UA is not able to handle 4 wide body flight in timely manner. When i come in from Asia. Often it will be packed with UA 838, 858, 888, and 862. Being SFO is UA hub and these flights has been operating for a long time, you would think UA will have enough ground crew to handle bags.

Well, this is an airline issue you are describing, not an airport issue. There are 4 high capacity baggage carousels in the G- International arrivals. If the ground crews for United are not getting the luggage up in a timely manner, you should ask UA.

I also fly across the Pacific often out of SFO and UA is not my first choice even as *G.



John@SFO
User currently offlinechiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12642 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 99):
Well, this is an airline issue you are describing, not an airport issue. There are 4 high capacity baggage carousels in the G- International arrivals. If the ground crews for United are not getting the luggage up in a timely manner, you should ask UA.

I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed. I was there earlier in the summer when the custom systems crashed and it took them 1 hour to get backup system (ancient pentium laptop) to start clearing custom. Each passenger took about 5 to 10 min to clear. So SFO does have rooms for improvement.

UA- I am already given up on UA in terms of service. But UA is my company preferred carrier, so at times I am forced to take UA. But I have been clever in getting around the system by stopping at places like Seoul and SIN so I can fly SQ.


User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 101, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12599 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 85):
Is AS the only airline that does RNP procedures into SFO? Doesn't WN do them too?

Quoting as739x (Reply 84):

Actually back when AS did the RNP program it never got launched. Even though it was approved, NorCal needed an additional controller and they wouldn't do it. They later approved the controller and all aircraft that are able/approved can do the RNAV approaches as far as I know.

Quoting mikeology (Reply 87):
Funny too is SFO must not see a problem with fog. Taking on what 4 new carriers next year plus an added UA flight?

Int'l carrier don't fall into the delay program. They could care less. As long as they plan for holding fuel and have planned alternates they will be fine.

United new service is the same. TPE/CDG will just have local holds. The new FLL service arrived in the evening which is not as delayed prone as am 8a-1130a.

Quoting chiawei (Reply 95):
I don't think i am. The SFO international terminal is indep. of domestic operation. So i don't understand the bag issues. UA has shanghai, PEK, HKG, NRT flights coming early morning. I believe those are the only 4 flights that arrives that early. I can somewhat understand number of flights.

Sorry I am not following all your arguements. If its the baggage time or ATC delays?? If it's the baggage issue I can give you many reason, none that I can discuss on a public forum in my current position. But again you comparing Asian city's vs. US city's, that all i will get into there.

Quoting chiawei (Reply 100):
I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed

This is my personal opinion, but you do come off Anti-SFO here. Iv'e recently flown Int'l into LAX/IAD and IAH during arrival banks and SFO moved faster then all of these.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 102, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12624 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 94):
When the new ATC Tower opens, are they planning on tearing down the old Tower? Wishful thinking but it would be nice if they opened an outdoor or even covered observation deck. Kind of like NRT.

All coming down. Both ATC and Shadow Tower as well as the 6 level bulding below. All non-FAA offices have already been reloacted from the building, with the exception of the company offices contructing the new tower.

T-2 will look much different in a few years.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12619 times:

Quoting chiawei (Reply 100):
I think its mixture of both. Customs at SFO also quiet long- I think they are really short staffed. I was there earlier in the summer when the custom systems crashed and it took them 1 hour to get backup system (ancient pentium laptop) to start clearing custom. Each passenger took about 5 to 10 min to clear. So SFO does have rooms for improvement.

I have a little experience here. Yes, if the systems go down, it is all stop. It needs to go up the chain of command to go to the various backup procedures. Not sure if you remember, about two summers ago, same thing happened at LAX. Thousands of passengers in the arrivals hall, passengers held on arriving aircraft. Total disaster.

Staffing is always an issue, no matter where you are. They use ratios in determining Officers to passengers. It use to be 45 to 1. Still in the end, there is always one passenger out there that might be of a concern. Better to play it safe and have a little inconvenience than not to have the Golden Gate Bridge in the morning, if you know what I mean.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 12455 times:

Has TK announced an official start date to SFO yet?

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12382 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 104):
Has TK announced an official start date to SFO yet?

Not yet. It my understanding that they notified the financial/regulatory(?) bodies in Turkey of their proposed list of destinations they would like to serve. Nothing firm and still a ways off yet.



John@SFO
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12302 times:

Quoting chiawei (Reply 100):
UA- I am already given up on UA in terms of service.

sCO is sending a large number of new hire FAs to SFO. Perhaps that will make a difference.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12285 times:

Are SFO flight crews only pmUA? A month ago I flew a pmCO route, PHX-EWR, on a 320 in Tulip livery with a pmUA crew which was surprising.

User currently onlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5993 posts, RR: 24
Reply 108, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12270 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 107):
Are SFO flight crews only pmUA?

sUA Pilot and FA's
sCO FA's only



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12260 times:

Interesting.

Also, there's a separate thread on UA making EWR-SFO 14x daily. I need to fly that route 5 times or so next year so I selfishly hope this leads to trash fares in the short term!


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 110, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12264 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 109):
Also, there's a separate thread on UA making EWR-SFO 14x daily. I need to fly that route 5 times or so next year so I selfishly hope this leads to trash fares in the short term!



I am sure that UA's fare will come down. So far they have only started phase one of the war, wait for phase two to begin soon, the pricing war  



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 111, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12241 times:

I am sitting in the GB next to 74 if anyone is nearby and wants to amuse me.

NS


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12187 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 110):
I am sure that UA's fare will come down. So far they have only started phase one of the war, wait for phase two to begin soon, the pricing war

My fellow 747, I will be watching this with great pleasure.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 113, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12190 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 112):

My fellow 747, I will be watching this with great pleasure.

If you have a choice between flying UA and VX, go with VX. Trust me.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 12187 times:

My guess is that UA will be using more of the G- International Terminal to handle the increase of domestic flights.


John@SFO
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 114):
My guess is that UA will be using more of the G- International Terminal to handle the increase of domestic flights.

That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, unfortunately. I understand the necessity of it, but it annoys me to no end! Same with UA using Terminal 1 for some flights. There's no consistency on where the passengers are going to come out from those flights, and it makes meeting people very difficult...you never know whether they're going to come out of the Terminal 3-F security exit, or if they don't have checked luggage and will come out either the Terminal 1-B exit or the Domestic Arrivals exit out of the International Terminal. Of course, the passenger then gets annoyed and calls my company's office screaming about how his driver didn't meet him where he was supposed to...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12100 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 113):
If you have a choice between flying UA and VX, go with VX. Trust me.

I would if VX were in an alliance. Domestic service on American carriers is so bad anyways, so I really care about being able to gain/redeem miles on NH, SQ, NZ, TK, and (unfortunately) LH.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

To keep this thread going....

SFO is constrained by space. They are surrounded by either a Bay or development. If they were to expand Terminal space, would it be possible to tear down the Super Bay and build a Terminal with underground train access?

Any other thoughts?



John@SFO
User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11998 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 117):

I guess that's always possible. Getting United to give up the space is another matter.

Let's assume that some time in the not so distant future, a new runway is actually built parallel to the 10/28's. With that done, how about ripping up the 1/19's and building a satellite terminal in their place, connected to the new Terminal 1 development through an underground walkway. With a single linear terminal you could add around 30-40 Cat IV gates.

Put AA and VX into the new terminal and give T2 to UA, AC, and US. This would definitely give United the extra gates they most desperately need.

Of course one can dream....



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 119, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11980 times:
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Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
Has LA announced f they will send the 788 to SFO?

Nope. LAN Perú will continue to utilize the B-767-316ER on the GRU-LIM-SFO route.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11964 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 119):

Speaking of LAN. They have been flying into SFO for about two years now and have not expanded from their 4-5 weekly flights. Any possibility of going daily in the future?



John@SFO
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 121, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11957 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting legacyins (Reply 120):
Speaking of LAN. They have been flying into SFO for about two years now and have not expanded from their 4-5 weekly flights. Any possibility of going daily in the future?

LAN is in the process of reorganizing the schedule at the LIM hub. You will notice that LAN will change its schedule into SFO in the coming months; as well as the flight numbers, (LA2010/LA2011).


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11864 times:

Does LA market their flight as the only "direct" link between SFO and Brazil?

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 123, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11866 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 122):
Does LA market their flight as the only "direct" link between SFO and Brazil?

LAN markets the service as, "The only Non-Stop from San Francisco to South America":
http://www.lan.com/files/asociados/informacion/from_sfo_to_saa.pdf


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11739 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 123):
LAN markets the service as, "The only Non-Stop from San Francisco to South America":

Which is a true statement. They are the only carrier to offer non-stop service from SFO to South America.

I have heard some grubblings with LANs proposed schedule change into SFO. I guess the flight departs/arrives into GRU very early in the morning. I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?

When the LIM hub is developed, can there be more connections from S. America that are timed to connect to the SFO flight?



John@SFO
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6940 posts, RR: 18
Reply 125, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11727 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 124):
Which is a true statement. They are the only carrier to offer non-stop service from SFO to South America.

I'm surprised UA doesn't offer more service to S. America from SFO. But then again, IAH .....



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 126, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11720 times:
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Quoting legacyins (Reply 124):
I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?

The service operates as a direct service between GRU and SFO. Also, the service is geared towards connections to HKG via SFO. Perhaps LAN wants to offer connections to HND on JAL via SFO...

Quoting legacyins (Reply 124):
When the LIM hub is developed, can there be more connections from S. America that are timed to connect to the SFO flight?

Yes, TAM plans to launch GIG-LIM and LAN plans to add new routes and more flights to destinations in the Southern Cone from the LIM hub.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126):
Yes, TAM plans to launch GIG-LIM and LAN plans to add new routes and more flights to destinations in the Southern Cone from the LIM hub.

maybe at that time, they might increase to a daily flight.

I saw their 767, with winglets, today at SFO. I always liked their sharp livery.



John@SFO
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 128, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11724 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting legacyins (Reply 127):
maybe at that time, they might increase to a daily flight.

Next year, LIM-LAX will increase from 13x weekly to 2x daily and LIM-SFO should get an additional frequency.


User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11694 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 126):
The service operates as a direct service between GRU and SFO. Also, the service is geared towards connections to HKG via SFO. Perhaps LAN wants to offer connections to HND on JAL via SFO...

Correct. I believe the flight arrives at 7am. Plenty of time for the many noon time flights leaving for Asia

Quoting legacyins (Reply 127):
I saw their 767, with winglets, today at SFO. I always liked their sharp livery.

My favorite livery for a 767. Great looking plane. Wish it were at SFO everyday

Anybody know what the loads are like on the SFO-LIM route?


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11571 times:

Does anyone know why 19L/R was being used today for arrivals? It was a pretty nice day but who knows how strong the winds were above.


John@SFO
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 130):
Does anyone know why 19L/R was being used today for arrivals? It was a pretty nice day but who knows how strong the winds were above.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the storm that's on its way in...supposed to hit tonight and into tomorrow morning. There were a number of flight delays also, although I don't know how much of that had to do with SFO and how much of it had to do with the weather elsewhere...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

I'm flying out of SFO this morning down South and pretty fierce weather out there. Delays about an hour and alternate runway use.


John@SFO
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 133, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11289 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 132):
I'm flying out of SFO this morning down South and pretty fierce weather out there. Delays about an hour and alternate runway use.

They are taking off on the 12s at SJC now, later morning 12/21. What runways are they using at SFO today, the 10s?


User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11250 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 133):

Departures on the 10's, arrivals on the 19's.



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlinePSA727LAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11271 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 23):
Very much the opposite. The 747 will be the dominate bird T-PAC

Last time i looked SFO has huge #'s of T7's and yes still a large # of 47's too. I would love nothin more than for the Queen of the sky's (747) to keep on ruling the air but also know that a lot of the TPAC routes are or have gone to the T7's


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11196 times:

On another note, if the A380 is too much plane for FRA-SFO, will LH consider sending the 747-8i to SFO?

I'm also surprised that SFO-FRA is larger than LAX-FRA.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11204 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 136):

On another note, if the A380 is too much plane for FRA-SFO, will LH consider sending the 747-8i to SFO?

I'm also surprised that SFO-FRA is larger than LAX-FRA.


LH has no problem filling their A380 into SFO. They even extended the usage through the Holiday season.

As for all the FRA flights. You have two very strong *A airports at either end.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11153 times:

Doesn't LAX have lots of *A feed too? Or is it split with AA also being hubbed there?

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 139, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11155 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 138):
Doesn't LAX have lots of *A feed too? Or is it split with AA also being hubbed there?

Maybe UA/LH prefer to transfer their PAX through SFO, which is a bigger hub for UA compared to LAX.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

I still think the flights must have mostly O&D California side. Routings like FCO-FRA-LAX-DEN involve backtracking, and last I checked DEL-HNL isn't a huge market.

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 140):

A lot of Germans and Europeans in general head for Hawaii and connect through SFO. This is of course after they tried the Canary Islands, Azores and Majorca. Also, visitors may start their journey in SFO and depart from LAX and vise versa.



John@SFO
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11017 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 141):
Also, visitors may start their journey in SFO and depart from LAX and vise versa.

I've seen that quite a bit...also, I wonder if people on the Pacific Northwest (PDX, SEA, etc) would go through SFO if they're loyal to Star? Granted I don't know what sorts of offerings PDX and SEA have, but there are quite a few UA Express flights from small cities west of the Rockies to SFO that probably help to feed.

I see a large number of corporate clients coming home to SFO who flew here from FRA, but connected at FRA from all over Europe as well, not to mention India...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 142):
I've seen that quite a bit...also, I wonder if people on the Pacific Northwest (PDX, SEA, etc) would go through SFO if they're loyal to Star?

What will be interesting to see is when SK starts service into SFO. When they flew into SEA, they had connecting traffic on AS from the bay Area. I am sure they will have some connecting traffic from the Pacific Northwest to SFO even though they have the option of flying BA/LH.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10909 times:

Speaking of India, did EY serve SFO in the past?

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10852 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 144):

Speaking of India, did EY serve SFO in the past?


No, not EY. The only Indian Carrier to serve SFO in the past was 9W. They had high ambitions but it never worked out.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10829 times:

Is QR a strong possibility?

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 147, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10618 times:

I've been hearing tell for 2 years that India and Tel Aviv are on the radar from UA... I'd think with 50 787s on the way, they can indeed make both work.

I don't recall what the delivery schedule for the 25 sUA ones are... I am hoping they get cracking on those, and that the 789 isn't going to be late for its 2014 deliveries.

NS


User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 148, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10611 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 147):
I've been hearing tell for 2 years that India and Tel Aviv are on the radar from UA... I'd think with 50 787s on the way, they can indeed make both work.

I have heard the same thing. Particularly exciting is the fact that SFO-DEL or -BOM service would allow pax to fly UA RTW, say:

SFO-DEL-EWR-SFO

Which would take you over the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, China and Central Asia -- sweet!!



Unless, of course, the new Indian destination is one not currently served from Newark, such as Bangalore.

Cheers,
Scottie

p.s. -- If I'd been near the GB the other day when you were there, I'd certainly have popped in. I love day trips to SFO, A.M. arrival, redeye home.

edited to add image

[Edited 2012-12-22 22:15:38]

User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10433 times:

I doubt the yields to India would be good enough...

User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10384 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 117):
SFO is constrained by space. They are surrounded by either a Bay or development. If they were to expand Terminal space, would it be possible to tear down the Super Bay and build a Terminal with underground train access?

I think a better place would be the DHL and Asiana Cargo Ramp areas and the parking structure in between. Tear that down, extend Terminal F (that now ends at gate 90) all the way to Taxiway Y and use Y as the access loop to get to the back side.


User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10394 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 149):
I doubt the yields to India would be good enough...

I don't... It is my understanding that a large number of passengers that fly out of SFO on both Emirates and Lufthansa are connecting through to India. Likely enough to fill 1 daily 787.


User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10459 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 124):

I have heard some grubblings with LANs proposed schedule change into SFO. I guess the flight departs/arrives into GRU very early in the morning. I understand they are developing their LIM hub but I tend to believe most of their paxs are from LIM and there is not a lot of paxs connecting from GRU?

Actually the times at GRU are pretty good, LIM is in the middle of the night, but from my experience on the flight, I would say well over half of the people were flying GRU-SFO or vice versa. LIM-SFO (&SFO-LIM) traffic accounted for about 30% of the passengers on the flights I was on.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10442 times:

Quoting rickabone (Reply 150):
I think a better place would be the DHL and Asiana Cargo Ramp areas and the parking structure in between. Tear that down, extend Terminal F (that now ends at gate 90) all the way to Taxiway Y and use Y as the access loop to get to the back side.

This would be an interesting proposal. Unfortunately, the Asiana Building is relatively new, within the last five years, and I believe there a few long term leases that would need to be renegotiated..

On a side note, the proposed Termnal 1 rebuild looks promising. I like the Idea of the swing gates at the end that can be used for International flights. I believe there would be 2-3 Gates.

I was reading the Airport minutes, yes quite exciting, and came across a bid to reconfigure a gate or two for A380 use. Right now there is only one Gate capable of handling the A380 at the G Terminal.



John@SFO
User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10466 times:

As far as fog & low ceiling related delays at SFO, they should be reduced significantly by the end of this year as a system called CASPRS is instituted. The current arrival rate to the 28's in good weather is 60 aircraft per hour. SOIA (Simultaneous Offset Instrument Approaches) allows for 45 aircraft per hour, while ILS to 28R (or 28L if the right is closed) results in an arrival rate of only 30 aircraft per hour. To run visuals we usually need a 4000' ceiling, SOIA requires a 2100' ceiling, so it is only useful when the ceiling is less than 4000' but greater than 2100' and it requires significant set up time for both NCT and the pilots. CASPRS would have a similar arrival rate to SOIA, but a much lower ceiling requirement than SOIA. I don't remember exactly what CASPRS stands for, but in essence it reduces the spacing required between two aircraft landing on the parallel runways by increasing the glide slope of one of the ILS's and offsetting the touchdown zone (28R I think). This will allow aircraft to be 1.5 miles apart for the parallels instead of the standard IFR separation of 3 miles. It is not quite as efficient as SOIA since you can run SOIA with near side-by separation, and for both SOIA and CASPRS, you will still need a 4 mile hole between pairs to launch departures off the 1's in the most common configuration at SFO (landing on runways 28 and departing on runways 01).

The system won't get rid of weather related delays completely, but my guess is that on a day where you would normally encounter 2 hour delays into SFO due to fog or low ceilings, you will see those delays cut down to less than 1 hour.


User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10438 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 153):

This would be an interesting proposal. Unfortunately, the Asiana Building is relatively new, within the last five years, and I believe there a few long term leases that would need to be renegotiated..

On a side note, the proposed Termnal 1 rebuild looks promising. I like the Idea of the swing gates at the end that can be used for International flights. I believe there would be 2-3 Gates.

I was reading the Airport minutes, yes quite exciting, and came across a bid to reconfigure a gate or two for A380 use. Right now there is only one Gate capable of handling the A380 at the G Terminal.

Yeah, I know it would be a difficult proposal with the cargo ramp leases and the money they make off of the parking structure, but given the Terminal 1 redesign, I don't think you could even think of starting this until well into the 2020's, so it would be a very long term proposal (with construction beginning only after the 3 or more phases of the terminal 1 redesign are complete)

I also agree that the Terminal 1 redesign looks pretty cool. Though it won't add too many gates (I think 3-4 by my last count) it will smooth things out as far as taxiing and pushing go since most aircraft will be able to push out of their gates without blocking taxiway A or without blocking an alley.

It has been interesting to see how many fewer United/Skywest aircraft have to wait without gates now that they are parking CRJ2's and E120's at Terminal 1 and using the 76 & 77 gates for United Mainline along with CRJ7's. Even during the peak traffic periods this summer when they just started doing it, it was working out much better than before.


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Quoting rickabone (Reply 151):
I don't... It is my understanding that a large number of passengers that fly out of SFO on both Emirates and Lufthansa are connecting through to India. Likely enough to fill 1 daily 787.

At what cost? Load factors do not equal profitability if one fills the plane with cheap fares.

Also remember that passengers are flying from SFO to many different Indian cities, as well as IKA which is a large market to California, so a flight just to DEL would not help those passengers.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 157, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10032 times:

With the development of the 787, city pairs have opened up that may not have been viable using a larger aircraft. ANA will soon start SJC and JL has opened up SAN and BOS.

SFO has always had larger aircraft as the 777, 747 and to some extent the A380. Are there any routes out there that could come online using the 787? I was thinking possibly India, S. America and possibly S. Europe.



John@SFO
User currently offlinerickabone From United States of America, joined May 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 158, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9887 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 157):
SFO has always had larger aircraft as the 777, 747 and to some extent the A380. Are there any routes out there that could come online using the 787? I was thinking possibly India, S. America and possibly S. Europe.

I would think India would be one of the first choices. Sao Paulo would be a good second choice to compete with LAN, Madrid in Southern Europe might work, maybe Moscow?


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 159, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9860 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 149):
I doubt the yields to India would be good enough...

I am uncertain.

Well, I am thinking certainly this:

A 777 from the Bay Area to really any Indian destination would be low in yield.

A 787-8 from the Bay Area to a number of locations in India might do quite well.

A number of global Bay Area cities, including behemoths like Cisco and Dell, have opened major owned-and-operated centers in Bangalore and surrounds, and some other places I'm less familiar with. Whilst I was there, Cisco would contribute easily 100+ pax to an LH flight during the week getting to India, and I'm sure that they now put a large number on United via Newark (United is a "preferred vendor", Continental was not, on a lot of routes).

Wealthier Indian families in the Bay Area also do tend to travel home for a couple weeks a year... so I think, again, a 787 might do nicely.

NS


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 160, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

With UA having 50 787 on order, they would be a natural choice to offer service from their hub at SFO. As I do not care for one carrier to have such a large share of flights from a particular airport, I would prefer a foreign carrier, who flies the 787, to offer the service.

I would say AI would be the strongest candidate to offer service from India to SFO using their 787 aircraft. It would also nice to see CZ start service from CAN using their 787 aircraft. UA still has the route authority but market conditions for a 777 may not be there. I would like to see UA open up DUB, TLV and GRU using their 787s.



John@SFO
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 161, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

Singapore Airlines will be flying in their A380 into SFO tomorrow for a short three month period. They will be using gate 101 at the G-terminal but the arrival time will be less than desirable for photo ops.

Speculation is that they may extend the flight beyond the March 2013 services but they seem adamant that it will only be until March 24th. Presumably, it will return to the JFK run.

Here is hoping the flight is successful and