Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air Berlin Sells Frequent Flyer Program  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8759 times:

Loss making Air Berlin has sold 70% stake in its Topbonus frequent flyer program to Etihad for €184.4 million.

With the deal Topbonus would be spun off as a separate company with focus on selling points to credit card companies, hotels and retailers and extend outside the air-travel industry.
Per Etihad they intend to make Topbonus into a "global loyalty management platform".
Topbonus currently has 3.1mil members and will be merged with EYs own 1.8mil member program.

As part of the deal AB will get also get 150 million euros in debt financing arranged by Etihad and provided by HSBC and Commerzbank.

Lastly Air Berlin CEO say with the sale, the carrier would now record a profit for 2012 erasing previously estimated €145 million loss for the year.

Story:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ram-to-etihad-for-150-million.html

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2963 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8662 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Right so what do they bring to Oneworld now ?

Frequent flyer programme - Sold

Good feed and connections with other OW carriers in German markets or elsewhere within Europe- Not really.

Beyond Europe little bit with AA but not much else and anyway most of their long haul remains primarily leisure oriented, as does much of the European network.

Now even heavier indebted to Etihad so we know who will be pulling strings

Ever closer relationships and deeper codeshare arrangements with AF/KL than with any OW carrier.

Can they really remain in OW !


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8476 times:

Etihad must really see something in Air Berlin as they keep getting deeper and deeper financially tangled.

So far from what I can figure:

2011 - initial 3% stake in AB = €?
December 2011 - boost stake in AB to 29% = €72.9m
June 2012 - Provides AB loan = €162.9m
December 2012 - Buy 70% of Topbonus = €184.4m
December 2012 - Provide financing = €150m


An for AB, yes they tie their existence and future ever closer to the wishes of Etihad.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 1):
Frequent flyer programme - Sold

And? Airlines sometimes outsource their FF program. AA considered doing it a few years ago. Air Canada did it in 2002 - Aeroplan is not owned by AA.

It being sold doesn't mean it ceases to exist - an AB FF won't know the difference.



a.
User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

Another airline making the huge mistake of selling its FF Program (the only valuable asset most airlines have)... but it is AB, they just can't figure out how to make money. Selling Top Bonus just to record a profit in 2012 will not help them to become profitable in the years to come. What will they do once they ran out of assets? Germany does not have Chapter 11...

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):
. AA considered doing it a few years ago

And they realized what a huge mistake it would have been and did not proceed with the sale.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8387 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Per Etihad they intend to make Topbonus into a "global loyalty management platform".

They could start by giving it a less ridiculous name... and look for it anywhere but in Germany, where the biggest loyalty programme is called "Payback". I kid you not.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

[quote=rutankrd,reply=1]Good feed and connections with other OW carriers in German markets or elsewhere within Europe- Not really.

Could the lack of a large hub be blamed for this? i.e. could/will the situation change once BER opens?



CY@Uk
User currently offlinetwa@fra From China, joined Nov 2000, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

I would say the benefit of AB in OneWorld is not any HUB, but to have a local client base and choice for OW members in German to fly OW e.g. within Germany or certain Europe routes which before they couldn’t.
For example somebody based in DUS and is flying a few times a year to HAM/TXL/MUC and some intercontinental flights. If he want to give his business to one Alliance, there had been only Star in the past, but now OW become an option.


User currently offlineCaptainmeeerkat From Russia, joined Aug 2010, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

What are the chances that EY will start their own alliance in the near future - their strategy of late seems to imply so?

A good move in my opinion to try and compete with their bigger and more aggressive neighbour.



my luggage is better travelled than me!
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7588 times:

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 6):
Could the lack of a large hub be blamed for this? i.e. could/will the situation change once BER opens?

Not really. BER draws a lot of low yield traffic but rather little high yield. The location is remote.

DUS is a far better located hub with a much larger catchment area. But, whatever AB does, LH will spit into their spoup and going into bed with Etihad makes them even more an enemy to LH.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2964 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

Oh, well this is kinda disappointing. I was hoping that Topbonus would be incorporated into FlyingBlue...   


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
70% stake in its Topbonus frequent flyer program to Etihad for €184.4 million.

The high price paid for this small and relatively unimportant FF program is, in fact, an indirect cash injection by EY.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
AB will get also get 150 million euros in debt financing arranged by Etihad and provided by HSBC and Commerzbank.

EY is clearly very serious about trying to turn around AB. Now... how much longer will AB remain in OW?   

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
the carrier would now record a profit for 2012 erasing previously estimated €145 million loss for the year.

A "fake" financial profit as they will still have operating losses. But it will look nice on the annual report.

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 6):
could/will the situation change once BER opens?

BER is certainly a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for AB to be profitable.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

I think it will be interesting that if Air Berlin stays in OW, its FF'er program, database and commercial information will be primarily owned by an outsider, and one that is fierce competitor with new OW member QR.

I cant imagine QR would be too enthused to do business with AB if much of the info and earnings go back into its Gulf rival pockets.

But personally, I see EY having different ideas for AB that eventually don't include OW.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

...and in related news, EY and AB have extended their codeshare agreement to an additional 5 destinations in East Asia: CTU, PEK, PVG, NRT, NGO:

(in German):
http://www.airliners.de/management/m...d-etihad-bauen-codeshare-aus/28719


User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2167 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

Somewhere above it says that topbonus will be "merged into Etihad's own FFP". So Air Berlin will no longer have its "own" FFP? Use Etihad instead? So if I have Gold status on Etihad that will then also be my status on AB, and by extension also with other OW carriers? Too good to be true...

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

From what I read, Topbonus will now become the combined program used by Etihad - Air Berlin - Air Seychelles.

Sounds like Etihad also will work to develop broader program partnerships including additional airline members.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
From what I read, Topbonus will now become the combined program used by Etihad - Air Berlin - Air Seychelles.

Sounds like Etihad also will work to develop broader program partnerships including additional airline members.

Etihad is going into the loyalty program business.

Etihad Acquires Air Berlin's TopBonus Frequent Flyer Program

Quote:
...The deal is seen as the first step in the creation of a new global loyalty management company by Etihad.

...


User currently offlineushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2964 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting Mozart (Reply 14):
Somewhere above it says that topbonus will be "merged into Etihad's own FFP". So Air Berlin will no longer have its "own" FFP? Use Etihad instead? So if I have Gold status on Etihad that will then also be my status on AB, and by extension also with other OW carriers? Too good to be true...

Sounds more like a definitive and soon exit from OW.

This does kind annoy me though, since I just burned a lot of AB miles on intra-European flights, had I known that I could get on some EY flights soon, I would have held out. Oh well, that's life.

And since Air Seychelles will also be onboard, it looks like they might actually all join SkyTeam soon, since Air Seychelles has traditionally had very strong ties to Air France.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

Some board shakeups.

Niki Lauda is leaving the board of directors. He says he wants to devote more time to his Mercedes formula one team.
To replace him a former BMI executive will be brought onboard.


story:
http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/ar...-berlin-board-to-concentrate-on-f1

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 11):
A "fake" financial profit as they will still have operating losses. But it will look nice on the annual report.

Nothing fake about it. You sell an asset and realize the money as income. Just like if you held $10,000 dollars in stock and sold it, for $12,000. You would not say it was fake. You would report it as a $10,000 increase in income and $2,000 in capital gains, increasing your annualized profit from all sources as $12,000. This would be a one time only profit and you better get your house in order to maintain that profit so the share holders will still see the equity they have in the company as being a good hold.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 17):
Sounds more like a definitive and soon exit from OW.

I don´t think this alone necessitates an exit from OW.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Best Frequent Flyer Program For BOS Resident? posted Wed May 14 2008 20:44:01 by Osprey88
Airline Frequent Flyer Program Questions posted Sat Nov 24 2007 18:20:18 by Super80DFW
Frequent Flyer Program Spin-off posted Mon Oct 8 2007 17:46:35 by Charlipr
Frequent Flyer Program Spinoffs.... posted Sun Aug 12 2007 20:11:06 by Aircanada014
TAM Frequent Flyer Program Fidelidade posted Sun Jul 23 2006 16:29:27 by Glennpower
Egyptair Upgrade Frequent Flyer Program posted Fri Jun 30 2006 22:02:42 by Horus
EasyJet Frequent Flyer Program To Be Considered posted Fri Feb 3 2006 17:00:50 by RJ100
LX Frequent Flyer Program To Become Miles-And-More posted Mon Oct 10 2005 21:11:41 by Mpoellot
New Frequent Flyer Program Study posted Thu Jun 16 2005 01:57:12 by Alphascan
DBA Frequent Flyer Program, Any News? posted Mon Apr 18 2005 01:20:08 by Sabena332