VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7046 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 36738 times:
Quoting sciurusmdg (Thread starter): Specifically interested if it will be used to replace the 777-200s without First used down to Latin America?
Unlikely. As has already been stated BA have announced that they will replace their 763s and not any 772s with the 787s. This means they will almost certainly first enter service on one or more of the following long haul 763 destinations::
boeingorbust From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 35281 times:
Friend that works for BA in YYC said he heard rumors of LHR-YYC very soon after 787 deliveries start. Loads have been very strong with sold out flights almost daily. this would make a great strong route for the 787 with heavy loads to replace the 763 currently flying the route daily.
Ratypus From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 32469 times:
I think the 767 replacement refers to the long-haul 767s (used to Africa and a few other places) rather than to the European 767s configured with Club Europe rather than Club World...doubt we will be seeing any 787 in regular service within Europe
Geo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 514 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 31885 times:
Initially the 787 will replace those Longhaul configured 767s that are not having a cabin refresh. They will almost certainly fly to the exact same places that are currently served by Longhaul 767s as mentioned earlier.
As for shorthaul operation - it would only be for adhoc flights, much like the 777s and 747s sometimes do at the moment.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/7/8,B741/2/4,B752,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,1-11
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7046 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 31851 times:
Quoting VCy (Reply 14): Will they fly any short haul routes?
Quoting Rara (Reply 15): If they replace the 767 one-to-one, they will. BA still operates the 767 into, say, FRA and CDG.
The current announced plans show sixteen 787s delivered by end 2015 and thirteen out of fourteen long haul 763s retired by the same date. So it looks like an almost one-for-one replacement. See Chart 17 here:
In this chart the seven short haul configured 763s are still in service and are hidden in the "Short haul - Other" numbers. However it is likely that some short haul routes will be flown very early in the life of BA;s 787s to maximise the number of rotations during flight crew training.
So current published plans are for BA to operate their short-haul 767 fleet at least into 2016. Here it is worth noting that these aircraft are currently being refurbished. Four aircraft are back in service after refurbishment, one is currently undergoing refurbishment and three are still flying with their old cabins awaiting their new cabins.
It is also worth noting that the BA short haul fleet includes the two oldest 763s in BA;s fleet but, more relevantly, five of their six youngest aircraft:
G-BNWA delivered May '89. 50,811 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BNWB delivered Nov '89. 49,541 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BNWX delivered Mar '94. 47,948 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BNWZ delivered Feb '97. 36,070 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BZHA delivered May '98. 34.330 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BZHB delivered May '98. 34.133 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
G-BZHC delivered Jun '98. 34.951 hrs as at 31 Dec 2011
So four are still relatively young. Further being amongst the very few RR powered 763s, their market value is probably low particularly when compared to their operational value. But the final fate of QF's RR 763, VH-ZXB, (formerly G-BNWF with BA) that they retired on 1 December and is now parked at ROW might give further clues.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2582 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 31221 times:
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 7): PDX-LHR has been rumored for some time. Hopefully it becomes a reality.
I always love your pro-PDX posts, I'd be way happy to see BA at PDX, but with up to 2x daily 744 or 777 to SEA, and a great connection partnership with AS, I doubt BA will look at PDX for a while longer. I have heard the rumor too, but if BA had wanted to come here, they would have tried a 767 at some point, or as a tag from YVR or SEA. I think LH's departure shows that PDX is just not big enough to keep multiple daily Europe flights, too bad as well, PDX is an awesome facility.
If this ULH route ever happens, I'd expect HA with their A350's or VS with whatever they get next with ULH capacity. The thought is ULH leisure routes do not work well, even with a lower fuel burn, they still would be hard to remain profitable.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3329 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 30119 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 19): The current announced plans show sixteen 787s delivered by end 2015 and thirteen out of fourteen long haul 763s retired by the same date. So it looks like an almost one-for-one replacement. See Chart 17 here:
This plan is notable for two things, firstly the 2015 figures for the 747 and 767 have a box round them mentioning operational flexibility, in simple terms some could have their life extended if the market picks up and slots are available.
the other thing is that this was a November 2011 presentation just before the possibility of buying BMI, this probably makes quite a difference, one aspect being that BA now operate more A320 series planes in 2012 than the projection for 2015 !
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7046 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 27073 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 22): This plan is notable for two things, firstly the 2015 figures for the 747 and 767 have a box round them mentioning operational flexibility, in simple terms some could have their life extended if the market picks up and slots are available.
It also means that some could have their life shortened if the market fails to meet expectations by implementing early retirements.
This is the sort of flexibility that is required when forecasting the overall economic situation four years out is so very, very difficult. It is not therefore surprising that the presentation also additionally says on Chart 18:
"Further flexibility possible with contractual ability to defer new deliveries"
On this chart it also presents the median forecast position together with both optimistic and pessimistic forecasts for the combined BA and IB fleet growth, Here it shows a base line "fleet growth" of around 14 per cent, This does not jibe with the base line aircraft fleet growth of 8 per cent shown on Chart 17. This may be because the "fleet growth" figure could be passenger seats and not aircraft numbers.
Chart 18 also shows an optimistic growth scenario of about 31 per cent and a pessimistic contraction of 12 per cent. I take this to mean that looking forward IAG has the flexibility to cope with anything between a 31 per cent growth and a 12 per cent decline in business (presumably excluding the impact of BD) over the period from the fourth quarter of 2011 to the end of 2015. So the box around the 747 and 767 (and the IB A330/340) aircraft needs to be viewed with this in mind and the possibility of early and postponed retirements, lease extensions and deferral of new aircraft deliveries.
25 brilondon: So we should expect the 787 in to YYZ maybe? I don't see it going to YVR as the 747 is usually quite full when I fly it to London. Not a big fan of BA
26 flyyul: The 787 will go where BA doesn't offer F on some or all flights: So candidates are : Denver San Diego Montreal Calgary Toronto Baltimore Newark Rio Bu