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Air Canada Official Launches LCC, Rouge  
User currently offlinelostsound From Canada, joined May 2012, 228 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22951 times:

Quote:
Introducing Air Canada’s new leisure airline with stylishly affordable service to holiday spots in Europe and the Caribbean. Benefit from Air Canada’s extensive network for smooth connections to flights departing daily from Toronto and Montreal. Service begins July 1, 2013. It’s time to go more. Where will your next holiday take you?
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/rouge.html

The website has all the information on routes, etc...
Livery is nothing special, but it's pretty eye drawing Imo.

I'm Curious to see how the cabin will be outfitted.

[Edited 2012-12-18 08:28:00]


"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
146 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22907 times:

Yeah um , Why do they think its a good idea to do this ?

User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22866 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 1):
Why do they think its a good idea to do this ?

It is a trend nowadays.


User currently offlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1383 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22846 times:
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Wow, sounds just like Air Transat to me - then again as this is most likely their intentions.

Any word on what the cabins are going to look like? Will be curious if they can beat the new TS cabin product wise.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4897 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22755 times:

That's a pretty smart looking livery and YYZ-EDI is a godsend for me. Whether this is great idea however... I'm not so sure.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17550 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22618 times:

I was thinking it should be called Drapeau Rouge (Red Flag)--I wasn't far off! At least they have the same person running it that came up with its predecessor Tango; but I'm sure it's *totally* different this time!

" In 2001, while working as an independent consultant, Ben led the team that launched Tango, Air Canada's pioneering strategy in a separately branded operation and in 2002 he joined Air Canada full time as Managing Director of Tango."

What could go wrong.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22607 times:

Ok, while I am by no means an expert in LCCs, I do see some things here that make me question the viability of this venture. It seems that this "Rogue" is not at all separate from Air Canada itself and thus not really a true LCC. There are items such as:

-Booking on the AC website with AC flight numbers (operated by Rogue)
-Ability to connect to/from other AC flights in YYZ/YUL
-Ability to accrue miles
-AC Lounge access under certain conditions
-Complimentary meals on flights to Europe
-And so on...

So basically, I don't understand how this is really an LCC and I don't see how this model is different from the failed LCC spinoffs such as Song and TED. (Yes, I understand that the actual flights will be operated by a separate group with different wages, etc., but that in itself does not guarantee a successful airline.) I am also guessing that the managament/opearations/strategy/planning/etc. will also be done by AC and not by Rogue? If this is the case, then how is this venture going to succeed?

Again, like I said, I'm not at all an expert in this field and I'm just stating some of my observations. So if I'm wrong in any of this, I'd love to understand how.

Thanks...


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6330 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22521 times:

Quoting yowza (Reply 4):
That's a pretty smart looking livery and YYZ-EDI is a godsend for me. Whether this is great idea however... I'm not so sure.

It definitely makes sense to me...in the summer.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22481 times:

The livery is like the Air Canada of old.
What about DUB? Was that not expected to be included?

Wonder why they went for EDI over GLA? YYZ has never managed more than once weekly with Worldways then Air Transat, indeed it was recently dropped. Good news though.


User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22480 times:
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the livery looks gorgeous!  
I'd expect more leisure destinations to Europe tho, like BCN, FCO, MXP, NCE  


User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22279 times:

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 6):

-Booking on the AC website with AC flight numbers (operated by Rogue)
-Ability to connect to/from other AC flights in YYZ/YUL
-Ability to accrue miles
-AC Lounge access under certain conditions
-Complimentary meals on flights to Europe
-And so on...

While some of these are definitely not your typical LCC style, I have a feeling that the new LCC is mainly geared at lowering staffing costs and flying higher density aircraft. Using AC's existing site makes sense, and meals to Europe are needed unless they want to reduce service below TS / WG. The other factors allow them to offer three tiers of fares, and I'm sure that the extra revenue from Lattitude will more than offset the extra costs if they can sell the higher priced tickets.

That said, I'm not too sure how I feel about 29" pitch on the A319s! I avoided 5G flights for that reason, and with WS and TS offering more legroom (and better service in TS's case)... Even WG offers complimentary food (and wine!) on their Caribbean flights, so I guess it all comes down to price.



Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlinenorthstardc4m From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3035 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22244 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
Wonder why they went for EDI over GLA? YYZ has never managed more than once weekly with Worldways then Air Transat, indeed it was recently dropped. Good news though.

I would guess they are offering it in conjunction with a group tour or something.

I'll hold my breath on the livery till i see it in person, looks good though.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinempsrent From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22232 times:

I was hoping for YYZ to MAN as such a large, central and popular British destination for Canadians could use more flight options. In any case I can understand why they selected EDI to avoid strong competition with TS while DUB and GLA are well serviced by TS.

User currently offlinespqr From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22200 times:

gah what a horrible name, works OK in French I guess, but in English who would want to fly an airline named after make-up?

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12482 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22191 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
The livery is like the Air Canada of old.
What about DUB? Was that not expected to be included?

I was wondering that myself; still, probably a good thing, because it means that mainline AC is staying on the DUB route. I have a horrible feeling that they might go 8 abreast on these 767s and that's not a comfortable prospect for anyone, complimentary meals or not.


User currently offlinesaloman From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22103 times:

Another question is how they will treat Star Gold pax from other airlines. They only mention AC top tier on that webpage getting lounge access, so it'll be interesting to see how harmonized it actually will be with mainline. that would certainly be an easy way to curb costs, but I'm unclear as to what their obligations would actually be vis-a-vis ACs Star membership.

User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 22051 times:

Quoting spqr (Reply 13):
gah what a horrible name, works OK in French I guess, but in English who would want to fly an airline named after make-up?

All AC needs to do is buy the rights to this gem of a commercial from the 1990s and voila!



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2958 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21979 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 14):
I have a horrible feeling that they might go 8 abreast on these 767s and that's not a comfortable prospect for anyone, complimentary meals or not.

Seat map shows 2-3-2, whilst the Executive rows 1-3 are marked as "Cabin details coming soon."

http://www.aircanada.com/shared/en/c.../fleet/pop_fleetb767-300rouge.html

Rgds

[Edited 2012-12-18 09:54:20]


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinenorthstardc4m From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3035 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21776 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting kaitak (Reply 14):
I have a horrible feeling that they might go 8 abreast on these 767s and that's not a comfortable prospect for anyone, complimentary meals or not.

I don't think they can with the current exit configuration, they would need to have the A-A-I-A 4 door config to support that seating density.

AC are in the A-III-III-A 2 overwing hatch config:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nino Buda
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel MacFarlane

CP Had some leased 763s in the A-A-I-A config, but i believe they were all returned to lessors after the merger (they were all -3Y0s), and i can't find anyone operating 2-4-2 with anything but 4 doors.

[Edited 2012-12-18 10:10:56]


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21738 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 1):
Yeah um , Why do they think its a good idea to do this ?

You're not a real airline until you've made a "low cost" spin off and folded it after a couple years   

Not saying it WILL fail, but the track record hasn't been good for the other airlines. It's hard for an airline to lower its costs even in a different entity, IIRC, Song still had higher costs as a spin off than B6 or WN.

Good luck to them. If anything, I hope they learn something from it if they fail at it. Song was considered a failure by many, but if you look at DL today, they are basically half-Song half-Delta... they incorporated a lot from Song even if the brand disappeared

Edit: I live the livery except the "rouge" on it looks pretty tacky

[Edited 2012-12-18 10:09:13]


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21728 times:

So is DUB staying with Air Canda mainline?

User currently offlinepolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21664 times:

Good name...good look...should stand out in the skies and at airports. Wonder if the call sign will be aircanada or rouge or aircanada rouge.

The rouge/red of the leisure division contrasts nicely with the silver sky colour of the mainline...red - fun; blue - business.

Venice, Edinburgh - not expected as first destinations but this is the leisure division, after all. Athens, not surprised. This is also a cruise destination so fits in perfectly with Air Canada Vacations.


User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21615 times:

Stupid idea to start up this company but kudos on the scheme I think it is a lot nicer then the horrible toothpaste livery.

User currently offlinepolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21616 times:

Dublin stays with mainline. Year-round service is expected. Code-share with Aer Lingus is coming as announced in media release earlier this year.

[Edited 2012-12-18 10:29:07]

User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2365 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 21518 times:

I wish AC would use this for their regular color scheme.. Substitute the Red for the blue that they currently use, that would be one good looking plane..

Best of luck to this new airline, how many years will this one last?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
25 polaris : The first two 767s moving to rouge are C-GHPE fin no. 691 and C-GHPN fin no. 692.
26 voodoo : I hereby nickname the airline AC Rogue. Oh I see Crosswinds21 (Reply 6) has done so already. Whether intentionally or not, doesn't matter![Edited 2012
27 northstardc4m : Both ex-Hawaiian and recent additions to AC...
28 bobloblaw : Id like to see Rouge, junked and AC adopt the entire scheme though. Why are these markets important to AC? AC is a business airline, why are they tryi
29 Post contains images aamd11 :
30 Kcrwflyer : This has not worked out for any airline yet, and failed twice for AC. What is different about this? How do you offer lower fares if your costs are the
31 by738 : I suspect we'll be revisiting this thread in 2 years time in a Jazz/ Tango style.... rolls eyes, with marginal routes dropped quickly
32 lostsound : Air Canada's though process: "Hey you know what we haven't done in a while?...."[Edited 2012-12-18 11:36:45]
33 Aquila3 : Love that livery! I hope they will soon fly MXP or VIE in the winter. I might get a round-trip the other way to see some great NHL game!
34 catII : Tango was never meant to be "low cost", as in overall lower operating costs. It was a different brand within a brand and was actually quite successful
35 Post contains images BE77 : I'll give you full credit, even if there was an assist from spell check See Crosswinds21 reply 6 for the English translation Yah, but do you need to
36 redzeppelin : We've certainly seen it play out poorly in North America, with the likes of Tango, Ted and Song. But what about elsewhere? Is Germanwings working out
37 Post contains links tayser : Jetstar brand flights: - Can be booked through QF mainline site (go to qantas.com.au and look at MEL-ADL or MEL-SYD options - you'll see the myriad o
38 Viscount724 : The name is "Rouge" ("red" in French), not "Rogue". Most English-speaking Canadians have studied enough French to know that "rouge" means "red", a co
39 yyz717 : Sharp livery. Agree. Horrible name. Awkward in English. Translates into AC "Lipstick" which is non-sensical. It WILL be called AC Rogue when the renow
40 luv2fly : The only area that I ever see this concept work is the South Pacific / Asia! And why you ask, as they run those as totally separate from the parent co
41 Giancavia : Red will certainly be more fitting then Black when it comes to doing the books.
42 BeyondBristol : I maybe missing the obvious here but I can't see anything that says this is a LCC. Throughout the site they refer to it as a "leisure airline". I don'
43 Post contains links GCT64 : EDI-YYZ is good news for those of us who have a team based in Edinburgh (I do, so am always interested in new options for them) or visiting Edinburgh.
44 Post contains images yyz717 : Good one! You're missing nothing. There is nothing LCC about this. AC is the highest cost carrier in North America (and the only remaining NA carrier
45 9252fly : I think the intent was to operate the division with lower costs, which based on recent agreements with pilots and flights attendants, should result i
46 Post contains links canadiantree : I'm not a fan of the livery, it looks very much like the Air Berlin livery which I think is boring. I'm already mad that Niki changed their livery to
47 IndianicWorld : Someone at AC has a fascination with coming up with new names to add to the list. Jazz, Tango, Jetz and now Rouge... Interesting. Livery looks good th
48 jpyvr : Could you please specify exactly what government support AC receives (other than what other Canadian airlines might receive). Historically, AC was a
49 yyz717 : Glad to. Here's a couple: 1. The Federal Government intervened recently when AC unions were going to strike, preventing such a strike through legisla
50 Post contains images LhrRampRats : Not a fan of the livery. A quick glimpse at an airport and your first thought would be Qantas not to mention Air Berlin or TAM with regards to the bac
51 skipness1E : There are markets where Air Canada used to have a presence in which it can no longers serve to it's comparably higher cost base. It lost the UK to Zoo
52 Skywatcher : The Canadian air transport market is unique in the world. The exclusivly "leisure" carriers (Sunwing and Air Transat) go head to head with the "tradit
53 Post contains images JHCRJ700 : Wasn't there an airline called "Zoom" a few years back that tried something like this?
54 Viscount724 : You're overlooking that many of those markets, for example at least 30 countries in Europe, now have Open Skies bilaterals that permit any carrier to
55 DeltaMD90 : LOL I didn't realize that... is there at least a substantial difference in Rogue or are they trying the same ol crap again?
56 CaptCufflinks : When I first clicked the link I thought to myself, will they operate DUB? Maybe even BFS like TS do? Very surprised to see neither route. I don't thi
57 9252fly : For those disappointed with the limited European network, it should noted that it appears that it's just a start as there will only be 2 B763's initia
58 YYZYYT : evening news was reporting a 30 inch seat pitch... If true, ouch.
59 Post contains links and images YVRLTN : Will future expansion plans include YVR or is this a YYZ / YUL outfit only? They say they are a leisure airline, so I guess there is a lot more touris
60 cyeg66 : This is all unsurprisingly boring news from an airline with an even more underwhelming sense of originality. Be sure to thank the Feds when this ventu
61 ElPistolero : The Feds? What do they have to do with this?
62 airlinebuilder : The livery is somewhat striking though it gives out an impression of air berlin on first look but the appreciation rises and it calls ones attention e
63 SEA : I really like the tail treatment, though the rest is pretty bland. I wish AC the best, but I can't help but think this will be a distant memory in a d
64 panam330 : What a waste of money. I dig the tail on the livery, though. It'd look excellent on the existing AC fleet.
65 CuriousFlyer : I like the livery This will be an all-coach service?? Flights Yul-Ath for $949, LGA-ATH $2270!
66 abrelosojos : Can someone please tell me how the fares they have given as introductory are revolutionary? While they may be able to make money off this idea, increa
67 nighthawk : Air Canada never served EDI, they did however serve GLA. I was wondering that too. I guess it depends on who the flights will be marketed to. Glasgow
68 MH017 : Is this AC's way to push TS off the (mainly) Transatlantic market ?
69 skipness1E : Actually AC had a base at Prestwick long before they moved to Glasgow in May 1990. The long haul product on the TriStars was virtually all economy, in
70 ElPistolero : YYZ - EDI - $949 special introductory fare YUL - EDI - $1048 special introductory fare Very revolutionary if you ask me, because for those fares you
71 Post contains images brilondon : I hope that is the case. It is hard enough to go and visit my 88 year old grandmother in Swords. It means red. You can see an NHL game now, just go t
72 Fly2yyz : Hmm... anyone realize that air travel in Canada is terribly expensive...yes probably due to taxes as well....but why isn't AC offering any domestic ro
73 lostsound : I agree. Flying out of YYT is very expensive, even just to get to YHZ. I think Canada needs a 3rd full service airline (4th if you feel like includin
74 Post contains images aamd11 : I hope the winners of the "name our airline" competition get seats up at the front of the bus.
75 FlyingFan18 : The seat layout reminds me of the not so good flight I had to BCN on AA. I thought AC would be better than that. I wish them luck on it though.
76 nkops : 142 seats on the 319-100... very Spirit-esque..... just remove one of the aft lavs and add 3 more seats.
77 drgmobile : ]Stupid idea to start up this company but kudos on the scheme I think it is a lot nicer then the horrible toothpaste livery.[/quote] What specifically
78 Post contains images crosswinds21 : Ok, point taken. Although "Rogue" (i.e. a "renegade") would also not be the worst name for an LCC.
79 Post contains images airtrainer : That's what I was wondering. I just picked a random date and found fares to VCE way cheaper than the advertised launch fare
80 nighthawk : I think we have taken a whole 5 minutes to come up with the nickname that this venture will forever be remembered as... Air Canada Rogue.
81 Shuttle9juliet : I would think EDI over GLA as no competition to YYZ from there, well maybe apart from a Thomas Cook 757 in the summer, if it still operates? I think
82 Skywatcher : Air Transat just reported sharply above expected quarterly results (75 cents actual vs. 42 cents expected). They specifically reported that last summe
83 skipness1E : "Two of our 767s have gone rogue!"
84 longhauler : Last summer, Transat carried more Canadians across the Atlantic than Air Canada. (which also means more than anyone else!) That is what the leisure t
85 Viscount724 : I wouldn't say Tango and Zip failed. Tango was just a brand and was folded into the mainline airline and now exists as the two lowest fare categories
86 Shuttle9juliet : Hi Longhauler, I am sure we were speaking about this the other day ...Strange it came up today.Will AC use existing flight deck or are they recruitin
87 Fly2yyz : Can't the same be said about Canada/International carriers that flew to Canada and had either been driven out of business due to AC/bad business mode
88 Viscount724 : Yes but the post I was replying to was referring to new carriers operating domestic routes in Canada. Foreign carriers can't do that.
89 lostsound : Yes, they were all poor business models. In order to survive in Canada you need a good product, a frequent flyer program, competitive frequency, and
90 Aquila3 : Hate to argue with a Canadian about that, but, that is only partially true for the Spengler Cup, in Davos. But to keep this OT short, what ruins all
91 multimark : Corrected: somebody has a fascination with billing AC for coming up with all these lame names.
92 mpsrent : Thomas Cook was flying in partnership with Air Transat for Canadian Affair. When you booked with Air Transat, sometimes your flight was with their A3
93 ElPistolero : If that's the case, why don't they just install these 30" seats across their entire fleet? Why only on the LCC fleet if the passenger experience isn'
94 northstardc4m : You mean 9 abreast on the 310s and 332s, 3-3-3. The 333s have the much more "normal" 2-4-2 8 abreast, same as AC's 333s
95 ElPistolero : No alchohol, less IFE weight (going for the streaming online option by the sounds of it), so there are some savings, I suppose. Everything else will
96 by738 : I suspect so, but whether that relates to yields or profits....
97 chrisa330 : It's still better than what TS is selling flights to GLA (they don't service EDI). AC is selling rouge flights for $947 taxes inclusive, where TS is
98 Viscount724 : True but that's only 4 out of 23 aircraft. I doubt any passengers are aware of the difference when they book.
99 YYZYYT : I take your point, in theory... but are you suggesting that they are purchasing new, and slimmer seats for these 2 aircraft than the seats they use i
100 chrisa330 : I'll bet yes. "Air Canada-originating Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus A319 aircraft with stylish and modern cabin interiors featuring innovative new seat
101 ScottB : You couldn't tell from the pictures??? The last two were green and purple, but this one is red! That makes it different! Perhaps they can hire Sarah
102 Polot : Keep in mind TS really packs them in. Their A330s only have 4-7 less seats than AC's 773s, with their A310s having more seats than most of AC's 763s.
103 yellowtail : How come no one complains about SQ's attempt "Scoot"
104 brilondon : Zip could not compete with the aircraft they had. Fuel inefficient 737-217's from CP's fleet.
105 longhauler : Actually, Tango started the whole a la carte pricing that is now the norm for most North American and European carriers. Don't want to eat? Don't buy
106 Post contains links catII : They already to this anyway with the high density configured 763's, the two that are currently operating at mainline that will be transferred to roug
107 longhauler : As was Westjet ... the main competition at the time.
108 Viscount724 : WS didn't take delivery of their first 737NG until 2001, 5 years after they started service. Some of their startup fleet of 737-200s had as many as 8
109 brilondon : WS does not have the unionized workforce or the pensions that AC had to deal with at that time.
110 longhauler : No, and Westjet has blue airplanes and Zip was multicoloured. What's your point? Here's what you said: And we pointed out that in fact, WS was flying
111 RWA380 : With the exception of Jetstar what airline, within an airline, concept has ever worked?
112 Hawaiian763 : And the odd's of Air Canada Rouge being a huge success is as likely as the Toronto Blue Jays winning the world series next year... We've all seen what
113 gooner : This is not true.Thomas Cook originally provided flights for Canadian Affair.The parent company of Air Transat bought out Canadian Affair.Canadian Af
114 YYZYYT : Actually, your confusion is justified., if you do not know AC's fare structure. The Tango "unbundelled" fare model was introduced for doemstic and tr
115 yyz717 : No, you just need low costs primarily, and a slow but steady capacity expansion that the market can absorb. All the above carriers deviated from this
116 airontario : Very possible? I'd put my money on the Jays winning the World Series.
117 brilondon : OK so... Could happen, then so could the Tigers, the Yankees, Baltimore...Right now the Jays look good on paper but until see how the new parts fit t
118 mpsrent : I don't disagree gooner about how both airlines operated for Canadian Affair or how Transat bought out the tour operator. I will say that at the time
119 by738 : Why ?
120 Shuttle9juliet : Because we had mentioned about AC returning to GLA,EDI on another post, then the next day we got this thread!, so a bit strange when you have been di
121 robsaw : Zip was meant to compete with then almost entirely western Canada based Westjet using 737 aircraft acquired by AC as part of its takeover of Canadian
122 robsaw : Nice try but those are opinion rhetoric not factual statements of gov't support of AC. Many carriers, even in the US, have legacy international route
123 robsaw : It has something to do with why they couldn't compete but not everything.
124 Kaiarahi : Have you read any of the other posts in this thread? Tango was primarily a fare structure, and continues to exist (you could even see it for yourself
125 bergkampsticket : I'm hopeful this will be a success. I just booked a great priced return from EDI-LGA with them.
126 YVRLTN : Does anyone know / guess which terminal and gates they will use in YYZ? My family is looking at EDI-YYZ-YVR and I am wondering if immigration will be
127 Viscount724 : T1 at YYZ as for all other AC flights, and the standard connecting times. On flights to Canada involving domestic connections you always clear custom
128 aerecosse : Looking at the TS website it shows flights between YYZ & GLA are year round and daily between 1 May - 31 Oct added to that they also offer flight
129 YVRLTN : TS (Canadian Affair) are cheaper than Rouge / AC too, for a direct flight to YVR its a no brainer. The price war has begun I guess, hope both airlines
130 longhauler : Rouge is starting with two B767s, when they have 20 B767s which is planned, it will be a different story.
131 rikkus67 : I put in an official entry for "Voila!"... *sigh* The branding of "Rouge" is definitely going to be mocked, as is already happening in this thread. Th
132 yyz717 : Not initially. It was an LCC with a dedicated fleet, brand and colour scheme. Just like Rouge/Lipstick. Only after the Tango LCC concept failed, did
133 longhauler : I agree. The only way I can see it happening is if something like Jetstar occurs where the LCC starts taking over a lot of mainline flying as a prefe
134 yyz717 : But Tango was just a common name for 2 completely different concepts. The first Tango was a dedicated LCC within an airline, which definitely failed
135 Post contains images connies4ever : All valid points, Longhauler, underscoring that those actually IN the business know far more than some others. As well, as you have previously pointe
136 longhauler : No, the concepts were the same ... the a la carte pricing, made only possible with a powerful website. That concept was completely different from Air
137 yyz717 : The concepts were not the same. They were completely different. Tango #1 was a small, dedicated fleet of A320s and 732's with its own brand, schedule
138 longhauler : I think you are missing my point. With the invention of the Tango concept, came a passenger preference for that type of pricing and flying. The decis
139 Viscount724 : Assume you're referring to the initial Attaché product using 737s with only F and J seating. It wasn't a success to the best of my memory. It was un
140 stuYYZ : MASTER PLAN I thought this was all part of the master plan. Start a discount airline with no pension or legacy costs, shift over some assets, declare
141 Post contains links BOACCunard : Criticism of Rouge branding.
142 longhauler : I think that is what it was called. Using -200s and -300s? I had heard it was successful and was dropped when AC matched it with Executive Class, the
143 Viscount724 : That was even less successful (and shorter-lived) than Attaché. Regardless of the product it was hard to compete with AC's much higher frequency on
144 Post contains images yyz717 : Of CP's initial 3 733's delivered in early 1985, 2 were in the Attache colour scheme, and the 3rd in the usual orange CP livery which well suited the
145 Post contains links and images SpaceshipDC10 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Trevor OgleView LargeView MediumPhoto © Trevor Ogle
146 yyz717 : Thanks SpaceshipDC10. The CP colours look great on that 733. Attache not so much.
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