Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Is AS Warming More To DL And SkyTeam As A Whole?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

I want to make an observation and ask a few questions. It's my thought that AS is warming ever closer to DL/SkyTeam. Yes they still have close ties with many OW carriers like AA, BA, QF, CX but when I was booking a flight on Sabre the other day SJC-SEA I of course saw AS/DL flights. These DL Codeshares used to be AS/AA. Has bankruptcy for AA changed their relationship with AS? I found the AA flights but I had to specifically ask for them. Also, AS is doing more and more with AM. Yes they've had reciprocal practices for some time now, but again seems to be getting passed the dating stage and embarking on more of an intimate relationship. Rumors have always swirled if AS was going to be eaten up by AA, DL (or then NW). How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose? If they fail to chose can we a forceable taking like that of US/AA (should that happen)? I personally think AS/QX being absorbed into DL would be great. PDX and ANC would be large focus cities and SEA would be the crown fortress--and complimenting their current hub/spoke system quite nicely. Having said that, if AS was absorbed by DL, I think it would be then end of the point-to-point service that AS is becoming known for and making quite a name for itself because of. Any thoughts?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6611 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

AS is in a unique position relative to most other U.S. carriers. They have a solid profit history, they don't grow too fast and they have various agreements with several carriers. I don't see pressure on them to change the current arrangements.

Everyone these days seems to think airlines "MUST" go with one alliance or the other. In the case of AS, they consistently buck the trends. I see them continue to do so going forward.


User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
Everyone these days seems to think airlines "MUST" go with one alliance or the other. In the case of AS, they consistently buck the trends. I see them continue to do so going forward.

True enough, but there is high potential for changes in the AS/AA relationship if US and AA merge. It could even change to a deeper relationship after a merger should US lose their codesharing arrangements with UA.

David


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting diverdave (Reply 3):
It could even change to a deeper relationship after a merger should US lose their codesharing arrangements with UA.

Good point. AA and US are both weak in the northwest US, where AS is strongest. US currently relies on UA to serve a lot of that area via DEN and SFO, and AA's profile is even lower.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

AS is happy to march to its own drum. Why is it everyone and there brother wants to sign them up to an alliance when so far that have not needed one.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Agreed. Almost every month or so there's a thread about who AS will merge with (or even worse, be taken over by) or which alliance they "must" be ready to join.

AS is doing a beautiful job of being a profitable, successful, well-liked airline. They have agreements of various kinds with many cx that seem to be working well for all involved.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

bb


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5627 times:

AA is still code sharing on these flights.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Why join an alliance when "codeshare-whoring" is working very well for them?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5412 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinejet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.

Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 9):
Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.

Check out how many codeshares AS has and how much money they are each worth to AS and work from there. That should be a given.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

I see AS/QX role primarily as a feeder airline for international flights to to all other carriers in PDX, SEA, ORD, DFW, BOS, MIA, LAX, SFO, SAN, PHX, LAS--some of those cities are traditional vacation spots in FL, HI and MX that are a given. This could be the framework that keeps them a loft accept for the captive audience for the intra-AK flights. I guess if they keep their very unique structure, they can really waive their middle finger at the big boys. I don't know for how long though. The original Frontier, Mark Air, Western Pacific, Western, PSA, AirCal, Continental Lite, RenoAir have all been major players on the west cost, alaska and mexico and still was absorbed by the big sharks. aside from the intra-AK flights, AS route system seems to be getting closer and closer to that of WA as a the largest west coast super regional carrier, with an obvious hub difference of SLC vs SEA. WA was huge in PACNW as AS just using different connecting cities.

User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5165 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

AS works just fine the way it is and I suspect they are happy with the way it works. They do not need an alliance any more than WN does.


Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5143 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 9):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.
Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.

Which part, about AS resisting taking sides between DL and AA, or those two needing AS more than AS needs them?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinejet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
, or those two needing AS more than AS needs th
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
, or those two needing AS more than AS needs th

That bit. Delta i can see benefits from feed at seattle. Maybe you have more in mind. AA nothing comes to mind right now.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Of course there is this thread that recently appeared on A.net:
Delta Adding LAX-SEA (by Deltal1011man Dec 20 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Might this affect this topic as well?

bb


User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
Which part, about AS resisting taking sides between DL and AA, or those two needing AS more than AS needs them?

Some parts of the partnership with Delta are just a tad deeper, with reciprocal upgrade benefits for elites. The reciprocal lounge benefits are a bit better for Delta, as Delta members get into Alaska lounges with either a Delta or Alaska ticket. Oddly enough, Admiral's Club members only get into an Alaska lounge with an AA ticket on an AA operated flight.

I would certainly assess that Delta needs AS more than AA needs AS at this time. But again, if US and AA merge, the combined airline would need the West Coast coverage of AS to make up for the (speculated on my part) loss of the code shares with UA.

David


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4777 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 14):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):, or those two needing AS more than AS needs thQuoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):, or those two needing AS more than AS needs th
That bit. Delta i can see benefits from feed at seattle. Maybe you have more in mind. AA nothing comes to mind right now.

DL benefits from feed at SEA, AA benefits from feed at LAX (and so does DL, but to a far lesser degree), and AS can grow organically outside the West Coast whereas it would be much more difficult and costly for AA and DL to get the same degree of growth on the West Coast that AS currently provides via the codeshare.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

[quote=jet-lagged,reply=14]AA nothing comes to mind right now.


Well it benefits AA in several ways, one of which was mentioned; e.g. feed at LAX. It also helps cover a hole in the AA network on the west coast, allowing codeshare to destinations AA can't/won't share (Pacific Northwest and Alaska) and award redemption for elites.



Next
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7799 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Didn't AA just pass something that allows more codeshare with AA at LAX? I see AA/AS becoming big at LAX, maybe not as big as DL/AS at SEA, but big enough that AS wouldn't want to give it up.

Plus, I think AS giving up on codesharing with AA would throw away a lot of anti-merger insurance...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
Plus, I think AS giving up on codesharing with AA would throw away a lot of anti-merger insurance...

Exactly. If AS wants to stay independent, and I believe they do, the smartest thing they have done is maintain strong code share relationships with key members of both Sky Team (DL, AF, KL, KE) and One World (AA, LA, QF, BA).

Did anyone read the article in this month's Trains magazine about Kansas City Southern? It draws strikingly interesting parallels with AS. The author was talking about how KCS has remained independent in the face of huge railroad mergers, and he talks about how KCS has managed to do so. Read the article. You'll almost feel like AS and KCS have gone down the same paths.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes posted Thu Oct 2 2008 17:45:19 by Centrair
Pluna To Fly More To Spain And Brazil? posted Tue Nov 15 2005 22:45:41 by LipeGIG
AA's Planned LAX-Tokyo Service Up To DL And CO posted Wed Jun 5 2002 00:15:14 by ORD
DL Dedicates 757 To Servicemen And Women posted Fri Nov 9 2012 13:19:05 by B757forever
New DL And US Seasonal Service Coming To EYW posted Sun Nov 4 2012 20:48:28 by JBAirwaysFan
EK Wants To Use BOO As Emergency Airport posted Wed Jun 27 2012 11:27:37 by Mortyman
Corsairfly.com Due To Re-brand As Corsair Int'l posted Mon Apr 2 2012 04:58:31 by Owleye
Whats Up With DL And QF Flights To HNL posted Sun Jan 9 2011 09:00:34 by DTWAGENT
DL 788 Order - Convert To 772LR And Add On 789? posted Thu Oct 14 2010 13:01:46 by 1337Delta764
AeroLanka To Resume Ops As Lankan Cargo posted Fri Aug 27 2010 06:02:00 by KFlyer