Quote:
Vijay Mallya is ready to infuse Rs 425 crore($77 million) into the airline and restart its limited operations as soon as DGCA gives a go-ahead, the lead lender to the grounded carrier said today.
Acharya also said Mallya did not ask for any fresh lending, saying the promised Rs 425 crore will come from his own resources. He also said that Mallya did not reveal the name of investors/airlines that he is in discussion with.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 1, posted (5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 16747 times:
Earlier in the day Jet AirwaysBSE 1.34 % surged nearly 5 per cent to hit its highest level in nearly two years to Rs 636.70 on hopes Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways will buy a stake in the carrier. A business daily reported on Monday that Etihad may decide as early as this week whether it will invest in Jet Airways or in grounded rival Kingfisher Airlines, citing two people familiar with the matter.
From a link noting lenders refuse to loan IT any more funds:
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 3, posted (5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16605 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 2): Is there a limit on the number of messages on A.net that requires us to start a new thread?
One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule). I hope many of you will keep an eye out on no. of posts and start a new thread when no. of posts have exceeded 200.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16592 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3): One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule)
Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16500 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 4): Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.
Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Gr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16478 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 4): Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):One can start a new thread after 200 posts(forum rule)
Thanks. From your answer it appears that we CAN start a new thread after 200 posts i.e. optional, not that we MUST start a new thread (mandatory). So why do we impose this rule? Would love to understand the logic behind this. Thanks in advance.
Being one of the members who spotted the very 1st thread #1 from LAXDESI, I remember that for the initial 20-30 threads they used to switch to the next # after 100 posts......then it was decided that we change at 200, as the numbers began to advance too quickly......makes it easier to read too......beyond 150 or so, you start losing important posts within the thread.....
The thread has matured a lot since the early days......
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5): Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6): I remember that for the initial 20-30 threads they used to switch to the next # after 100 posts......then it was decided that we change at 200, as the numbers began to advance too quickly......makes it easier to read too......beyond 150 or so, you start losing important posts within the thread.....
At some point A.net changed the rules on country specific threads to a minimum of 200 posts. I didn't notice the rule change and one of the new thread was deleted by the mods as the previous one had not reached 200 posts.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7): less than 200 posts make thread reading easier.......normally Laxdesi gets the honour of starting the next thread,unless it does not.......
I would like others to take collective responsibility to start a new thread after 200 posts. It doesn't have to be exactly at 200 posts, but somewhere between 200 and 210 posts will be a good range.
Quote:
Exactly a decade after he launched India's first low-cost carrier (LCC) Air Deccan and five years after he was forced to sell it off, Captain G R Gopinath is all set to make a comeback with a startup. Three foreign LCCs are learnt to have approached him to take up to 49% stake in the proposed new venture for which he has already applied to the aviation ministry to get a licence. The non-compete agreement Gopinath signed while selling Deccan to Vijay Mallya's now-grounded Kingfisher in 2007 ends on January 28, 2013. Gopinath told TOI on Monday that he will finalize the partner in two to three months and hopes to launch the airline by mid-2013.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 10, posted (5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16201 times:
Dreamliners make Air India's Delhi-Frankfurt route profitable. Based on the numbers in the article, it costs about $135 million less annually to operate this route with 787 than 777. The 772L has 17 more J and 8 more F seats than 788. AI would have to sell each of these 25 extra F/J seats for about $15,000(one way) to offset the operational cost savings over 788. http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...rofitable/articleshow/17685393.cms
Quote:
"The airline is able to save at least Rs 20 lakh per flight after the Dreamliner is deployed. After four long loss-making years, we are making profit on this route now," said a top Air India official, who didn't wish to be identified.
But some commanders are a bit skeptical of the Dreamliner strategy. While some senior AI commanders agree that operational costs may have come down because of the deployment of the Boeing 787s, they argue that revenues too have slipped. "When we compare the Boeing 787 with the Boeing 777s, there's a fuel cost saving of about 17 lakh for a seven hour flight as there is a 12 tonnes less fuel burn per hour on a 787 when you compare it with the 777. But the Boeing 787 has fewer business class seats - 18 against 35 on a 777. So, essentially there's a dip in revenue though the operating cost might have come down. But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified.
Ilove747 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 8 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16090 times:
"But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified."
The Senior Commander doesnt really understand profitability. AI have to reduce costs to what revenue they can realistically achieve on that route. The article sort of hints that selling the extra premium seating on the 777's is a problem for AI. Hope some sense prevails at AI HQ.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16063 times:
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10): Based on the numbers in the article, it costs about $135 million less annually to operate this route with 787 than 777.
My numbers were a bit less, I'll have to go sharpen my pencil. Note: I'm talking a figure of say $90 million and not claiming there is not a significant cost difference.
Edit: Is this difference due to the Indian tax on jet fuel? What is the tax rate per gallon/pound/ton?
Either way, it shows the 77L/77E must either be flying long haul or should have been the 77W that has the volume for the revenue. DEL-FRA is simply not a long enough route to 'stretch the legs' of the 77L. Heck, its well within A333 range!
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10): AI would have to sell each of these 25 extra F/J seats for about $15,000(one way) to offset the operational cost savings over 788.
Not possible. EI simply doesn't have that RASM.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10): But the target should be to bolster revenue and not look at cutting operational costs alone," said a senior AI commander, choosing not to be identified.
I think now that J is at the level of sales, this individual is upset that there are not available seats. If the seats were not sold, there is no 'dip in revenue.' Since pilots have an income incentive to fly the 777, they will justify the plane when it is a money loser.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 11): So is EY still deciding which of the two girls it is going to bed with?
I think EY is trying to get the cost of the preferred one down...
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16018 times:
Quoting Ilove747 (Reply 12): The Senior Commander doesnt really understand profitability. AI have to reduce costs to what revenue they can realistically achieve on that route.
Indeed
Thankfully, it is not in the job description of a pilot to understand revenue management functions
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13): Edit: Is this difference due to the Indian tax on jet fuel? What is the tax rate per gallon/pound/ton?
Tax rate is ridiculously high. Depending on the state, it can range between 20 and 35%.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15885 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14): Tax rate is ridiculously high. Depending on the state, it can range between 20 and 35%.
Thank you. A 35% tax 'closes the gap' so to speak. I'm just having trouble believing India has done that to its airlines. That handicaps their airlines on long haul.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15815 times:
Given the above discussion, just FYI, there is a gap between ATF prices for international and domestic services. Certain taxes are not applicable on international services.
Prices taken from IOCL website
Prices in Rs/kl for ATF for domestic ops
Applicable from: December 01, 2012
Delhi 67709.12
Kolkata 75166.19
Mumbai 68392.80
Chennai 71775.03
Prices in $/kl for ATF for international ops
Applicable from: December 01, 2012
Delhi 951.48
Kolkata 996.78
Mumbai 952.33
Chennai 953.19
At today's USD:INR exchange rate of 1:55.12 that means ATF costs Rs 52445.58/kl for international operations, which is by my math 29% per cent more - basically no local sales tax or various cess items.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 21, posted (5 months 23 hours ago) and read 15592 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16): Thank you. A 35% tax 'closes the gap' so to speak. I'm just having trouble believing India has done that to its airlines. That handicaps their airlines on long haul.
Foreign flights are exempt from state VAT and central sales tax. I am not sure about the excise duty. Indian Oil has a page showing domestic and international prices in Rs. and USD per Kilo-litre. There is a small doubt. IOCL site shows price to "foreign airlines" but I am reasonably sure it applies to "foreign flights"
This is based on the premise that taxes should not be exported. Cricket, you can please check and confirm, but I think this is part of the WTO requirements.
Sorry for a long explanation, but laws are convoluted. There are two different sets of taxes. One is Federal (Central in India) and one state.
Federal Taxes will include customs duty on the imports whether it be crude, or a finished product. Imports will also pay a countervailing duty (CVD) which is equal to the rate of excise duty, a manufacturing tax charged on domestic production. Imports are also subject to Special Additional Duty, aptly abbreviated to SAD, which is equal to the rate of the state VAT payable in the state in which the goods have landed for clearance. However, re-sellers/traders are allowed to claim this amount back, since they will pay VAT when they re-sell the product. For interstate sales there is a Central Sales Tax which is equal to the rate of VAT charged in the originating or destined state, whichever is higher.
This CVD+SAD is to make the taxation on imports equal to what gets charged on a domestic product, for a level playing field.
So if someone imports ATF in finished form they will pay Customs+CVD+SAD. If a refinery imports crude and cracks it domestically, they will pay customs in the crude and then excise duty + State VAT or Central Sales Tax (for interstate sales) on the ATF.
Another significant reason for ATF to be high is that the oil marketing companies (OMCs) like Indian Oil, et. al., who are bleeding due to the government's populist profligacy on kerosene and diesel, charge a whopping 15%~20% profit margin on ATF which the government is happy to let them, since flying, in their eyes, is a luxury for the rich.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14): Thankfully, it is not in the job description of a pilot to understand revenue management functions
Oh, but it is Rohit, cost management absolutely is. Ask any pilot from IndiGo or RyanAir on how tight their leashes are. From the flight characteristics (routing, altitude, continuous descent, etc.) there is a constant competition amongst pilots in the world on who uses the least fuel. Most airlines in India today taxi on one engine, after landing, for fuel savings.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5): Loading time for pages increases greatly as posts add up.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 months 17 hours ago) and read 15514 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 21): Oh, but it is Rohit, cost management absolutely is. Ask any pilot from IndiGo or RyanAir on how tight their leashes are. From the flight characteristics (routing, altitude, continuous descent, etc.) there is a constant competition amongst pilots in the world on who uses the least fuel. Most airlines in India today taxi on one engine, after landing, for fuel savings.
"how tight their leashes..."
Precisely my point. Management sets SOP, pilots carry it out. Certainly, I'd hope that most understand basic economics (if I use less fuel, the fuel cost will be less), but the comment he made clearly shows that he doesn't understand the revenue generation issues AI faces. Just because a seat is there, doesn't mean it will be filled.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 24, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15238 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 22): Just because a seat is there, doesn't mean it will be filled.
I have a serious question and I'm not sure how to ask it... There has been discussion here on how AI gives seats to political influence. Does having fewer J seats DEL-FRA mean that AI has a chance to sell them first? If the added seats had to be given away an now all the seats (or most) are sold, it is a benefit to cut costs if it is revenue neutral. I speculate that AI hasn't lost any revenue. Not from lack of demand, but lack of demand from customers who had to pay (couldn't use political influence for free seats).
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 21): Foreign flights are exempt from state VAT and central sales tax.
Thank you. Then the gap opens and I'm calculating a narrow cost difference between the 788 and 77L. Hmmm...
sadly with AI this will never stop, a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.
The problem with AI is because of their unionized work force and their "nothing can happen to us" attitude there are multiple cases where they refuse Revenue passengers a seat in order to accommodate sub load passengers, such a thing does not even happen with Biman
sturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15321 times:
Not to sidetrack the extremely interesting discussion going on ..but I had a quick question. Just landed in MAA a coupla hours ago and saw both the AI 332s there (IWB was just taking off) ..any idea what routes they operate ex MAA? Thanks!
sturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15189 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 28): The AI 332s are frequently used as a replacement for the Dreamliner. Also used on the Haj routes. Smell like flying lavatories.
Thanks for that info, will certainly not venture on the 332s then . Still haven't managed to get on the AI 787 yet, how often do they get yanked from the domestic runs? How much longer will they fly domestic?
Frankly, little surprise there, I have a feeling that they were backing on a quick infusion of funds by a foreign partner, but Etihad seems to be taking its own sweet time. Plus, Ajit Singh's comments ought to be seen as a fact that he has a feeling that EY will eventually invest in 9W, because, if for no other fact, Jet Airways is a going, operating company. It will be interesting to see whether any other airlines look at the Indian market, but I still feel that it will be cheaper to start a new airline than revive Kingfisher. Mallya has burned so many bridges with aircraft manufacturers, leasing companies, banks, suppliers and even politicians by now that I personally doubt KFA will ever fly again.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 31, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14943 times:
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14927 times:
Do you know how service is on 9W flights to the ME? I might fly 9W on BOM-AUH as part of an itinerary involving EY and AA on the way back in March. Some cool itineraries on AA.com - BOM-AUH-MAN-ORD an a.nutter's dream!
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14605 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 28): The AI 332s are frequently used as a replacement for the Dreamliner. Also used on the Haj routes. Smell like flying lavatories.
Not anymore
They were sent in for heavy cleaning before Christmas-New Year holiday season.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 39, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14334 times:
Quoting ojas (Reply 37): With this 9W will operate 42 weekly flights out of DXB to India.
Something wrong with this number Ojas. 9W already had 5 daily to DXB (4 BOM 1 DEL) when they added 6 weekly IXE-DXB = 41. Now second daily DEL-DXB will make it 48. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am basing on the IXE-DXB flight announcement press release.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 41, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14052 times:
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25): just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.
What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!? J passengers tend to need to get where they are going rested and on time! That is just wrong... funny and sad at the same time.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 30):
The Aviation Minister has expressed doubts over the revival plan that KIngfisher Airlines has submitted to the DGCA.
As you note, little surprise.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 31): Jet Airways set to fly Mangalore-Dubai from January 3.
Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
Quoting ojas (Reply 37):
Effective 18JAN, 9W will launch a second daily flight between DEL and DXB. With this 9W will operate 42 weekly flights out of DXB to India.
Have the permissions suddenly opened up? I would expect 9W to launch at least a third flight to have one plane in each of EK's major waves. The four flights from Mumbai make sense.
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 42, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13894 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
Probably want to ramp up DXB operations before going to bed with EY.... coz then they might have to focus on AUH...
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13847 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!?
People who aren't politicians/politicians' friends?
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): J passengers tend to need to get where they are going rested and on time!
And AI's product usually delivers that... 81% OTP, comfortable seats...
Whether the customer is paying AI or AI is paying the customer isn't irrelevant...
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
No. The time between 9W announcing its intention to serve the route and permission being granted was less than a month.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3076 posts, RR: 9 Reply 44, posted (4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13798 times:
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25): sadly with AI this will never stop, a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.
Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9611 posts, RR: 10 Reply 45, posted (4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13823 times:
In the past 10 days I had 3 domestic flights in India, one with a Spice Jet 738, the others with A320s from Indigo and Go Air. All planes were less than 12 months old.
My verdict: Go Air no. 1, Indigo 2 and Spice Jet 3. In the densest LCC configuration the narrower 737 cant compete anymore, at least not for someone of my size. The Spice Jet 737 was a torture, the tightest seat I ever had.
ojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2785 posts, RR: 23 Reply 48, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13589 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): Have the permissions suddenly opened up? I would expect 9W to launch at least a third flight to have one plane in each of EK's major waves. The four flights from Mumbai make sense.
9W is using the existing rights to DXB, nothing new has been granted to them per se. 9W are allowed 42 weekly flights to DXB and were operating the same with HYD, MAA, DEL and 3 daily to BOM. It's just different cities and additional frequencies to existing one's that has changed.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
Same as above, however IXE - DXB was an airport specific issue where it was declared "international" just a couple of months ago and 9W launched this route.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13583 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 44): Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?
They have... Hence the "once" in OP.
Freeloaders are still there, mostly powerful political figures, but there are a lot more restrictions now. Even the spouses of employees have a tough time getting tickets now...
Quoting na (Reply 45): In the past 10 days I had 3 domestic flights in India, one with a Spice Jet 738, the others with A320s from Indigo and Go Air. All planes were less than 12 months old.
My verdict: Go Air no. 1, Indigo 2 and Spice Jet 3. In the densest LCC configuration the narrower 737 cant compete anymore, at least not for someone of my size. The Spice Jet 737 was a torture, the tightest seat I ever had.
I would tend to agree. I flew G8 for the first time on Sunday, and was very impressed. Definitely a step above 6E and SG 737s.
However, I'd say that the SG Q400s are the most comfortable aircraft in the fleet of Indian LCC's fleets. I also love IX's padding - very generous for Y.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
ojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2785 posts, RR: 23 Reply 51, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13534 times:
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 25): a friend of mine once told me there were 32 freeloaders or sub loaders in J on an LR flight to JFK, , 32 out of 35 seats, and the flight was full otherwise, just imagine the st.ate of mind of pax who wanted a revenue ticket and could not get one.
If they are subloaders, they are checked-in 10 minutes prior to closure of check-in, wherein a revenue passenger will not come in for a last minute ticket (and that too with AI). I doubt if 32 revenue passengers were ditched to accommodate this entourage. Not that I'm saying AI doesn't ditch revenue passengers for sub loaders at all, however that is done in a calculative manner.
And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat, I do not see anything wrong in it, or any content which should shock member lightsaber so much.
[Edited 2013-01-01 01:28:20]
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9611 posts, RR: 10 Reply 52, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13517 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 47): Are you referring on basis of seat pitch/leg room or seat width.
On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes. Flying on an LCC in densest configuration, at least from now on the 737 is a no-go for me, the A320 at least offers wider seats so a minimum of movement is possible. In the two months old Spice Jet 738 I couldnt move at all in my tight window seat, it felt even tighter than Ryanair. Another 737 letdown: its windows are located too low, even a bit lower than on the A320 (where they are also too low, more suitable for kids than men).
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 53, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13424 times:
What!?! Who would pay for J on AI if that were the case?!?
People who aren't politicians/politicians' friends?
But I was replying to them getting bumped by those politicians and the politician's friends. Who would pay for J when there is more than a more than 2% risk of getting bumped?
Quoting ojas (Reply 48): IXE - DXB was an airport specific issue where it was declared "international" just a couple of months ago and 9W launched this route.
Now that is interesting. How quickly are airports in India be 'declared international?'
Quoting ojas (Reply 49): 6E will replace BOM/DEL - SIN to HYD/MAA - SIN. So Singapore is not being terminated, it's being replaced by HYD and MAA.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13303 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 53): But I was replying to them getting bumped by those politicians and the politician's friends. Who would pay for J when there is more than a more than 2% risk of getting bumped?
There is a 0% chance of getting bumped, except equipment swap. AI does not oversell J.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 56, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13277 times:
Quoting ojas (Reply 51): And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat, I do not see anything wrong in it, or any content which should shock member lightsaber so much.
Recently on a long weekend in UAE, a certain sector on EK flight had 40+ subloaders.... all made the flight.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 57, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13219 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41): Interesting. I would have thought 9W would have been expanding even more to DXB. Is the Indian government slow in handing out permissions?
Quoting AirIndia (Reply 42): Probably want to ramp up DXB operations before going to bed with EY.... coz then they might have to focus on AUH...
Just to begin the new year on a conspiracy theory.
Is it possible that MoCA is giving DXB permissions to ensure the Indian side of DXB quota is filled. This way when they do grant permission to EK to go from present 55K seats per week to 89K seats per week, this will deflect criticism of the CAG?
Just a thought for those A.netters with ïnside" knowledge to discuss.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 58, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13206 times:
Quoting na (Reply 52): On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes. Flying on an LCC in densest configuration, at least from now on the 737 is a no-go for me, the A320 at least offers wider seats so a minimum of movement is possible.
Boeing 737s have 17" seat and depending on airline seat pitch is typically 31" for LCC and 32" or 33" for legacy. Total 189 seats. FR reduces to 30" but no increase in seats.
Airbus A320 is 18" seat width and typically 30" pitch in LCC. U2 is 29", though they get no benefit in additional seats. They have 183 seats while 6E has 180 like all other LCC. U2 gets the additional 3 seats by removing one of the two rear lavatories.
EK 777s which have 10 abreast seating are also at 17" seat width though many airlines with 9 abreast like BA do not offer wider seats by default.
karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2784 posts, RR: 19 Reply 59, posted (4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13199 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 44): Jeez - is this still the case? Hopefully things have been cleaned up (somewhat) at AI?
Yes things got a lot better after Jadhav had taken charge, he made some very good operational sound decisions , however staff hated him and without any political support he got the boot from the job,
Sad if you ask he was the one person who would provide AI some stability
The flight I mention was a JFK-BOM sector, a route no longer operated by the carrier and Jadhav rightfully axing it
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 50): Even the spouses of employees have a tough time getting tickets now...
That is not true , i have seen recent i.e. 2012 cases where "spouses", are given seats well in advance
Quoting ojas (Reply 51): And if indeed the flight is empty and they accommodated 35 staff on this flight, who are entitled to this seat,
Apparently the flight was full, the shocking bit is not 32 staff tickets, but 32 J Staff tickets
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 50): However, I'd say that the SG Q400s are the most comfortable aircraft in the fleet of Indian LCC's fleets.
While the q400 is a good aircraft , much more silent and better cabin appeal than the ATRs, the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied
Quoting ojas (Reply 49): So Singapore is not being terminated, it's being replaced by HYD and MAA.
The major VFR traffic to SIN is from MAA , so it makes much more sense to target these cities for a so called LCC like 6E
Whether they were entitled for Y and got into J is something to be investigated (that is if there is an iota of intention to do so by the airline). However, if the J class was empty and they accommodated 32 staff travelers; no big deal. Upper management families are entitled to J class sub load. So accepting 32 J class subload travelers isn't really that alarming. Qatar Airways has once taken 57 staff out of Mumbai.
It could also be the case where revenue J class passenger's were upgraded to First and the entourage was taken in J? I know for a fact on the EWR flight the chances of bumping into F from J are very high.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 61, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13164 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 57): Is it possible that MoCA is giving DXB permissions to ensure the Indian side of DXB quota is filled. This way when they do grant permission to EK to go from present 55K seats per week to 89K seats per week, this will deflect criticism of the CAG?
That was among Ajit Singhs first few statements after becoming MoCA that let the indian carriers start using their quota....
Quote: The government has decided not to sign any more Air Services Agreement (ASA) with other nations till Indian carriers exhaust their quota under the existing agreements. ASA decides the quota of seat allocation to airlines from other countries.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 62, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13136 times:
Quoting ojas (Reply 51): I doubt if 32 revenue passengers were ditched to accommodate this entourage.
Agreed.
Quoting na (Reply 52): On seat width, seat pitch was at the lower extreme on all planes.
seems like a Type issue .....
Quoting karan69 (Reply 59): the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13049 times:
Quoting karan69 (Reply 59): Yes things got a lot better after Jadhav had taken charge, he made some very good operational sound decisions , however staff hated him and without any political support he got the boot from the job,
Sad if you ask he was the one person who would provide AI some stability
The flight I mention was a JFK-BOM sector, a route no longer operated by the carrier and Jadhav rightfully axing it
I think Nandan has done a better job than Jadhav could have dreamed of. Being able to command support of workgroups and the government is a critical aspect of the job.
Quoting karan69 (Reply 59): That is not true , i have seen recent i.e. 2012 cases where "spouses", are given seats well in advance
I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it has gotten far more difficult.
Quoting karan69 (Reply 59): While the q400 is a good aircraft , much more silent and better cabin appeal than the ATRs, the SG ones have a beam like strutcture running all the way through the window rows, which forces you to sit in an uncomfortable position especially if your neighbouring seat is occupied
I didn't find it uncomfortable at all - I liked resting my feet on the beam. My 11th Q400 flight with a window seat was last week, and I have no intention of changing my travel patterns back home to IXE. The Q is just too comfortable and convenient.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2784 posts, RR: 19 Reply 65, posted (4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12835 times:
Guys I posted on the Turkish Aviation thread that some sources suggest the 9W has signed a 4 aircraft deal with TK for the 777s, these are the ones that are currently with Thai
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 66, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12737 times:
Firstly, Happy New Year to everyone, I was on my annual "offline" vacation. Secondly, my first question of the year.
Anyone here know which lounges in India give access to Priority Pass holders?
And in other news, airport fees at DEL have finally fallen (thank god!), although I wonder what will happen to the fees that passengers have already paid for flights after Jan 1 in advance.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 67, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12655 times:
Anyone know what is going on with AI and YYZ. They were supposed to resume DEL-YYZ in March, but they have canceled those plans. There is now no planned service resumption date for Toronto.
Awesome news - though I was selfishly hoping it would be a *A carrier that starts BLR - even UA from it's massive hub at NRT, or ideally NH with their BBJ to get started.
pnqiad From India, joined May 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0 Reply 71, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12540 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 66): And the EY saga continues, I heard on CNBC-TV18 that EY wasn't really interested in taking on Kingfisher's debt burden. Who would have thunk that?
Apparently EY is now in talks with 9W for a stake...
As I said I liked the aircraft , I found that foot rest odd, ultra convenient if the aisle seat is empty,
If you don't mind me asking how tall and heavy are you, I am nearly 6 feet and 82 kgs, hence my stature makes that footrest rather unnecessary for me
I'm 1.8m, 65kgs - not so different...
Quoting brahmin (Reply 72): My friend got bumped today, 4 Jan., on AI 191 from BOM to EWR. AI sent them home and said that they might possibly get a seat tomorrow.
My friend is too innocent for this. She is thinking of buying a one-way ticket back to New York.
I have asked her to demand compensation, get upgraded and/or get put on some other airline.
What rights does she have and what should she do?
I already responded to this on FT, but I forgot to add: when flying without status always on-line check in, especially during holiday season.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Quoting brahmin (Reply 72): My friend got bumped today, 4 Jan., on AI 191 from BOM to EWR. AI sent them home and said that they might possibly get a seat tomorrow.
Why did she get bumped? What were the reasons given? Are they in writing? Did she meet with a duty manager? Name? Time? i.e. can she prove she was bumped i.e. denied boarding, and not merely a "no-show" as the airline will claim. Sorry to be playing devil's advocate here.
ACT7 From Canada, joined Nov 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12037 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 67): Anyone know what is going on with AI and YYZ. They were supposed to resume DEL-YYZ in March, but they have canceled those plans. There is now no planned service resumption date for Toronto.http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/03/ai-yyz-mar13update/Thenoflyzone[Edited 2013-01-03 06:35:05]
It's bizarre. I'm hearing that AI has major issues with that flight starting in Amritsar and has been wanting to get rid of that leg for quite some time. The AI pilot's strike gave them impetus to do so.
ojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2785 posts, RR: 23 Reply 77, posted (4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11645 times:
Effective 01MAR, IndiGo Airlines will start daily flights between DXB and TRV. Also on the same day 6E will start it's second flight between BOM and DXB. With this 6E will have 56 weekly flights out of DXB to India.
6E 037 DXB - TRV 1820 2115
6E 038 TRV - DXB 1125 1515
6E 063 BOM - DXB 0835 1025
6E 064 DXB - BOM 1125 1555
Aircraft: A320
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
Aerosvit B738 UR-AAN (38119) was ferried from Kiev to Istanbul/Sabiha Gokcen on 10/1 for transfer to Ukraine International as UR-PSE & returned to Kiev on 11/1. UR-AAO (38120) will also transfer to Ukraine International as UR-PSF. All the B763s are to be returned to the lessor & will be replaced by five former Air India B772s, which will join Ukraine International from March onwards.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 79, posted (4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11232 times:
Thread is moving a bit slow.....
From todays news:
QR interested in a spicy meal....
Quote: Low-cost carrier (LCC) SpiceJet could be the second Indian carrier after Jet Airways to get foreign direct investment from an international airline. The LCC is reportedly in talks with some foreign carriers, with highly-placed sources saying Gulf carrier Qatar Airways being the most likely suitor, and the deal could materialize this quarter.
NG already informed BSE about EY's intentions
Quote: The aviation ministry has not officially been informed of an impending stake sale in the LCC to a foreign airline, unlike the Jet-Etihad talks which have now been confirmed by Naresh Goyal's carrier to the BSE. "The information we have gathered is that SpiceJet may be selling stake to Qatar Airways but we are waiting for a word from the airline," said a senior official.
In a move that could generate more controversy for the proposed Jet Airways-Etihad deal, Air India has written to the Ministry of Civil Aviation saying that allowing the deal to go through could affect the overall complexion of international air passenger flow to and from India.
/unquote
I thought the FDI limit was 49% i the first place. Neither will AI clean up its house nor will it let any private carrier prosper as well. The *A drama in itself runs like the never ending tele serials of a certain production house in India.
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 81, posted (4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11116 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 70):
Awesome news - though I was selfishly hoping it would be a *A carrier that starts BLR - even UA from it's massive hub at NRT, or ideally NH with their BBJ to get started.
would UA ever start BLR, seeing as 3 Star carriers (LH, SQ and TG) already service BLR? Moreover, any new news about TK starting BLR? I know last i heard it was HYD and MAA....
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 83, posted (4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11062 times:
I just flew in and out of CCU; the new terminal seems to have much of the civil work, that is the structure complete but contact gates are just being added and it appeared that work has not even started inside the terminal. Meanwhile in the existing domestic terminal the rush is incredible, security queues are unbearably long and flights get routinely delayed because passengers are stuck in security queues, after having spent a rather painful time on the roads to the airport which are clogged due to infrastructure work on flyovers and the Kolkata Metro improvement.
The new terminal at CCU has missed several deadlines already and it does not appear likely that it will meet its (present) deadline. I personally don't expect the terminal to open before late-2013 at the earliest.
Thanks for the link. Really interesting news if confirmed. Aerosvit is not doing too well and I am not sure if they are out of bankruptcy. How are they financing this? They cancelled a lot of flights this month.
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 85, posted (4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10959 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 82): I don't think TK has any plans for BLR
there was a meeting not too long ago between Turkish and Indian officials; the Turkish side mentioned that TK was looking to expand to CCU, BLR, MAA and HYD
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 86, posted (4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10748 times:
Quick question - I saw two of the CD (Air India Express) CRJ-700's parked at the domestic hangers in DEL - VT-RJC without both engines and VT-RJD without the left engine and the right engine all taped up. Anyone know the exact status of these aircraft? Here is a picture that I caught from my flight.
"Turkish Airlines has also applied for approval to double the number of daily flights it runs from New Delhi and Mumbai. The airline has also applied to operate services to Chennai, Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Kolkata, Ahmedabad and Amritsar."
I really doubt this story. A pilot even in AI simply cannot overrule the instruction from crew scheduling. Let us assume that she did disobey the instruction, they must have had some other pilot at the airport who would operate the Jodhpur flight, she was scheduled to operate.
He/she could have operated the 2.00 PM flight to DEL.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted (4 months 5 days ago) and read 10527 times:
Quoting himmat01 (Reply 89):
I really doubt this story. A pilot even in AI simply cannot overrule the instruction from crew scheduling. Let us assume that she did disobey the instruction, they must have had some other pilot at the airport who would operate the Jodhpur flight, she was scheduled to operate.
He/she could have operated the 2.00 PM flight to DEL.
So TOI is making up a fake story (It is TOI, but still...). ?
VTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 93, posted (4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10185 times:
This is my first post on A.net so please excuse my ignorance.
A year ago I travelled to BOM on DL-AF via CDG and they charged me $60 for my second bag at ORD. I was not charged at BOM. My bro-in-law told me that DGCA does not allow carriers to charge the 2nd bag fee for internationals out of India. Is this rule still in place? My buddy is traveling back after getting married and I guess he has baggage! He is traveling DL-KL via AMS.
I just booked UA for myself and my ticket states that I will be charged $100 for the second bag in BOM too. I was trying to look up the DGCA website but could not find anything there. Any idea?
Thanks
Ameya
Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 94, posted (4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10140 times:
Quoting VTORD (Reply 93): My bro-in-law told me that DGCA does not allow carriers to charge the 2nd bag fee for internationals out of India. Is this rule still in place?
This rule was never in place
Quoting VTORD (Reply 93): I just booked UA for myself and my ticket states that I will be charged $100 for the second bag in BOM too. I was trying to look up the DGCA website but could not find anything there. Any idea?
A3*G will give you 3 bags free. A couple trips to India should do it...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 98, posted (3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9361 times:
Interesting Supreme Court ruling on airline fares in India. Airlines will likely now have to lump all the overheads into one consolidated fare, which will definitely be useful for passengers booking tix. That said, I believe that airline fares ought not to be regulated. There is no doubt that in real terms, airline fares are less than half of what they were a decade agao.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 99, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9126 times:
Jet Airways expects nearly $300 million for its 24% stake sale to Ethiad. Are slots easily available at Munich?
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...ng-closer/articleshow/18186783.cms
Quote:
After intense speculation for months, India's largest airline by way of market capitalisation Naresh Goyal's Jet Airways, - is set to announce a deal with Abu-Dhabi based carrier Etihad in the first week of February, sources said.
"Jet Airways' overseas base may even be shifted to Munich from Brussels and a major part of overseas operations would be sourced to and from Abu Dhabi as per the deal," sources added.
COEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 305 posts, RR: 4 Reply 100, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9079 times:
So did the President get around to inaugurating the new T2 at CCU on the 24th as was scheduled, or did that slip again?
Oh no it happened on time with a CCU-DEL-LHR AI flight being the first one to operate from there.
But strangely regular ops are still from the old terminals even now.
I just went through CCU last weekend, looked all built up from the outside and indeed very beautiful with the L shaped design, but approach roads are a total mess, and the flyover leading to the new terminal is still not completed yet.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 107, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8559 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 103): Whats the news on this Airline now.....
I thought some of the CR7's were still being used on regional flights - I do believe that the masses of old CRJ's and E145's can be successfully utilised in India by a small start-up carrier connecting regional hubs.
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8392 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 107): I thought some of the CR7's were still being used on regional flights - I do believe that the masses of old CRJ's and E145's can be successfully utilised in India by a small start-up carrier connecting regional hubs.
Would this be viable - given their high CASM and high taxes/fuel costs in India - and also that fares in India continue to be probably too low? I would doubt that 50-seat RJs could work in India. Maybe for AI because they don't actually have to turn a profit. Am surprised that more Indian carriers don't have large prop fleets - I'd think those are perfect to connect small/medium sized cities.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 113, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8041 times:
Today's Times of India had an item on AI Cabin Crew in Chicago getting into a fight with cops called in etc., they might get banned from entering the US in the future. If true, what action can AI take and can the Chicago Police charge these folks with anything?
flyhigh@tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 116, posted (3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8022 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 115): It appears that 'Sexy' is one of the first airlines in the world to take delivery of a sharklet-equipped A320; anyone know the registration?
errr...don't understand the 'sexy' remark for indigo...has it got anything to do with the airline?
Worldwide air asia first started operating 320s with the sharklets. A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets. True that indigo happens to be the first IAE powered A320 to operate the sharklet version. (not that i am a major fan of that engine type. pain in the backside to wait for those engines to start unlike the CFM 56 )
flyhigh@tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 118, posted (3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7982 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 117): Their code '6E' was chosen for a reason by Rahul Bhatia, say is fast and you know why all of us in the aviation journalism space call them 'Sexy'
yup 6E 6E 6E got it !!!! LOL
Initially reading your post i thought maybe the new aircraft was registered VT-SXY or maybe they were running some ads on the Indian mass media....
On other news recently in SHJ saw a couple of 6E aircraft and i was thinking finally the Indian carriers have started operating to SHJ and DXB...after all...but was disappointed to know they were just diversions from DXB due to ATC congestion in the DXB airspace itself.
Now this is funny both SHJ and DXB share the same approach controller but very much often than not the controller directs the inbound DXB traffic to enter the hold for 20 mins whereas us going to SHJ get directed to the final approach fix and to maintain high speed. Am pretty sure all the pilots who have operated to SHJ will know what i am saying is the truth.
So if MOCA wants the indian private carriers to increase their flights and seats to the middle east why not start services to SHJ instead of clamoring for the already overcrowded and congested DXB???? DXB and SHJ are just 16 kms apart! i hope 6E and SJ would start SHJ apart from DXB as well.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 120, posted (3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7934 times:
Quoting himmat01 (Reply 114): I think DHL partly owns Blue Dart. Blue Dart had some kind of an agreement with FedEx back in the 1990s.
Yes. Thanks for correcting me. I meant DHL owning Blue Dart. FedEx since then joined hands with Pafex (Prakash Air Freight Express) and now has its own presence in India.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 115): It appears that 'Sexy' is one of the first airlines in the world to take delivery of a sharklet-equipped A320; anyone know the registration?
Dada, I am not allowed to toot my own horn, but we were covering the saga of VT-IFH from the time it came out of the FAL. Photos and all, right from being towed out from the FAL.
Quoting flyhigh@tom (Reply 116): A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets.
Yes. A6-ANO. Next will be GoAir VT-GOL followed by IndiGo VT-IFI. The first A319 Sharklet is getting ready for TACA Airlines.
Salaries are being paid to 9W staff mid month post 15th.....for many months now.
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 112):
Does not FedEx already own Blue Dart or a part of it?
Quoting himmat01 (Reply 114):
I think DHL partly owns Blue Dart. Blue Dart had some kind of an agreement with FedEx back in the 1990s.
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 120): Yes. Thanks for correcting me. I meant DHL owning Blue Dart. FedEx since then joined hands with Pafex (Prakash Air Freight Express) and now has its own presence in India.
Blue Dart is Owned by DHL.
FeDex is planning a domestic start up cargo Airline with PAFEX soon too.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 122, posted (3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7923 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 120): Dada, I am not allowed to toot my own horn, but we were covering the saga of VT-IFH from the time it came out of the FAL. Photos and all, right from being towed out from the FAL.
Quoting flyhigh@tom (Reply 116):
A weekback air arabia in sharjah also started operating its newest 320 with the sharklets.
Yes. A6-ANO. Next will be GoAir VT-GOL followed by IndiGo VT-IFI. The first A319 Sharklet is getting ready for TACA Airlines.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 124, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7686 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 123): Thanks. Look forward to your critical analysis and comments. BTW, GoAir has taken delivery of its first A320 Sharklet VT-GOL today.
Interesting, been hearing rumours that as Go keeps increasing their fleet they might get permission to operate some international sectors soon...
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 125, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7478 times:
This story appeared in Times of India today claiming that Paramount Airways MD M Thiagrajan has met officials from the MoCA and DGCA and claims that he has the funds to start flying again. IIRC Paramount had defaulted on dues, particularly to leasing companies and GECAS had got two of their planes deregistered. I believe one E-175 is still lying about at MAA. Anyway, more details here would be appreciated.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 126, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7366 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 125): This story appeared in Times of India today claiming that Paramount Airways MD M Thiagrajan has met officials from the MoCA and DGCA and claims that he has the funds to start flying again. IIRC Paramount had defaulted on dues, particularly to leasing companies and GECAS had got two of their planes deregistered. I believe one E-175 is still lying about at MAA. Anyway, more details here would be appreciated.
There was something reported about Paramount winning a lawsuit and using that money to restart IIRC...
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 128, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7431 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 127): That was the first case against GECAS IIRC, but that was back in 2009/10. Even then, this restart will involve A321's and ATR's apparently
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 129, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7408 times:
Returned to BLR on BA yesterday early a.m. and saw a billboard on NH 7 for some kind of an air show next week. Can anyone kindly enlighten me about this? Will it be fun to attend? Thanks in advance.
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7365 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 129): Returned to BLR on BA yesterday early a.m. and saw a billboard on NH 7 for some kind of an air show next week. Can anyone kindly enlighten me about this?
https://www.aeroindia.in/Default.aspx
Admission policy is as follows: https://www.aeroindia.in/ADMISSIONPOLICY.pdf
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 131, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7305 times:
ojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2785 posts, RR: 23 Reply 133, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7008 times:
Didn't notice this one.
According to the GDS, Oman Air has also increased MCT - HYD flights from daily to double daily effective February. Total weekly flights by WY to India stands at 96 flights per week covering 10 destinations.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 134, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6902 times:
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 137, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6445 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 136): Where is the AERO-INDIA 2013 thread on this site...
Man, I hear you. I was hoping some of our BLR based a.netters would post pictures at least.
So I did attend the show and had a great time. The airshows were really breathtaking, starting with a Tiger Moth. The most impressive was the Su-30 aerobatics, closely followed by the Rafale display. The Red Bull team was great, as was the Rudra(?) helo flying backwards.
There were plenty of attendees, and I was very impressed by the sharp turnout of the IAF and IA officers. Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders at a very young age! I think the defence of India is in good hands.
Interesting to see the domination of the booths by Israel Aircraft Industries and the various ex Soviet firms, like United Aircraft.
The only downside was the endless loop of Kenny G on the loudspeakers and the Air Marshal's blue Ambassador with three stars parked next to the British High Commissioner's sleek BMW.
I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 139, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6297 times:
All -- I am looking for int'l pax traffic numbers for Indian airports, esp CCU. Any tips on where I can get this info? Specifically looking for number of int'l pax handle by CCU in 2011 or 2012. Thanks.
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 141, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6130 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 137): British High Commissioner's sleek BMW
i thought the british ambassadors and commissioners were mandated to drive around in Brit cars. The ambassador gets a Rolls Royce, the high commissioners shd have Jags atleast.........
Quoting comorin (Reply 137): I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.
BLRAviation should have some pics as tweeted/blogged by them recently.
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 142, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6092 times:
Yes, the British HC in Delhi has a vintage Roller. The BMW in Bangalore had a Union Jack on it - just denotes the car he is traveling in. High Commissioners and Ambassadors have the same diplomatic rank, the former title is used for Commonwealth countries.
caliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 143, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6082 times:
any updates on new routes from BLR? I seem to recall that Virgin Atlantic wanted to start a route from BLR to LHR...
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 145, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5841 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 139): All -- I am looking for int'l pax traffic numbers for Indian airports, esp CCU. Any tips on where I can get this info? Specifically looking for number of int'l pax handle by CCU in 2011 or 2012. Thanks.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 146, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
Interesting story by Sindhu, makes sense in the light of Indigo being denied acquisition rights for some of the newer planes - they might be forced to start a regional airline
"Japan Airlines (JAL) wants to start a Bangalore Tokyo service, but does not have any plans to do so in the near future, Masaru Onishi, Chairman of the airline, told Bangalore Aviation on the sidelines of the Oneworld event to mark the entry of Malaysia Airlines in to the alliance."
"We we asked about JAL tapping in to the large India to US West Coast market, Onishi explained that JAL already had very high passenger load factors on its trans-Pacific flights, that too from high yield markets like Japan, which makes the airline uncompetitive in low yield markets like India."
I dont understand the last part; does that mean they dont have the capacity for those connecting from India to the west coast or they just wont make any money off the tickets?
anshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 149, posted (3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5541 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 137): Man, I hear you. I was hoping some of our BLR based a.netters would post pictures at least.
So I did attend the show and had a great time. The airshows were really breathtaking, starting with a Tiger Moth. The most impressive was the Su-30 aerobatics, closely followed by the Rafale display. The Red Bull team was great, as was the Rudra(?) helo flying backwards.
There were plenty of attendees, and I was very impressed by the sharp turnout of the IAF and IA officers. Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders at a very young age! I think the defence of India is in good hands.
Interesting to see the domination of the booths by Israel Aircraft Industries and the various ex Soviet firms, like United Aircraft.
The only downside was the endless loop of Kenny G on the loudspeakers and the Air Marshal's blue Ambassador with three stars parked next to the British High Commissioner's sleek BMW.
I couldn't get decent pictures with my camera so I hope others will post.
I'm glad you got to go! I've been to every edition since the first in 1996 (may have been 1995), and I was gutted to have missed this one. The show had a lot to do with my love for aviation today. I think the 2007 and 2009 were the biggest by far because of the competition for IAF contract for 126 fighter aircraft - the Americans and Swedes stayed away this time, having lost out in the race. Even the Surya Kiran Acrobatic Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surya_Kiran) team wasn't this year, but I heard the White Knights more than made up for their absence. Glad to hear you had a good time! The show is organised by the Ministry of Defence, and the entire Indian Air Force puts its rather significant weight behind it!
Quoting AirIndia (Reply 141): i thought the british ambassadors and commissioners were mandated to drive around in Brit cars. The ambassador gets a Rolls Royce, the high commissioners shd have Jags atleast.........
Within the British Commonwealth, diplomatic missions all have different designations. The Embassy is known as the High Commission and the Ambassador is known as the High Commissioner. An Ambassador is supposed to be the representative of the Head of State, but because the Monarch of the United Kingdom is or used to be the Head of State, they have an entirely different system, where the High Commissioner is a person with the rank of an Ambassador accredited to St James Court. On a different note, the Representatives of the Holy See (the Vatican City) are called "Nuncio's" and their diplomatic missions are called Apostolic Nunciatures. Interestingly, Bangalore had some form of representation from the Vatican City, but I'm not sure about whether it still exists or if it had an diplomatic status...
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 150, posted (3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 148): "We we asked about JAL tapping in to the large India to US West Coast market, Onishi explained that JAL already had very high passenger load factors on its trans-Pacific flights, that too from high yield markets like Japan, which makes the airline uncompetitive in low yield markets like India."
I dont understand the last part; does that mean they dont have the capacity for those connecting from India to the west coast or they just wont make any money off the tickets?
It is the latter. What he is basically saying is he does not want to allocate capacty on the high yield Japan-Transpacific flights to lower yield India O&D connecting passengers. Similar reason as to why BA is not targetting India volumes quite as much as LH -- BA does not want to allocate its high yield London outbound capacity to lower yield India O&D connecting pax.
Gr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 151, posted (3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
Quoting anshuk (Reply 149): Within the British Commonwealth, diplomatic missions all have different designations. The Embassy is known as the High Commission and the Ambassador is known as the High Commissioner. An Ambassador is supposed to be the representative of the Head of State, but because the Monarch of the United Kingdom is or used to be the Head of State, they have an entirely different system, where the High Commissioner is a person with the rank of an Ambassador accredited to St James Court. On a different note, the Representatives of the Holy See (the Vatican City) are called "Nuncio's" and their diplomatic missions are called Apostolic Nunciatures. Interestingly, Bangalore had some form of representation from the Vatican City, but I'm not sure about whether it still exists or if it had an diplomatic status...
Similarly, India has a "High Commission" in Ottawa and Canada has a "High Commission" in New Delhi.....
sturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 152, posted (3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5380 times:
Just landed in BLR this afternoon from DEL, and spotted two unusual aircraft on the ramp. One was a UN B763 parked opposite where the aerobridges are, and I'm inclined to think the other one was an Ilyushin 18. Could not be sure about the second one as it was parked near the FX MD11 which obscured it. It definitely had the Il-18 nose and four props. Anyone got any ideas what these interesting fellows are doing in namma BLR?
Another comment that was telling, was that EY scotched all Kingfisher talk calling it 'rumours' - was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3076 posts, RR: 9 Reply 155, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5168 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 153): The 9W-EY deal is stuck because Etihad wants gurantees of its investments - fair enough - but reading between the lines I'm wondering whether they're trying to put the squeeze on NG?
As rumors go, I've heard many different rumors implicating 9W mgmt - including
* 9W refusing to let go of any mgmt control/ decision making process/ accountability for the funds infused.
* 9W not willing to hub their North American flights at AUH (instead of BRU)
* Issues around wet leasing the 9W 77Ws and deploying them on AUH-GRU - 9W wants to send these to TK instead of EY.
While EY would certainly like guarantees for their investment - however I'm not sure what exactly that means? If it's a nod from the minister - he's nodding away. If it's a new law that "protects" foreign investment - I don't see that happening (esp. given the policy paralysis in the UPA2). So what is the exact ask here? And if there's a new law needed, does this mean this deal is as good as dead?
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 156, posted (3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5171 times:
An AI A320 driver with over 2000 hours (something I verified) who recently moved to the 787 has made a rap video dissing management and the 'aunties'. If you haven't seen it as yet, you must! I made a thread on it Air India Pilot Makes Rap Vide - Gets Into Trouble (by Cricket Feb 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)
Quote: AirAsia, a leading low cost carrier based in Malaysia, is gearing up to start an airline in India in association with Tata group and Arun Bhatia of Telestra Tradeplace Ltd.
It has sought approval from Indian Foreign Investment Promotion Board (IFIPB) to invest 49% into the proposed joint venture. The new airline plans to start operations from Chennai.
The airline's investment arm AirAsia Investment Ltd has applied for permission to invest, said a press release on Wednesday.
Tatas tried earlier too in the 1990s, to take over and privatise Air India in partnership with Singapore Airlines. The aviation ministry scuttled that proposal. Hopefully this time better sense will prevail and they will be allowed to go ahead with Air Asia.
BLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 194 posts, RR: 14 Reply 161, posted (2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 160): Hopefully this time better sense will prevail and they will be allowed to go ahead with Air Asia.
I have written a contrary opinion piece. Forum rules prevent me from posting the link but a small snippet
----
While the FDI by foreign airlines in India airlines policy is not explicit, so as to avoid any problems before the Competition Commission of India (CCI), the policy is framed to help the weak balance sheets of existing India airlines, and more importantly the banks, many of them government owned, who have already loaned vast sums of money to this sector.
When the cabinet approved the policy on September 14, 2012, the press statement said
Quote: "......there has been a need to consider financing options available for private airlines in the country, for their operations and service upgradation, and to enable them to compete with other global carriers. Denial of access to foreign capital could result in the collapse of many of our domestic airlines, creating a systemic risk for financial institutions, and a vital gap in the country’s infrastructure"
If foreign airlines are allowed to set-up new greenfield airlines, they need not risk investing in the existing airlines. They can start fresh, with no liabilities, benefit from not making or suffering past mistakes of operations or policy, bring in expertise and massive financial strength, and blow away the fledgling domestic sector.
We have already seen this happen in the international sector, where the government required Indian carriers to operate for five years before they could fly international, while allowing even newly formed foreign carriers to operate to India.
In my humble opinion, allow foreign carriers to set-up greenfield airlines, but after a period of time, may be three years, for now, get them to invest in Jet, IndiGo, SpiceJet, GoAir, and if the government ever comes to a logical sensibility, Air India.
I am advocating the same approach as of Mr. Ratan Tata, a leading member of the "Bombay Club" which over 20 years ago, proposed a similar go slow approach on liberalisation.
golfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 556 posts, RR: 2 Reply 163, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4450 times:
The macro economic conditions have dramatically changed since the last time Tata's considered investing in this industry. In today's times this is a sure shot recipe for putting a big dent in their balance sheet. They would be ill advised to enter now. The domestic market has a well entrenched LCC in Indigo and there is very little room for a second, without seeing a repeat of the price wars of the last 5 years. SG might restructure soon and is in talks with TR http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...alliances/articleshow/18635731.cms
The next couple of years are going to be fluid and there might be soon a shakeout.
I would like to disagree. This basically means that every new player has to be punished just because others before them suffered? This is like saying every new person wishing to do business now in today's liberalized environment should pay a sufferance fee to the companies that operated during the License Raj.
That is the nature of the beast. The early adopters assume more risk and the followers less. There are advantages and disadvantages for both. While the early entrants had vague or flawed policies to deal with, they also have cornered prime slots, parking space etc.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 165, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4355 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 161): In my humble opinion, allow foreign carriers to set-up greenfield airlines, but after a period of time, may be three years, for now, get them to invest in Jet, IndiGo, SpiceJet, GoAir, and if the government ever comes to a logical sensibility, Air India.I am advocating the same approach as of Mr. Ratan Tata, a leading member of the "Bombay Club" which over 20 years ago, proposed a similar go slow approach on liberalisation.
In 1996, when the privatisation of AI was being mulled. 4 Major Indian industrial houses were part of the bidding teams Tatas, Lakshmi Mittal, Hindujas and Modis. It was NG who scuttled the whole process, hats off to him for that, but he has been more of a victim of his own policies than a benefactor.
Nandan Nilekeni in his book ''Imagining India'' termed this attitude as GATEKEEPERs. This is what you are promoting further after 20yrs of Aviation liberalisation. Rahul Bajaj and the Tatas have benefited the most from the liberalisation of the automobile industry.
India needs a robust aviation policy. You don't have to go far to see the role of aviation in economic development. DXB, SIN are standing examples. AirAsia is to Asia what RyanAir is to the EU. Had the British govt denied RyanAir unfettered access to the UK just because a fledgeling EASYJET had started ops or the charters were reeling under debt. You wouldn't have seen the massive growth in aviation sector across the UK. RyanAir has invested more in UK as compared to Ireland. And it continues to contribute more to the British economy.
Its this very GATEKEEPER mentality which allows the 5yr/20 ac rule to survive. Ofcourse you don't expect AirAsia-Tata to fly BOM-DXB on their inaugural flt but they will definately wish to fly BOM-DEL.
Aviation is capital intensive. And capital will chase the markets and this is where Mubadala, AbuDhabi investment fund are looking at India salvatingly . India is one of the biggest markets in the world, second only to china in Asia. This market needs catalysts for growth.
Quoting Cricket (Reply 153): Another comment that was telling, was that EY scotched all Kingfisher talk calling it 'rumours' - was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.
My Money is on Kingfisher rather than 9W. The AbuDhabi sheikhs are an extremely shrewd set of brothers. The delays are more to do with historical differences between India and AbuDhabi, the current ruler and some of his brothers were hounded out of India during the Morarji Govt for hunting Bustards in the Rann. They sheikhs continue to do this on the other side of the border, in pakistan. EK and DXB has benefitted much from this differences. Both India and AbuDhabi are aware they have more to gain from co-operating than confronting.
Investing and reviving the KF brand will be a huge game changer on the EU-INDIA and the EU-Kangroo routes. The 9W brand will not make the same diff. James Hogan who is an Aussie with stints in BMI and Gulf is well aware.
As a brand, i rate KF and then AI among the best in India. Jet by way of the name itself sounds too industrial.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 166, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4238 times:
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 167, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4207 times:
Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 165): As a brand, i rate KF and then AI among the best in India. Jet by way of the name itself sounds too industrial.
Are you serious? You're saying that a brand like IT, which is dead in the water, is better than a live brand like 9W which was always better than IT even when IT was still flying....?
Basically, what I said the India AirAsia deal is contravened to the stated goals of the policy of allowing foreign airlines to invest. Please see the press release quoted.
A liberalised environment is good no doubt. However, neither you nor GolfRadio are paying taxes in India. I am. It will be my money that will be used to bail out the banks when existing airlines find it difficult to pay. Aviation is the same toxic debt to India as the housing industry was to the US and Europe in 2009. No one in India wants the type of systemic shock experienced by the western financial institutions from which you all are still suffering, almost years late. Which is why I suggested change be introduced gradually.
Talking about liberalisation .......
Why don't the western economies practice the same liberalisation in employment as they seek in products and services? How many citizens in Europe or North America are ready to compete for their jobs against 2 billion Indians and Chinese?
Quoting Cricket (Reply 153): was that a great work of market moving journalism? If yes, SEBI ought to investigate.
Dada, what-a-joke. You want the SEBI investigation to go into Rajiv Gandhi Bhawan?
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 169, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 168):
Why don't the western economies practice the same liberalisation in employment as they seek in products and services? How many citizens in Europe or North America are ready to compete for their jobs against 2 billion Indians and Chinese?
This is tangential to the topic,but the same argument could be made by other S Asian nations (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) against India. It is a slippery slope. Especially given that citizens in N America and Europe are already competing for jobs vis-a-viz India and China -- that is the entire crux of the offshoring and outsourcing debate.
tayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 172, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3929 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 168): It will be my money that will be used to bail out the banks when existing airlines find it difficult to pay.
Another GATEKEEPER statement, probably i've more of my money in the said Indian Banks than the taxes paid by some till date. The boom of last 10yrs in the Indian economy was on the back of this very western Financial QE that you try to deride. India has tremendous latent potential, and that is where it has stayed, LATENT for the last 65yrs. The potential will be unleashed only when we unshackle ourselves of old crony capitalism.
Personally i am not a great fan of VJM. He alongwith NG are responsible for the current woes of Indian aviation. As i read recently Raghuram Rajan and Luigi Zingales write in Saving Capitalism from the Capitalists: “Throughout its history, the free market system has been held back, not so much by its own economic deficiencies as Marxists would have it, but because of its reliance on political goodwill for its infrastructure. The threat primarily comes from…incumbents, those who already have an established position in the marketplace…The identity of the most dangerous incumbents depends on the country and the time period, but the part has been played at various times by the landed aristocracy, the owners and managers of large corporations, their financiers, and organised labour.”
Aviation is as much about brands than mere transportation. Especially when it comes to Intl and Biz class travel. Towards this end i will say hats off to the man (VJM) for creating this brand. Had it not been for the 5yr rule he would have probably made it with his orders. The forced purchase of DN and dispute with IAE led to his downfall.
I am not for unfettered access to Indian markets but then India does need to attract capital. Additionally in the case of AirAsia's Fernandez, he is a person of Indian origin, this has been the accepted norm for FDI for long.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 173, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3816 times:
I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...
freqflyer From India, joined Apr 2006, 70 posts, RR: 0 Reply 174, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 173): I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...
Any ideas?
I have felt the same way for long, but put it down to the postings on airliners-india.net forum. A lot of the contribution that is made there could have perhaps found its way here.
I believe a lot of a.netters have become weary of the cloud of uncertainty that surrounds Indian aviation developments in all the right ways so much that discussion sometimes becomes an unrewarding affair.....
Just my opinion though.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
vin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 176, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3757 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 173): I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...
Any ideas?
Etihad+Jet -- it's a negotiation -- the Indian media rushed to announce it as a done deal before it really was.
Air Costa and the like -- p*ssing money down the drain -- Tier II/III strategy would work potentially, but with props, not with large RJs, which have the worst seat-mile economics in Indian market -- b/c of govt policies Q400/ATR are actually competitive on CASM basis with mainline jets (737 to A320) up to 350-600 mile flights (ATR on lower end, Q400 on higher end) before per hour costs start to catch up due to lower speeds
KF Saga - Death by thousand cuts? Unless somebody in SBI decides to bail em out and kick can down the road b/c KF debt is toxic asset
AirAsia + Tata - Still can't figure out how they'll be serving Tier II-III cities out of MAA when most of the aforementioned cities don't have runways capable of handling A320s -- best option for these folks if they want to be profitable is to buy SpiceJet outright from Marans -- then they can add the Q400s that SG desparately needs and continue the profitable int'l expansion out of DEL and on underserved Gulf routes, maybe even take on AIX with lower cost base on trunk Gulf routes pending traffic rights.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3076 posts, RR: 9 Reply 177, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3793 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 173): I am intrigued and puzzled by how slow (as in less activity) these Indian Aviation threads have become. Until not that long ago this was one of the more buzzing recurring threads on a.net. What has changed? Have the regular posters got bored, got new jobs, or something else? Especially since there is so much going on right now in India aviation (KF's continuing saga, Etihad + Jet, Air Asia + Tata, unknown new airlines like Air Costa coming up, etc etc)...
A lot of discussion still takes place on the airliners-india forums. Besides, while there's some activity in the market, there's also a lot of pessimism in the market - IT has gone down, 9W is floundering like nobody's business (sometimes *A, sometimes EY, hub in BRU/ MUC/ timbuktu), AI limps along without anything remotely interesting or new. Contrast that to the past few years where there was a lot of optimism in the Indian aviation markets.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 178, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3771 times:
Vin2, your post is exactly the kind of post I, and suspect many others, have been missing on this thread!
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176): Etihad+Jet -- it's a negotiation -- the Indian media rushed to announce it as a done deal before it really was.
Yes, trust the Indian media to jump the gun always. And to carry planted stories such as the one earlier about EY and KF being close to a deal!
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176): Air Costa and the like -- p*ssing money down the drain -- Tier II/III strategy would work potentially, but with props, not with large RJs, which have the worst seat-mile economics in Indian market -- b/c of govt policies Q400/ATR are actually competitive on CASM basis with mainline jets (737 to A320) up to 350-600 mile flights (ATR on lower end, Q400 on higher end) before per hour costs start to catch up due to lower speeds
Agree completely. And besides the strategy and aircraft choice being weak, what about the name, branding, and positioning? Have you seen their marketing? It has the owner / chariman's unsmiling face as the main image!
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176): KF Saga - Death by thousand cuts? Unless somebody in SBI decides to bail em out and kick can down the road b/c KF debt is toxic asset
Agree, can't wait for them to disappear. It appears now that the GOI has taken away their int'l rights and domestic slots...
Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 176): AirAsia + Tata - Still can't figure out how they'll be serving Tier II-III cities out of MAA when most of the aforementioned cities don't have runways capable of handling A320s -- best option for these folks if they want to be profitable is to buy SpiceJet outright from Marans -- then they can add the Q400s that SG desparately needs and continue the profitable int'l expansion out of DEL and on underserved Gulf routes, maybe even take on AIX with lower cost base on trunk Gulf routes pending traffic rights.
I think the media got that wrong or misunderstood it, or perhaps it is just political posturing. While Chennai will be the base, what I understand is that they will definitely go after the major Tier 1 and 2 routes like other LCCs in India.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 179, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
They might as well wind up Kingfisher now, all domestic slots and international rights they had have been withdrawn, a statement by MoCA Ajit Singh has said http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=92482
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 180, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3425 times:
Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 181, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3381 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 180): Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.
Good news for Air India, but why is my tax money being used for this?
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 182, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3355 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 179): They might as well wind up Kingfisher now, all domestic slots and international rights they had have been withdrawn, a statement by MoCA Ajit Singh has said
Quoting comorin (Reply 180): Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered
It's so amazing that Kingfisher has been dead for several months now and VM unable to do anything about it, not paying his staff, etc. and yet there were people on this forum who nurtured hopes of seeing them come back from the dead......
On the other hand AI is alive and operating (although not measuring up to the standards of a.nutters ) and yet so many on this forum are hoping for them to wind up......
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 184, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3325 times:
Don't know if it has already mentioned but accoridng to a Dutch website 9W sold its LHR slots to EY and leased them back. As a result 9W will get USD70mio. Looks like 9W and EY are getting closer to eachother...
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 185, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3281 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 171):
Tarun Shukla at the Mint has compiled an interesting infographic about IT's aircraft littered across the country and some across the world.
Very interesting. Any update on the fate of the aircraft? If will impact *all* Indian airlines leasing/finance costs if those aircraft cannot be reposed quickly.
Quoting comorin (Reply 180): Feb 28th: Air India gets allocated Rs 5,000 Crore ($1 billion) as an equity infusion in the Union 2013-14 Budget. Any hopes or prayers for AI's early demise shattered, but good news for long-suffering AI staff.
Wow... that is some serious cash. Does anyone have a record of the 'equity infusions' into AI over the years? At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.
Quoting LJ (Reply 184): Looks like 9W and EY are getting closer to eachother...
It would be an interesting twist if 9W went to Skyteam instead of fighting the GOI. The first Indian airline into an alliance should see a nice boost in revenue. Not that it happened in time for IT (nor did they have their service and costs in line to benefit from such a revenue boost).
aeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 186, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3242 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 185): Wow... that is some serious cash. Does anyone have a record of the 'equity infusions' into AI over the years? At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.
Before 2008, AI/IC combined had directly received less than $100 million from the government. However, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI, and that AI had very limited competition for a long time essentially meant that the government didn't need to give subsidies.
Over the last few years, with economy crashing, fuel spiking, and market being liberalized, AI has taken almost $500 million, with another chunk of money earmarked for the current restructuring process. After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186): Over the last few years, with economy crashing, fuel spiking, and market being liberalized, AI has taken almost $500 million, with another chunk of money earmarked for the current restructuring process. After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.
I hope this ius the last time taxpayer funds are being used. That said, if Ai is our national carrier it should not be treated as a 'step sister'; although ever since PP left the ministry things seem to be better for AI
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 188, posted (2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 184): At some point AI needs to know the subsidies will end or... they will have to continue.
AI will stop getting cash infusions and subsidies from the GOI the day that they caese to be a public sector company....till then, they will continue, as the govt owns the airline.....
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186): However, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI,
Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....
Quoting Cricket (Reply 187): Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 183):New name for 9W Jetihad
Nice One!
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188): Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....
On all gov't and PSU funded trips, AI must be used if the schedule is feasible.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
rahulrahul From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 190, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2878 times:
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 191, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2858 times:
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 161): We have already seen this happen in the international sector, where the government required Indian carriers to operate for five years before they could fly international, while allowing even newly formed foreign carriers to operate to India.
That is in the bilateral. If India halts a foreign airline that has its nations approval to fly then the other nation could halt the air service agreement and other parts of the bilateral. In other words, a trade war. India may put its own rules on home airlines, but not on foreign airlines that keep to the air service agreement portion of the bilateral.
This is like airport slots. Almost all bilaterals require the same service points (airports) to be an option. If India were to build a new Mumbai airport and force all foreign carriers to use that airport, the other nations would use the automatic trigger to force all of the Indian airlines to use the new airport. Rights are reciprocal.
I think India's restrictions on their airlines flying international was silly, but that has zero application to the competition. There is no reciprocal right to impose such a restriction on other airlines and no nation would give that right away.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186): owever, the fact that government employees are required to fly on AI, and that AI had very limited competition for a long time essentially meant that the government didn't need to give subsidies.
Interesting... but legal. I don't agree, but that and 2 bucks gets a coffee at Starbucks... If the GOI wants to mandate government business is on AI, that is their right and isn't, as you note, technically a subsidy.
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 186): After that, the government hopes to privatize, which would end all subsidies.
I've heard no serious steps to privatization for AI. I would like it to happen, but I really doubt it will be in the next twenty years.
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188): AI will stop getting cash infusions and subsidies from the GOI the day that they caese to be a public sector company....till then, they will continue, as the govt owns the airline.....
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 192, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2825 times:
So we heard (there was a thread on here about that) of the Turkish and Indian governments allowing Turkish to increase services to BOM and DEL to 2x daily, but any word if Turkish is being allowed to open up other Indian destinations?
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 193, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
And, surprise, surprise - 9W asks for Kingfisher's slots. Naresh Goyal who was once publicly humiliated by VJM will like to turn the knife in - however, I'm not sure that 9W will get all the slots - pretty sure that IndiGo and Spicejet will want them too. And what will 9W do with the LHR slots - sell them onto EY? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...her-slots/articleshow/18780561.cms
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 194, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2603 times:
Quoting Cricket (Reply 193): And what will 9W do with the LHR slots - sell them onto EY?
This whole LHR slot-selling thing... at least in the case of UK-India, aren't the slots, right, and assignments governed by bilaterals / regulatory body decisions? Shouldn't the DGCA "own" the slots that are made available to Indian carriers?
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 4 Reply 195, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2565 times:
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 189): Quoting gr8circle (Reply 188): Is that true? I've known a lot of govt employees who swear by 9W and nothing else....they carefully avoid flying on AI....
On all gov't and PSU funded trips, AI must be used if the schedule is feasible.
Ok, this must be a relatively recent directive......8 odd years back when I was still in India, I know for sure that state government employees in Maharashtra were free to choose their carrier of choice while traveling domestic or international.....
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4671 posts, RR: 17 Reply 196, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2523 times:
Central Government employees are to travel by Air India to foreign destinations unless there are operational reasons, which require approval from the CivAv ministry. For domestic travel, they are free to travel on any carrier that offers a cheaper price than AI. Given that AI has discounted fares for the GOI, that may be a hurdle to cross.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2936 posts, RR: 7 Reply 197, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Such fun, first Naresh Goyal wants KFA's slots in BOM and now he has taken over two ATR's previously operated by KFA - anyone know the registrations on these birds - new and old? http://bit.ly/ZjONbm
Quote: The finance ministry on Wednesday cleared the investment proposal of Malaysian budget carrier AirAsia which seeks to enter India through a joint venture with Tata Group and another company.
"AirAsia's proposal has been cleared. It is as per the policy (which allows) up to 49 per cent FDI. Rs 80 crore is initial investment," a senior government official said.
The Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB), headed by DEA secretary Arvind Mayaram, approved the proposal at its meeting here.
This would be the first entry of a foreign carrier in the domestic sector.
vtnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0 Reply 200, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2077 times:
Since this thread started in December and now should be ending in March, how about naming the next set of threads by the month and year that they start in and start one on the frist of each month? Would any anet posting policy be violated? The threads would average less than 100 posts and would be easier to search based on the time. Of course LAXDESI has the final say..
[Edited 2013-03-06 07:09:12]
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
aviationbuff From India, joined Mar 2008, 1424 posts, RR: 3 Reply 201, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2061 times:
Quoting vtnyc (Reply 200): Would any anet posting policy be violated
As per the anet guidelines the thread should have around 200 posts before giving way to a new thread.
Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 202, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
Quoting vtnyc (Reply 200): Of course LAXDESI has the final say..
I am fine with anything that will sustain the thread. Hope to contribute in future when things are less busy for me.
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 203, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1941 times:
Quoting aviationbuff (Reply 201): Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.
fortunerunnner From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 204, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1757 times:
Quoting aviationbuff (Reply 201): Your suggestion is valid. Instead of months how about using quarter e.g. 2013-Q1, 2013-Q2. In case there are 2 threads in a quarter then it can be 2013-Q2 Part 2.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 206, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1493 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 198): Looks like 9W is getting the KF ATRs cheap.....Nice move.
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My numbers were a bit less, I'll have to go sharpen my pencil. Note: I'm talking a figure of say $90 million and not claiming there is not a significant cost difference. 
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an a.nutter's dream!
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You want the SEBI investigation to go into Rajiv Gandhi Bhawan? 
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