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SQ Publishes A345 SIN-LAX/EWR Nonstop End Dates  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24878 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15578 times:

Singapore Airlines previously stated they intend to discontinue their nonstop A340-500 service to LAX and EWR in 2013.
( SQ To End LAX/EWR-SIN Nonstop Flights (by sfoa380 Oct 24 2012 in Civil Aviation) )

Now per GDS, SQ has loaded updated schedules which includes termination dates for the nonstop routes.

SIN-LAX comes to an end on October 21, 2013, while SIN-EWR ends November 24, 2013.
Additionally SQ seems to be reducing frequency to EWR to 4x weekly (Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat) as well.

As of now there is no additional replacement service loaded for either LAX or NYC, which would mean SQ reducing its frequency to each metro area to a single daily flight.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2165 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15362 times:

Interesting. I really want to take this flight (ewr-sin) before it ends. what are the avg. fares (i know they won't be pretty)


next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3389 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15220 times:

Why so far out?

If the route is unprofitable, why fly it for the next 11 months?


User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15173 times:

They are trading in the A345's for their A380's. That is the stated reason for dropping these routes. If it was just economics the routes would be gone sooner.

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15162 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):
Why so far out?

If the route is unprofitable, why fly it for the next 11 months?

Just a guess, but maybe those dates coincide with when the A345s are leaving the fleet?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15115 times:

Wonder why SQ announced the end of those routes so far in advance? Would seem to make more sense to wait until a couple of months before service ends. And announcing the end of a route with no fixed date just discourages further bookings as potential customers have no idea whether the flights are going to operate. Best not to say anything until close to the end date. On business-oriented routes like those I doubt the average advance booking period is more than a month anyway.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2165 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15058 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
Just a guess, but maybe those dates coincide with when the A345s are leaving the fleet?

Yup, that's exactly the reason why. SQ has worked out a deal with Airbus in that they will receive 5 A380s and 20 A350s through 2017, and in return, Airbus will "re-acquire" the 5 A345s that are leaving the fleet.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):

Wonder why SQ announced the end of those routes so far in advance? Would seem to make more sense to wait until a couple of months before service ends. And announcing the end of a route with no fixed date just discourages further bookings as potential customers have no idea whether the flights are going to operate. Best not to say anything until close to the end date. On business-oriented routes like those I doubt the average advance booking period is more than a month anyway.

I think you just answered your own question. If the booking cycle is relatively short-term, then it places less importance on announcing the actual end dates because the traveler can pivot their itinerary planning to choose an alternate route.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8287 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14935 times:
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Let the enthusiats who want to fly it do it. If Fuel stays cheap they could make a profit on these flights in the next year.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14830 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Let the enthusiats who want to fly it do it. If Fuel stays cheap they could make a profit on these flights in the next year.

Nothing is stopping you from booking a flight in the next 11 months. SQ is not a charity.

[Edited 2012-12-20 11:55:30]

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17053 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14814 times:

I sense a high end A.net meet on 11/24 next year  


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14767 times:
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I think the marked advance notice for the discontinuing of these routes also has to do with those who are very loyal to SQ's premium service on these two VLH routes. Perhaps it's a way for them to keep these J cabin customers in the end instead of them changing to CX, KE, BR and etc...

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14760 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
If Fuel stays cheap they could make a profit on these flights in the next year.

I think your definition of "cheap" is a little different than SQ's definition of cheap.  


User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14722 times:

SQ21 & SQ22
Total:
USD 8,025.86

(Includes taxes and surcharges)

per http://www.singaporeair.com/



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8507 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14645 times:
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Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
I really want to take this flight (ewr-sin) before it ends.

- Indeed I would like to.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
what are the avg. fares (i know they won't be pretty)

- Nope, they won't be  



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14562 times:

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 12):
SQ21 & SQ22
Total:
USD 8,025.86

(Includes taxes and surcharges)

And that highlights why SQ is ending these flights. I just search a flight between EWR-SIN and got a price of $10,275.86. On the exact same dates Emirates' JFK-DXB flight is $11037.70 (in business class obviously so the comparison is fair). On a flight that is 2300 nm shorter. Hell BA's EWR-LHR flight in business class is about half SQ's, $5,001.45 while being 5000 nm shorter.

It is a wonder that SQ's EWR flights have stuck around for this long.


User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3392 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14462 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
And that highlights why SQ is ending these flights. I just search a flight between EWR-SIN and got a price of $10,275.86. On the exact same dates Emirates' JFK-DXB flight is $11037.70 (in business class obviously so the comparison is fair). On a flight that is 2300 nm shorter. Hell BA's EWR-LHR flight in business class is about half SQ's, $5,001.45 while being 5000 nm shorter.

It is a wonder that SQ's EWR flights have stuck around for this long.

I am not sure why you are comparing SQs EWR-SIN flt to other random flts. Also the SQ flts are Premium only. On another thread I believe someone posted that both of these flts were routinely getting 65-75 paxs (65-75% LF). And SQ likely did not offer deep discounts just to fill the aircraft, maybe some Corp contracts. So that is 65-75 people paying at least $8k. That is around $500k per flight.

When I did a random search I saw EWR-SIN priced around $8-9k
For the same dates UA EWR-SIN (with a connection obviously) in BusinessFirst the fare was only marginally less, at the time it was less than $1k cheaper. If you have the means to do either you'd be a fool to take UA.


The poor economics of flying these routes with the A345 is likely why they are ending.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14387 times:

Too bad we can't non-rev on these flights.   


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14346 times:

I had the opportunity to fly this route once in Raffles Class on the spacebed seat in 2005. The EWR-SIN flight is great. 11pm departure is good since you can eat, stay up late, then get 10 hours of sleep, wake up, enjoy a leisurely breakfast and are ready to go in SIN. It was fairly good to beat the jetlag. The SIN-EWR flight was horrible. You are awake for the first half of the flight, but inevitably fall asleep after 9 hours on a plane and realizing you are only halfway to your destination. You wake up, have breakfast, just in time for it to get dark and night to fall in New York, which means a sleepless night. The jetlag is horrible.

The EWR-SIN route doesn’t provide any useful connecting opportunities since there are few high yielding places to connect to from SIN after flying all the way from EWR. Indonesia & Malaysia don’t have high yielding traffic and the timing is bad for India connections. It’s all O/D and the market isn’t big enough.

SQ advertises that they serve 6 destinations nonstop from the US. ICN, NRT, FRA, DME, HKG, & SIN. Soon SIN will be ending.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 14161 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 15):
I am not sure why you are comparing SQs EWR-SIN flt to other random flts. Also the SQ flts are Premium only. On another thread I believe someone posted that both of these flts were routinely getting 65-75 paxs (65-75% LF). And SQ likely did not offer deep discounts just to fill the aircraft, maybe some Corp contracts. So that is 65-75 people paying at least $8k. That is around $500k per flight.

I was pointing out how these flights are not making hand over fist in money. Yes they are all business class. But despite their incredibly long length they are not able to extract a huge premium for their seats on the flight.The Emirates flight that I pointed out is shorter and currently has a higher J fare than SQ's flight. And it is not like business space is limited- they have 75 J seats + 14 F class + hundreds of Y seats (which, while not has high yielding as premium cabins, still make airlines money) + likely more cargo.


User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13790 times:

I wonder who Airbus will try and offload the A340-500's too, there does not seem to be much of a demand for them. I seem to remember Thai trying to offload their 500's a while ago, but unseccessfully

User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13749 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
And that highlights why SQ is ending these flights. I just search a flight between EWR-SIN and got a price of $10,275.86. On the exact same dates Emirates' JFK-DXB flight is $11037.70 (in business class obviously so the comparison is fair). On a flight that is 2300 nm shorter. Hell BA's EWR-LHR flight in business class is about half SQ's, $5,001.45 while being 5000 nm shorter.

It is a wonder that SQ's EWR flights have stuck around for this long

Look at EWR to PER. It's $12k or so. Or go on QF over LAX for $16k. It's a real steal on SQ at 25% off. Not sure about other onward destinations.


User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13466 times:
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As one who has taken LAX-SIN both ways about five times in the past year on the A345's, I really hate to see these flights go away. I have also taken the one-stop flights, stopping in NRT and HKG, and they both seem much longer.


Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineordwaw From United States of America, joined May 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12465 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 18):

I still do not get why you compare SQ EWR-SIN with EK JFK-DXB in J. As others have indicated already, you are comparing apples to oranges, airliners are not city cabs and do not charge by the mile.

The SQ flight is mostly O&D while EK is focused on connecting flights.

Following your logic, please explain, why looking at a random set of dates in February and r/t flights EY JFK-DXB is USD 11k, whilst if you tag on a seven hour flight to make it EY JFK-DXB-SIN the price drops to less than USD 8k, which is also a few hundred less than the nonstop SQ EWR-SIN on these same dates.

Sorry, I meant EK when writing EY above ... All about Emirates ...

[Edited 2012-12-20 17:43:45]

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12223 times:
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Glad there's almost a year left. I actually enjoy these flights. I can probably catch three or four until they're gone for good.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Wonder why SQ announced the end of those routes so far in advance?

They didn't have much of a choice. Once they announced the deal with Airbus regarding the "re-purchase" of the A435s, questions would inevitably have been asked as to the future of these two flights. What was Singapore Airlines supposed to tell its customers? Sit tight and wait? Best to announce the flights will be cancelled, even if the exact date is to be announced later. At least customers know it isn't going to happen overnight.

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
And that highlights why SQ is ending these flights.

If I had to guess as to why they're ending these flights, I would suggest that the flights are profitable, but marginally so, and that the aircraft are coming due for heavy maintenance too expensive for the tiny profits. If the flights were not profitable, they would have ended a long time ago, Singapore Airlines doesn't keep routes out of charity or prestige.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 15):
And SQ likely did not offer deep discounts just to fill the aircraft, maybe some Corp contracts.

No, they don't. I guess they know their target audience and the price remains pretty stable whether you book two days or two months in advance, unlike other carriers. Corporate discounts are also smaller than on other Singapore Airlines flights (at least ours is).

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 17):
The SIN-EWR flight was horrible. You are awake for the first half of the flight, but inevitably fall asleep after 9 hours on a plane and realizing you are only halfway to your destination.

The key is to have a short night before leaving. Find someone to have a very long dinner with, go out for a night on the town or catch a movie or two... Sleep a few hours, then off to the airport. Take a long nap after take-off to catch up on your sleep, stay awake for the rest of the flight and you'll walk off the plane in EWR ready to go to bed.

Or do like a colleague of mine who really can't get used to it, and find an excuse to continue your trip West-bound. Whenever he goes to Singapore, he has a very good reason to go to London or Paris next...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 17):
The EWR-SIN route doesn’t provide any useful connecting opportunities since there are few high yielding places to connect to from SIN after flying all the way from EWR. Indonesia & Malaysia don’t have high yielding traffic and the timing is bad for India connections. It’s all O/D and the market isn’t big enough.

I have connected to the SQ223 service to PER (departing about 4 hours after arrival). I was also informed this route gets alot of Chinese connecting pax who prefer to backtrack to Singapore for the exceptional service.

So devastating to see these services go. Flown the ULH flights 4 times, all 4 are in my Top 5 flights of all time.


25 RayChuang : I wonder will improve the amenities on the A380 F and J class on the LAX-NRT-SIN and JFK-FRA-SIN routes to compensate for the loss of these ULH flight
26 laca773 : This has a lot to do with the market demand, duration of the flight,and as several other's have pointed out, it's capacity of 100J, is a very specifi
27 jfk777 : Who said SIA was a charity ? Not me, SIA is a profit making entity. Cheap from EWR to SIn would be $ 5999.00 USD. There is nothing "cheap" about SIA,
28 lightsaber : I wish it was in my budget... But CASM goes up with length. So what was pointed out is the EWR-SIN RASM is too poor to support such a route. The othe
29 ordwaw : I agree the CASM goes up with length, however, what I do not follow is how EK JFK-DXB example 'points out' that EWR-SIN RASM is too poor to support s
30 coolfish1103 : Now it's time to wonder if SQ will add a second flight to SIN-NRT-LAX v.v. or will they start another flight somewhere else? Not too sure if a 388 is
31 qf002 : Probably, otherwise they wouldn't have lasted so long. The key issue here though is potential profitability. A passenger who will currently fly on th
32 infinit : I guess the ultimate reason for the cancellation is the end of the A340 programme. If it were profittability, SQ would have canned them since SQ is hi
33 B747forever : Same here. l have always wanted to fly this route, but unfortunately there is no way that I can afford the price.
34 goldenargosy : Shame. At least I got a chance to fly the EWR service 3 times back when they had Y cabin. A great experience to be in the air for so long. Once this r
35 ordwaw : IMO ... by distance QF 7 , SYD-DFW , 8,578 miles on a 744ER by time DL 201 , JNB-ATL , 16 hrs 55 minutes on a 77L
36 maxamuus : You can't non-rev on these flights?
37 fun2fly : Would a 787 be able to do the route?
38 Post contains images IrishAyes : Oh sweet Lord. Yeah, unless a Christmas miracle happens within the next 12 months, this ain't happenin for IrishAyes Maybe I could splurge for a One-
39 LAXintl : I recall reading last year, someone at SQ said that when these flights were conceived, a barrel of fuel was just $35. Now its essentially 3x that. Per
40 readytotaxi : When it goes, who will pick up the title of "World's longest commercial non-stop flight"
41 B747forever : Already answered in the thread.
42 Post contains images readytotaxi : Missed it, damn that glass of Chablis.
43 Post contains images B747forever : It is Friday evening
44 CXB77L : Considering that none of the 787 family have as much range as the A340-500, I wouldn't think so.
45 rwy04lga : Delta has no leisure travel agreement with SG.
46 Viscount724 : But only in one direction. Westbound it's DFW-BNE-SYD. DL's ATL-JNB-ATL is currently the next longest by distance, after the SQ routes, that's nonsto
47 qf002 : It'll be nonstop in both directions as soon as QF has the aircraft to do it. That's still a few years off though, unfortunately.
48 B747forever : Doesnt really matter, whether the flight is flown as a round trip or only one way. The longest flight still is SYD-DFW.
49 gigneil : They're a couple percent more efficient. Not enough to help such a long flight. NS
50 qf002 : And not enough to offset the enormous cost of acquiring the aircraft and getting rid of the A345s.
51 n515cr : Very glad I was able to snag SIN-LAX in march before they end the route!
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