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AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare  
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11975 posts, RR: 62
Posted (2 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9871 times:

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3609

- DFW-BOG and MIA-CWB/POA starting "late 2013"
- Codeshare with TAM and LAN Colombia

I think all of these were fairly predictable. Guess this means TAM is now surely a lock for oneworld.

[Edited 2012-12-17 07:57:39]

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9750 times:

I wonder if MIA-COR will be next...AA needs more metal to fly these routes. AA is getting 3 additional gates in MIA soon.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9723 times:

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see if POA and CWB will be non-stop or tag-ons. Will they be non-stop 757s?

I also expected to see COR next. I'd like to see CUZ again, but understand that's not very likely.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9695 times:

Man, I feel vindicated.

I have said over and over that AA needed only LIM and BOG and the South American network from DFW would be complete. That was met with some pushback in the a.net community.

With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9659 times:

It's very probable that the service to Southern Brazil will be a triangular flight MIA-CWB-POA-MIA. CWB's runway is somewhat short.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.

The fact that DFW-GIG is running daily this winter is also a sign that it may see year-round increases in the near future.

[Edited 2012-12-17 08:39:37]

[Edited 2012-12-17 08:40:15]

User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
Man, I feel vindicated.

I have said over and over that AA needed only LIM and BOG and the South American network from DFW would be complete. That was met with some pushback in the a.net community.

With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.

         There's still a little room to Mexico and Central America from DFW, but I think S. America is done for a while. GIG would be the only additional point that makes sense, but I think that's a few years down the line (post-WC but pre-Olympics perhaps?).

LIM and BOG were both LONG overdue and I'm happy to see them both on the route map. I would not be surprised to see a 763 on DFWLIM when more shells come available.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9612 times:

Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9599 times:
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AA added a second flight to GUA on Saturdays from DFW. My guess is they are testing to see if it works so that maybe add that second frequency on other days of the week.


avi8
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Good to see AA having some cautious growth!

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9454 times:

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
I think all of these were fairly predictable. Guess this means TAM is now surely a lock for oneworld.

The WSJ reported last week that IAG (BA/IB) and LATAM were still negotiating the parts of their deal, but that the final agreement is more or less a forgone conclusion.

[Edited 2012-12-17 09:05:22]

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9398 times:

If LATAM had no intentions of staying in oneworld they would'nt be enhancing agreements w/AA!

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9347 times:

Quoting Tdan (Reply 5):
There's still a little room to Mexico and Central America from DFW, but I think S. America is done for a while. GIG would be the only additional point that makes sense, but I think that's a few years down the line (post-WC but pre-Olympics perhaps?).

LIM and BOG were both LONG overdue and I'm happy to see them both on the route map. I would not be surprised to see a 763 on DFWLIM when more shells come available.

Agreed wholely.

Im the biggest DFW fan on this forum, but Id like to think Im somewhat realistic on what could be done. I know that smaller destinations in South America arent really possible. Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.

Like I said earlier, outside of LIM and BOG, being able to add frequency to CCS and GIG would be the only addition things I would like to see.

In Central America and Mexico, there is definately room for more. Having a plane like the E190 would be great for expansion to cities like SAP, MGA, or TGU while allowing destinations like PTY to be daily.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlinejmw99ttu From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9332 times:

Will the BOG flight be operated on the new A319s? Many have speculated that this would be the right plane for the mission. I'm happy to see AA continue to expand from DFW, but I sure would have enjoyed seeing some LAN metal here.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33288 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

Service from Miami to Porto Alegre/Curtiba has been in the works for a while now. Last I heard it would be a triangular routing; CWB can't take a non-stop to MIA. It will be a 767-300ER.


a.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9239 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.

Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9238 times:

Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America. Therefore, BOG will be a stretch. There is not hardly any O&D traffic to support the route and most traffic out of Columbia heads towards the southeastern / eastern United States which AA handles via MIA.

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9211 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America.

What do you base that off of?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9115 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 16):
What do you base that off of?

Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.

Part of the problem is that AA's hub in MIA is much better suited to serve these routes. It has a much greater O&D and is geographically located in a much better position to handle most of the connecting traffic (southeastern and eastern U.S.). Yes, DFW helps for traffic destined to the western part of the U.S., but we know that the flight would mostly have to rely on connecting traffic (what little there is to the western part of the U.S.) since O&D traffic to DFW is very small.

[Edited 2012-12-17 10:06:53]

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33288 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9076 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.

DFWCCS and DFWSCL have ran continuously since launch in the 1990's.

DFWLIM ended once, and is soon re-starting.



a.
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9008 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11): Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.
Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?

Maybe UIO, I doubt GYE. CO dropped GYE after serving it for many, many years.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 days ago) and read 8959 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
DFWCCS and DFWSCL have ran continuously since launch in the 1990's.

Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 days ago) and read 8936 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):

Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?

Ecuador-US is an interesting market...very different from BOG or LIM. Firstly, the market is very concentrated to MIA and NYC, making any other nonstops tough since the local markets are so small. Additionally, GYE yields are trash to the US. If UA doesn't serve it out of IAH, you know there is an issue and no way DFW would work. UIO has potential once the new airport opens, but I'd expect JFKUIO before DFWUIO. The market size, particularly to the west just isn't there as opposed to BOG and LIM.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):

In Central America and Mexico, there is definately room for more. Having a plane like the E190 would be great for expansion to cities like SAP, MGA, or TGU while allowing destinations like PTY to be daily.

I think SAP or even RTB will be your next best adds from DFW to the region, but as you correctly illustrate, a 738 is a little big for these Central American markets. The incremental revenue and profitability might not exceed the cannibalization incurred on the MIA-SAP route, for example.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
Service from Miami to Porto Alegre/Curtiba has been in the works for a while now. Last I heard it would be a triangular routing; CWB can't take a non-stop to MIA. It will be a 767-300ER.

Doesn't POA still present operational issues due to the runway length? I know CWB definitely has to be a tag because of the altitude and runway length, but I'm curious to see if they can do it without weight restrictions. Very excited for the new service regardless!



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 days ago) and read 8895 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

No, thats indicative of how much capacity AA can support from DFW to CCS. Its not all one market.

LIM and BOG are going to be no problem. If nothing else, AA will have codeshares on both the LIM and BOG ends. The local markets will also grow.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8603 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
No, thats indicative of how much capacity AA can support from DFW to CCS. Its not all one market.

LIM and BOG are going to be no problem. If nothing else, AA will have codeshares on both the LIM and BOG ends. The local markets will also grow.


Why do you believe these factors will lead to the success of this route, when you tend to discount or completely dismiss these same factors (its not one market, local markets will grow, codeshares on both ends) when discussing the viability of routes from other hubs in the U.S.? I'm not clear if it something unique about DFW-LIM/BOG or just biased towards DFW.

[Edited 2012-12-17 11:43:58]

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8448 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
Why do you believe these factors will lead to the success of this route, when you tend to discount or completely dismiss these same factors (its not one market, local markets will grow, codeshares on both ends) when discussing the viability of routes from other hubs in the U.S.? I'm not clear if it something unique about DFW-LIM/BOG or just biased towards DFW.

Im pretty darn realistic about what can and cant be supported from DFW or anywhere else. Im not sure exactly what you are refering to, but I have said for years that the only two missing pieces of the DFW-South America puzzle were LIM and BOG. To be frank, that was no pie in the sky it was real. My point has been proven by the fact that AA is opening them.

Have I been critical of other hubs as well? Yes, but I have of DFW too and I use data to support my theories. Youre probably thinking of the PHX and IAH threads. As for those threads, there was a lot of pie in the sky theories about TG showing up at IAH or PHX having extensive service to Europe. I came down on those and produced facts to back them up. I did mention that I thought IAH could support another flight to Asia and give my thoughts on the situation. I also took a very good middle road on the CLT thread.

The better question is why you think all of Northern South America is the same? Service at CCS isnt indicative of every city in South America. Its like pointing at LAS and saying PHX can support the same thing. As for DFW-LIM, it was stopped during a time when AA and LAN didnt have the close ties. I suspect that at maturity both DFW-LIM and DFW-BOG will carry between 30-40 O&D. Right now, they are about half to 3/4 of that.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 Post contains images laca773 : Agreed! I think it would allow AA to also upgauge some of the smaller cities in Mexico that are flown on ERJs as well. The E90s allow for new routes
26 RodRB : TAP operates POA-LIS with the A330 and I think there is some kind of payload restrictions. AR used to fly some chartes from POA to MIA with the A340
27 HOONS90 : Simply excellent news for Southern Brazil! I knew this was coming eventually... I wonder if CM can start PTY-CWB as well. What about Belém?
28 DolphinAir747 : Why is LATAM's alliance choice still under discussion? I thought that 1W was confirmed... Wow, AA's MIA operation is just amazing, though it's not sur
29 LAXdude1023 : The 319 and larger, longer range ERJ's could do wonders for DFW-Central America/BOG/CCS. DFW-BOG/SAL/CCS would be great daily 319 markets (the Venezu
30 mah4546 : One weekly CCS flight is indicative of a Venezuelan government that refuses to allow AA to increase service to Caracas and add service to Valencia. A
31 SATexan : Mark, IIRC AA even asked for SJU-VLN once. Right?
32 mah4546 : Yes. After attemps at MIAVLN didn't work, AA asked for SJUVLN. I should make clear, though, AA eventually got permission for MIAVLN in 2011. The prob
33 Post contains images IrishAyes : Wowowowowwowowowowowow! As a Dallas native, I'm usually first to jump on these threads. I've been tethered to a deadline today so I'm late to the part
34 DolphinAir747 : MIA-POA-CWB would involve backtracking. Is CWB an airport like UIO that can only have longhaul flights land (as in IB's MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD and KL's simil
35 DolphinAir747 : What percentage of US-South America traffic will be flown on 1W (including JJ)?
36 mah4546 : Yes. CWB-MIA cannot be flown non-stop due to CWB's runway/altitude. Fortaleza, I bet. Also, there's Belem. While it's not the biggest market, it's ab
37 HOONS90 : Practically all major airports in Southern Brazil (south of GRU) have short runways, including CWB, FLN and POA. What makes CWB even less suitable fo
38 bogota : It would be interesting to ask UA why they have a double daily flight to BOG from IAH and only a daily from EWR, that is if the premise that most pax
39 Cubsrule : It's been a couple of years, but I used to watch US-SCL loads pretty closely, and I'd say that DFW-SCL had higher loads than MIA-SCL about 9-10 month
40 Super80DFW : I agree. This was also the case when I was nonreving into SCL. DFW-SCL was packed, and MIA-SCL was delightfully open.
41 RCS763AV : 738s are used most of the time. The A319 does seem like a good aircraft for the market, but the 738 could also be filled. There is a large amount of
42 jfk777 : When AA flies to all the cities TAP flies to in Brazil, that is when they have saturated the market by destination.
43 Bogota : Never had one of those on my flights, always 737. Booked on a 752 this weekend but have a reservation for April both ways on a 737.
44 Tdan : Large and growing local market with VERY high fares since UA is the only nonstop show in town. Colombia's oil and gas industry is also booming, so th
45 bogota : Exactly, so there is really no reason a BOG-DFW flight will not operate with the same success.
46 mah4546 : That's a very simply answer. It was applied for when route authorities to Colombia were rare and highly desired, so airlines had a very different met
47 EricR : Actually, AA did drop DFW-CCS. The route started back up on August 1, 2003 as a daily flight, but has since been reduced to its current 1 day per wee
48 LAXdude1023 : What specifically are you talking about? I'm pretty realistic and typically factor those things in. Go read the first IAH thread. Over and over I sai
49 IrishAyes : I will not deny that I'm not always 100% accurate in my posts, but allow me to repost some of the claims you made in your initial posts that prompted
50 SCL767 : During that period, LAN simply added more frequencies on the SCL-MIA route due to high demand. Similarly, next month LAN will add even more frequenci
51 mah4546 : LAN and AA have immunity and have for years. It didn't get LAN mad. If anything, it was simply reallocating excess planes from drastically reduced Wi
52 SCL767 : That is correct. In April, AA will increase frequency on the MIA-GYE route from 10x weekly to 2x daily. Earlier this month, LAN increased frequency o
53 EricR : Allow me to illustrate for you. DFW to: BOG - No service LIM - Discontinued for several years CCS - Discontinued once, now one flight per week (if de
54 Cubsrule : Is there any US city not called Miami or Washington that can sustain Bolivia service? IAH-VVI might be interesting for gas industry connections, but
55 LAXdude1023 : DFW is never going to see service to those cities. IAH cant even sustain those sans UIO. Again, the only holes in the DFW-South American network have
56 EricR : Hence my point. The demand is not to/from DFW or the western U.S. The demand is headed towards the eastern half of the U.S. DFW cannot support it on
57 LAXdude1023 : Then do it. You havent explained anything specific nor have you outlined anything, youre just throwing around generalities. Ill happily be PMing you
58 IrishAyes : My apologies, I was told a different rumor. Why then did AA pull the 3x weekly frequencies on DFWSCL? Of the 10 routes you listed, only three have ev
59 SCL767 : IIRC, AA operated the DFW-SCL route 10x weekly only for a few weeks. This season AA is operating DFW-SCL daily and MIA-SCL 2x daily. Next week, LA wi
60 EricR : Come on now......Call it what you want, but the fact that AA only has one weekly flight to the northern half of South America from DFW is weak. The l
61 IrishAyes : Of course it is weak. Did I ever say it wasn't??? Clearly, you have issues with this passion. Hate to break it to you, but my passion is equally grou
62 EricR : Then why were you so defensive when I previously stated that demand was weak? This goes back to what I said that you are letting your passion cloud y
63 AAIL86 : For comparison (week of 03FEB13 as per the GDS) Right now UA serves the following from Houston (weekly) - BOG 14x, CCS 7x, UIO 7x, LIM 7x, GIG 7x, GR
64 EricR : Because the thread is littered with inaccuracies and false conclusions. For example, let's look at your comparison. To make this an accurate comparis
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